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Well, I will humor your diatribe this once, since you are new. I spent an hour helping you figure out how to get registered, and then was nice enough to respond to your post with solid experience and consideration.
***THAT'S AN OUTRIGHT F**KING LIE, BRIAN.*** I emailed you personally back on Oct 5th, (copied below) politely asking if my research story was too long for your message board and was it the right place to catch good responses. I heard nothing back in 11 weeks, assuming a rejection. Fine. Then, out of the blue, obviously after you had read my whole thesis, on Dec 25th, you replied, INVITING me to join, (as copied below).
You wrote: "Our registration system is broken at the moment but I can help you manually".
So I sent you my details for registration, as requested; waited 8 days to be registered (dunno why it took you a fucking hour just to do that); greatly shortened my research thesis and added an introductory paragraph as requested; uploaded and then waited for something helpful (like some contact details for old folks around SF). I DID NOT ASK FOR contrarian disavowal of my post.
Instead, I got your raging self aggrandisement, panning my 4 years of investigative work plus and a lunatic off-topic pile-on from your forum acolytes who completely ignored my sincere and explicit request for research help. So don't be so disingenuous as to make me out as a stupid troll, conned by a mysterious scam, and yourself as some gracious saint. If you'd already read my thesis between Oct and Dec, and thought it s**t, why did you invite me to the forum only to be ridiculed by yourself and the clown gallery?
And, as I already told you, which you blatantly ignored, accusing me of having no evidence for my late 60s CA conjecture, Joel Selvin, 76yo, The SF Chronicle's music critic from 1970-2000 said it's "clearly generic 1968-1969 SF folk rock scene". And he should know. He was there. So who am I to argue. I am in Australia btw.
So your own assessment, as vast as it may be and steeped in massive ego attachment, is not, imo, as valid as his. I've also emailed: * Roy and Gaynell Rogers (born 1950, Redding, CA blues rock slide guitarist and record producer); * Alex Palao (one of the Bay Area's most notable collectors of 1960s rock and roll and soul music); * Pete Sennof (Atlantic Records Executive, LA 1973); -- all of whom, as CAL natives, also fingered Light the Lanterns as "that late 60s West Coast sound".
So if you want to HELP ME and MY MISSION, instead of making this whole thread about YOURSELF, send me some emails of 1960s West Coast musos, producers, sound engineers, folk club officionados ... as I requested in my opening paragraphs of this thread before the children got let loose. That's all you had to do to gain my respect.
Leave it up or pull it down. I truly don't give a f**k about you people.
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To: JP Folks <justplainnotes@gmail.com> Sat, Oct 5, 2024, 12:45 AM. From: Swami B. Saraswati
Hi Folks!
I want to ask if your forum would be an appropriate place to post the following item. I don't know your word limits or the user's likelihood to engage with my folk music research. If not suitable, could you please steer me to any other good places to post.
Thanks in advance.
Swami B. Saraswati.
‐-------------
From: JP Folks <justplainnotes@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2024 11:39:42 pm To: Swami O. Saraswati
Swami,
That is quite a tale. I know a few people still living from that era on the west coast. Can you give me a current link to the song, and a paragraph or two of the most important facts that summarize the song and research? The above is a lot to ask people to read who were around back then.
If you would like to sign up and post this on our message board, give me your desired user name, preferred email and a password you want to use to initially log in on our message board.
There is no (rational) limit to text there, but having a summary at the top is the best way to get help. They can then decide to read further then offer their help.
Our registration system is broken at the moment but I can help you manually.
Brian Brian Austin Whitney Founder/CEO Just Plain Folks Music Organization
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On Wed, Dec 25, 2024, 7:58 PM Swami B. Saraswati wrote:
Hey Brian. Thanks for your reply. Will reply soon.
I did post to SF Folk Club but got zero feedback. No 80, 70, 60 year oldies there!
Happy Christmas. Back soon.
Swami.
From: JP Folks <justplainnotes@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2025 4:40:41 pm To: Swami O. Saraswati Subject: Re: Mystery Song
Swami,
Our site has been around since the dawn of the internet. We have mostly 50+ users at this point. You'd be perfect. We are 100% free, just people having fun making music!
Brian
Thanks,
You just proved my point. You know so little about me that you just keep digging your hole deeper. At the end of each year, I go back through all accounts to see if any emails were missed. I found a couple, one was yours. It was in our SPAM folder which I usually check about once every month or two because it is rare anything valid is there. But due to health issues, I had not been able to check it since the end of summer. I spent over an hour: reading, then replying, reading your response, then getting you registered manually and letting you know.
So where is the lie? Perhaps you have more free time to spend, but I do not. I went out of my way to pluck you out of SPAM and correspond and then due to the unresolved tech issue, I had to go into coding to add you account. I doubt you could do it faster, unless maybe you are a high level programmer which I am not. So again, you're the guy who attacked me for telling the truth about who I am, what my experience is, and then offering you my thoughts on the age and possible source. Since you haven't found the origin, you have ZERO proof I am not exactly correct. You have zero EVIDENCE showing dates or locations and you called a rock band song a "folk" song of an era where most folk music wasn't even electric. That is not a folk song in any traditional sense. I think you are barking up the wrong trees. I don't care if you disagree, I already knew your opinion. What is your long set of experience that surpasses mine? Have you heard more music? No. Have you seen more live performances? No. Have you toured 39 countries and met and performed with and presented artists in those places? No. Have you overseen the largest music awards programs ever conducted in world history? No. So why is your opinion more valid than mine? There is only 1 way, and I brought that way up. You would be more valid if, and only if, you already knew the source before you came here. That would mean either you were the original poster, or it was music you were involved in in the first place. If that WERE true, then you are simply trolling people for attention. But it still isn't a folk song. It is not in a 60s style, and really nothing ties it to the 70s either. Most studios had better quality and only rich kids or adults or pros had recording gear pre-1980s. And those people on that recording were not pros. So either hobbyist adults, kids or someone doing a quick practice copy of a song for people to easily learn from, likely on a 4 track or bounced from cassette decks.
I am also waiting for you to easily produce all of these people who clearly have heard lots more music than I have. Since you so negatively attacked my claim, it is up to you to support it with proof. I would love to find all these people with more experience to compare notes with. Point them out. If not, you have acknowledged you were in the wrong.
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@gmail.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks
"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney
"Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
Just close my account Brian, remove my whole thread. You and some on this forum are so toxic that I feel like I need a shower to wash off this last week of my life.
Just close my account Brian, remove my whole thread. You and some on this forum are so toxic that I feel like I need a shower to wash off this last week of my life.
As long as you understand that everyone here was just waiting for THIS...
Originally Posted by Swami
Brian, thanks for your well meaning response. But I have to take up arguments (just the once) against many of your points. To wit:
>>> I have listened to perhaps more music than any other human from more different artists, genres, countries and universes.<<<
Gosh, such omnipotence immediately bristles with chronic arogance. It is not a matter of breadth of listening history Brian, but specificity of period style, genre, place and recognition of this particular track/voice/players that I seek. I just can't believe anyone over 70 cannot recognise this as ~late 60s ~SF. Joel Selvin, 76yo, The SF Chronicle's music critic from 1970-2000 said it's "clearly generic 1968-1969 SF folk rock scene". And he should know. He was there. So who am I to argue.
>>>My opinion is this is circa 1986-1996 done on either a 4 track cassette recorder or far more likely a live band practice into a two track cassette recorder. Having recorded over 2000 songs in that era using that equipment including , it sounds pretty much like what results people were getting.
>>>It was the first surge of DIY recording gear. <<<
Not in 1986 it wasnt. Our schoolboy garage band collectively owned a Tascam 2340 (4 track, 4 chan x 7.5" reels) in 1972 (first out in 1968). We mixed and dubbed down to mono cassettes for demo distribution, exactly as I suspect for Light the Lanterns. Or a real studio was used for a 4 or maybe 8 track master which was then mixed down and copied for some demo cassettes.
>>> I first thought live practice tape (which it could be) but there is an effects pedal sound in the background which might indicate a separate track recording, but truthfully it sounds live. It sounds like a simple rough live band recording and I am pretty confident it is NOT session players (if it was, she got robbed). <<<
It is beyond comprehension that you imagine this was a live recording. Just too silly to discuss.
>>>To me this sounds like an amateur band, with a girlfriend singing ( I was in a LOT of those bands), or simply a pretty average singer fronting a rookie/hobbyist level band. <<<
That could indeed be true. But also, someone was the songwriter. Are you trying to tell me those poetic hippie lyrics were written in 1986-1996. Lol. And who in in their right mind would record such song demo in 86-96 hoping to break into commercial success. Don't make me laugh, Brian.
But, were it late 60s, as I maintain, session players need not have been virtuosos in that acoustic-to-electric folk crossover period. Take away their subsequent fame and growth -- Were the Beatles, the Byrds, Jefferson Airplane, Dylan, Baez, Peter Paul & Mary anything but rookies in their early years? When I suggested session players, I imagined "cheapies" for an unheard-of young vocalist to cut a 3 min demo to hawk around talent agents. Besides, pro-sessionists do not play their complicated best unless the song requires it. This is a simple song with simple backing and production ... for the girl, imo.
What makes me think it is not a unified band, is that the chick singer is mixed right up front, with the lovely sensitive slide guitarist NOT playing guitar hero for his ego. SHE and the story and the supportive instrumental harmonies (and slidey bass) is the star.
Besides, I don't know, (or care), why you are judgjng, this track outside of what it actually is. I didn't ask you to like it, or grade it for Top 10, or pan its simplicity. I just wanted some links into its possible cultural history. In short, you've been bloody useless. You could just have posted "I'll pass your post on to some others who might help".
>>> I also think it could easily have been anywhere in the USA. <<<
So you "think" that. What evidence -- by ear or local storyline -- do you have to back up such an assertion? As well, if you consider the singer's accent, it's hardly Tennessee, Florida, NY, Texas, Boston, Idaho, Montana! I was told by a linguist it is classic "General American", (soft rhotic style) "a nondescript, possibly West Coast, but definitely pre Valley Girl influence".
>>>Additionally, I think the person who uploaded is enjoying the attention and has no reason to ruin it by coming forward. <<<
Again, you "think" that. Well, your unfounded suspicions do not match at all with the honest and sincere nature of the original uploader -- with whom I and others have emailed over the years about the tape's provenance. He is/was a musician but of a totally different style and instrumention to this track. He pulled down his original site years ago.
Fyi, noone gains from the attention of this song. It's has a small cult following on YouTube by lovers of the song. Also, if some mediocre chick singer-songwriter once wrote and recorded this, why would she not these days be self-producing her songs as an indie muso, like so other many wannabes. Your "thinking" is nonsensical.
>>>The song itself would never garner interest without the mystery and hype attached. Most of those "mystery" songs have been uploaded by the very people who first say "who is this" to get web hits, clicks and views.<<<
This is, once again, a cynical and unfounded supposition. Many folks have made such accusations about the Lost Wave mysterious songs over the years, and some may well be PR fake. But that does not make this one fake. And what exactly is your research proving "most of them"? You've debunked 50% of their claims, have you? Fyi, "Like the Wind", took some 17 years to solve from a single demo play on a German Radio station in 1983. The original writers and band members were astounded by their eventual discovery just last year. "Light the Lanterns" may have a similar fate ... or this singer may be long time dead.
>>>And if you think my initial claims are exaggerated, I would LOVE to meet the person who has even come close to what I have heard over the past 40 years!<<<
Un-fkn-believable Brian. Such chutzpah causes me to block any more unhelpful posts from you. I have explained and argued my case for some 4 years now against many doubters, and only want practical input to further objective research in a clearly defined direction. You are welcome NOT to join that search. In which case, don't piss in my pocket. I clearly stated "How Can You Help?" But no, you just shat on someone's sincere hobby project. So maybe your forum is not the place to expect any serious and helpful input to my research ... judging by the other nutty replies of the last few days. You are welcome to delete my post and my membership. I'm out.
And PS. I couldn't believe how quickly "my" thread got hijacked by a bunch of ADHDs into completely off-topic raves. I'm certainly not a forum nazi (I've run a few myself, so I understand the nature of topic entropy). But if that's the quality of member self-awareness and engagement ... it's sayonara.
YOU WERE BEING TESTED! YOU FAILED! AND THIS WAS ONLY YOUR SECOND POST!
You jumped the gun... You tipped your hand... Everything was fine and in good humor until you lost your cool... in only your second post.
You obviously came here intent upon stirring up $h!t... Congrats. Yes, please... take a shower... I can smell your manpussy from Alabama!
Really sounds like a publicity gag, create interest with the ultimate goal of bringing traffic to yourself, tried the same thing here.
Somebody been reading books on how to market your music.
There were maybe 20 replies on YouTube, so it worked to some extent, but like to know who those people responding were. Doubtful they were random people zooming in with billions of other videos to watch.
Just close my account Brian, remove my whole thread. You and some on this forum are so toxic that I feel like I need a shower to wash off this last week of my life.
As long as you understand that everyone here was just waiting for THIS...
Originally Posted by Swami
Brian, thanks for your well meaning response. But I have to take up arguments (just the once) against many of your points. To wit:
>>> I have listened to perhaps more music than any other human from more different artists, genres, countries and universes.<<<
Gosh, such omnipotence immediately bristles with chronic arogance. It is not a matter of breadth of listening history Brian, but specificity of period style, genre, place and recognition of this particular track/voice/players that I seek. I just can't believe anyone over 70 cannot recognise this as ~late 60s ~SF. Joel Selvin, 76yo, The SF Chronicle's music critic from 1970-2000 said it's "clearly generic 1968-1969 SF folk rock scene". And he should know. He was there. So who am I to argue.
>>>My opinion is this is circa 1986-1996 done on either a 4 track cassette recorder or far more likely a live band practice into a two track cassette recorder. Having recorded over 2000 songs in that era using that equipment including , it sounds pretty much like what results people were getting.
>>>It was the first surge of DIY recording gear. <<<
Not in 1986 it wasnt. Our schoolboy garage band collectively owned a Tascam 2340 (4 track, 4 chan x 7.5" reels) in 1972 (first out in 1968). We mixed and dubbed down to mono cassettes for demo distribution, exactly as I suspect for Light the Lanterns. Or a real studio was used for a 4 or maybe 8 track master which was then mixed down and copied for some demo cassettes.
>>> I first thought live practice tape (which it could be) but there is an effects pedal sound in the background which might indicate a separate track recording, but truthfully it sounds live. It sounds like a simple rough live band recording and I am pretty confident it is NOT session players (if it was, she got robbed). <<<
It is beyond comprehension that you imagine this was a live recording. Just too silly to discuss.
>>>To me this sounds like an amateur band, with a girlfriend singing ( I was in a LOT of those bands), or simply a pretty average singer fronting a rookie/hobbyist level band. <<<
That could indeed be true. But also, someone was the songwriter. Are you trying to tell me those poetic hippie lyrics were written in 1986-1996. Lol. And who in in their right mind would record such song demo in 86-96 hoping to break into commercial success. Don't make me laugh, Brian.
But, were it late 60s, as I maintain, session players need not have been virtuosos in that acoustic-to-electric folk crossover period. Take away their subsequent fame and growth -- Were the Beatles, the Byrds, Jefferson Airplane, Dylan, Baez, Peter Paul & Mary anything but rookies in their early years? When I suggested session players, I imagined "cheapies" for an unheard-of young vocalist to cut a 3 min demo to hawk around talent agents. Besides, pro-sessionists do not play their complicated best unless the song requires it. This is a simple song with simple backing and production ... for the girl, imo.
What makes me think it is not a unified band, is that the chick singer is mixed right up front, with the lovely sensitive slide guitarist NOT playing guitar hero for his ego. SHE and the story and the supportive instrumental harmonies (and slidey bass) is the star.
Besides, I don't know, (or care), why you are judgjng, this track outside of what it actually is. I didn't ask you to like it, or grade it for Top 10, or pan its simplicity. I just wanted some links into its possible cultural history. In short, you've been bloody useless. You could just have posted "I'll pass your post on to some others who might help".
>>> I also think it could easily have been anywhere in the USA. <<<
So you "think" that. What evidence -- by ear or local storyline -- do you have to back up such an assertion? As well, if you consider the singer's accent, it's hardly Tennessee, Florida, NY, Texas, Boston, Idaho, Montana! I was told by a linguist it is classic "General American", (soft rhotic style) "a nondescript, possibly West Coast, but definitely pre Valley Girl influence".
>>>Additionally, I think the person who uploaded is enjoying the attention and has no reason to ruin it by coming forward. <<<
Again, you "think" that. Well, your unfounded suspicions do not match at all with the honest and sincere nature of the original uploader -- with whom I and others have emailed over the years about the tape's provenance. He is/was a musician but of a totally different style and instrumention to this track. He pulled down his original site years ago.
Fyi, noone gains from the attention of this song. It's has a small cult following on YouTube by lovers of the song. Also, if some mediocre chick singer-songwriter once wrote and recorded this, why would she not these days be self-producing her songs as an indie muso, like so other many wannabes. Your "thinking" is nonsensical.
>>>The song itself would never garner interest without the mystery and hype attached. Most of those "mystery" songs have been uploaded by the very people who first say "who is this" to get web hits, clicks and views.<<<
This is, once again, a cynical and unfounded supposition. Many folks have made such accusations about the Lost Wave mysterious songs over the years, and some may well be PR fake. But that does not make this one fake. And what exactly is your research proving "most of them"? You've debunked 50% of their claims, have you? Fyi, "Like the Wind", took some 17 years to solve from a single demo play on a German Radio station in 1983. The original writers and band members were astounded by their eventual discovery just last year. "Light the Lanterns" may have a similar fate ... or this singer may be long time dead.
>>>And if you think my initial claims are exaggerated, I would LOVE to meet the person who has even come close to what I have heard over the past 40 years!<<<
Un-fkn-believable Brian. Such chutzpah causes me to block any more unhelpful posts from you. I have explained and argued my case for some 4 years now against many doubters, and only want practical input to further objective research in a clearly defined direction. You are welcome NOT to join that search. In which case, don't piss in my pocket. I clearly stated "How Can You Help?" But no, you just shat on someone's sincere hobby project. So maybe your forum is not the place to expect any serious and helpful input to my research ... judging by the other nutty replies of the last few days. You are welcome to delete my post and my membership. I'm out.
And PS. I couldn't believe how quickly "my" thread got hijacked by a bunch of ADHDs into completely off-topic raves. I'm certainly not a forum nazi (I've run a few myself, so I understand the nature of topic entropy). But if that's the quality of member self-awareness and engagement ... it's sayonara.
YOU WERE BEING TESTED! YOU FAILED! AND THIS WAS ONLY YOUR SECOND POST!
You jumped the gun... You tipped your hand... Everything was fine and in good humor until you lost your cool... in only your second post.
You obviously came here intent upon stirring up $h!t... Congrats. Yes, please... take a shower... I can smell your manpussy from Alabama!
I actually laughed out loud when reading this. I agree that in the long tradition of funny responses to a post out of left field, I didn't see any mean spirited posts or comments until he jumped in himself.
I do find something super odd. Why is it when people are unhappy on a site, that they don't just stop coming to the site? I get these requests "please delete my account" which is simply bizarre to me. No one else can use this guys account. If he simply stops coming around, it is exactly the same result as deleting his account. He simply stops posting and people move on. I have had people tell me they have no self control and I must delete their account to keep them from continuing to post. But in those ridiculous cases, I just go in an change their password so they can't get in. But that STILL isn't enough for many of them. They keep coming back, (they used to make new accounts) and then continue to complain. It is all just so weird to me. I used to get one of these scenarios every couple years.
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@gmail.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks
"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney
"Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
Brian, Don't you have the ability to check for duplicate domains? Duplicate domains would mean multiple accounts from the same source...
I didn't get a flag. Duplicate IPs used to be a thing, but now people have stagnant IPs so for example, if 2 or more people from one building or home are on a site, it would have been a problem so I think that flag was long ago removed. I only vaguely recalled that when you brought it up. I don't care enough to research it. I think the IPs used to show up here on every post but like I said, that is the old days.
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@gmail.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks
"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney
"Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
And PS. I couldn't believe how quickly "my" thread got hijacked by a bunch of ADHDs into completely off-topic raves. I'm certainly not a forum nazi (I've run a few myself, so I understand the nature of topic entropy). But if that's the quality of member self-awareness and engagement ... it's sayonara.
YOU WERE BEING TESTED! YOU FAILED! AND THIS WAS ONLY YOUR SECOND POST!
You jumped the gun... You tipped your hand... Everything was fine and in good humor until you lost your cool... in only your second post.
You obviously came here intent upon stirring up $h!t... Congrats. Yes, please... take a shower... I can smell your manpussy from Alabama!
I actually laughed out loud when reading this. I agree that in the long tradition of funny responses to a post out of left field, I didn't see any mean spirited posts or comments until he jumped in himself.
I do find something super odd. Why is it when people are unhappy on a site, that they don't just stop coming to the site? I get these requests "please delete my account" which is simply bizarre to me. No one else can use this guys account. If he simply stops coming around, it is exactly the same result as deleting his account. He simply stops posting and people move on. I have had people tell me they have no self control and I must delete their account to keep them from continuing to post. But in those ridiculous cases, I just go in an change their password so they can't get in. But that STILL isn't enough for many of them. They keep coming back, (they used to make new accounts) and then continue to complain. It is all just so weird to me. I used to get one of these scenarios every couple years.
*" I have had people tell me they have no self control and I must delete their account to keep them from continuing to post. "*
Lol... BTW... Would you please balance my checkbook, monitor my carbs, and limit my adult content while you're at it?
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"I left my home, only to find a new home, full of heart, soul and dreams. Then, I left that new home, heart intact, but much stronger and energized from the experience" -Brian Austin Whitney
