JPF Home Page Forums Post QUESTIONS or COMMENTS here!

I'm another one who hit the submit button by mistake before I reviewed my lyric entry. So, can we get an edit on a spelling error now that all numbers are assigned?
Mary

You are very welcome, Pramod, and I apologize for the typing error on your name. Enjoy the lyrical journey. Jeannette

Hi Folks,

Email either Ozone Pete or Blake Hill and have them help you with your edits. I am really jammed for time on the road and can't help. One of the two should be able to fix you up. Be sure to give them the page and lyric number and the exact edits you need.

Thanks,

Brian

Shanny,

Tell me what you need edited and I'll take care of it for you.

Hey Folks,
Sorry i've been plaguing you with so many of my posts of late, but i simply had to say something here:

I wanted yall to know that Jean and I have had a very interesting conversation offline, and we are now really good friends! (Just putting the record straight, in case anyone was wondering what was up). I am not ashamed or afraid of saying this, but settling differences is oh so easy when you have something in common with the other party - as for the two of us, we have Jesus. Thanks, everyone, for putting up with me....

I've narrowed my list down, and i am almost ready to post in my vote. Looks like the lyrics i've chosen are the most outrageously silly but delightfully appealing ones. I guess that's the only thing that works on me now after reading 535 entries!

C ya!
Pramod

Brian,
I can't seem to access the lyric award voting site. I go to votes@jpfolks.com and end up on your home page. I tried searches but they don't work. Help!!!!!!!
Joel Aronowitz

Joel. That's an email address. You just need to write an email to that address and put your choices in the email.
sonny

Well, I just finished reading all the lyrics and hats off to everyone who entered. At the end I had 32 starred lyrics and 176 honorable mentions. Of those 176 I have narrowed that list down to 36 simply because they were memorable enough to deserve a second look. So, I have 68 lyrics to reread...but not today. At a certain point my brain and heart refuse to be moved by anything I read and it simply looks like, "blah, blah, blah" to me. This gives good insight into what music industry folks go through. I also had the song "Hard Times" earmarked and I still remember what it was about. Sorry to see it did not remain in the contest for whatever reason.
Thanks to those maintaining this board.

Vondelle

Vondelle,

I am not sure what you are referring to. The only case where a song was delete (and this was very very early on) was when the same writer had posted more than 1 and asked us to delete it. My guess is either the lyric you are referring to is still there (and you are missing it) or it was one of the 2 lyrics we actually deleted by request of the writer for the reason posted above. And that was in the first week of entries.

Brian

Just an update note:

We've had about 50 people vote so far and there are now clearly a few lyrics separating from the pack, even this early. Keep in mind, everyone who is a Just Plain Folks member is welcome and encouraged to vote for their 5 favorite lyrics per the guidelines posted on this forum.

Keep reading!

Brian

Hi Brian and everybody. The lyric in question as missing was Hard Times by G T Shades, who used to be on the lyric board. I had it marked as about 1/10 of the way down page 5. (that was before they were numbered)
I skimmed all the lyrics again, but if it's there or if G. T. is there. I couldn't see it. Don't know

Hi, Brian.

There was one other person who could not locate that song so perhaps it was someone's second song. I will go through it all just to check. MAYBE they deleted and resubmitted.
Just saw Wyman's post. I guess the song must be gone
Thanks.

Vondelle


[This message has been edited by Vondelle (edited 09-12-2002).]

Hi, Brian, yes, I was looking for Hard Times, GT Shades again after the numbering started and couldn't find it. Unfortunately, I have already voted for my top 5. Not sure where it would have ranked in the final lot I chose from. However, could be it was a double post. Just curious anyway, something made it stick in my mind. Jeannette

It's really interesting about the lyric "Hard Times." I guess I'll be the fourth person to say that I had marked that one as a contender early on but could not find it again later. (Thought it was just me!) Hope that doesn't turn out to be a missed opportunity for Mr. Shades.

My votes are in and I am at peace with myself...I think. I had no trouble narrowing my choices down to about 32 in the beginning. Of those, about 12 received a star (*) indicating they were top notch, IMO. Beyond that, it got real tough. Numbers 1 and 2 were still pretty easy for me, but 3, 4 and 5 came down to a toss of the coin almost.

To further aggravate the issue of whether or not everyone's standing should be publicized, I wonder if maybe the top 10 or 20 lyrics could be listed, if for no other reason than to see if other members voted along the same lines. That shouldn't embarrass or humiliate anyone.

Brian, thanks for...well dammit, EVERYTHING.

Greg

Hello Fellow-Songwriters. Well, I did it. I voted and I am still feeling really bad about the three I did not get to include in my votes. In fact, I was so frazzled getting my 12 picks down to 8,I picked a winner and seven tied. I did the unthinkable cowardly trick of picking the last four out of a hat. No, I did not pick mine for first. I wish I could tell the three writers that lost my raffle how much I liked their lyric. Now, after my votes are in I am still crying over one very special lyric that was, and still is, very memorable to me. It is still in the bottom of my hat with the other two wonderful entries, IMHO. I also had Hard Times in my 12 but, not in the eight, so I guess it would not have gotten my vote, even though I did favor it as one of my first draft picks. I really hope someone else liked the three I had to eliminate enough to choose them. Anyways, People! This has been a rewarding experience for us all and win or lose, just to be associated with such a fine bunch of songwriters is a win/win deal. Thanks to Brian and all those who worked so hard to make this contest free and easy to enter. The judging has been a tough job, but, also, a fine chance to read some excellent writing. I Hereby Give everybody 5 points for entering! Good luck to All. Idamarie

How about when this is all over, someone start a thread on who they voted for and why. I think it would make for some great fun.

Well I tried to post this earler, but it hasn't showed up yet.
I think it would be a cool idea if after all this is over, that someone start a thread about who they voted for, and why.
Just a Thought

Hey Everyone,

For those who are interested, I emailed my votes today. After reading through all of the lyrics once, I had a list of 14 which I then narrowed down to 7. Out of that 7 I surprised myself and voted for one lyric in which I had some issues with the content. I didn't agree with everything the writer was saying. But, the lyric did move me and I even remembered it weeks after my initial reading of it. All of the lyrics I voted for, except one, were about very heartwarming things. I guess that is what touches me the most. I think in these lyrics I could sense the honesty and intensity of the feelings the writer felt and that to me makes a great lyric! One of the lyrics was just so funny. I found myself telling people about it. That is also a way that I measured if the lyric touched me or not. I told another person about a different lyric that I ended up voting for.

On a different note (no pun intended! )It would be so interesting to see how great a song these lyrics made though wouldn't it? I wonder how many of the lyrics entered in this contest already have music written for them, and how many do not. In fact, I wonder if I could guess a few that do not based on the fact that the meter just seems impossible to write a melody to. Did anyone think the same thing? Who knows though, looks can be deceiving!

Marla



[This message has been edited by Marla (edited 09-13-2002).]

IT IS FINISHED! Man, that took a week and a half to go through all these. Had 29 marked for rereads and starred the ones i really liked as I went......got lucky, cause when I was done I had FIVE starred! The HARD part is picking the ORDER! But this was alot of fun and definitely gives me an appreciation of what publishers must feel like going through all the songs they get; and that's probably 10x harder.
Thanks again for stringing this together Brian.

I am dying of female curiosity to see whether I picked out the winners or whether my votes were completely outcast!
It will be interesting to see if at least we all agreed on the top 3 or one of the top 5!
That way we get an understanding of which song has market potential and also we get an inkling of how publishers choose one song over another it means it is a winner! So when do we get to find out?!?!
This is indeed an interesting exercise!
Ingrid

Hi Folks,

Our plan is to announce nominees on the same day we announce the rest of the nominees. Most likely late October. Winners will be announced on Jan 18th in Los Angeles at the music awards.

So far, we are still only at 50 votes in. I know most folks assumed that at least all the entrants would vote, but it appears that we'll be stretching it to have 150 votes by the deadline at this pace. That isn't neccessarily bad, as I am happy that folks didn't just randomly vote without reading. Getting anyone to really read and judge 530+ lyrics is no small task. If we break 100 votes, that should give us a really good cross section for the nominees.

As expected, a small number of songs have risen to the top already, but with only 50 judges in, it could easily change.

Stay tuned,

Brian

Hey Brian,

How do we know if JPF received our votes? You said we were still at fifty votes and I know I voted last night.

Just curious

Thanks

JD,

We'll send an email out to all the folks who voted as a confirmation in one big email. (i.e. if you are reading this, we got your votes type of thing.) I am on the Road until after the deadline, but I am sure we can do that late in the month. If we haven't hit 100 votes (sort of my minimum desired number) I may extend judging for another 10 days to give more evaluation time. We want to do this right. If, on the other hand, we pass 100 votes by the end of Sept, then I will cut it off as planned.

Brian

Well, my votes are in, and a lot sooner than I expected. Two songs stuck with me from the first time I read them, and I then found myself looking for the same qualities for the other three songs. Yet, I found I liked lyrics with a range of styles and subjects and one lyric that was definitely unconventional. Yes, a very interesting experience.

I want to thank everybody who has worked so hard putting this lyric contest together - particularly Brian. I'm sure it has been a big job! It was a big enough job just going through all of the lyrics to be able to vote, but it was a terrific experience! I learned some things, had some fun, got to ponder some interesting lyrics and topics, and, hopefully, all of that will help me to be a better lyricist and songwriter. A large number of the lyrics were very good, but about 12 stood out for me and my biggest struggle was when I got down to about 7 of them. Thanks again for this opportunity.

Hi Brian and everyone involved in organizing this lyric contest.

My votes are now in and I must say that I'm thourougly impressed by the wealth of talent on display and have enjoyed it a lot reading through the lyrics. How do I know if you received my email with my votes?
On another note, if you wonderful people have the enegy to organize another lyric contest in the future, the problem by voting for yourself can be easily solved by having it as a rule that everyone votes for themselves as no 1 and get 6pts and then the following 5 votes gets 5, 4, 3, 2 & 1pt. If the voter votes for fewer than 6 lyrics then his/her's vote won't count and the lesser vote of votes given gets 1 point, and then increases by 1 pt upwards for each vote given.
I think this would be a fair and will take into account that: "what moves us and objectivity" is extremely difficult at the best of times and with regard to our own work, subjectivity rules and it always moves us.
Just thoughts
Jan

Well, I was down to about 50 after the first cut, and now have 22 left. Whew! Picking the top five is going to be tough.

For the record, I think the next time no one should be allowed to for for themselves, and postings should be anonymous. I don't think the way things stand presents any fatal flaws, but I think it would be better with those two conditions.

I think the criterion that weighed most heavily with me was originality. But poorly crafted songs, no matter how clever, didn't make the cut.

There were a lot of songs in the throw-away pile that were good, well-crafted songs. I think some of them could be hits. They just didn't grab me personally enough to stay in the running. I was surprised, in fact, at how few really bad songs there were.

There were several things that tended to turn me off: songs written in all caps, obscenity and obscene songs, propaganda songs, misspelled words, "cu" instead of "see you," and songs I couldn't figure out.

Nevertheless, some of the songs that made my first song did so in spite of such turn-offs.

I guess the thing I was looking for, the thing that I'm always looking for in songwriting, is that song that leaves you thinking, in the words of Rilke, "You must change your life."

But then, a few of the songs still in the running are just clever, funny, or hooky.

Now I have to let it simmer for a few days.

I would like to weigh in as one who would truly like to see where my lyric entry ended up, regardless of how well or poorly I did, which makes very little difference. to me. Is it possible to seek this information privately as Brian does not want to put in on the forum publicly. Could it perhaps be emailed to those of us who would truly like to have this information? Don't you just love thinking up ways to make extra work for someone else Thank you Brian for this opportunity and for everything else at JPF.

Warren

Based on the feedback here and my personal experience, it's a long and difficult task to winnow down our selections to a ranked top five choices. (I identified 36 contenders based on a first reading of all entries.)

For those of you who, like me, have the soul of a songwriter and the logical mind of a computer programmer, I believe that the following simple procedure results in the fewest comparisons and decisions that have to be made, so by that logic it's the fastest and easiest way to complete the judging process. Starting with your list of finalists...

1. Look at the first two songs (A and B), decide which is better.

2. Look at song C... is it better than B? If not, it's third; if so, compare with A. You now have three songs ranked.

3. Continue this process until you have the first five songs ranked.

4. Now, for each new song, compare it to the song currently ranked #5. If it's not better, no further consideration of the new song is necessary. If it IS better, repeat the process above, comparing it in ascending order to the previously selected songs to come up with a newly ranked top 5. (The previous #5 drops off the list.)

Obviously, this approach is not the best for everyone, for lots of excellent reasons, but if any of you out there are bogged down and looking for a better system, you're welcome to try this one and see if it works for you.

I'd also like to hear how other people are managing the judging/ranking process. I'm still working on my list, and would welcome interesting ideas.


Mike
New Middle Class
http://www.newmiddleclass.com

Hi, Mike.

Thanks for the suggestions. I have winnowed down to 42 and was unsure how to progress.

Vondelle

One thing I would love to do once the nominations are announced is to have discussions about what we picked and why. Like EasyHero, I wasn't very comfortable with "Big Message" lyrics and ones in all caps, but I did choose a song with a definite point of view and a song in all caps as two of my five votes. Very simply, they worked for me, where others like them did not. Looking forward to the announcements! Linda

We let folks vote for themselves because I wanted to see how it would turn out. Also, as I mentioned before, there are probably at least 20 writers who rightfully should vote for their own song.

As for doing it anonymously.. it's impossible as I would have to re-post submissions and folks would still figure out who wrote stuff.. and it wouldn't solve bias problems at all. If you know the writers, you'll catch the song.. if you don't know the writers, then making them anonymous serves no purpose because a total stranger and an anonymous number are the same essentially. Plus, I want the side benefit of folks getting to know each other, finding someone they like, cowriting etc.. you need names for that.

We still have only had 60 votes in. There are a small number of songs with a lot of those votes, but I am disappointed in the very small number of voters. I imagine had we not allowed folks to vote for themselves, we'd have even less. I hope this is a case of people taking their time and not a case of disinterest in doing the work. I hope folks appreciate how much work has gone into the music awards and over 100,000 songs for us this year.

Brian

Greetings All... I just wanted to pop in quickly after Brian's last post because I am one of those voters-who-haven't-voted-yet because it is such a huge deliberation with the awesome talent in this category! To reassure you, Brian... you all put so much effort in making this lyric contest a part of the Annuals; I know the writers I've been keeping in touch with are all giving this so much time and thought to do it justice. I personally have been really excited to play even a small voter's role in this... and again, thank you for the opportunity.

Hello all. I would have to agree with Brian on the futility of keeping things anonymous. First off, he knows his own boards and surely the logistics of posting 500+ lyrics anonymously would be a nightmare. Secondly, even if it were possible and feasible, it wouldn`t work as being totally anonymous. I know several of us on the #2 lyric board share lyric ideas and hooks with each other, even before they become lyrics. Through emails or IM`s or phone calls, alot of us talk about what we`re working on/what`s in the "hopper" and even give each other pre-post reviews/ideas on lyrics. This process may seem ridiculous to some who don`t communicate as freely, but it really supports the theory "we`re all in this together". (Usually makes a better, more polished lyric too!) So...to back up what Brian says...if I send in an anonymous lyric, chances are a few of my JPF friends have already seen it, or knew I was working on that hook, so "total anonymity" is probably unattainable.

As far as knowing the results of where my lyric finished...I don`t want to know. If my lyric isn`t one of the top five, obviously it could have been better, and wasn`t as good as five others. Doesn`t matter if I come in 15th, or 105th, or 297th, or 439th, or dead last. If I didn`t win, (or at least place in the top five)...the next lyric I enter needs to be better. It`s that simple, to me anyway. Just my thoughts. Dano.

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www.angelfire.com/music3/danolyrics

Gotta' agree with Dano. I did not vote for myself, and would not even if I thought it was #1. Reason, it was so difficult to choose amongst the last 22 and then the final 7. AND when all is said and done, if mine does not make it through other's agony of the final (whatever number) then, I just have to trust the process, it wasn't meant to be for some reason, and I will (especially having gone through this voting and learning process) simply have to work harder at my craft. Thanks, Brian, this has been such an incredible learning experience. Appreciate your hard work and the opportunity to participate. Jeannette

I don't wanna sound non caring or presumptuous by saying this. But I did not enter my song lyrics to win or to vote for myself...but to enjoy the game...I look at it as fun and as a learning experience.
I think voting for oneself is ridiculous and should not be allowed...and whoever did should not be accepted in the voting process.
Insofar as choosing songs I found many good poems and very few lyrics. Two lyrics hit me in the stomach and churned my heart. The other 3 I voted for were well crafted. The ones I discarded were too verbose.
Having said the above....good luck to all of you and may the best win....by the way what does the best win? A new guitar? A trip to Los Angeles? A champions league cup?
A chance to get his song cut by a famous artist?

Later
Ingrid

L L,

Normally I`d agree with you...but when I narrowed my votes down to a list of ten, I felt I enjoyed them more, or they moved me more than mine did. I also felt these ten were crafted as well as, or better than mine. In fact, the one I picked as #1, blew me away. A lyric like that is what I need to write and enter next time. Don`t worry though, I still love the one of mine I entered, it has music, and I listen to it often. Peace back to ya. Dano.

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www.angelfire.com/music3/danolyrics

Wow! There are some great posts here regarding the contest! This is as much fun as readin' all those lyrics! Whew!

I just want to say a couple things, here.

1. ONLY 60 VOTES??? C'MON, Y'ALL....WE NEED MORE VOTERS. LIKE BRIAN SAID, YA CAN VOTE, EVEN IF YOU DIDN'T ENTER A LYRIC. SO LETS GET THEM THERE VOTES IN!! ONLY NINE DAYS TO GO, AND COUNTING.......

2. Re: Knowing the results......I agree with Dano also.....if it didn't make the final list, then I know it wasn't good enough....how BAD it was is somethin' I don't wanna know. It's enough to know it didn't make it.

3. Re: Voting for one's self.....I didn't vote for myself, because I would rather enjoy the feeling that my song...if it made it to the finals.....made it without me having to vote for it. Otherwise, I would be thinking that maybe it was my own vote that got it in the finals.....and that isn't a great feeling. (Does that make any sense?)

4. And most important.....I want to thank Brian and everyone else who made this possible. THANKS A BUNCH!!

LETS GET THEM VOTES IN, Y'ALL!!

Bluelitenin

The reason it's taking me so long is that I want to make the best choices I can. I'm down to 7, so I'm almost there. Picking my favorite was the easiest. It caught my eye right away, and was the only song that I knew was one of top five from the start. There are some well-crafted songs that I really liked in the last cut, and a couple that are not so well crafted, but have a bit more life in them. Some are clever, some are meaty. They're all good.

I would definitely agree with the comment that not making it into the top five doesn't mean the lyric's no good, or even that it's not as good as one in the top five. I made some close calls for purely arbitrary, personal reasons. There are flaws in my top seven, and there are some great lyrics in the top dozen, and some really good ones in the top twenty. Now I have to figure out what I value more. I think, in the end, it's what the song has to say to me, whether I think about the song the next day, when it just pops into my head, whether I want to read it again. But I don't want it to be because I feel obligated because it fits in with what I learned in some songwriting workshop, or because it's what I think a lyric's supposed to be. In other words, it's gotta have heart.

And I just realized I forgot to say, thanks, Brian, for letting us get on the other side of this process! It's been a great learning experience, and it's a real privilege to get to see what everyone has submitted. Though I can't honestly say that it's not important to me how the rankings turn out, I think the doing is more important than the final result. So I don't think the quibbles about the rules are all that important. And as far as I'm concerned, the main thing is that it makes me want to write more.

Finally!!!!!!!!
Got it all done. Came home from work this morning to do my voting, and my internet provider said that my authentation codes were incorrect. I thought, oh great here comes Murphy's law! But alas this afternoon every thing worked!
Thanks Brian for doing this. Some really good lyrics. I took you advice and voted for the ones that really moved me. Pretty much ended up with 5 songs right off the bat.

=== starfirefive says "poopie": ===
(this may be the dumbest question yet, but i STILL DON'T KNOW the answer to it)

where do we submit our votes?

.maybe i'm just blind.

Click http://www.justplainfolks.org/ubb/Forum59/HTML/000006.html

Just a quick note to say that I haven't been on the board lately, but I have looked at all 530-some lyrics and have narrowed them down to 27. (Mine is not among them, BTW. ) I hope to narrow them down to the Final Five tonight. It was a tedious, yet often fun exercise, I must say. If you're reading this, Brian, I hope you're not disappointed in the number of votes so far, because I imagine you'll get a ton of 'em just before the deadline. Thanks for putting on a great contest!!!

Anthony

P.S.: I, for one, would *love* to know where I ranked in the final voting, even if I did lousy. If there's any quick way you can enable that to happen, I'd be all for it.

------------------
Anthony's BeSonic site-- Open 24 hours!

[This message has been edited by Anthony (edited 09-25-2002).]

Well, I got through them all and voted for my top five. I hope I'm not out of line in saying many of these lyrics were absolutely dreadful (easy for me to say since I didn't enter). But I'm serious... it was easy to pick out the diamonds among all those dogs.

The ones that were good were very, very good (I noticed these tended to be from regular JPF contributers), and the great ones were, well, great. Of my top five picks I think at least two are as good as anything on the radio today.

Conratulations to everyone who entered, and kudos to the administrators for pulling this off.

BB

Hmmm,Well we've all got to start somewhere. I don't know how far along I am now, but the first songs I wrote were about 8 verses with a chorus in there somewhere and , uh. pretty bad. I expect a lot of the entries were from folks who hadn't been writing long or don't write much. But there's a lot to be learned by just going through and studying the entries. Most people can pick up the "flow" of a lyric even if they haven't been writing long. Then if they're serious they can look at their own and ask themselves, "Why doesn't mine flow?. I believe at least one person printed off the whole batch. Whew, don't know if my little Lexmark would survive that

Just some food for thought....

Yes, I agree that there are varying levels of talent or perhaps merely experience displayed in the entries to this contest. But I think everyone who submitted a lyric deserves to be recognized for having the courage to bare their soul to the entire planet and to be judged and ranked.

You know what? I think the guts to do that is the first big hurdle a songwriter has to leap bravely over before he or she can really begin to improve their craft.

That's being more than brave, that displays courage that is trancendental. And besides that, it's just plain smart. Anybody who really wants to become a better writer knows what an enemy to progress their own ego-goggles can be. IMHO the most effective tool to be used against it is the honest, constructive viewpoints of the people you are playing to, and the willingness to listen to them.

OK, this is a contest, somebody will win, most won't. But everybody who submitted has already won a measure of respect, even if it only comes from themselves. That's the best prize there is.

John Trentes

Interesting viewpoints expressed. There is no question that all levels of skill are involved in this. My hope is that by reading all the entries, a lot of folks will get an education in songwriting (lyric writing more specifically) that they may never have gotten before. I have personally listned to parts or all of the 12K CD's (maybe it's 13K at this point..) we have gotten in the past 4 years. After several thousand, I was able to see weaknesses in some of my own songs that I totally could NEVER see previously. I learned far more from the weak stuff simply because it illuminated problems that I could then recognize in my own work.

I think we are around 75 votes give or take so far. It is likely I will extend the entry period since I won't be off the road for another 8 days anyway and we never got a chance to announce the voting in the newsletter because I haven't had time on the road to send a newsletter out. (It can take over 12 straight hours to do so.. major time hog...).

As a regular screener of music for our awards process, the RFV channel and other organizations contests etc... I see a lot of material that has problems that the writers/artists are 100% unwilling or unable to acknowledge, no matter how nicely you suggest improvements or give positive and constructive feedback. It's often these folks who criticize everyone else for their lack of success (i.e. the Labels.. the media... the Radio programmers... the contest judges... companies like TAXI or Tonos or others). I can't tell all of you how many times I have had nasty attitudes from folks that were clearly in the bottom 10% of all music I have come across and who insist everyone else is wrong but them. There is no question that musical beauty is in the ear of the beholder so to speak, but trust me, there are many folks simply unwilling to deal with any level of reality when it comes to their music. On the otherhand, on this roadtrip alone I have seen several artists/writers dramatically improve over the last 4 years, so in shockingly positive ways because they were able to take constructive criticism and implement it and just keep moving forward. I hope folks here will use this process in the same way. To become familiar with the talent that is out there and the level it takes to rise to the top and to work to improve your work to match and surpass the examples. That is always how humans have moved forward in art, business, science and life in general.

Brian

Hello, John Trentes -

Very good food for thought and well served!

Linda