JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Fake Country Accents

OK this really bothers me.

Gary Allen: This guy is from California and didn't even move to Nashville until he was in his thirties (according to the top 40 count down) yet he has one of the thickest southern accents when he sings. But when he talks there's not a trace.

Keith Urban: From Australia and has the accent to match when he talks. When he sings all of a sudden words like "think" become "thank" and "down" become "de-own".

Garth Brooks was another one.

What's up with these people? Pure sell outs?

Thoughts?

Well part of what makes country (in my mind) country, is the southern accent used in the vocals. Thats only part of it, but it just wouldn't be right hearing some guy from Jersey or Boston singing to country instrumentals with THOSE accents, would it?

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Best Regards,
Chris

"To imagine is everything."
-Einstein
My Original Works & Classical Renditions

Not sure if this is relevant, but who cares:

Somebody once asked the Beatles why they spoke like Englishmen, but sang like Americans. They replied, "It sells better."

GB

When in Rome...
Try to appeal to the Romans..
Sell to the Romans.

Same thing happens in POP.

Hey I heard Christine Aguillar at a awards show
sounding like she grew up in south Philly.
Saying "yo" and "you know what I mean"
"That's what I talkin bout"

Then I saw her on a tv interview talkin like a normal white girl...

Saw Brittany do the same..

I've seen the same from Eminem..

Mark Walhberg.. Marky Mark..
A bunch of White folks trying to talk like Black rappers.

I'ts called Imitation...
Not being real...IMAGE.. Acting...

Hey.. I'm trying to write more twang in my lyrics because country is pretty much the only venue to sell a song in anymore....

DAvid

I don't subscribe to the notion that you have to have a country accent to sing country music. Its not the accent that makes the diffenrence its the feel. You've got to feel country music. If you don't, it doesn't work. I like to equate it to the same "feeling" you have to have to sing soul and real R&B.

Hey sqbaum, Where are you from around Atlanta?

Well, all this talk about being real. I say if you don't talk with an accent, then singing with one is faking it, no matter how it sounds. If you're not using your natural voice there's nothing real about it to me.

So what about opera? Should a Texan sing it only with a Texas accent? I heard a wonderful young Texan soprano a few weeks ago on "A Pairie Home Companion." The young lady sang Italian beautifully

All the Best,
Mike



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Mike Dunbar Music

That is a typically cheeky Beatle response, but I think there is more to it than that. The music they loved and voraciously listened to, was American music...rock and roll and R&B. I thing they (perhaps unconsciously) emulated their heros as they were learning their craft, and it bacame a part of their sound.

I think a lot of country singers do the same. It seems perfectly natural to me. I have no southern accent, but when I want to make a song sound "country" I naturally will drawl the vowels a little, and pronounce the word "a" with a long A sound.

My thoughts. Try a litle experiment.
Think of an Itish joke you like. Tell it to a crowd in whatever acent you wear normally.
Then find anothre crowd and tell it in an Irish accent (only if y6ou can) and see which gets the biggest laugh. Provided it is in fact a funny joke of course.
I believe the latter will get the most smiles.
Songs tell a story, and just like an actor getting into charictor, a singer is well advided to do the same.
Not a matter of faking it. Just a matter of building the scene.
Now when they carry that part into real life (see my The Best That Never Was song, that is where it becomes faking it.
Graham


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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/grahamhendersonmusic.htm

Yes, anyone should use their own voice. Anything other is not being true to yourself. There is no getting around the fact that if you fake an accent while singing, it's faking. Could you imagine Ray Charles trying to sound country? Yet he performs country songs beautifully using his natural voice. Johnny sounded like Johnny no matter what style of song he sang. Willie is Willie, Steve Perry is Steve Perry, Billy Joel is Billy Joel, etc., etc., etc. That's because they are honest singers. Changing your voice to sound like you have a southern drawl ... when you don't... isn't honest at all.

That still doesn't answer my question about opera.

Mike

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Mike Dunbar Music

Don't know Mike, but I do love the rendition of Temptation that starts off:
"Ohhhhhh. Mary Lou. Oh Tell Me.
Why you look so pale tonight.
Thars bags around ya eyballs.
That are pink instead of white.
Stitooon Ding"
Female vox: "When it's thisaway.
You came, I was alone.
I shoulda known.
You were temptation.

You smileed, aluring me on.
I sholda known.
You were temptation.."
Graham


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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/grahamhendersonmusic.htm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pattycakes:
[B] Yes, anyone should use their own voice. Anything other is not being true to yourself. There is no getting around the fact that if you fake an accent while singing, it's faking.


What does this theory have to do with selling a platinum record?
Your hypothetical emotional rant, is rather amusing at best- irrational, and insulting to the great artists who made themselves icons in the industry.
I challenge you to tell your story to them,
and get their response; I'm willing to bet, you'll be walking away with your tail between your legs.


Just my opinion

Cal

In the US, formally trained actors, newscasters and singers study Standard American stage diction and they use it in their work. Are they fake because of that?

Jim Nabors is from Alabama. Where is his accent in a lot of his songs? Is he being fake if he sings "thing" instead of "thang?"

There are country lyrics that won't rhyme properly unless you have an accent. LOL.
Maybe that's reason enough.

My opinion is you aren't mature enough to have an adult conversation and debate rather than insult. Tail still firmly waging.

Ps. The great artists who made themselves icons in the industry don't fake it.

I know that a southern accent, merely makes you southern, not necessarily country. That doesn't mean folks without southern accents shouldn't sing country music though. It's not a big deal to me. I also know that if you want to sell records, you make records that people want.

I don't support some artists, for my own reasons, if you don't like what an artist does, or why they do it, don't buy their albums. Anyway, I've read somewhere that we all have 200 or so personalities inside ourselves, that we apply for different situations, my brother and I were raised in the south, I have an accent, he doesn't, but when he sings country songs, it always shows up. Maybe, because he's listened to country music so long, by performers who had the country accent, that's what sounds natural to him, my brother doesn't know that he sounds different when he sings, until someone points it out. Or maybe, that's his country personality showin through, for that moment, and situation.

Justin.

[This message has been edited by JUSTINHAUSER (edited 03-31-2004).]

Everyone should be MADE to listen to the James Taylor Alison Krause version of "How's The World Treating You ?"

It's agreat example of two people singing a beautiful, traditional country song with no accent affectations at all...

It's so dignified and beautiful.....

bob Young

PS...

I caught myself faking a country accent on a few of my songs....
I don't do it any more....
Just my own personal choice...
If someone else wants to do it, it's OK with me....but I was embarrassed when I realized I was doing it...

LOL Bob. I decided to go for a Hillbilly vox on one, and thought I had done not bad.
First comment was. "Love that Aussie Accent Cobber.
Anybody seen a burst bubble aroound here?
Graham

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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/grahamhendersonmusic.htm

My dearest Pattycakes-
I will tread softly on pillows so as not to awaken the slumbering genius-
What does "faking," ones vocal syle, "honesty" and "being true to yourself"
as you put it, (dictated), have to do with selling records; particularly the numbers of product these artists sell to achieve Gold or Platinum status?
The gimmick is actually "adapting," not faking.

Was this "mature enough?"

Your turn-

Cal



[This message has been edited by Cal (edited 03-31-2004).]

Hmmmm? Whatever makes a person feel that he or she is giving it their best i think is the most important .Everyone has his own groove if it feels good do it,even if its thing or thang seems that most are enjoying the songs that are hittin the charts !and that a good thing i thank? Thats my 2 cents! have fun enjoy the ride !!! s.d.

Two-part answer to the question about opera.

First part first. I grew up in upstate New York (the only part of the U.S. where nobody has an accent, by the way<g> ), and took German in high school; our German teacher was an upstate New York native. We had the luck to get a couple of exchange students in my second year--from Germany, of all places. And they had trouble understanding the German teacher's German because of her accent. The teacher was smart enough to give the exchange students the lead in teaching her and us how German was really supposed to be spoken, and that was how we learned German for most of that year.

Should a Texan sing Italian opera with a Texas accent? In my opinion, no--not if he or she wants to be understood. The understanding (my opinion, again) is market-driven; that's why the Beatles "sang American" even if they spoke Brit--they were selling to Americans, and they wanted Americans to understand them. I recall a number of British Invasion groups (second wave, mostly) didn't--and one complaint heard constantly about them was you couldn't understand what they were saying.

Second part second. If I'm trying to emulate how my Hero of the Month uses words, some of what they *sound* like is going to come out when I sing it. A song from a Tom Paxton Period is going to sound a little like Tom Paxton, one from an Elvis Period like Elvis, and so forth. The Beatles did it, too (my opinion). They were trying to imitate American singers--and they succeeded.

It's not a "fake twang," in other words--it's just part of how the person I'm trying to imitate used words. Some of 'em got more twang than others.

Findl thought. If it were a Texas opera (instead of an Italian one), yes, I sure would expect the people performing it to sound like they were from Texas. Wouldn't (in my opinion) sound authentic if they didn't.

Joe

You ar obviously very young.

I was young once too...
I remember alot of the thingsabout being young..

One of the things you grow out of (hopefully) is believing that what's true for youis true for everyone.

I did...

There may have been a time when I would have said "If you're not using your own voice, you're faking it"..

but...what about an actor from New York performing in Streetcar named Desire ?
Is he or she "faking" when they add the New Orleans dialect to their speech..
Or are they trying their best to add authenticity to the part ?

My favorite guitars are Gibsons..
They have a particular sound....
When I do a "country" gig, I don't use them..
I use a Fender guitar..
It's sound is more appropriate (in my opinion) to the genre..
Am I being untrue to myself as an artist ?
I rarely if ever drop the "g" from "ing words..
So...when I sing "Your Cheatin' Heart" am I being a faker when I say "cheatin"..
Or am I paying my respect to Hank Williams..a true Genius who sang it that way...

To imply that YOU will decide if an artist is "faking it" or not is a perfect example of a display of youthful arrogance.

I hope you grow out of that attitude...

Like I said earlier, I did, and I'm glad !

Bob (not so) Young

I'm on the side of allowing vocal "coloring" of a song to reflect the song's nature, regardless of the "natural" accent of the artist involved.

I mean, it's not as if I pretend I'm from Kentucky when I sing a song that "feels" *country* to me. But a country accent naturally comes out because it's part of the entire package of THAT particular song's "vocabulary". Similarly, when I sing Irish songs, the Irish accent naturally comes out...

I don't use the same voice coloring for pop songs as the one I use for rock songs... Similarly, "Broadway" songs have their own unique vocal style attached to them.

What's worse than hearing a beautiful operatic voice...TRYING to sing a pop song while the artist insists upon using the operatic qualities of their voice? The voice may be BEAUTIFUL...but if the accent and tone are wrong for the genre, it's simply awful to listen to! What works for one style doesn't necessarily translate well to a different one... (I don't sing opera because, despite the other things my voice might be able to do, it doesn't "translate" well in that particular genre...)

After all, almost ANY song can be produced for marketing to several different genres, depending upon the instruments used, the vocal stylings, the arrangement selected, etc. The accent is just one of those tools to keep the song "true" to that genre.

So I believe the "acquired" accent is legit so long as it's there to convey the flavor of a particular song.

And, face it--if the artist of whom you speak were trying to be a sell-out (and "fool" his fans), he'd use the country accent not only when he sang, but when he spoke, as well...

Just my opinion...



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www.dianatyler.com

All this debate over an accent. Wow. I never woulda thunk it. I know now though.

This is an interesting topic.

I grew up in Flint, Michigan bouncing back and forth between divorced parents homes there- dad/grandparents from the South and watching Hee-Haw every night; mom/and grandparents all lifelong Michiganders. I went to predominantly black schools and had lots of black friends.

Incidentally, I speak northern (it's changed to a little western since moving to Alaska 3 years ago), sing country with a drawl, and when I get around my African American friends a little of the "ebonics" (trying to be as PC as possible) comes out. Does this mean I'm selling out? Where do I call my roots to consider as a baseline? These were just all my influences growing up and I have carried them with me and feel that my broader exposure has simply made me a more "dynamic" personality.

Have you ever let somebody hold you hostage to conversation becaususe you wanted to be "nice"?
Have you ever put your beliefs or values in your back pocket to let another have thier way?
Have you lost something you worked hard for to the pawn shop?
Did you ever break a promise to your kids?

If you can answer "no" to every single one of these questions, then please call a non-southerner who uses an accent in a country song a sell-out. Feel free. Chances are you can answer yes to one of those, and if you can, than you like the rest of us has experienced being a true "sell-out". We're talking about sing a song here. A song.

Are there some singers who don't sound good with a drawl? Sure. Maybe they should choose another song or genre. Maybe they shouldn't. Maybe people liked it anyway. Who knows.

The point is, it's a song and no consequence hinges on it except for making a buck or million. That's the singer's business.

Now, if the guy from Bahstun sings with a drawl and claims to be from N'Awlins, then you have yourself a sell-out and a liar. If he/she makes no bones about being from beantown, then maybe you just have yourself a good country singer. Excuse me - a good country MUSIC singer. I think that's where the emotions are getting lost at. It's the music that makes country music, not the singer. Anybody can be a country singer.

What about the little girl who from Newark, when asked what she wants to be when she grows up replies, "A Country music star?". Do you tell her that if she wants to do that she'd better get training on the Dobro or the fiddle because with that northern accent it's forbidden and you won't allow her to adapt a drawl, because then she's pretending to be somebody she's not if she wants to sing? What if it was your child?Good God! I think some folks ought to get out of thier cubicles a little more and read a book or get a pen pal or do something that exposes you to a little more of the planet than the block surrounding 123 Main Street, Smallville, USSR.

It's just music, it's not that big of a deal. If you disagree with sellouts, then tell the truth 1 more time per week than you usually do, because that's how your parent's raised you. Ask your kid who his homeroom teacher is. Take the extra money you'd spend on that Thursday night 12 pack and buy your wife a rose and tell her she makes you feel the same as she did when you got married 12 years ago and your sorry you've taken her for granted for the last 11.5 years. Remember the faces of your parents next time you conscience tells you you're being dishonest. Something, anything. There's bigger fish to fry.

Ghandi said, "Be the change you want to see in the world". I want to sing country and I haven't spent more than 60 days of my life south of the Mason-Dixon Line. That doesn't make me a sellout.

Cheers,

Rodney

[This message has been edited by rodhughey (edited 04-01-2004).]

Hey all,
I would like to weigh in here. I guess Patty Cakes got a fire lit in all your stoves. I am from West Virginia, raised in Tennesee for awhile, lived in California for many years and now in Washington. Hmm. So how do you think my accent sounds? As a Singer-Songwriter, I just take some many things like how people speak around me into consideration. Does my varied geographical past give me the right to use those accents when I want to and be authentic? Gee, I guess so.

My point being, I talk like who I am around.
I am influenced by that extremely.When I sing, it depends on the style, then I sing like I think and feel it needs. Singing and speech requires many accents.
Michael

no! that's the sound we want to hear, and buy apparently.

Hmmm...

You know, I suppose I really don't care what accent someone has. I think it's more important as to whether or not the song is any good. Then, is the vocalist translating the emotion of the song to the listener? If the answer is "yes" then who really cares what style the vocal is?

It's a creative thing. If I decided one of my songs would benefit from giving the vocal a twang, a drawl, a snit, a snort or a bronx cheer to it, you can bet I'll be putting that inflection in there.

*********** Quote:
Yes, anyone should use their own voice. Anything other is not being true to yourself. There is no getting around the fact that if you fake an accent while singing, it's faking. Could you imagine Ray Charles trying to sound country? Yet he performs country songs beautifully using his natural voice. Johnny sounded like Johnny no matter what style of song he sang. Willie is Willie, Steve Perry is Steve Perry, Billy Joel is Billy Joel, etc., etc., etc. That's because they are honest singers. Changing your voice to sound like you have a southern drawl ... when you don't... isn't honest at al

******************

In response to this, yup all those people had their "voice" but if you really believe that they didn't sing to suit the song then you really need to examine you're logic.

I'm also surprised you didn't mention Queen or the Beatles in that list. But then they sang and wrote to suit the song. Oh wait, they sold millions of records so they weren't true to themselves.

Jody

p.s. - Are you aware that Steve Perry was a Sam Cooke wannabe? BTW - Steve was a great singer, but he can't sing anymore because he was so "true" to himself he wore his voice out.

[This message has been edited by Whitesides (edited 04-01-2004).]

Wow, what a tempest.

I guess I'm like a previous poster who said he sounds like the people he's around. Perhaps due to lots of stage experience (acting, as well as singing) including using different accents because they belonged in the piece, I have, for better or worse, what is sometime called an "ear" for accents. I'm a bit of a linguistic chameleon. Some people crash miserably when they attempt, for example, an Irish or Scottish accent, or Southern for that matter. Others can "nail it." Others, like me, soak up their surroundings and start to sound like wherever they are at the time.

I would submit that that ability does not necessarily put us at the same level as Satan or Osama, nor does it amount to "selling out." Try living in a foreign country for a few weeks, and see if you don't come back talking a little differently. If you don't, you probably weren't listening or engaged with others. It's not a conscious effort to deceive or dissemble, simply a response to one's surroundings. Country music, to me, is simply like going to a different place, and when in Rome (Georgia) it's helpful, and quite natural, to sound as the Romans do. Those with a "tin ear" for language, who lay it on thick, should probably be real careful about making the conscious effort, though.

Some songs just cry out for the twang.

Spare me the moral outrage. I've got much bigger faults than this, if you want to be outraged we can talk about them instead!

Mature to a point, but laced with sarcasm as well as a sense you are intimidated by me. Selling records has never had anything to do with honesty. Bob Dylan and Poison sold records. Who do you think will go down in history as honest and which one as generic?

Great point, two "honest" artists not faking a thing! This is what it's all about.

Singing to suit a song is not faking an accent. Paul John and George (love his voice) sound the same on everything they sang. They didn't fake accents. I'm a Beatles nut.

No one is talking about picking up a hint of an accent. I'm talking about people who have NO country/southern accent whatsoever to begin with. I'm talking about a guy who lives in California all his life, doesn't speak with any southern accent to this day, but sings with one of the thickest southern drawls of any current country artists. Sorry, that's a sell out in my book.

if you can fake it good - i don't mind. if you can't fake good (like - if i can tell) then it bothers me.

i prefer straightforward honest delivery, but i don't give a f*ck what you choose to sound like so long as you do it well and in a way that appeals to me.

lots of my favorite 60s and 70s rockers where impersonating their favorite motown singers.

that said - many of the current crop of country singers just aren't faking it all that well to begin with -- that's what i take issue with.



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kit malone
http://www.kitmalone.com

I probably have a thicker southern accent than most any of you(and d@mn proud of it too). I LOVE to sing country music, it suits me best I think. Having said that, I still can sing any genre. Yes I sound different singing R&B and POP than I do singing country. Its not "fake" though. I just adapt to the music.
I remember when I was in college I auditioned for my first gig wth a band. I got the lead singer / front man job. After a few months we were all sitting around one night and they told me,"when you walked in that night to audition and opened your mouth, we thought therre was no way you could sing anything but country, with that drawl of yours". Of course that was a cover band so you gotta kinda sound lioke the artist.
But I still really think it depends on what music you're singing. An AC/DC song just wouldn't sound right "Shook me awwwl niught lawwwwng"!

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Pattycakes disliking whomever she wishes to, for whatever reason she chooses. If however, she is presenting her case as an argument, it has a classical flaw in logic called "argumentum ad hominem," the argument is against the man rather than the position or product.

In that case, the argument would be that the product was not good because of the attitude or intention of the artist. You may not wish, for example, to buy the Dixie Chicks' albums for political reasons, but that doesn't mean their music is bad.

A white man can sing the blues honestly and with feeling, using black dialect and accent. An American can sing Italian opera honestly and with feeling, well enough to get standing ovations in Rome. A kentuckian can play the part of a pirate using an english accent and be nominated for the Academy Award. A New Yorker can become a legendary country singer who has a regular tv show where he speaks with a southern accent. Are there black people, Italians, Southerners, and British folk who think of these people as poseurs, carpetbaggers, and fakes? Sure there are, but that doesn't diminish the artistic work.

To conclude, let me point out that I never read Patty arguing that these singers' products should be regarded as bad, just that she regards the singers as fakes.

All the Best,
Mike

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Mike Dunbar Music

First of all, "country" and "southern" are not synonymous, in regard to accents or anything else. For the purpose of this argument, clearly it is actually southern accents that are being discussed. Since "country" music, at least originally, was a southern music style, I think there's usually some expectation of hearing a southern accent in the vocals.

Of course, there is no single southern accent, so a singer from Georgia's accent may not sound like a singer from Arkansas' accent. So, if someone from New Jersey can fake it well enough for me to think she could be from some vaguely defined point south of the Mason-Dixon, I say go for it. Frankly, I've heard someone singing traditional country with a Fran Drescher accent and wished they would try to southern it up a bit. Faking or not, I think I would have enjoyed it more.

I don't think it's quite so black or white, in many instances, that we could accuse someone of being dishonest in their singing. I'm a native Nashvillian and my family's roots are as southern as they could possibly be. However, I've personally lived in several other places, including "up north"....lived outside the U.S., as well. So, because of being exposed to many other accents, my southern accent isn't terribly strong when I speak. If I sang with a heavier accent (which I typically do, though not intentionally) does that mean I'm some kind of fake? I would think I have the proper "credentials" to sing with a southern accent, but it doesn't sound like my speaking voice. So, am I a fraud? There's no right or wrong answer, in my opinion. I don't care if you're from Kalamazoo, Michigan or Pocahantas, Arkansas....if I'm listening to you sing, I'm not sure why I'd automatically know (or care) where you're from. If you sound authentic to the music you're singing, I'm likely to enjoy it more than if you don't. If you're singing with a bad accent, I doubt I'll enjoy it much. Simple as that.

The acting analogy is actually a pretty good one. It boils down to how well a person can convince me for the duration of the movie, or in this case song, that they are the character. I don't really require them to be the character forever, on stage or off. To me, it'd be like listening to Johnny Cash and then getting pissed off when I found out that he never really did shoot that man in Reno. I only need to believe it for the couple of minutes the song lasts. Same for the accents....just convince me for the three minutes I'm listening to the song.

Randy

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http://www.songramp.com/homepage.ez?Who=RandyB

[This message has been edited by RandyB (edited 04-01-2004).]

Anybody remember Kevin Costner playing the part of Robin Hood? If so, did you find yourself distracted by his lack of English accent? I know it took a lot of the enjoyment out of the film for me. But I guess it was more important that he wasn't a sellout...

[This message has been edited by Buzz Grudge (edited 04-01-2004).]

Actors are acting, playing a part, being someone they are not, that's their job. If that's what you want to hear in your music than fine. I myself like music delivered from the heart with honesty. How anyone can say faking in accent is honest is beyond me.

Patty...for goodness' sake..

singers are actors, playing a part..

If I'm having a great day does that mean I can't go to the gig and sing a song about having a broken heart ?

Jeeez....

do you know anything about music and musicians ?

Come on kid...wake up and lighten up !

bob

Do you think Bob Dylan...a nice Jewish kid from Minnesota really grew up sounding like that ?

Yikes !

Whoa. Do you realize how contradictory that is? As Mike said earlier, it's plenty fine to dislike someone for whatever reason. If you think they're faking the intent of their recording or acting that's your opinion. However, an actor that can't act a part, it looks phony - thus fake. The same holds true for a musician. If a musician can't act the part for whatever reason, then it isn't going to move me and I'll just forget about them.

Also, being the Beatles nut you say you are, then you should be aware they did do certain things with the inflections of the voices for different songs. Here's several examples: Norwegian Wood, Maxwell's Silver Hammer, When I'm 64, and The Magical Mystery tour. All are totally different vibes and expressions. By your definition this would make the Beatles fake.

You know what all of this smacks of to me? The claims that autotune ruins the magic. What about doing multiple takes or tracks to figure out which performance was best for a record. That would also make people fake too. Or better yet, go see a band live, how many times do they "screw" up a song live? That would make them fake too wouldn't it? Or maybe, they changed the clothing they're wearing to suit a mood, that makes them fake cause they're not retaining the vision from the album cover... It goes on ad infinitum by your logic.

I propose this: Everyone is a FAKE, some just do it better than others. Does that work for you?

Jody

[This message has been edited by Whitesides (edited 04-01-2004).]

For the life of me, I've never understood why credibility in music matters so much to people. Performing music is no different that acting: you play characters, you tell a story. It's showbiz. It's a persona. Who cares if your accent is phony or not.

Alice Cooper routinely stages his own death onstage. Is he dishonest? Who cares.

Graham Lindsey is from Wisconsin, yet he sings with a haggard drawl that would make Ralph Stanley proud. Is he dishonest? Who cares. His music kicks ass, that's all anyone should care about.

If you're selling records and have fans, you win.

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Scott Andrew and the Walkingbirds
Lo-fi DIY acoustic pop
Hear it: http://www.scottandrew.com/main/music

Pattycakes, I appreciate your opinion but with all due respect, your logic is flawed. If we were to apply your logic to the world of music, no one could ever sing a song written by someone else because there is no way they could actually "feel" the song completely the way it was written. They'd have to apply their own filters and imagine how they would feel in that situation, then try to apply that to their performance.

In fact, this is exactly what they do - like actors, singers are performers. They interpret moods, feelings and indeed "characters" (in the songs) and try to convey them to their audience. Some are just a lot better than others at doing it.

For example, let's compare two versions of the same song, "How Do I Live." One version was released by Trisha Yearwood and the other version was released by Leann Rimes (neither one of them wrote the song btw).

Listen to these two versions and tell me who you think conveys the emotion and meaning of the song best. I think it's safe to say that both are comparable singers from a technical point of view but for my money, Trisha sings that song like she has felt those feelings before. Leann sings it like it's just another day on the job (yet technically sings it very well). And again, neither of them wrote it but only one of them can make me feel it.

Are either of them being phoney? I don't think so. One is just better than the other at tapping into the song's meaning and conveying it to me. The same is true of all performers. If they can make you *feel* it, they have done a great job regardless of how they did it. And in order to accomplish that, they have to pretend to be what they are not on some level. That is what separates the good ones from the great ones.

Kid? Thanks for the compliment (I'm a 38 year old mother of three).

I'm a singer and I'm not an actor playing a part, I'm telling a story using my own voice not adding a fake drawl or accent. My favorite writes and performers are most definitely not acting. I'll go so far as to agree that the people singing with a fake accent are actors...and that's the problem.

Seems you have a hard time distinguishing between the two. That's too bad.

Pattycakes-
The truth hurts don't it!
It's quite obvious, you are out numbered here.
You have not, and will never intimidate me-
Sorry, but you have not, and can't hurt my feelings-
Face the facts; and try living up to your comments- "be true to yourself,"and "HONEST."
You have accused me, and others, of things which are not true- I think it is the other way around-
You try to be a master manipulator- basing your unsound, incoherant, dribble, on your emotions, not fact- but are not very good at it. This is being self/serving and self/centered- at best; unrealistic.
Seems to me you thrive upon your double standards, as an avenue to profess your ideas.
Your the one who has insulted the public, and major successful artists by your off point comments- which in reality, are immature, and sarcastic.
Your beating a dead horse here-
Give up and save yourself the embarrasment.
If you wish to Tango, learn to dance-
If you wish to play with fire, you may get burned.

Good job all-

Cal

Oh Patty, I will give you credit for bringing
an interesting topic to the forum.
No hard feelings.
That's why they call it, "entertainment."

[This message has been edited by Cal (edited 04-01-2004).]

You don't have to fake an accent to feel or sing another persons song? When I sing a James Taylor or Billy Joel song my accent comes out, That's because it's my natural voice, I couldn't not avoid if I tried.

As far as Diane Warrens "How do I live" goes, lyrically not my favorite song (can anyone say Cliche) but I've Always liked Leann's version better, both the production and vocals. Neither one is faking an accent.

Some of my favorite performances of country music were recorded by Candian k. d. lang (during her "country" period), who decidedly does NOT have a Tennesee accent (she is from Alberta). But she put a lot of emotion into her voice. Roy Orbison thought she was one of the best singers he ever heard. I don't think her accent was why she was not very popular in the Nashville establishment.

On the other side, all the members of the '70s Swedish supergroup ABBA have very pronouced Swedish accents when speaking, but they worked very hard at sounding Standard American in their recordings, explicitly to increase record sales. But they also recorded many of their hits in French, German, Spanish, and Swedish for some local markets. They sound pretty accurate in those too.

Is it always this easy to get underneath your skin? My my my, don't let little OLE me bother you so much. R E L A X...

You missed the point. Both singers are interpreting someone else's emotions and applying it to their performance. In this sense, they are portraying something they are not. Okay, so maybe my point is lost in this respect so let me put this from a songwriter's point of view.

Do you think a songwriter can write about something he/she has never experienced and do a good job of conveying the mood, feeling, etc? Why or why not?

seriously... like scott said...

if the song kicks ass, who cares where it came from?

i mean the song could have *literally* been blown out of someone's ass... if the result sounds good in my ears - i'm going to enjoy the song.

lots of great art is the product of pure craft. often pure craft contains an element of artifice.

some country singers fake it and suck. some don't. some country singers don't fake it and still suck. some don't.

perhaps a bad country singer is made all the more unpalateable when they're also faking a bad accent. but when the good ones do it -- we probably don't even notice it.

i honestly didn't know until i read *this* thread that gillian welch wasn't from the south.

and what about ramblin' jack elliott? he was a new york kid who wanted to be a cowboy.

elvis presley was trying to sound black.

they were both faking it - but i'm gonna go ahead and like there records anyway. i think there can be a kind of honesty in making a character for yourself and making it real and your own.

maybe many of these country singers are trying to just make a buck off an annoying trend... but the fact that they see music as primarily a way to make a buck is the problem. not the accent.

it doesn't mean that everybody who invents a musical persona for themselves is a sell-out.

you know -- tom waits didn't fake an accent, but he definitely invented a film noir sort of barroom crooner persona for himself in his early years. he eventually had to quit because "the life" was too rough for him (or so he says).

was the music that he made during this period the music of a fake? or was it the music that someone makes when they are drawn to a certain aesthetic?

------------------
kit malone
http://www.kitmalone.com

Great singers are interpreters of songs. That is what they do. If you don't like a singer's interpretation, don't listen. The southern accent is a part of what makes country music what it is. It's not necessary, certainly, but a performer should do it the way he FEELS it. Anything else would be dishonest, doncha think? What is dishonest, in my opinion, is ranting about how other singers ply their trade, using loaded words like "dishonesty" and "faking," and holding yourself up as an example of the "right" way to do it. What a load.

A whole generation of British kids built rock and roll careers, and changed the world, by trying (and failing) to sing like Ray Charles and ELvis. But the music was pretty good, and lots of people liked it.

Jeez. So, I should not play a blues lick on my guitar unless I am a black man from Mississippi? It would be "dishonest?"

I should not write Bluegrass tunes unless I am from Appalachia, even though I love the music? That would be "faking it?"