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I wasn't really sure what to call this topic. I have an idea I'd like to toss out to anyone in Ontario. I'm a bass player, and as many of you know, I use the computer to record my demos and fake the other instruments with software. I'd like to see if there are enough of us around who play different instruments to put together an ongoing collective to make all of our demos more polished, without spending hundreds of dollars. For example, I could contribute a bass track to your demo in exchange for a smoking guitar track on mine, and we could both provide backing vocals for someone else who could help us with a keyboard part, etc. Sort of a "pay it forward" kind of idea.

Some of us could meet in person to do these things, or if we are using compatible software (I use Cakewalk), even do it by e-mail or snail mail if it's a huge multitrack file.

Does anyone else think this idea is workable. It seems to me yhat it can't be any worse than doing mail order demos from a service in Nashville.

I look forward to hearing some opinions on this idea, or alternatives.
You should see the discussion the computer question has provoked in the Songwriter Forum. Some very strong opinions indeed.

By the way, if it's by e-mail, there is no reason to limit this to Ontario. Vikki, ECA333 or whatever your real name is, you are welcome to contribute to the discussion or take part in whatever experiment we decide to try.

I eagerly await your feedback.


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Terry

Don't worry too much about life. You'll never get out alive.


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/7/terryfernihoughmusic.htm

[This message has been edited by Terry Fernihough (edited 08-13-2005).]

Hey Terry... yeah, I think I posted on that thread.

I probably mentioned a little about this - I have been fortunate enough to collab with a group of folks from all over North America, and as far away as Australia & Wales... they basically had a 'sign-up deadline' and got about dozen musicians of different stripes, and we've been producing about 2 or 3 songs a month. You contribute to other's songs, and you get to have your song produced. One of the things that makes it work is that we all pretty much play in the same genres (country mostly), and we've got at least 2 people who know how to mix -- an important part of the process! My main ability is as a lead F singer or back-up vocalist, but I have managed to provide a bass line on the keyboard now and then. I've also been learning how to mix.

Basically how it works is that the songwriter provides a simple reference track, preferably with clicks or a count-in at the beginning. It gets posted as an MP3 on soundclick. The drummer, for example, downloads the MP3, converts it to wav, pops it into her/his recording software, records the drum track while listening to / aligning with the reference track. Then he/she would render just the drum track (without removing any space at the front), convert it to MP3, upload it to soundclick. Then the project mixer downloads the MP3, converts it, lines it up with the reference track... and lines up & then mixes all the tracks that come through.

You don't really need compatible software as long as everyone can render/mix down wav files and convert them to MP3s.

The trick is for everyone to follow the reference track, and for the mixer to post new reference tracks as you go along. Also, tracks may be edited so that everyone gets a chance to solo & stuff.

I've explained most of it here, but there's probably more detail on The Collaborators page at http://www.soundclick.com/thecollaborators. It sounds more complicated than it is - I think the most time consuming part is for the mixer, who has to keep up with downloading and uploading as well as lining tracks up (which can be a pain).

On top of that I've been doing trades with other folks, if they need a female vocal I'll help out, and maybe they'll do a guitar track or bass track or drum track for me. My experience with The Collaborators helped me to understand how easy it is to do that.

I think it's wonderful, personally. Not only do you save money, but you get to work with some really incredible people and great musicans too!

If anyone needs a female lead or back-up vocal (I'm pretty good with harmony), you can check out my sound!

Hummin'bird... a.k.a. Vikki

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Vikki Flawith, Canadian Singer/Songwriter & Voice Teacher

This bird sings at:
http://www.soundclick.com/vikkiflawith

Blog: http://theshysinger-songwriter.blogspot.com

[This message has been edited by Hummingbird (edited 08-14-2005).]

I'll second what Vikki said. I'm one of those "Collaborators," and the last song they did was one I wrote. I can testify it works, even for someone as technologically primitive as myself.

What I did on mine is I sent one of 'em an *.mp3 of my song, with room for lead breaks, and he sent me back a "reference" drum loop of about the right length and exactly (since it was computer-generated) the right tempo, and I re-recorded rhythm guitar and lead vocal to that (just listening to the drum loop through headphones) and sent it back. One by one, everybody else added their stuff, track by track--in this case, bass, drums, lead guitar, dobro, mandolin, piano, and Vikki's backup vocals--and then one of 'em mixed it down. Good product--I am impressed (and so is everybody who's listened to it).

So it doesn't matter what software you're using, because there's a common format--*.mp3--that everybody can work in. It helps, I think, to have a Website everybody can post to and download from (The Collaborators' is on Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/bands/7/thecollaborators.htm), but even that's probably not essential if someone like yourself can be a focal point everybody can go to.

And yes, I'm interested. I have maybe a dozen songs of mine that could use to be recorded with a band, and I don't happen to have a band in my hip pocket right now (or any way to get into a commercial recording studio, either). This Internet collaboration thing is a way around that. Yes, I am willing to contribute what talents I may have to help out other folks in return. I can play decent guitar, and if it's country, I may be able to do lead. (I should probably not suggest I can sing.)

URL for some of my stuff is below, so you can have an idea what I sound like. No need (my opinion) to limit yourself to Ontario, or even a local area; like Vikki pointed out, one of The Collaborators is from Australia. Thanks to the wonders of modern technology, the world is y'all's oyster. Feast and enjoy.

Joe
www.soundclick.com/bands/7/joewrabek_music.htm

[This message has been edited by roxhythe (edited 08-14-2005).]

This is an outstanding way to do it, if I understand it correctly. I'm guessing that the reference track is panned hard to one side, with the click panned hard the other way? Then when someone lays down another track, they mute the reference track, and pan their part hard to the same side, so the click is on one side and they are on the other?

I'm going to Soundclick right now to have a look, and then I'll understand it fully. I probably should have done that before I replied to this thread, but I was too excited that the idea is a working thing already....

Thanks for replying. I am willing to contribute bass, lead vocals, back up vocals, and perhaps drum loops. I don't know if I can be as regular as some of the contributors you have now, though. My day job involves a lot of travel, and I have dial-up at home. That will probably change very soon. Let me know how I can help, and I will do my best. If a project comes down the pipeline that I just don't have time for, I'll let you know so you aren't waiting on me.

I'm sure I'll have more questions in a few minutes, so bear with me....



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Terry

Don't worry too much about life. You'll never get out alive.


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/7/terryfernihoughmusic.htm

Hi Terry, I use Tracktion 2, so what I do is download the reference track MP3, covert it to wav, import it into Traction, for example, on track one. Then I record my contribution on track two. Then I mute track one and (without adding any effects or filters) mix down/render track two into a 'raw' wav file. Then I convert the wav into Mp3, and upload it to the collab site.

We've found it's real important to have a reference track with a good beat, and a count in or drum click before the song begins, so everyone can line up -- that's the hardest part of the whole thing.

Hummin'bird

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Vikki Flawith, Canadian Singer/Songwriter & Voice Teacher

This bird sings at:
http://www.soundclick.com/vikkiflawith

[This message has been edited by Hummingbird (edited 08-14-2005).]

Dear Vikki:
I went to the Collaborators page on Soundclick. I understand completely now. If the start time is the same, the track should theoretically line up.
Very cool way to skin this particular cat. I'm going to hit an internet cafe in the morning, where I can get high speed access, and download the songs to check out what you've done.

I would like to get involved if you are willing to have me. Check out what I've done on my own, and see if you think we could work together. I await your response.

Terry, check your email