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#1172418 - 12/13/20 02:07 AM Bell Bottom Blues  
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9ne Offline
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So... I'm watching this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4hv_8TXFWg

and wondering why. It's one thing to play a song on an acoustic, it's another to try and express "electric" on an acoustic.





http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=170948

I think what makes satan so attractive to others is
that he tastes like chocolate...
....and he played real drums
#1172537 - 12/18/20 11:47 AM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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I LOVE this version...wow! Never saw it before, and I'm very well acquainted with the original.

Sometimes I think comparison prevents pleasure. This is amazing to me.

#1172554 - 12/18/20 03:25 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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Originally Posted by 9ne
So... I'm watching this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4hv_8TXFWg

and wondering why. It's one thing to play a song on an acoustic, it's another to try and express "electric" on an acoustic.







9ne,

The "unplugged" movement was simply another sales tool to repackage music to sell in another way. Those it is silly to call electric/acoustic instruments (i.e. that are all plugged in and processed) unplugged, they did it for a decade and made a lot of money repackaging old music. It doesn't make it bad and this is a fine version, but that is the answer to your question I think.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
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Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@gmail.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

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#1172556 - 12/18/20 04:23 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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Hey Mark; thanks for commenting.
A little background: I'm a fan: I bought the Beano album, the Cream records and many solo efforts, the last being From The Cradle. I saw Eric when he was touring 461 Ocean Boulevard. I liked the record, (though it was a kinder, gentler Clapton) but the concert was disappointing; Eric didn't solo, (BIG letdown) George Terry did. I mention this because it's an indication of how he "phones it in" sometimes. (whatever the reasons, drugs, exhaustion, boredom etc.) I agree, comparison does affect my judgment. If I'd heard Layla unplugged first, would I have liked it better? Possible, maybe probable, but when you hear the ever present passion that runs through the original version, it's easy to be let down by version 2. I feel the same way about BBB. I think your point is valid, but I suppose context plays a major role.

Brian: Hope you're well!
I agree with you except for this being a fine version. With the musicians on stage it would be difficult to make a bad sound, but I don't think Eric is overly invested in it in a passionate manner. It looks to me like he's more concerned with singing, (both phrasing and finding the correct note) rather than getting inside the words.
Wow! I can see and hear all that from a video, having never spoken with the man? Yes! LOL Hey this is what humans do....


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=170948

I think what makes satan so attractive to others is
that he tastes like chocolate...
....and he played real drums
#1172559 - 12/18/20 08:38 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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A good Song can work played just about any way. I really enjoyed the organ. Back in the days of The Young Rascals and Al Kooper (K?) organ was a real sound builder.
I'm ready to let Eric do whatever he wants without too much critical judgment. He came from miles and years away to now and I won't ask of him any more than he wants to give.
I saw him with George Terry and other singers with the Robert Stigwood Organization (RSO) and was quite satisfied. Again, good Songs just work, and a little variation is easy enough to take. Hard to beat the "Layla" album, electric. But, like I say, I'll let Eric do whatever he wants and it'll be okay with me.
Ooo! "Live at Buddokan 2001" just kicked in.
http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1172556/bell-bottom-blues.html#Post1172556


There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com
#1172560 - 12/18/20 09:09 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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Thanks Gary! There's the rub: should I pay money to see, (DVD, live concert, stream etc.) and hear an artist that may not be delivering anymore, or should I be respectful and pay. That's a can of worms, the direction that could take....


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=170948

I think what makes satan so attractive to others is
that he tastes like chocolate...
....and he played real drums
#1172566 - 12/19/20 11:42 AM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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Originally Posted by 9ne
Hey Mark; thanks for commenting.
A little background: I'm a fan: I bought the Beano album, the Cream records and many solo efforts, the last being From The Cradle. I saw Eric when he was touring 461 Ocean Boulevard. I liked the record, (though it was a kinder, gentler Clapton) but the concert was disappointing; Eric didn't solo, (BIG letdown) George Terry did. I mention this because it's an indication of how he "phones it in" sometimes. (whatever the reasons, drugs, exhaustion, boredom etc.) I agree, comparison does affect my judgment. If I'd heard Layla unplugged first, would I have liked it better? Possible, maybe probable, but when you hear the ever present passion that runs through the original version, it's easy to be let down by version 2. I feel the same way about BBB. I think your point is valid, but I suppose context plays a major role.

Brian: Hope you're well!
I agree with you except for this being a fine version. With the musicians on stage it would be difficult to make a bad sound, but I don't think Eric is overly invested in it in a passionate manner. It looks to me like he's more concerned with singing, (both phrasing and finding the correct note) rather than getting inside the words.
Wow! I can see and hear all that from a video, having never spoken with the man? Yes! LOL Hey this is what humans do....


I have no doubt he knows it is a straight up cash grab. Part of the "appeal" of acoustic/unplugged versions is emphasis on lyrics. I am not a big Clapton fan so not the best judge.


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@gmail.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#1172567 - 12/19/20 12:06 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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John Voorpostel Offline
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Not sure I agree about the cash grab angle Brian...probably true for some, but that brush is too large IMO

There was a whole movement back in the 90s where artists released acoustin versions of their stuff

To my knowledge, a Scottish duo, Everything But The Girl, did it first and a number of artists followed. I think the cash grab probably had something to do with it, but the idea was to produce a fresh version of the songs...

EBGT had just come from their monster worldwide hit "Driving" and had many eyes and ears tuned in on them. The acoustic version of Driving is on this playlist as are acoustic covers of a number of songs

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lht-lM3MxLn4yNoJAVyXNQlqN4MTVa960


Here's the original Driving
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsRnVtIeLyg&ab_channel=EverythingButTheGirl


and their live version on David Letterman...which was my intro to them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mQO3BMTYog&ab_channel=EverythingButTheGirl


AND, to bring things back to the tread...here's Clapton and an acoustic version of Layla
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKwQlm-wldA&ab_channel=EricClaptonVEVO


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1172570 - 12/19/20 01:46 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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Sunset Poet Online content
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In my experience the trend originated on MTV as "Unplugged."
It featured electric bands such as Nirvana using acoustical guitars.
I always considered it a pleasant "side street."
It provided the acoustic version of LAYLA which was in stark contrast to the electric version and also very appealing to me. Loved both.
As far as concerts?...If you dont wanna go...dont go.
As far as Clapton?...He sings the song much better decades later....imho.
As far as cash grabs?...people liked the acoustical stuff and it sold some new records with old songs. My hat is off to them.

#1172572 - 12/19/20 02:21 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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9ne Offline
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Good stuff John!

Martin, as far as concerts, you may not know what you're going to see until you're there.
Example: in the 70s I saw BB King live twice. Great shows. Shortly before he died I was going to see him again but circumstances didn't allow. Knowledgeable friends went and said it was a dreadful show. My point being, if the well is dry don't mar your legacy. (while lightening loyal fans wallets)
Mike


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=170948

I think what makes satan so attractive to others is
that he tastes like chocolate...
....and he played real drums
#1172573 - 12/19/20 02:50 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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I saw Clapton in Atlanta in the late 70's. His show was great. He achieved studio quality sound in a huge arena.
He is even older than me, so if you went to his show now...it would have to be with the expectation that it would be subdued compared to his prime.
And there would be a judgement call to make regarding the value...to you.

Side note:
I saw BB king at a 2000 seat arena in the late 80's. I went for one song, Thrill.
Enjoyed the whole show.

#1172577 - 12/20/20 02:27 AM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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I saw BB at....BB Kings

Good show back in 85, guy sweat but he sat in a chair lol. He didn't play one chord all night, I started asking my friend I wonder if he knows chords, lol he Said yeah, of course he does.

I would agree revamping old material is about money in some ways. Its hard to say if making new songs that stink, are superior to old songs redone is preferable. I heard Elton John say he thought Billy Joel should make more albums, to which Billy Jokingly said yeah? I think he should make less! He has also said when he hears new albums from these old timers, he doesn't know why they don't stop making records .

Springsteen doesn't repackage old stuff but you know what he does do? He turns everything he does into movies. Makes a new album? Ok video tape it, and then sell that too...

He used to make an album simply to go on tour , right now no tours.

I don't know, maybe its a bit like an aging QB... Tom Brady for example. The guy has 6 Superbowl rings, 9 times there , automatic hall of famer, yet he decides to sign new contract, new team, walk away from new England ....question is why?

Is it more money, doubtful, I guess he just loves to play football.

Maybe Clapton and I know Springsteen loves to perform, hes not gonna stop. He said they will keep going until they physically can't.

Remember too these guys have millions of fans who want to see something from them, maybe Claptons best way is to repackage old stuff. Many only care about the old stuff anyway. It aint being acoustically redone to impress the college kids...



Last edited by Fdemetrio; 12/20/20 02:35 AM.
#1172581 - 12/20/20 10:34 AM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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Interesting thread. Don't know why I didn't see it since that is one of my favorite Clapton songs. And while I'm not really understanding the point of the question, as to the Reason he did this, I'm surprised that most don't mention the most obvious reason:

AGE. And hearing.

Townsend is nearly deaf. Most of the guys of those big loud days of blazing guitars are all suffering hearing loss and other health reasons. Sitting with an acoustic is much easier to control and has them concentrate on more nuances of the songs themselves, the finer aspects of playing, and a more age appropriate role as elder statesmen of their art. And while they still play some electric, the reason for the "unplugged" approach was also because their FANS WERE OLDER. The ticket prices were going to be more and it was honestly easier on the ears of the people paying the bills.

It also was a way to repackage their material to maintain the "nostalgia" effect, while introducing it to a new era of fans. The two Layla;'s were both distinctive and yet both different. Same thing. And as Clapton got back into a more traditional blues phase, he was getting back to the roots of Robert Johnson and the old players who played acoustic in the 20's and 30's.

Then, yes there is the "boredom" factor. Every artist, with the exception probably of Jagger and the Stones, go through a period where they are just "solo'd out." How many notes can you play? And as the "shredder effect" starting in the 80's and onto today, when you can't stand up note for note with the younger guys and gals, why try. I watch YOU TUBE videos of 8 and 9 year olds ripping off the Eddie Van Halen stuff, and playing so many notes, it gets boring very quickly. Even played with an 13 year old recently, and while he could play a bunch of notes, was about as inauthentic as they come.

So I'd say this is just a part of getting older and more nuanced in what you do as an artist. When you are young it's all about speed and flash. When you are older its' about nuance and longevity. The answer to me is easy.

He's older. We all are.

MAB

#1172584 - 12/20/20 11:23 AM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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Good points FD!

Interesting as always Marc, here's the thing; I've never seen someone put as much passion into his playing as SRV did. It's difficult for me to believe he would continue to tour if he couldn't perform at that level. Having said that, circumstances might have dictated it necessary. (were he still alive)
Does integrity play a part?


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=170948

I think what makes satan so attractive to others is
that he tastes like chocolate...
....and he played real drums
#1172585 - 12/20/20 11:33 AM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,183
Sunset Poet Online content
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They inteviewed McCartney on Sunday Morning tv.
He is 78.
He just wrote and recorded an album at his English Farm home studio while in self quarantine.
He wrote all the lyrics and music and played all of the instruments.
From what I saw of it, it was pretty subdued.

Do I think that I would like the album overall? Not that much.

If he came to Houston to a venue that was reasonably intimate...would I pay to hear him play just that album?

Yes. Because of his overall body of work. I would consider it a privilege and part of his life's chronology. And a tribute to the fact that he is still enthusiastically active at 78 doing his passion.

#1172586 - 12/20/20 12:22 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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9ne Offline
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I understand but I have to disagree Martin. Big Paul fan and I'd be tempted to attend for the reasons you mention, but I've heard him sing solo a number of times in the last few years and his voice is shaky with no strength behind it. I wouldn't want to be disappointed seeing one of the most gifted artists in history not being able to cut it.


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=170948

I think what makes satan so attractive to others is
that he tastes like chocolate...
....and he played real drums
#1172587 - 12/20/20 12:46 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
Joined: Aug 2007
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Sunset Poet Online content
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There used to be a show on HBO called "Six feet under."

In the show, an older female character lost her husband in a bus accident.
Her children were pressing her to get out and date, but she was reluctant.

Her response to one of them...(paraphrased from memory)

"He (the deceased husband) is the only person on earth who would look at me now and see the lovely twenty year old girl that he married."

#1172589 - 12/20/20 01:49 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Integrity plays a huge part. Not really sure what EC switching to a more pared down version of his music has to do with integrity, but whatever.

He has spent the last couple of decades doing more for Alcoholics and people with substance abuse problems, than just about any other celebritiy. Selling his most treasured guitars for millions and donating that to his various charities, his festivals, and all his efforts have a big part of that in Claptons life.

Clapton is one of those interesting people in that he acheived so much so fast and became this entire entitiy that took on a life of his own. In the 60's and 70's seeing the words "CLAPTON IS GOD" on walls, billboards, etc forced him to live up to expectations that no one could. This, invaribly led to drug addition, alcholoism and Phoning things in" over the years. Watch Harrison's "CONCERT FOR BANGLADESH" movie and you can see a lot of that. Of course, on Eric's bad days, he was leagues above almost anyone else.

I like, someone above became a pretty big EC fan, partically because of BELL BOTTOM BLUES. I came to it late, around 1974, as I actually started to play music.
The first actual concert I ever drove to was an outdoor show during the 461 Ocean Blvd. tour, with opening acts of BUDDY MILES, BILLY PRESTON, THE RASBERRYS, and THREE DOG NIGHT. Was an amazing first concert. I sat down, some African American handed me a joint and it was pretty memorable. Quite an opening for a 16 year old .Lots of firsts.

I followed him off and on over the years and have read and watched a lot of biographies on him. He has had nearly as many resurgances in a career as anyone. 70's, 80's, 90's, plugged, unplugged, bands, duos, guest starring, etc.Always finding his center. In the 2000's he began a return to the blues and that is pretty much where he is now. One of my favorites of this is "RIDING WITH THE KING" a duet with BB King. The guy is quite amazing.

But I really understand his attempt to get "back to his roots" with acoustic edge on his music. To me, it makes a lot of sense, and integrity is one of them. And as far as the "cash cow" end, Eric is one of those guys that could play as crappy as anyone, tour for a few months and still make a fortune. Not only his fans, .but the people who have never gotten to see him, would all pay to see him. Cant say that with a lot of people.

So yes, I think Integrity is part of it. There is not one reason for what he does. But in the end I think he is guided by the purest of reasons. A desire to explore himself and his art. The fact that it makes money, is a bonus.

MAB

#1172595 - 12/20/20 05:25 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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Uncle Lonnie met God once.

He told me,
"He looked EXACTLY like Eric Clapton!"

"Really?" I said.

"Yeah," Uncle Lonnie said, "But God said it was just a coincidence."

"Uncle Lonnie," I said, "You're just a coincidence."

He seemed astounded by that observation and went off to think about it.


There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com
#1172596 - 12/20/20 06:45 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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I'm mistaken I saw BB but not at BB kings, saw him I guess somewhere else in NYC.

As for EC, he had a tragic life, before fame and after. He was raised by Grandmother who he thought was his mother...I think dont quote me. but that affected him. And the say to truly play the blues you have to live it, he certainly had a blues life, just as authentic as his heroes. heroin and booze nearly killed him.

I dont understand where the hatred comes from. why do people want to attack him,? Sure he may have sold out when he started writing pop music, but in the beginning, I'm pretty sure his main goal was expressing himself through the blues.

He has managed to stay relevant, while not really doing much new. To still be in the conversation , for 40 years for more, you clearly did something right, even if you have to lean on Layla and a few other songs the whole time. But hey, you have a classic why not let it guide you .

For a white guy to become a legend in black music, that's an achievement in itself ment.... Kind of like Eminem being considered one of the greatest rappers of all time....lol

Clapton was so influential and I think brought the Blues to a white audience. On top of which he was a great artist, not just guitar player, a pretty darn good blues singer, and had the ability to play and write just about any kind of music.

He may have stole Harrison's wife, but from what I understand in the 60s and early 70s music scene, that was common place. And drugs do weird things to people.

But were still talking about the guy.


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 12/20/20 06:49 PM.
#1172597 - 12/20/20 07:16 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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What hatred?


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=170948

I think what makes satan so attractive to others is
that he tastes like chocolate...
....and he played real drums
#1172598 - 12/20/20 07:22 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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A tendency to place him as a has been. I consider him a living legend.

#1172602 - 12/20/20 11:48 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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He is a legend. Has been sounds harsh, but if it means his best work is behind him then it may fit. I hope not. Jimmy Page and Richie Blackmore are two more that may be in the same boat...


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=170948

I think what makes satan so attractive to others is
that he tastes like chocolate...
....and he played real drums
#1172603 - 12/21/20 12:20 AM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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Alot of artists think their last album, is the best thing they've ever done. While subjective, I'm pretty sure most people would say Layla was his best song ever, and will not be topped. And have no use for anything new....just the die hards.

I'm a Springsteen fan...and have friends and family who are too, but I guarantee you they couldn't name one song from his last five albums, maybe more, they might recognize it if heard.

But the legend does live in a different era, for most of the greats, clap, page, Townsend, stones, etc... None is them have made a great record in decades, yet they prevail. They don't fall away like many artists do. I guess their core stuff is so classic it sustains them.

But for me when I see Clapton, or hear him, I don't say"gee he hasn't done anything in decades" I say..."there he is ...Clapton!"

Basically mean he is an is, not a was.

People just love to chit on people, build them up, knock em down try them build em up again, To each their own

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 12/21/20 12:22 AM.
#1172615 - 12/21/20 09:21 AM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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Depends on the artist. It's odd. Sports take a different approach; when you're past your prime fans say its a shame, you should retire. In music, as long as you can show up you're golden....


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=170948

I think what makes satan so attractive to others is
that he tastes like chocolate...
....and he played real drums
#1172616 - 12/21/20 09:37 AM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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Originally Posted by 9ne
Depends on the artist. It's odd. Sports take a different approach; when you're past your prime fans say its a shame, you should retire. In music, as long as you can show up you're golden....


Maybe not "golden.""

Years ago I was watching some off-the-wall movie re-run on cable tv.
The characters were all young in the movie. A young white girl brought up Mick Jagger and the Rolling Stones for some reason..

In response, a young African-American wasnt sure who that was, so he asked a clarifying question....

"Mick Jagger?"
"Is that the dude that looks like beef jerkey?

lol

I might not use "golden."
" Maybe "venerable."

#1172618 - 12/21/20 09:59 AM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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Maybe Jagger IS a beast of burden...


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=170948

I think what makes satan so attractive to others is
that he tastes like chocolate...
....and he played real drums
#1172623 - 12/21/20 11:42 AM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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One of my favorite music moments is an interview in an English television show with Mick Jagger. It was 1966 or 67' and the Stones were on a ROLL (Pun intended.)

The reporter asked him "How long do you think you guys will be doing this?"

Jagger said "Well, probably iit'll be over n a year or two. I mean who wants to watch some old fart of 25 singing rock and roll."

That pretty much sums up the aging thing. Age is in the eye of the beholder or the person who is aging. Do you remember when you were 16 and everyone around you was ANCIENT? "OLD" is ten years older than you.

MAB

Last edited by Marc Barnette; 12/21/20 11:42 AM.
#1172624 - 12/21/20 11:46 AM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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Yes, and Townshend wrote, I hope I die before I get old . alot of guys did, he's still here!

#1172626 - 12/21/20 12:29 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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You know, I haven't exactly figured out the focus of this thread other than wondering about what keeps people going as musicians later in life I guess. If I'm missing something, I'd appreciate someone telling me what it is. But I was watching YOU TUBE and came across a video filmed a few years ago of a few other old farts that got together musically and did some interesting things:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUQ_gj-biIc

#1172628 - 12/21/20 02:02 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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Hey Marc: I suppose my original thought was that if you have a wonderful electric version of a song, (that people are invested in) then an acoustic version has a lot to live up to, so it better be as good. Not necessarily the same sound or arrangement but unique and viable in it's own right. Obviously many people like the acoustic efforts, ( BBB, Layla) I'm not one of them. For some reason, I believe people think I'm disparaging the ARTIST. My posts don't reflect this opinion. I may not like some of Eric's efforts, (neither does he) but I'm still a fan.

It's normal for topics to digress as happened here-fine with me.

I think the conversation is interesting and I always enjoy reading your, (and others) opinion...
-Mike


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=170948

I think what makes satan so attractive to others is
that he tastes like chocolate...
....and he played real drums
#1172631 - 12/21/20 03:01 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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THanks for the explanation Mike. About half of what I find on the Internet is like walking into an ongoing conversation and having no idea what it is really about. I try to read these forums and contribute as I can, but a lot of times I am doing multiple things. So I sort of miss parts of the conversation or I might misread it. For instance, I have re-read them all a few times and don't get the comments about "hating." Can't even see where that is involved in this conversation.

I understand your observations and know people who agree with you. I see it from a little bit of a different side. I grew up playing music in the 70's. Kiss, Aerosmith, Styx, Foghat, Thin Lizzy, Vocal stuff like Poco and The Eagles, Southern Rock, 38 Special, Skynyrd, Allmans, etc. then in the 80's.Loverboy, Journey, Boston, all those power pop rock bands of that era. Full Marshall Stacks, drums, keyboards, lights and sound, far too heavy equipment, all that stuff. Rock was my thing.

Then, I heard a group called EXILE and saw country in a different light. They had been a killer rock band but when I saw them, they had transitioned to country. I started playing more and more on acoustic and never looked back. When I moved to Nashville in 88', and since, you started seeing a lot of former rockers transitioning over to more acoustic playing. Peter Frampton, Robert Plant, Brett Michaels, The Eagles, John Cougar, Hall and Oates, Steven Tyler, and many of those other groups started recording while not exactly COUNTRY stuff, more pared down acoustic stuff. When the Eagles made their return in 1994, they did Hotel California heavily acoustic. Was the same stuff, just a litle different spin on it.
Being older myself (was 28 when I moved to Nashville) it just was a lot easier to deal with physically (hearing wise) and a little more interesting to play, write and be a part of.

So hearing things like Clapton when he did his "UNPLUGGED" phase, and all those MTV, VH1 stars, all made a lot of sense to me. It actually exposed new generations to that music. The acoustic Layla, brought millions into Clapton's fan base that were too young or not born during his heyday. And along the way I wrote with a few of those guys. George McCorkle, from The Marshall Tucker Band, John Ford Coley, from England Dan and John Ford Coley, later Jim Peterick of 38 Special and Survivor, and played with a lot more, Gunner and Mathew Nelson, Members of Poison, and other heavy metal bands, and countless other former rockers who had transitioned over. Most had the same take on it, as you aged, and your crowds age, the more a pared down acoustic approach made more sense.

I did the same with my own music. While I've always brought a style and raw energy to it, I went to a more pared down acoustic approach instead of more production, bigger bands, etc. It was easier on my own ears (Still have a little hearing loss from a Robin Trower show in 77'. Important safety tip! Never lean against a stage 20 feet away from three full stack Marshalls.) so it just made more sense stylistically and health wise.

So I get your comments on preferring the earlier versions of these people. I look at it more of expanding their own artistry and reach fan wise. Both have validity. At least you have the records of both versions if you want.

Thanks for explaining. Always interesting conversations going on.
MAB

#1172632 - 12/21/20 03:44 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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Interesting Marc. Is it possible that another reason bands went country is because their brand of rock wasn't sellable product anymore and country around the time of Garth and Shania was a viable alternative?

Where I'm coming from:

I grew up listening to a variety of music, Big Band, Sinatra, (mother) Vera Lynn, Patty Page style vocalists, (father) Johnny Mathis, Platters, Soul singers, (brother) and late 50's early sixties top 40. (sisters) I bought a Hank Williams record when I was 10 and Meet The Beatles when I was 11. (there's a jump, although I think Hank had a lot of rock and roll in him)

To-day I have no problem switching from Bach to Metallica to Roy Buchanan to Benny Goodman to Dwight Yoakum-it's all great music, and it was special, unique.
Unfortunately, music is undervalued to-day and certainly not "special"-just the way it is....

I would have liked to have heard you slamming power chords Marc!


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=170948

I think what makes satan so attractive to others is
that he tastes like chocolate...
....and he played real drums
#1172637 - 12/21/20 04:47 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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Mike,

Now THAT is another aspect of this that is very prevelant. With myself and many others of our respective generations, we didn;t leave rock music, rock music left us. For my own musical journey, there came a point around 1986 where the type of rock I was into fell out of favor. I was in the era of the power pop of 80's rock. Full guitar stacks, bass, big drums, technical keyboardist and me, the loud lead singer with a few high notes that made all the dogs run for cover. If you think Steve Perry of Journey, Mike Reno of Loverboy, Denis Dee Young of Styx, or Brad Delp of Boston, that was sort of the type of vocalist. Too many high notes and tight leather pants. LOL! The songs were mostly heavy pop power chords and general chasing girls and party lyrics.

In the latter part of the 80's first came the HEAVY METAL BAND OF THE WEEK. RATT, Poison, etc. lots and lots of Aqua net and spandex. That was not me. Then it started getting darker and darker with the advent of Nirvana and the Seattle "Let's slit our wrists" grunge music. THEN it started drifting to hip hop and rap, and none of those were me.

Country, with Exile, Alabama, and multiple singers and groups were where most of the rock elements that I enjoyed were going to. And Nashville, with it's solo guitar and voice approach fit me like a glove. I had morphed my own music into a smokey bluesy edgy country, much in the vein of Delbert McClinton and later Travis Tritt. I called it "In your Face Blue Eyed Soul." And was gaining a toe hold till this guy from Oklahoma named Garth Brooks brought in a more traditional attitude with rock energy and shifted the dynamic.

But it is true that a lot of the rockers found all of our ways to Nashville because of the changes in rock music. So like everything, it is never just one thing that causes artists and genres to redefine themselves. It is a lot of things. Good discussion.

MAB

#1172638 - 12/21/20 05:38 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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Marc, 9e wrote a few comments earlier...

Thanks Gary! There's the rub: should I pay money to see, (DVD, live concert, stream etc.) and hear an artist that may not be delivering anymore, or should I be respectful and pay.....

By whose terms is he not delivering though?


Brian: Hope you're well!
I agree with you except for this being a fine version. With the musicians on stage it would be difficult to make a bad sound, but I don't think Eric is overly invested in it in a passionate manner. It looks to me like he's more concerned with singing, (both phrasing and finding the correct note) rather than getting inside the words.
Wow! I can see and hear all that from a video, having never spoken with the man? Yes! LOL Hey this is what humans do....

I also heard the words cash grab, which is not being very nice either.

I mean is it really cause you don't think he's not feeling it, or is it cause he's old and playing the same songs.

And it wasn't all about any one here, its what up frequently brought up about so called washed up musicians.... My point was Clapton can go another 10 years and never be washed up cause he is a legend .


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 12/21/20 05:48 PM.
#1172640 - 12/21/20 06:45 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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By whose terms is he not delivering though?
By my terms. I paid for the records, concerts, DVD's etc. I'll be the judge. Did you want someone else to tell me my opinion?
Do you pay to see a concert, the guy doesn't deliver and you say it doesn't matter because he's a legend? There's a reason people are legends-they deliver. Better than most.

I don't think he's washed up either.
I already said this:
He is a legend. Has been sounds harsh, but if it means his best work is behind him then it may fit. I hope not. Did you see this?

I didn't say cash grab but I wondered why you're offended. Everything around top level musicians IS a cash grab. Ex. Live albums, merch. That's how some survive.


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=170948

I think what makes satan so attractive to others is
that he tastes like chocolate...
....and he played real drums
#1172642 - 12/21/20 07:00 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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I wasn't being specific about what the hate was, just that it was there. not to nitpick on who said what. Its a common thing to do, to a guy with whos been around forever. this first instinct is to say why hes not this or that. There are guys just starting who aint that good. If this was a brand new, a guy named Eric Clapton, you wouldn't be comparing it. Everybody except you likes this version.

I do know what you mean about paying out money . I pay 150 to see Springsteen, while he never under sells you, he plays four hours, but by now I've seen it all. The main reason to go is for communion with other fans. Not to sit and judge whether or not he still is hitting his notes (he never did!)

But this wasn't about paying money to go see him, this was a post of a version of bell bottom blues. Didn't cost you a cent.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 12/21/20 07:02 PM.
#1172643 - 12/21/20 07:08 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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I think Dylan disappointed me most when you tak about under delivering

Big open stadium at the CNE in Toronto...he was entirely undecipherable, muddied music that all sounded the same, and an altogether listless performance

It was in the days of his substance abuse...as I found out afterwards


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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#1172644 - 12/21/20 07:22 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: John Voorpostel]  
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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
I think Dylan disappointed me most when you tak about under delivering

Big open stadium at the CNE in Toronto...he was entirely undecipherable, muddied music that all sounded the same, and an altogether listless performance

It was in the days of his substance abuse...as I found out afterwards



I was always told to expect exactly that from a Dylan concert.
The other rumored disappointment was Led Zep. Had some people tell me that their sound wasnt cohesive in the flesh.

#1172645 - 12/21/20 07:23 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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This is an interesting thread, because you guys keep bringing up things that remind me of other things.

I myself have done plenty of soul searching over the past couple of years as to if I should continue on. Most of the time you feel, "WHAT'S THE POINT?" Music doesn;t sell worth crap anymore, so many venues have shut down, people don't really care that much, and of course, Covid has taken an enormous toll on us all. It is easy to say "That's it! I'm done." For me, it really doesnt matter that much since I'm not in the central elements of the industry. I am more in the teaching community and am able to keep myself out of the fray of the business.

But you also wonder if people will view you as a sad example of the guy who should have called it quits a long time ago. WE think of athletes, the boxer who took one too many blows to the head, the football or baseball player that we idolized and now see them hobbiling around and mentally beg them to get out of the game. It happens with musicians too. And you hope it doesn't happen to you.

I once went to see Matt "Guitar" Murphy, the rhythm guitar in the BLUES BROTHERS MOVIE. I loved that movie and a freind of mine called me said he was in town so we'd go see him. It was very dissappointing. Matt looked rode hard and put up wet, very haggard and very loaded. He played really badly and the band seemed like a last minute fill in group playing some pretty weak blues. I just wanted it to stop, and we left halfway through.

Or the night in Nashville about my second year. I happened to be playing one night when an enterage came in with Greg Allman. I was a HUGE Greg fan and got him up onstage. I'm left handed so had to play for him while he sang. And he proceeded to sing the most out of tune, worst version of "Midning Rider" I've ever heard. Really was an uncomfortable time. Years later I would read Gregg's autobiography and come to a chapter talking about the late 80s. He was drunk through most of it and didn't remember much. In the chapter he talked about riding around in a limo with several friends in Nashville one night. He said he didn't remember anything about where he was, because of a lot of substances and four gallons of vodka. He might not have known where he was, but I sure did. He was onstage with me at the Third Coast Cafe'.

There are a few stories of those. Some of my favorite singers and writers getting up to sing, me being very excited only to find them nine sheets in the wind. or just plain worn out. A lot of times you just wish it had not happened. Ruins your heroes.

I don't really think EC is like that as he has been sober for decades now. But there was a time he was going through some really bad times, even getting into a racist rant onstage in England. Took him years to live that down. Shades of Micheal Richards.

I guess there is a time to call it quits for everyone and it varies with the individual. I do hope I have good enough friends that would tell me, although I think I would know myself first. With YOU TUBE, FACEBOOK, INSTAGRAM, etc. and the non-ending camera phone moment, you will probably see yourself on video, and get a good dose, no one would have to tell you anything.

#1172652 - 12/21/20 11:57 PM Re: Bell Bottom Blues [Re: 9ne]  
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Interesting reading guys!
FD
I'm ok with "everybody" except me. I'm okay with differences of opinion, I won't get angry, I won't hate, I won't put a contract out on you, and I certainly won't draw a moustache and glasses on your picture....

John and Martin:
I hear ya, I saw him live twice, ( I plead insanity for the second time or the fact it was a free ticket ) Thank God for the recordings...

Marc:
Good reading!

What you guys go through compared to the big names is obviously a much different situation. Yes, they may have paid their dues but you're still out there year after year in often less than ideal conditions, (understatement ) and for little financial benefit. You're the soundtrack for OUR night out, wedding, dance etc. Much respect to all who do this...and please continue.


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=170948

I think what makes satan so attractive to others is
that he tastes like chocolate...
....and he played real drums

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