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LOL, no I don't want to talk about it. It might require you to take notes while I lie down on a couch and you never know what you might find on one of those.

What got me a little irritated here, apart from the dismissive tone of his remarks, is Couch's repeated insistence that I did not address his initial post when I clearly did. It's a tactic I have encountered many times before and it's why I likened a discussion with him to wrestling with jello. In discussions like these, at a certain point, it becomes useful to look beyond what someone is saying to how they are trying to make you feel by saying it. I used to let this kind of thing get me down, but it doesn't work with me any more. I might respond in kind, but I do so with a smile on my face.

I got the points, Gavin said basicly even if Paul could be proved to have written those letters, it wouldnt mean that what the letters said were true. Even if he believed it himself 100%

I could prove somebody authored a book, but i may not be able to prove as to what they said happened, happened.

I can prove OJ wrote the book. "I want to tell you" Does that mean the book is true?

We see alot more of the questioning today, because its become popular sport to immediately think who ever said something or wrote something is up to something. And we have all these tools to help us break that down. And we still have biases, some people swear by somebody, some people swear AT somebody.

The reason you dont see modern media controversy about the bible is because its so long ago anyway. There was no way in the previous thousands of years to make a real dent in it, the internet has changed the game.

And If Jesus were alive today, and doing his ministry today, he'd get some press and covergae for sure, but youd have everybody, and probably couch and Japov saying it was BS

We just didnt have that capacity when this stuff was written, and didnt for the thousands of years following it.

Im not denying Jesus lived, and I have no way to deny He was the son of God, there is just no way to prove he was either. Just cause somebody wrote HE IS THE MESSIAH, doesnt make it true.

Oh Lord, I already know I'm going to regret this redundant conversation with DomDom. Please stop me! Amen

Wheeeww, that was close!

Its only a matter of time before Japov shows up in a thread. You can set your watch to it....

Grouch does have an "air" about him, I'll give you that! He really reminds me of someone else I used to argue with a lot lol...

Dom........ Just tell me what I can do to make you happy.

....oh, I'm sorry... I thought this forum was about "Creative writing"..I guess not...you four guys go back to what you were doing...my apologies...

Ha! Now don't you start!

You can make me happy but putting a kick me sign on your ass....

which of the four are you....famine ????

He's all four.

Insanity comes in many forms...and every once in a while one of them makes you laugh your head off....lmho right now

maybe he's the fifth horseman....you know like the fifth Beatle

I'm the good looking one.

Is that a recent picture of you I;m looking at??

See...? That's why all you heathens need an education in Biblical Prophecy!

My "Kick Me" a$$ will be RAPTURED outta' here by then

Lol... That's some salty wisdom right there Mac!

That's amazing.....you found the one post not penned by one of the four fellows...pure honesty.. short and sweet...makes a statement...doesn't get involved in the rest of the conversation...doesn't need to...you have lots of views for this thread but no one really wants to get involved.....ever wonder why that is

My reason for posting the article was sincere. It descended into madness. I won't post another.

I believe you were sincere because I read the post and I wouldn't want you to not write more...but here's a thought....."it's not what someone says or does to you that is the issue....the issue is how we choose to respond to what is said or done"

Something I truly believe in and try to practice as often as I can is forgiveness in the moment..Christ taught us that while on the cross....forgive them for they........ he could have hated them but he chose to forgive in the moment..if you try it you will always go down a different road...I know...I've been there

Japov, threatening to leave, LMAO. Thin skin, he's happy when he's aggravating people, but the minute he thinks his audience isnt with him, he threatens to leave. He was goin nuts lookin for somebody to join him in his party thread, but they never showed up and he had to return his bags of chips... and dip.'

CG The problem is this isnt a standard run of the mill creative writing bit. If you wrote a story about a horse, i gurantee you there wouldnt be a debate about it.

This and many of your others are slanted, weighted, opinion based articles. You have written some political versions of this style, and a few religious ones. They ask to be discussed. Its not an attack on the author to say they dont agree with an analogy.

And religion has alot of opinions about it, and people are just as passionate about it as they are politics.

Try one about a horse, see if it does the same thing.

True, write one about a giraffe

Well the long and short of that is you are right

You've warned me before not to complicate your faith, but I'm sorry, I have to ask... Do you realize that you just took the single most important culminating event in the Bible and reduced it to, "forgiveness in the moment?"

Yes I am totally aware of that,, very observant JAPOV,, that is what He did

I agree, VNORTH and I tried but I failed. To an extent.
I think people expect Christians to be marshmallows
in the summer of love. That's not true at all as I pointed out earlier.

The same thing happened with my last article, as you can see. In fact, if you do a search, you'll find FD has the final post on many of my topics, going back years. He's ruined countless things I've posted.

Then do a search on ones of his I've killed.

Zero.

The one he posted yesterday has been greeted with crickets. Other than correcting glaring errors, I just didn't care about it.

It's not about forgiveness anymore than I would feel the need to forgive ants for ruining my picnic. For some reason he's drawn to what I do and feels a compulsion to ruin it.

It can be grating.

There is no easy answer.

Yes, there is no easy answer, but maybe the challenge is not in the convincing but in the changing of the rhetoric. Having read many of the posts, hardening of positions seems to evolve from unflattering comments....just a thought
Steve

The entire thing ends up being counterproductive and you end up bringing reproach on the thing you wanted to draw flattering attention to.

But patience does run out.

Ps...I just re-read the first few posts. My replies were to the point and sharp but not insulting, even after having to restate the same points. I took the first hit and replied with force but with dignity.

I stand by what I said. Those guys just wanted to argue. It's not the first time and I'm definitely not the only one who FD has stinkbombed on this site.

I hear you CG....it is tough but please don't stop writing because you have something to say ... remember... Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted

Eehhh...I don't see this as a case of martrydom. I could've posted about building birdhouses and he would've dropped a deuce on the topic.

I'm not going to stop writing, I'll just stop posting here. I posted the same material on Facebook and all was fine.

Anyone who's interested can ask and I can send them something privately. Although there are far better Christian writers than myself. And I also think my fiction writing is "warmer" than my non-fiction.

Persecuted may be going a bit far in this case But you are right in pointing out that the tone of a debate does tend to shape it as much as the content. So, clearly more than I realized, does the history that the participants have with each other.

I'm not talking martrydom, but I am talking about the reality of speaking of Christ in the 21st century...persecution has many forms

There is a lot of light in your statement, Gavin. Maybe this is the different road...thank you

Steve

Who's persecuting who?

FD didnt stink bomb it,, stinkbombing in your view is somebody who doesnt agree with what you wrote, not just the quality of it, but the content of it.

If you posted this story on a general forum somewhere, youd have many people rolling their eyes, and others saying good point. Its the nature of the business.

Stinkbomb my ass, it becomes a stink bomb because you retaliate.

I think I have a great idea!
Steve, Gavin... why don't you guys team up and help Dom with his "Problem with religion" thread? Show us how it's done, and I promise to stay out of it

Steve is a very religious guy, and the one thing I like about him, is he allows people to be who they are. He doesnt come off as arrogant. And there is no room for arrogance in Spirituality.

If only i could replace the name Steve with Japov....

Gavin, seems like an intelligent guy who wouldn't want to hurt anybody. I dont see him as a religious type, I could be wrong.

But id take those attributes with no religion, over religion with the opposite.

Now im not gonna say where the opposites are, ill just look one way and wink....

JAPOV said

think I have a great idea!
Steve, Gavin... why don't you guys team up and help Dom with his "Problem with religion" thread? Show us how it's done, and I promise to stay out of it




I Just read the FD thread and it took a lot of guts, Fd, to spill your guts about your concerns. It also gave me a better insight into who you are. Not many would make themselves that vulnerable.

JAPOV, I would never presume that I need to help FD with his thread. This is his story and needs to be respected.

Steve

Anyody know what denomination Japov is? Is it one of those WORLD CHURCH ORGANIZATION things?

I think maybe he's a baptist, I can envision him raising his hands up and singing in the black churches in the deep south...

Ok, no I cant see that. Oddly, the time I saw Father Ralph Diorio in Brooklyn, he was visiting a Baptist church. And they had a black choir, and the music was so much fun, way more entertaining than the Bach they play in my church.

And I had a big black woman, im talking probably 300 pounds, sitting next to me, and putting her arm around me as the choir was singing.

I prayed that God help her lose weight.... I was tempted to say "Did you come to be freed of weight troubles? lol, I did think that that, but She was a very warm and kind lady, I could never say it. Nice group of people overall.

Ha! We've ALL been "STINKDOM'd" LOL...

Hmmmm... I wonder what I should make of this...

LOUD and CLEAR now Steve!

I like how he states that he had to restate his points, and his replies were sharp but NOT insulting... lol

This clown man. Yes he had to restate them, because they werent true, but if i restate them, theyll have to be true, because i restated them.

Remember when in this thread he dissed Bruce Springsteen, and why did he do that? so he could try to discredit me, thinking that my mentioning Springsteen all the time, would make me a weaker mind, and then everybody will see his opinion was the best.

He does the same thing with songs...if you argue about music with him. at some point hes going to say you cant write.

But just to show you how phony he is... here he is crediting Bruce as his top 10 songwriter of past 50 years. He also tells the op of this thread here, that he's been listening to Bruce for 40 years, and hes no Bruce Springsteen

http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1144093/1.html

http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1171557/something-about-tomorrow.html#Post1171557

So, you have a situation .... was he lying here? or was he lying there? Or maybe its not lying, it's looking for the most strategic way to win a debate. Well, this is probably what the early Christians did. They had one goal, to start a new religion, and if they had to lie at times (omit a book or two that didnt match the feel they were looking for) so be it.

It's not lying if if i believe it......... huh?

To the victor goes the spoils....

Re: top ten songwriters of the last fifty years. [Re: maccharles]
couchgrouch Online Content
Top 25 Poster

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,042
Dylan

Lennon/McCartney

Jagger/Richards

Paul Simon

Pete Townsend

Bruce Springsteen

Neil Young

Tom Waits

My apologies, it was actually in his poem/short story/ whatever you wanna call it called RIgged. where he dissed Bruce
http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1178483/re-rigged.html

But you get the idea. When he posts something, its to be taken as Gospel, not an opinion. And if you give yours, your opinion will be challenged, even if it means he has to change his own opinion.....

But he is right about one thing, modern media cant be trusted, and neither can he. And probably neither could the early Christians.

Down he goes....


And Japov, whats the answer? Whats your denomination, 101 dalmations?

I have no suggestions about what to make of FD's post.

As for mine, it kind of goes back to a colleague I used to have at work who would always find ways to put me under pressure in meetings so that I would end up justifying myself all the time, constantly defending myself, doing all the talking and ending up committing to do all the work. One day, I suddenly realized what was going on, observed the techniques he was using and, to put a stop to it, simply turned some of them back on him. I was amazed at how well it worked. Once I was aware of what he was doing, he was no longer able to get under my skin.

This is what I mean by looking beyond what someone is saying to how they are trying to make you feel by saying it. Some people constantly use techniques to needle others. They might not be able to name or describe those techniques, but they know what they are doing and usually enjoy watching their effect.

I think I would be the last person to try to tell someone else what to do and certainly one of the last to listen to when it comes to this problem. I refer you to the wisdom of Father Dougal McGuire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT8G-ZF32BU

Haha, My cousin has been "meaning" to give me her collection of this show, I had never seen it, she says its hilarious.