JPF Home Page Forums Lyric and MP3 Feedback MP3 Feedback Forum Unappeciated

A couple of days ago I posted a song of mine where I used a new software that generated the vocals of the song. There was a lot of interest in that software, but many of you mentioned they would probably use it only for backing vocals. I found the backing vocal idea interesting and wanted to try what Synth V would sound like as a backing vocal generator. Here’s a song I wrote with Carroll Kiphen called “Unappreciated” where I used Synth V for all the locals. Solaria is the lead voice and Solaria and Kevin sing the backing vocals. You can find the lyrics at Soundclick. Feedback is always appreciated.

https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=14017362

All the best - Robert

I've never found a good way to give a negative critique. They always sound negative.

This is actually quite catchy, although it'd need a fuller arrangement to be pitchable.

However, the lyric is so weak it kills the song. Wait until you have a memorable title, then write TO that hook. Make your bridge a pithy couplet that sums it all up, or resolves it.

If your idea doesn't easily lend itself to development in the 2nd verse and a bridge, you don't have an idea.

And avoid complaining, if at all possible, unless you go the route of Before He Cheats...witty etc. This ain't that.

Hey Couch,
thanks for the feedback.
This was a quick and dirty song. I don't pitch songs anymore. I just have fun composing and recording. I agree with you about the arrangement. I'll forward your thoughts to the lyricist. Funny, my wife could relate to the lyrics of this song. When I let her listen I thought ... upps.

All the best
Robert

In many of these forums I think the importance of the lyrics are overrated. i mean, just look at some of those big hit songs.

R.E.M. / Shinny Happy People
Everyone around, love them, love them/Put it in your hands, take it, take it/There's no time to cry, happy, happy
Put it in your heart where tomorrow shines/Gold and silver shine

Right Said Fred / I'm Too Sexy
I'm too sexy for my shirt

Beach Boys / Kokomo
Aruba, Jamaica, oh I want to take ya/Bermuda, Bahama, come on pretty mama/Key Largo, Montego, baby why don't we go, Jamaica.

The Killers / Human
Are we humans? Or are we dancer?

Bruno Mars / Grenade
You should’ve known you was trouble
From the first kiss
Had your eyes wide open
Why were they open?

Justin Bieber / Boyfriend
Swag, swag, swag on you. Chillin’ by the fire while we eatin’ fondue

"Chillin' by the fire and eating' fondue"? I don't know. You guys tell me how important lyrics really are and why these songs became big hits.

Robert

I enjoy the song.
It's a housewife's POV. That POV may be a bit anachronistic in 2023. Inasmuch as I've never been one, it's not totally relatable for me.
But I liked the tune and movement.

Melody and lead vox make me recall the Petula Clark era.
If I had not been told that it was AI singing, I would have no way of knowing.
The vocal is a little "shrill" for my tastes but completely convincing.

Good job guys

Marty

Hi Marty,
thanks for the feedback. My wife could relate to the message of Carrol's lyrics which is not good for me. I actually did want to make it a bit shrill because SHE is mad, and trying drill her message into HIS brain. You can't achieve that with a sexy, airy, passionate vocal. You can adjust all that in Synth V.

All the best
Robert

The lyrics below belong to one of the biggest charting songs in the history of country per what I read.
I thought about posting them here and claiming credit, just to see what sort of babble would come back.
I didn't because the songwriters deserve better than to have me trifling with their work.
I love the song. Learned it so that I could cover it. It is a 3 chord loop start to finish.
My personal opinion is that it is an unassuming form of genius.


Last night we let the liquor talk
I can't remember everything we said, but we said it all
You told me that you wish I was somebody you never met
But baby, baby, something's tellin' me this ain't over yet
No way it was our last night
I kiss your lips
Make you grip the sheets with your fingertips
Last bottle of Jack, we split a fifth
Just talk about life goin' sip for sip, yeah
You, you know you love to fight
And I say [naughty word removed], I don't mean
But I'm still gon' wake up wantin' you and me
I know that last night we let the liquor talk
I can't remember everything we said, but we said it all
You told me that you wish I was somebody you never met
But baby, baby, something's tellin' me this ain't over yet
No way it was our last night (last night, last night)
No way it was our last night (last night, last night)
No way it was the last night that we break up
I see your tail lights in the dust
You call your momma, I call your bluff
In the middle of the night, pull it right back up
Yeah, my, my friends say, "Let her go"
Your friends say, "What the hell?"
I wouldn't trade your kind of love for nothin' else
Oh, baby, last night we let the liquor talk
I can't remember everything we said, but we said it all
You told me that you wish I was somebody you never met
But baby, baby, something's tellin' me this ain't over yet
No way it was our last night, we said we'd had enough
I can't remember everything we said, but we said too much
I know you packed your [naughty word removed] and slammed the door right before you left
But baby, baby, something's tellin' me this ain't over yet
No way it was our last night (last night, last night)
No way it was our last night (last night, last night)
I know you said this time you really weren't coming back again
But baby, baby, something's tellin' me this ain't over yet
No way it was our last night (last night, last night)
No way it was our last night (last night, last night)

Marty,
I have to admit I've never heard that Morgan Wallen song before. Country is not popular at all here in Germany. Great song. Simple instrumentation. Nothing complex to it. Great presentation. Vocals have some kind of doubling effect that sounds really cool. The lyrics are cool too. In general I'd say that country songs are more the kind of story telling songs than pop or rock songs are. In my opinion, lyrics have a greater importance in country than they do in pop or rock. But I'm sure a lot of people, especially lyricists, will disagree with me.

The main question is, can a song with weak lyrics become a hit. Definitely yes. I posted a few examples above that show, at least in the pop genre, lyrics don't matter that much. Living in Europe, we are exposed to different music styles and different languages. Every now and then a song from Hungry, Bulgaria, France, Spain, etc. will make it big in the charts. Most people don't speak the language and have no idea what the song is about but nevertheless those songs can become top 10 hits.

Rob,

Over fifty years later...

I still can't tell you precisely what the message is in STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN. I'm not sure that there was ever a truly cohesive and self-evident message to the lyrics. To bad LZ could not have posted the lyrics here for feedback in the 1960s. The song would be so much better than as it stands.

To some extent myself and others on these song forums can recite basic do(s) and don't(s) of grammar, literature and songwriting.

But mostly, what we can tell you is how we would have written your song in accordance with our own sensibilities.
Every so often, someone comments on something that truly makes me stop and think or brings forward some beneficial knowledge such as you did regarding AI.

Those artists are performing bands, and they have a multitude if ways of reaching a listener.

The band, the singers voice, the attitude, the vibe, the production, the visual look, the dancing, the movement.

It's not just the song.

As a songwriter you have melody and lyric to work with.

Shiny happy people sings very well, it's an interesting phrase , it sounds great, and becomes another piece of the whole.

The sound of the words I think matter as much S the meaning.

And btw, lyrics don't have to mean anything, the can function as just another sound in the mix.

Try tewriting lyrics to those songs, I guarantee it's not as good

Stairway to heaven might not mean a damn thing , cold mean something to some biody.

By it it's highly poetic, and no pun intended, makes you wonder .

If a song can make you wonder, its good.

Songs that tell a story are much more important for lyrics.

But all hit songs however simple have some catchy sounding phrases that sells them.

Don't poo poo lyrics, they matter alot

Interesting that the AI voice works better in the chorus than in the verses, at least in my opinion. I think this is because it's easier to produce a satisfactory result when she's belting out the hook rather than in the more laid back, expressive sections.

I disagree with Couch about the need always to stick to a rigid formula when writing songs and to automatically consider anything else defective. However, I agree with him about a song that just complains. This lyric is not bad in my opinion but could benefit from a twist of some kind, something to provoke a wry smile. There's a bit of that here, but I can't help feeling we needed to see her leave him to fend for himself for a while with disastrous results or something along those lines.

Some of those songs you mention actually have good lyrics when you hear them with the melody, especially the REM song. It looks silly on the page but is effective when sung. And then the brilliant hook - "Shiny happy people holding hands." It's not the meaning, it's the visual and the fact it's fun to sing. The fun comes from the repetition of sounds. There's the "y" in Shiny and happy, then the "p" in happy and people, and the "h" in happy and holding. There's more to a good lyric than its meaning. I think sometimes songwriters do this unintentionally but then instinctively know they have something that works. Compare that hook to "Unappreciated." I'm not trying to be mean about Carroll's lyric or hook - none of us here are REM

Marty,
I'm very grateful for every piece of feedback that I get from others. The thing with this song and a few of my others is, they are collab songs. I created the music around someone's lyrics. When I do that, I try to leave the lyrics the way they were originally written. Of course, when I have major issues we jointly discuss them and together we find solutions. When I post one of these collab songs here and get comments regarding the lyrics, well ... I'm the wrong address. I try to avoid discussing things I'm not responsible for. In this case I know Carroll is following this thread. If he chooses not to participate, that's his decision and i respect that. All I can say is that I fell in love with these lines and my wife confirms that they are spot on. Since the lyrics are generated with AI I can easily change lines, if Carroll finds something better. I don't need to make any new recordings.

It's interesting that so many people here don't like his lyrics. The funny thing is, he's finding loads of top-notch musicians, songwriters and producers who create beautiful songs around his lyrics. That shows me, he's pretty good at it.

Again, thank you for the feedback and the open discussion.

All the best - Robert

It sure does.

Hey Rob,
With a few minor tweaks, I think this would be a great challenge for your AI girl...

https://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbth...arts-still-living-there.html#Post1189248

I think as long as Marty stays off the motorcycle, and on his meds, well all be fine

Hi Tony,
you pointed me to a very strong lyric. In my opinion it has country written all over it. That's not my cup of tea.

I don't do music challenges anymore. I'm too old for that kind of stuff. I have enough challenges in my life.

Hi Gavin,
the reason the voice sounds better in the chorus is because Solaria is singing together with Kevin there. If you listen closely, you can hear a male background voice. He’s in the bridge section as well and in the backing vocals (ooh) too.

I agree with you on your lyric thoughts. That explains why songs in foreign languages become hits. Nobody understands a single word. If the phrase is catchy people will sing along or try to sing along. These past years a bunch of Spanish songs have made to the no. one spot in the charts here. Sometimes I ask myself, what in the world is this song about. If you translate the lyrics, who knows, maybe they are singing “Tiptoe through the window – By the window, that is where I’ll be – Come tiptoe through the tulips with me”.

All the best - Robert

Hi Rob,

I love the bouncy Vince Guaraldi feel in the piano, and the song overall.

What the lyric lacks in "clever" is made up for in great prosody and direct, earnest communication, which can work in genres other than Country and Broadway such as folk and pop. This is more Piano Pop, so for me it works fine.

Love all the singing.

Good stuff!

Mike

I'm not sure that it's just the presence of Kevin, although that might be part of it. I think it has to do with the fact that a chorus is typically sung with less subtlety of expression, more about belting out the catchy hook, and this lends itself better to the AI. I'm not saying that it doesn't work for the verses, just that it's hard to capture that expressiveness naturally.