JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Mentor Questions Forum HOW TO KNOW THE LENGTH OF A SONG

I am strictly a lyric writer. Prone to think I don't have enough lines in a lyric.
What are the guidelines as to the length of a lyric? Is there a formula to try to calculate the longth of a song? Such as; 4 lines each vers, 4 verses is 16 lines. 10 beats each line is 160 beats. 160 beats is equal to ???? song time? What's an average song time? What's the longest or shortest time? What's an average number of lines in a lyric? What's the least and the most? I will GREATLY APPRECIATE ANY HELP on this. Thank you for your consideration.
Jim
jb@newedgetech.net

W

wha

There are no rules, but the slower the tempo of the song, the fewer beats you'll need to hit the ideal three minute performance. As the tempo increases, generally you need more of everything.

P.E. Knudsen

Simple answer to that one: ask your writing partner! All these things are individual calls.

M


------------------
Michael Leahy
The Accidental Lyricist
http://michael-leahy.indiegroup.com

I think the answer to your question lies not in ticks of the clock but in the heart and soul of your lyric. You have to decide for yourself if you have written too little, or too much. Besides, there are so many variables that it would be madness to try to quantify it, IMO.

If you really believe that there is some mathmatical formula, then get out your stopwatch, queue up a bunch of songs you like, count the words and do the math. The results might be very interesting....or even instructive.

I believe it was Robert Heinlein who once answered someone's question about the length of a work of fiction:

"You begin at the beginning, then you proceed through the middle until you come to the end. When you come to the end, you stop."

I think that applies to songs as well.

--- Ed

Thanks to each one of you. Another reason that I asked is a critiquer replied back to a lyric of mine and said that it was too long.
Thanks again to each of you
Jim

Take a look at the length of hit songs in the genre for which you are writing. I don't mean the TIME of the song, I mean the "word density." Note the number of verses, choruses, etc. Note the various line lengths. If you are writing great blocks of words, odds are your songs will be long. Of course, that's just a general guide. If the words are meant to be sung very fast, you'll fit more words in a shorter time.

Take a look at Shania Twain's lyrics. You'll be surpised how few words she actually uses.

BB

Folks:

Heinlein was right--but only up to a point. He didn't have to deal with Music Industry Professionals who have their own arbitrary time limits that you either live with or lose out. Case in point is that "magic" 3-1/2 minute limit, originally determined by how much cutting you could physically do on a 45-rpm plastic disk. 45s may be history, but the 3-1/2 minute limit is still with us. (There are others. Did you know that the diameter of a guided missile that has to be transported on a railroad flatcar is dictated by the width of a horse's butt in the Roman army?)

I try myself to hit somewhere between 3 and 5 minutes. (The 5-minute limit is dictated by some talent show competitions I've participated in. I can write a song any length I want, but if I want to enter it in their competition, it better be under 5 minutes long.) What length is appropriate is really dictated by what your audience can stand; you want to give 'em enough so they're satisfied, but not so much they start wiggling in their chairs or leaving the dance floor.

For myself, I usually think 2 verses is too short unless the verses are real long, and 5 verses is too much unless it's a real uptempo song with no lead breaks. However, I can and do violate my own rules consistently. I'll always test a song out on my 2 audiences (one tavern, one not) and see how they like it; if they like it, they'll hear it again, and if not, the song may be dustbin material.

I do stick to the time limit, though. I like working in a box, and the 3-1/2-to-5-minute limit makes for a good box. It forces me to be very precise with words, to get the maximum impact out of each and every one, and I think that's improved my writing. Whatever works for you, do.

Choruses? I always have choruses because I write country music, and a country music song without a chorus is like a two-legged dog. If I envision the audience singing along with the chorus, I will make the words easy to remember, the notes easy to sing (not hard if you have a voice range as narrow as mine), and make it sound enough different from the verses so the audience knows it's coming.

Hope this helps.

Joe

Thanks againg to each of you. Joe I especially want to thank you. Your info was bothe informative and a treat to read. I REALLY appreciate your givning me some idea as to how many verses to have in a lyric. Thanks again to all.
JIm