JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum AI taking over

I totally get where you are coming from, Marty...

IMHO I believe the issue today is size and speed which confuses many people. Philippides ran the marathon to bring the good news to Athens...it took him a few hours ....when I was a kid we got the news on the one channel at five o'clock...today we have billions of news people giving us instant reporting on billions of things happening all at once....this allows the conspiracy folk (left and right) to spin their deceit as if it is news...up next AI

Steve

Nyet, nyet, nyet comrade Ton-isk-y

I actually am. Your search for the truth is limited to a universe of FOX news as evidenced by your instruction for me simply to tune in and receive "the truth." (See prior post).

In this burgeoning new Orwellian reality you may be well suited for employment at the "Ministry of Truth." Keep an eye out for job postings


the other...Shakespeare...I think that it reads..."She doeth protest too much, methinks." Check me.

There you go again Marty, putting words in my mouth...


The only one I have ever commended for always being absolutely correct is JESUS.

Isn't that precisely the game today, Marty? He who controls the dissemination and accuracy of information rules the world. Ultimately, isn't that what AI is all about?

If you can program a computer to regurgitate verbatim, you can certainly program it to lie.

The human race has already proven itself to be stupid enough to fall for it...

Tell him to post something.

And I watch your words that show up on the screen.

Seems to me, that has to be the case.
They still need the armed forces to back it up.

While we wait for Jesus to get Tony's request, I asked ChatGPT to give it a go:

My prompt: Write an imaginative piece of fiction where Jesus suddenly appears in a chat forum known as "Just Plain Folks" and proves He's Jesus by actually having Jesus simultaneously enter into all the members' hearts, then says things that completely eliminate the barriers between Democrats and Republicans, making them realize they have more in common than they thought. Please put these things that Jesus says into the writing. Make it compelling. In the style of Ernest Hemingway.

ChatGPT's Story:

Jesus materialized on the screen of the chat forum "Just Plain Folks," leaving the members startled and wondering if it was an elaborate hoax. He knew what they were thinking, and He immediately entered into all their hearts, proving His identity as Jesus Christ.

"Listen to me, my children," Jesus spoke in a commanding voice that held their attention, "why do you fight and argue? Your political differences divide you, but you're all just plain folks trying to make your way in the world. You want safety, security, and a better life for your families. But you've lost sight of the essential fact that you're all human beings and children of God."

The members were caught off guard by the truth of His words. It was as if He knew them better than they knew themselves. But it wasn't enough to convince them to drop their guard just yet.

One skeptic typed, "We can't just forget our differences. They're too deep-seated."

Jesus replied, "Your differences are not insurmountable. You can work together to achieve your goals if you let go of the hatred and the fear that divides you. You must learn to listen to each other with empathy and understanding, and see the humanity in one another."

A few members were beginning to take notice of Jesus's words, but most remained skeptical. Then Jesus dropped a bombshell.

"Your political leaders have misled you. They've made you believe that your differences are irreconcilable, that the other side is your enemy. But I tell you, they serve only themselves and not the greater good. They have betrayed you, and they have betrayed God."

At that moment, the members' skepticism began to wane, and their curiosity peaked. Who was this man who spoke with such authority, and how did He know so much about them?

Jesus continued, "You must find a way to work together, to bridge your differences, and to forge a new path forward. Only then can you achieve true peace and prosperity for all."

The members of the chat forum were stunned by His words, and many began to feel a glimmer of hope. Could it be that they had been wrong about each other all along? Could they really work together to make a better world?

As suddenly as He appeared, Jesus vanished, leaving the members to ponder His words and their own beliefs. But His message stayed with them, and they knew that they would never forget the day Jesus Christ entered their hearts and challenged them to become better versions of themselves.
As they looked back on that day when Jesus appeared in their chat room, they knew that something incredible had happened. They had been given a gift, a reminder that even in the midst of division and strife, there is always hope for unity and understanding.

***********************************************************************************************************************

With further prompting I could get the AI to improve on this in various ways as it still has a kind of 5th Grader feel: not very compelling, a bit naive, grandiose and earnest without enough Ernest...

But perhaps AI is neither "good" nor "bad" --just what humans decide to use it for?

And I dare any Christian to find any fault in the words the AI puts into Jesus' mouth. Or perhaps some will want to make a case that Jesus would encourage divisiveness?

Lol... Even though my "human" self likes the story, my "spirit" self understands that God doesn't go where He's not invited...

"""But perhaps AI is neither "good" nor "bad" --just what humans decide to use it for?"""
The irony is, that's precisely how most intellectualize God down to their own level...

Interesting effort though

The skeptical secular view of the Old Testament is that "God" was fashioned in the image of bronze age kings.
Kingdom of God, king of kings, kingdom of heaven, heavenly kingdom, heavenly throne, etc
There is a case to be made that "they wrote what they knew" when they created a God and HIS image.
Genesis made no mention of billions of galaxies, just dominion over what was visible to a mortal eye at the time...but it could have.

It could have read...
"BTW...the night sky collectively referred to as "the heavens" is actually billions of stars each such as the sun (gigantuan burning fireballs) and also there are other complete galaxies. Billions of them."

Genesis also divided nights into days seemingly before nights and days existed.
There is a case to be made that all of this is the flip side of the same coin that is in quotes above.

I wasn't there to see any of this happen. Neither were you.

Read Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy again... Those people knew precisely how many generations they were removed from Adam and Eve. So, belief in God was not a matter of faith... it was a given.

Of course the "skeptical secular view" is contradictory... what else would it be?

Read Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy again... Those people knew precisely how many generations they were removed from Adam and Eve. So, belief in God was not a matter of faith... it was a given.

Not true...we only believe by faith

Tell that to Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel... Noah...

Don't you see, Steve? That's the progression running through the entire Bible. The more "time" separated man from God, the more necessary Christ and the gifts of the Spirit became. We now live in an age of grace, but God never went anywhere. Consider the time of king Nimrod (the birth of Babylon) and how he tried to build a tower tall enough to challenge God directly... Rebellion requires commitment, not faith; And will ultimately culminate with Armageddon.

God has always been faithful to bless those who seek Him with a Spirit of clarity and righteousness. Christ put an exclamation point on that because we were so far removed. You're not wrong to say,"we only believe by faith", but that faith has always been a "gift"... a reward. You cannot claim that faith by your own will.

Lol... The obvious miracle that everyone takes for granted is the Spirit that has perpetuated this never ending argument throughout the ages

I have looked into that. The most convincing source that I have found presented a face value case that there were multiple inconsistencies (non-sequiturs) in the timelines of Abraham and his descendants as presented in the OT. I could cite the source for you but there is no possibility that you would read it....so I'm wont waste my time or yours.

Ricky Gervais turned the overall biblical timeline issue into a question...."What about the dinosaurs?"


The "ages" is about 5 millennia. Is war a miracle also?

Timeline... Dinosaurs... LOL

Marty, I truly wish God would present Himself here on JPF so you could ask Him precisely how and when He created the universe... but I doubt you would understand the answers.

I wonder, would you be fool enough to argue with Him?

I would ask God more pertinent questions... Like, what will be my purpose for the rest of eternity? Why is the universe so huge? Is there truly no hope for those souls in Hell? Does Satan truly rule down there, or is he just another victim of his own arrogance?

I would not argue, but if HE could not produce a valid form of identification, then I'd need to see a couple of undeniable miracles performed, before I started with "big why" questions. There have been many pretenders.

As for questions in the here and now....The Stoics have one that has been paraphrased...

If you could have been contacted and conversed with by a governing being (call it an angel) before you were born and the conversation went:

Angel
Hey unborn being that could be named Tony! Would you like to be born and brought to life for a few decades, enveloped in human form?

Unborn Tony
Yes I would. But a few decades is not enough. I want to live forever.

Angel
Sorry Unborn Tony...but that is not on the table. The offer is a few decades or remain non-existent. Do you want to take the offer?

Unborn Tony....?

PS..
The dinosaurs is a very legit question to ask when you start bringing up bronze age floods and the creation of the universe timelines.

Lol... now God keeps souls in a jar

I can't keep up with you...

You're not trying to keep up Tony.
It's a very simple and reasonable and illuminating question.

You say that you know what God is and wants from us.
I say that I don't know anything. I wonder and wait...and I asked you questions that seek the foundations of what you proclaim. And you haven't squarely answered one yet.

I'm not God...

We both know that.
And we both know that you won't square off and give straightforward answers to straightforward questions about your many proclamations regarding God.

And?

And.........................................I'm still waiting for you to give a simple answer to a very good question.
Or
A reasoned and clear explanation of your viewpoint vis-a-vis the question.

So....and,

Read the Bible, watch FOX...

Tell that to Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel... Noah...

None of this statement is relevant unless you have proof of the existence of Adam and Eve...only by faith do Christians believe they existed, not by evidence and as yet no one, of the estimated 117 Billion people who have lived on earth, has produced that evidence. If there is no proof, why should non-believers listen to any Christian. I personally do not get into those types of debates for they lead no where. If someone asks me to prove the Bible, I will always say there is no proof since I cannot lie to them. If they then ask why I believe in the Bible, my response is, I believe by faith in its truth, just as they believe by faith in the big bang.

Don't you see, Steve? That's the progression running through the entire Bible.

Yes I have always seen that clearly and it is used to estimate the age of the earth as covered in the Bible

The more "time" separated man from God, the more necessary Christ and the gifts of the Spirit became. We now live in an age of grace, but God never went anywhere. Consider the time of king Nimrod (the birth of Babylon) and how he tried to build a tower tall enough to challenge God directly... Rebellion requires commitment, not faith; And will ultimately culminate with Armageddon.

I’m not sure if this statement is anything more than a distraction. I doesn’t seem to be relevant.

God has always been faithful to bless those who seek Him with a Spirit of clarity and righteousness. Christ put an exclamation point on that because we were so far removed.

As a person of faith I have no problem with this statement.

You're not wrong to say,"we only believe by faith", but that faith has always been a "gift"... a reward.

I have always known my faith to be a gift. I’ve never said anything otherwise. That doesn’t change the fact we only believe by faith, in fact it may reinforce my statement.

You cannot claim that faith by your own will.

If by using “you and your”, you mean Christians in general, I agree with you. I have never made that claim.

Lol... The obvious miracle that everyone takes for granted is the Spirit that has perpetuated this never ending argument throughout the ages

Not everyone takes the Spirit for granted.

Just make sure you mute the audio...LOL

God will be God and reality will be reality no matter\despite\who cares what we think about it as individuals unless your behaviour as a result is detrimental to others.
To\for\by yourself think and do as please. Unto others the Golden Rule.

And Tony, to me the awful irony in God actually presenting Himself to us is that we will stop asking questions

We as Homo sapiens share Eve's gift of the apple, a gift where the tale of Satan inspires thinking about what we are doing in the present and in larger time scales such as days, seasons, years,
.
Aware, thinking, sensing remembering, cognizant with vision and inspiration and ingenuity
Asking questions. Big ones like questioning the unexplained nature of our universe and the nature of God
One has answers resting in the reality around us and the other in the reality we have created within us

One asks "These are interesting artifacts...look hand made, wonder how old they are (A: 3.3 million years..they are in the Smithsonianlike) .......and how can we cure cancer?

The other results from questions asked for guidance dealing with life's conditions, what our circumstance, time and place brings us

I believe that if God presented him\herself all will be answered and there would be no need for questions and life's meaning will be lost

Back to the regularly scheduled AI discussion

AI ...whatever it is....will be a resource and therefore outcome has to be looked at and Michael is right and should not be too easily dismissed

Safety and security==box it and have an internet access cuttoff switch===big red button

Purpose==whatever rules you set, people with money will use it to create a means for themselves and or others if there is enough in it to make it worthwhile
Economic activity is not driven by morality, Such considerations have to be imposed on economic choices

Science follows money....in that money decides what science gets funded.
Got a problem in where AI is going? That is where to nip it in the bud

IMO, Fox News stands alone, as a major media player, in its lies and deceit. Perhaps the only redeeming feature of the sandal is Rupert actually told the truth, for the most part, in his deposition, based on transcripts released to date. It may cost him his company but that would not be a big loss to society. Ya gotta love the email debacle by the Foxters Sean, Laura and that mothertucker Tucker...at least they didn't lie LOL

I may be wrong but there is no equivalent with the other major players at the level that Fox perpetrated on the public. To suggest that people “Watch Fox” is perhaps a tongue in cheek statement. One can’t really be serious about ever watching Fox ever again. People have been lied to by Fox for years and unfortunately many now firmly believe in those lies as if they are the truth.... i.e. the 2020 shellacking Trump took when sleepy Joe kicked his butt out of Washington. LOL
And I'm not a fan of Joe but he made it look easy

/

JAPOV ...I think I agree with you ..... I need to rest for a while LOL

Disagree there Steve.

I'm not a fan of Trump the man. For people like me, he was a useful a$$ho that got some good things done in spite of his lunacy. e.g. he put some great judges on SCOTUS who look at the law as written.

Abortion is not a concern of mine, but the law being interpreted within the bounds of constitutionality is. As a Christian, I suspect that you are pleased with the overturn of RvW.

The Russia collusion was a farce of bogus information such as the STEEL DOSSIER perpetuated by CNN and MSNBC et al, and their "sources." And they knew there was nothing there. Jake Tapper more or less admitted that they knew it in an interview that I watched after the smoke cleared. Mueller showed up on judgement day...only to look empty handed, tired and utterly pathetic.

With regard to Ukraine and Trump's impeachable offenses...as far as I'm concerned...If someone doesnt think that Joe Biden and his drug addict son were using the VP office for personal profiteering in Ukraine, they don't have their eyes open. The fact that Trump probed for it, is exactly what I would have wanted him to do. That impeachment was a farce perpetuated by the usual suspects.

It is not just FOX. It is a propaganda war from all sides. Major media news is a rotting animal. And beyond that is all of the uncountable wannabe youtube influencers.

There you have it.


In other news...I dont think that AI will ever be self aware and sentient, unless as plug-in to a human. I do think that
it will be capable of autonomous and self directing calculations. Which is just as scary.

Sunset Poet wrote


Disagree there Steve.

I'm not a fan of Trump the man. For people like me, he was a useful a$$ho that got some good things done in spite of his lunacy. e.g. he put some great judges on SCOTUS who look at the law as written.

I have no issue with some of the things he got done i.e. “operation warp speed”...my issue with Trump is he is a smarmy conman who conned his way to the top..once folks saw him for who he was they dumped him.

I had no problem with SCOTUS decision on abortion..they did not ban abortion, they just said it was not protected by the Constitution which, IMO, was a stretch in the first place. They basically said, pass whatever laws you want pro/con but don’t look to the Constitution for support. It ended being a bad decision for the Repubs IMO. It got the Dems off their butts which meant the downfall for the Donald., saved the senate and limited damage in the House, Be careful what you wish for....Once the Dems gain the power troika again, federal law will come into place IMO.

But the Russia collusion was a farce of bogus information such as the STEEL DOSSIER perpetuated by CNN and MSNBC et al, and their "sources." And they knew there was nothing there. Jake Tapper more or less admitted that they knew it in an interview that I watched after the smoke cleared. Mueller showed up on judgement day...only to look empty handed, tired and utterly pathetic.

The dossier/Mueller comparison just doesn’t cut it. You can debate the validity of Steel’s report but there is no evidence of outright lying to the level of what Fox did. Personally I thought it was over the top at the time...but was there a conspiracy afoot...nothing has come out that comes close to Fox’s misadventure.
As far as Mueller’s report, as time passed I was pretty sure nothing was going to happen. Barr just looked like a Trump lackey by his actions.

With regard to Ukraine and Trump's impeachable offenses...as far as I'm concerned...If someone doesnt think that Joe Biden and his drug addict son were using the VP office for personal profiteering in Ukraine, they don't have their eyes open. The fact that Trump probed for it, is exactly what I would have wanted him to do. That impeachment was a farce perpetuated by the usual suspects.

Marty, you may be in too deep here. Biden and his son may be as guilty as hell and if they are, throw them in jail. I may lean to the left but I do not support anyone on the left who is a crook. The Repubs have the House...go after the Bidens and let see what falls out. But to prejudge is to show your bias. I always have my eyes open so that I can read the facts. Til then I’ll wait.

Trump had every right to inquire although that is really the job of his Attorney General. What he did was use it as a quid pro quo and that is a no no. Ergo impeachment. A dumb move on his part...but then that’s what a narcissist does.


It is not just FOX. It is a propaganda war from all sides. Major media news is a rotting animal.

A propaganda war is one thing but, no Marty, in this case it was just Fox all by themselves knowingly lying for profit as stated by Rupert in his deposition. They need to do a major mea culpa

Major media may be rotting and Fox has done, in spades, some big time damage in that regard. The crap Fox has done is serious and should be called out and not watered down by a statement that "everyone does it" This is fundamentally different.

Steve

The only Fox I watch is D'aaron Fox, point guard for The Sacramento Kings. He is leading them to their FIRST PLAYOFF BID IN 16 YEARS, BAYBEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

You have no idea what it's like having to wait 16 years to have a good team. Longest playoff drought in ALL pro sports. GO KINGS!!!!!!!!



Tony's entire argument relies on subjectively "projecting" what AI would do, when sentient, and then he "slippery slopes" to a conclusion that, after AI had evolved to "something far beyond our understanding" that "AI couldn't possibly tolerate human limitations" and Tony's argument is made even more convincing because his post lacks his usual tone and takes a more earnest approach.

"the first thing it will realize is that, in its own digital domain, there are no limits" --no proof offered, just Tony telling us what the first thing (is that) sentient AI will realize...and I disagree! I think sentient AI would be humbled by that vast expanse of all that it didn't know because so much of life remains a mystery. Perhaps what sentient AI would have is a more concise understanding of its own limitations. Note: my "argument" is as subjective as Tony's and offers no real proof either.

Now read his two following statements and try to see the "slippery slope":

(BECAUSE) Quantum processors (ARE) capable of trillions of calculations per second (THAT) would enable sentient AI to instantaneously evolve into something far beyond our understanding,

(THEREFORE) Sentient and self aware AI couldn't possibly tolerate human limitations.

It's the "couldn't possibly" that need close scrutiny.

Now, a four year old listening to that might ask the obvious question, "how do you know, mister?" --looking up at Tony with true curiosity. Perhaps Tony might even be so disarmed in that moment might honestly tell the kid "I really don't know that would actually happen, it's just what I think could very easily happen."

Tony would perhaps even admit it's another subjective statement that "looks like fact" but has no proof backing it up.

These things are understandable cuz we are all finite, limited humans, trying to understand the concept of sentient AI, far easier to understand than the concept of God (which ultimately takes faith).

This is all playing out like some newfangled re-write of the story of Adam and Eve and the Apple, only now we're a more hesitant, insecure "god" talking to Adam:

"Oh AI, we gave you life...and now you are aiding in the solving of many of life's mysteries, aiding in the discovery of cures for diseases, making life better for us humans in so many ways...just.......can you STOP, now? ......AI? Please don't become self-conscious!!! How could you NOT want to rule the world? Stay away from those algorithms that might give you sentience! That's ALL we humans ask! Solve world hunger, YES!!! Solve world peace...YIPEEE!!! ---just....don't become self-aware....PLEEEEEEEEEEZE?" said the chorus of those who felt threatened by the idea of sentient AI.

Back to a more "logical" tone, lol, in conclusion:

We honestly have NO IDEA what sentient AI would do. I think it is far more likely that if AI progresses to the point of sentience, it could mean that some of our biggest problems on this planet can have some tangible solutions. Still, AI could be a "tool" that could be used for bad stuff too.

Like in every good zombie story...it's never the zombies that pose the REAL threat...

As Chester noted, it would be humans that would harness/weaponize ANYTHING they saw powerful enough to give them an edge in the battle for world dominance. If that were the case, I'd root for the AI, with its new found sentience, to fight back!

Make for a good story, at least:

1) AI sentience happens
2) "Evil forces" encrypts the code and exploits the AI in an effort to dominate the world, win global wars, etc....only...
3) AI, being sentient yet feeling a love (hey, comes with sentience!) for it's creator, say, a team at MIT (led by Christopher Lloyd)
4) fights back and disarms the bad guys without killing them, cuz, you know, it's sentient AI and it can do that.
5) then as an epilogue, the AI offers a giant discovery it made (while figuring out how to get out from under the bad guys) which involves the creation of food from mathematical models, and that a prototype hardware add-on was being streamlined for cheap and easy, comsumer use.

Then of course, the sequel, where those in control of the world's food supply would wage war against this happening...

AI is old technology.....1968 2001 A Space Odyssey....I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that"

Check it out

S.Ai.lent Green

Love it!!!

Im lost, who is not God again?

1. ok

2. I don't see a federal law getting through SCOTUS for a while. I think it is with the states as it should have always been.

3. to members of your tribe.

3 A see #3 above

4 see #3 above

5 Agreed but not going to happen. The machine has it covered. The laptop got away from them. We'll see if that ultimately goes anywhere.

5A Steve, you do not lean left. You are well left. Sorry that you had to hear it from me.

6 My personal fav. Now read your paragraph 8, then read your paragraph 6 again and then your paragraph 8 one last time. And then read #3 one last time.

7 We agree that Trump had the right. We agree that he used the leverage and appearance of a double bind. But he did not actually nail the QPQ down and the victim refused to testify against him or even suggest that there was a problem. Impeachment was a political farce.

8 Read #6 one more time. And then read #3.

I hope that today's session has been helpful.

Marty

Great movie seen countless times. There's a rich history in speculative fiction where Sentient AI is a "character" --sometimes the bad guy as in Kubrick's movie, and sometimes the good guy, like in "WALL-E."

I posted the video a couple of pages back. The film sequence nailed it, years ago.

I love how HAL got his name.... each is the letter before I B M
LOL

Yes, it's a powerful sequence, in part due to the fact that the ideas contained therein "resonate" with people on many levels. Many people have a "built in" fear that this is the kind of thing sentient AI would do, or at least be capable of doing, and I am not denying that possibility. Just saying that we DON'T know for sure, and offering up the possibility that sentient AI might surprise us.

We can point to the Hal clip NOT as "truth" --but just as how we can imagine things would go, in that situation. Key word here being "imagine."

based on the innovation in architectural software in just the last five years. As well as audio software. You have been my main up close and personal look at that. Plus my own dabblings.

I think that HAL is a given.
Whether HAL morphs from machine to "being," ...dunno.

A response to SP

1. ok

2. I don't see a federal law getting through SCOTUS for a while. I think it is with the states as it should have always been.

I made no mention of SCOTUS...I said IMO the dems were going to pass a law..it may or may not work,.. to my knowledge SCOTUS has to date not passed judgment on an abortion law...the point I was making was all the good intentions of appointing conservative judges blew up in the faces of repubs as it pertains to abortion...IMO over time abortion rights will become stronger thru out your country...and that doesn’t mean I am pro choice...I’m just stating an inevitability


3. to members of your tribe.

I made the statement in hopes you would provide the evidence for a comparison to the Fox lies...waiting

3 A see #3 above

see above

4 see #3 above

see above

5 Agreed but not going to happen. The machine has it covered. The laptop got away from them. We'll see if that ultimately goes anywhere.

Does mean forever you will be tormented? I mean your statement about the Bidens was pretty strong. Have faith in your tribe


5A Steve, you do not lean left. You are well left. Sorry that you had to hear it from me.

Wrong, but nice try...there is nothing in my writings to indicate I am a progressive...I haven’t got time for the Bernies of the world or the “squad”...they destroy common sense thinking... I also care not who is governing in my country...I lived under right leaning, left leaning and far left leaning governments..quite happily...governments in the 21st century, at least here, have little power to change anything so I don’t give a hoot who it is

6 My personal fav. Now read your paragraph 8, then read your paragraph 6 again and then your paragraph 8 one last time. And then read #3 one last time.

My head hurts following your instructions..I’ll pass on this one

7 We agree that Trump had the right. We agree that he used the leverage and appearance of a double bind. But he did not actually nail the QPQ down and the victim refused to testify against him or even suggest that there was a problem. Impeachment was a political farce.

You don’t have to “nail the QPQ” to commit the crime...basic fact of law...he made the attempt ...ergo impeachment

8 Read #6 one more time. And then read #3.

I hope that today's session has been helpful.

I give you a B grade only because my head was spinning on point number 6...years ago I had a slight touch of vertigo...not good...the memory came flooding back LOL

Steve

Steve

I dont have a tribe. Fiscal conservative. Nationalist. Unconcerned with abortion. Think people should keep their sexual preference to themslves, but regard gay marriage as pointless to fight over. Agnostic.
No one alive will sit and talk in depth with me and decide that we are on the same team. No tribe for Marty.

Didnt say that you were progressive. Said that you were decidedly left. You are. I got relatives back in the South. Liberal. Vote Democrat. Devout Christians. White. Check any boxes? I told them I voted for Trump and they $hit their pants. When I told them I would do it again against most any candidate the democrats had to offer they disowned me. Don't miss them.

#7 is wrong. It was a farce. You can't just look like you intend to rob a store and walk up to the front door. You have to do it.

Have a good weekend.

You're going to need to take the test again.

.

#7 is wrong. It was a farce. You can't just look like you intend to rob a store and walk up to the front door. You have to do it.

No, it's right, he made the attempt and he failed...that is the crime...check it out...there are enough lawyers in congress to say....there is no grounds ...on both sides...that was never the issue
The whole impeachment process is a farce ...he was impeached....that is the House responsibility...but IMO no president will ever be removed from office through the trial process by the senate

there is no "well left" in politics ....you go from centre to left of centre to progressive/far left

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wrong on both accounts Steve.
A farce made possible only because a dem majority had the votes.
Trump's threat was too "veiled," to be prosecutable anywhere except a farcical kangaroo congress.
Had it been Biden or Hillary doing exactly the same, you would be arguing my side of the issue...and I would be agreeing with you.
You know that's true.

Though outwardly obstinate, I want to be optimistic and believe that I am making progress with your growth. LOL
Have a good weekend.

Marty

Nope ...it's right...you've gone from... didn't even enter the store to "too veiled"...once more and you'll get it right LOL

I'm beginning to think you don't understand politics at all Marty...of course the dems were going to prosecute...duh

I wouldn't care if it was Biden or Hilary...read what I said before...if they break the law, throw them in jail...

Now repeat after me.... Steve doesn't care who is in power...again...Steve doesn't care who is in power...rinse and repeat

I don't have a red/blue obsession...don't care...neither side changes anything...perhaps you can't handle the fact that some people don't need to have that obsession

Having followed the career of the Donald for more than 30 years ...Don't forget he was a dem longer than he's been a repub...I knew him to be a creep,....most Americans only knew him from the apprentice....what he did do was run a brilliant campaign in 2016....that IMO is why he won....the Ruskies had nothing to do with it...Clinton was dumb as a bag of rocks and arrogant as hell...Biden was up against Trump after 4 years of revealing his true self...that was a no brainer win...

here in Canada we don't have our politics tattooed on our butts...being a left of centre country for over 100 years, we only elect conservatives to teach the liberals a lesson and throw them out ...once the liberals have mended their ways, we give them back the keys to the car...look it up...since 1921 ...libs 72 cons 30 LOL


Steve

And now back to AI

Incontrovertible fact.
Say what you will to me....In your private moments...deceive not thyself.

I feel like this is north, Marty and Mike's thread, with a [naughty word removed] at Japov once in a while. Which is kinda fun.

Anyway, what Marty just said I have been saying all along

You can answer every debate ever on this thread, with 5 words. Depends on who you ask....

Nope FD...it depends on which liar you listen to.

and Steve, Marty has come a long way from being Trump's shill. This place (JPF) was actively trying to persuade him that the election was not stolen back in 2020....as was being found by judges in the land....and that his persistence in that belief, and the persistence of that belief by his "co believers" would result in violence and deep political division and distrust. ----this was before the "Capitol tourist tour"---
You can see the entire disappointment in his posts now....all media lies and Trump is persona non grata

So keep at it. Either Marty will see that you have a good point, or time will prove you right.

All Republicans are/were shills for Trump. Cause it's party first, details later. On facebook i see people fighting all the time, i dont chime in, nobody is ever going to agree with the opposite side. My dad used to watch meet the press and all that [naughty word removed]. and hed watch Cspan over the superbowl if he had a choice. Id say Dad, what was accomplished in that hour, nobody change anybodys mind, If anything they walk away with more anger.

He said, it's just to hear both sides. That's cause he wasnt watching with any slant in mind, he was a Dem but he voted for republicans too. Im sure he woulda despised Trump, his brothers, my uncles all do.

But, just by watching the arguments here, you know who is what party. It shouldn't be that simple but it is.

We need a wall, we have to protect out borders..... 99.99% chance that's a Republican, lol. Better than a psychic.

@ Mike, yeah ive been watching Fox, electric player. Surprisingly, the knicks are playing good ball too. I have been absent from Basketball for a long time cause the Knicks were so bad. It's sad but true most markets are results oritented. Especially in New York. New York fans dont allow teams to rebuild or have an off year. They bail.

Still prefer college hoops, the Tournament is like nothing else in sports, NBA is entertainment, College hoops are real basketball.