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#1171117 - 11/15/20 11:21 AM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: John Voorpostel]  
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Sunset Poet Online content
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POST OMEGA

John

I appreciate your post and I do not include you in people who label me various derisions. You have called (me) out specifically for diminutive labels, "dims", in the past and as far as I have seen...you have been consistent with that principal yourself. I admire you for that.

Because I voted for Trump...I have been labelled and lumped in with...deplorables, facists, nazis, neo nazis, white supremecists etc ...by all sorts of idiots including relatives with TDS. I am none of those things, except maybe deplorable.

I watched CNN propagandists, night after night, put together panels of "expert" propagandists who were privy to nothing, yet asserted inarguable evidence that Trump would be handcuffed by Mueller within days. That climaxed with a tired old man before congress appearing to have command of nothing.

The current call for a re-count in a few states and specifically democrat controlled urban centers is nothing compared to the Mueller farce that went on month after month.

My entire life I have known that political machines stuffed ballot boxes and committed other crimes...such as the Watergate burglary. You could fill volumes with documented political convictions for various forms of voter manipulation. LBJ was first elected to congress on the basis of what, is now, considered to be a rigged election west of Austin. (google it) That is how his political career started. Consider how it ended.

I voted for Trump because of overall policy. It has never been lost on me that he is an abrasive and bizarre freak. His demeanor cost him the soccer moms and others and a recount would very likely sustain the current outcome.

But for the sake of trying to put the issue to bed (to whatever extent is realistic), and so that people like me can believe in elections going forward...I would like to see the mail-in ballots in GA and PA scrutinized carefully, one at a time and checked against the voter rolls.

Going forward I am going to refer to this post as "POST OMEGA." In the future if I respond to one of your posts with "REFER TO POST OMEGA,"...please come back and re-apply this post to the future one.






#1171119 - 11/15/20 12:52 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Martin, many years ago I was heavily influenced by an anecdote that was told about the 1860 Oxford Evolution Debate around The Origin of The Species. It is pretty famous in establishing that theory in the minds of people and giving it validity

It has also been cited in other debates as far as I am aware

The story goes that one participant, Bishop Samual Wilberforce, asked another, Thomas Huxley, whether he thought he was descended from apes though his grandfather or grandmother.

Reportedly, this is when he lost the debate. By getting personal and abandoning the question, he sent a clear signal his viewpoint had no validity. By deploying a personal attack strategy, you attack the messenger and not the message.

Now I am far from perfect here, I will admit. I have definitely lost it in the heat of the moment

But this anecdote was a seminal one for me.

For someone like me who enjoys a good debate, it was an important lesson. Debate the point, not the person.

Cheers.



If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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#1171124 - 11/15/20 03:00 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Sunset Poet]  
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Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
... Because I voted for Trump...I have been labelled and lumped in with...deplorables, facists, nazis, neo nazis, white supremecists etc ...by all sorts of idiots including relatives with TDS. I am none of those things, except maybe deplorable. ...


I wouldn't call you any of that because you voted for trump. The reasons you often stated are good enough for me. But when you say that the only good outcome to this made up conspiracy theory on "massive fraud" is that trump be declared president, it certainly leads me to think that you are anti-democracy and you want a illegitimate person to be president for life. Sorry, but when you cry out for fascism, it is hard to avoid the fascist moniker.


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in YouTube videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1171125 - 11/15/20 04:05 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
... Because I voted for Trump...I have been labelled and lumped in with...deplorables, facists, nazis, neo nazis, white supremecists etc ...by all sorts of idiots including relatives with TDS. I am none of those things, except maybe deplorable. ...


I wouldn't call you any of that because you voted for trump. The reasons you often stated are good enough for me. But when you say that the only good outcome to this made up conspiracy theory on "massive fraud" is that trump be declared president, it certainly leads me to think that you are anti-democracy and you want a illegitimate person to be president for life. Sorry, but when you cry out for fascism, it is hard to avoid the fascist moniker.


POST OMEGA 2

Kevin

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Facism? You label me a facist? You dont even know what facism means.

When you say ridiculous defaming crap, it is hard to avoid the idiot moniker. But I am trying.
Where have I ever said that the only good outcome is Trump for President?

I have stated clearly that I want the winner to be the winner. If that is Biden, then that is Biden. If Trump then Trump.
I DO NOT WANT DONALD TRUMP TO SERVE IF HE WAS NOT DULY ELECTED. read my prior posts.

But I dont FULLY trust the election results and want them verified in GA and PA. Truly verified. VERIFIED. NOT SIMPLY OVERTURNED.
I will not take the word of people, such as yourself, who pass on bad information and defaming monikers because they cant read a reality beyond their emotions.
And we both fully know that if all of this was coming down to mail-in ballots cast in North Alabama and Biden was the loser...you would be declaring the opposite of everything that you are saying now. There is no doubt of that. It was clear when you stated that you were upset with Comey and company for not stopping Trump's presidency regardless of means or legality.

it is the faulty thoughts and proclamations of mind's such as yours, Kevin, that add fuel to the desire to confirm the election. I dont think that you care what means are used to get Trump out. That makes people such as you a threat to the rule of law and democracy and paper ballots.

In the future I will refer to this as "POST OMEGA 2."

So if you decide to assassinate my character again, I will refer you back to it.





#1171126 - 11/15/20 04:09 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Sunset Poet]  
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Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
...Where have I ever said that the only good outcome is Trump for President?


Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Martin do you honestly believe the voter fraud allegations will go away? ...


They will go away if Trump wins. ...



Did you mistype or did I misread?

P.S. I don't believe I called you a fascist, I said you were supporting a fascist.

Last edited by Kevin Emmrich; 11/15/20 04:12 PM.

"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in YouTube videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1171127 - 11/15/20 04:21 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Sunset Poet Online content
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Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
...Where have I ever said that the only good outcome is Trump for President?


Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Martin do you honestly believe the voter fraud allegations will go away? ...


They will go away if Trump wins. ...



Did you mistype or did I misread?

P.S. I don't believe I called you a fascist, I said you were supporting a fascist.


"It's hard to avoid the facist moniker?" Get real for once.

That statement was passed through the limitations of your filters. Here is an explanation JUST FOR YOU.

If Trump were to be declared the winner of the election tomorrow, his voters would celebrate and move on to whatever the next
sh tstorm is. Figuratively speaking...THEY WILL GO AWAY.

AS FOR ME...
I voted for Trump and prefer the policies of a Trump admin to Biden...
BUT NOT IF HE IS NOT DULY ELECTED. THAT WOULD SUBVERT THE CONSTITUTION. I have stated that over and over.

I assumed that those dots were easily and readily connected when I wrote what has become your fixation. I did not anticipate that anyone could twist it into an adolescent definition of facism.

Consider this "POST OMEGA 2.1"







#1171129 - 11/15/20 05:28 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Sunset Poet]  
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Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
Japov

Hillary Clinton rightfully won the last election. Trump should never have been president at all. You know that and I know that.
In conspiracy with Trump, the Russian's planted stories and memes on Facebook about pizza making pedophiles that got into our brains and caused you and me and millions like us to change our vote from Clinton to a vote for Trump. You know that is what you did. Do not deceive yourself.

Now at this time.... the same people who pushed that farce, both at large and here on JPF want to label you and me paranoid cultists freaks for even considering the possibility that democrat machines in urban settings may have taken possession of and perverted mail-in ballots. It begs the question...How likely is it that they would not do that?

And we are enemies of democracy for even wanting it thoroughly investigated?
I don't think that we are. I think that democracy is at risk if you dont take a look....regardless of the findings.

It is an old saying...."Consider the source."


LOL... This is truly awkward for me considering I'm mostly Sicilian wink

#1171132 - 11/15/20 07:48 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Sunset Poet]  
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Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Now Trump is complaining about the Georgia recount -- calls it a waste of time. His reasoning: you can't match signatures anymore. Those horses have left the barn. Might as well stop it then and certify the election.

In other news, Kayleigh (I will never tell a lie) McEnany says that 1 million MAGA marchers descended on DC. Are there any trump supporters left that know what shame and decency are?



How about this guy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=digRNl-tmKI

Very misleading editing. Notice the way several of the clips end with an unnatural abruptness. Biden is talking about no new drilling on Federal lands. This is the problem of relying on "news" provided by political action organizations like ATR, which is explicitly opposed to the notion that climate change is real.

Having said that, Biden's statements on fracking do seem to be pretty muddled. On the broader issue of fossil fuels, his aim of gradually eliminating the vast majority of their uses is a worthy one. I'm not sure that it's doable 100%, but as renewables become increasingly cost competitive, their use can be drastically reduced for everyone's benefit.

#1171133 - 11/15/20 07:50 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: JAPOV]  
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
Japov



LOL... This is truly awkward for me considering I'm mostly Sicilian wink

No you're not - you're German. It's right there in your avatar.

#1171135 - 11/15/20 08:11 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54910344

Obama uses the expression "truth decay," which pretty much sums up what I'm always banging on about here, alternately boring and annoying you all, and on occasion, no doubt managing to do both.

#1171141 - 11/15/20 09:12 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Gavin Sinclair]  
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Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
Originally Posted by JAPOV
Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
Japov



LOL... This is truly awkward for me considering I'm mostly Sicilian wink

No you're not - you're German. It's right there in your avatar.


"mostly".... MOSTLY Gavin... The devil's in the details smile

#1171143 - 11/15/20 09:26 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Gavin Sinclair]  
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Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54910344

Obama uses the expression "truth decay," which pretty much sums up what I'm always banging on about here, alternately boring and annoying you all, and on occasion, no doubt managing to do both.


"Truth Decay...?"
It's gonna' take a lot more than Jo Biden and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to wash Obama out of my mouth!

#1171144 - 11/15/20 09:28 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Gavin Sinclair]  
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Sunset Poet Online content
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Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Now Trump is complaining about the Georgia recount -- calls it a waste of time. His reasoning: you can't match signatures anymore. Those horses have left the barn. Might as well stop it then and certify the election.

In other news, Kayleigh (I will never tell a lie) McEnany says that 1 million MAGA marchers descended on DC. Are there any trump supporters left that know what shame and decency are?



How about this guy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=digRNl-tmKI

Very misleading editing. Notice the way several of the clips end with an unnatural abruptness. Biden is talking about no new drilling on Federal lands. This is the problem of relying on "news" provided by political action organizations like ATR, which is explicitly opposed to the notion that climate change is real.

Having said that, Biden's statements on fracking do seem to be pretty muddled. On the broader issue of fossil fuels, his aim of gradually eliminating the vast majority of their uses is a worthy one. I'm not sure that it's doable 100%, but as renewables become increasingly cost competitive, their use can be drastically reduced for everyone's benefit.


Kid yourself if you need to...

I know that the clips were sawed off to omit the full context.
But when you say something that many times, the truth belies the parsing of words and context.

"We are going to get rid of fossil fuels" ....Context?

Gavin, I voted for Trump but I am willing to admit when he lies and/or exaggerates and/or distorts the truth.
You forever make excuses for your preferred liars and then claim to be objective.

Please sit down before you read my last sentences. You are not. Not even close.

PS..
I'm sorry but I think its better to tell you the truth with the hope that you can come to terms with it and take you mind and soul back from your masters.



#1171145 - 11/15/20 11:42 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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LOL, I was already sitting down. All I said was that the clip was deliberately edited to be misleading, not that Biden never lies.

Now that you bring that up, though, you were stacking Kayleigh McEnany up against Biden, as if they were equivalents in the lying stakes, and that's an absurd piece of what-aboutism.

I'm just going to disregard your PS, rather than following the usual forum practice of turning it back in your direction. smile

#1171146 - 11/15/20 11:58 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: JAPOV]  
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54910344

Obama uses the expression "truth decay," which pretty much sums up what I'm always banging on about here, alternately boring and annoying you all, and on occasion, no doubt managing to do both.


"Truth Decay...?"
It's gonna' take a lot more than Jo Biden and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to wash Obama out of my mouth!


I don't think Obama came up with the phrase, but it's a really useful expression for what we are seeing, not just here in the US, but all over the world. An indication of how far this has gone is that NewsMax is now siphoning off a lot of Fox News viewers. The dynamic in its demographic has evolved from supply side disinformation, where a constant stream of falsehoods creates an audience demand, to demand side disinformation, where an audience craves falsehoods that fit with what they need to hear and goes looking for a new source when the original disappoints. In this imaginary universe, Biden didn't win the election, and no prizes for guessing who is tweeting NewsMax a lot these days smile

This is a really hard discussion to have because everyone seems to believe that everyone else is brainwashed.

#1171147 - 11/16/20 01:10 AM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Gavin Sinclair]  
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Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
Originally Posted by JAPOV
Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54910344

Obama uses the expression "truth decay," which pretty much sums up what I'm always banging on about here, alternately boring and annoying you all, and on occasion, no doubt managing to do both.


"Truth Decay...?"
It's gonna' take a lot more than Jo Biden and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to wash Obama out of my mouth!


I don't think Obama came up with the phrase, but it's a really useful expression for what we are seeing, not just here in the US, but all over the world. An indication of how far this has gone is that NewsMax is now siphoning off a lot of Fox News viewers. The dynamic in its demographic has evolved from supply side disinformation, where a constant stream of falsehoods creates an audience demand, to demand side disinformation, where an audience craves falsehoods that fit with what they need to hear and goes looking for a new source when the original disappoints. In this imaginary universe, Biden didn't win the election, and no prizes for guessing who is tweeting NewsMax a lot these days smile

This is a really hard discussion to have because everyone seems to believe that everyone else is brainwashed.


You are a riot Gavin! If the numbers don't add up then the controls are wrong. If we disagree then somebody is brainwashed. If someone says the same thing over and over again then it must have been taken out of context. If the news is biased then that's just supply and demand...

Let's start another control, shall we? Please answer this question: 1+1=?

#1171162 - 11/16/20 12:37 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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In the latest news, the Reps have now withdrawn Penna lawsuit allegations their poll watchers were not allowed access to counting 682 thousand plus ballots

Now they are still seeking to block certification on the grounds Democrat voters were more favourably treated, more specifically, alleging only Democrats were allowed to "cure" ballots...which is legal..the lawsuit also seems to have dropped assertions of organized widespread voter fraud

Facts only, no added editorial on my part

https://globalnews.ca/news/7464863/us-election-pennsylvania-trump-lawsuit/


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#1171163 - 11/16/20 01:06 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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It is hard to tell what is actually going on.

Left-wing media says that it is all futility.
Right-wing media says that the final victory will be theirs.

One reasonable viewpoint...
Guliani and company are in over their head and throwing all sorts of stuff at the wall, much of which is not sticking. The media is heralding every loss as a death knell.
Guliana et al are trying to narrow the focus to things that are more effective, relying hopefully on more qualified lawyers than themselves.

John
I'm not following it closely because I dont have the expertise to evaluate political lawsuits and dont trust any media to provide solid information. My hunch is that the lawyers are trying to pare down their efforts and focus on the confusion and intent of the rule changes in PA. And I SUSPECT that they are trying to establish that various rules became scattered and unevenly enforced...therefore in violation of some statutes established during Bush - Gore.

I have no idea what kind of success that they will have.

BUT HERE IS SOMETHING TO KEEP YOUR EYE ON...I think that it is reliable that Trump got something to SCOTUS prior to 11.03 and the court deadlocked in a tie as Barrett did not participate. It is fairly reliable that Alito left the door open on that issue with a public statement. If the repubs get that issue back to SCOTUS with other grievances...this could become more entangled and more of a threat.

Will they get it back?....IDNK. (I DO NOT KNOW.) Am watching to see.

#1171164 - 11/16/20 01:27 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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As I remember the Alito decision, it was that votes had to be segregated because the Penna SC made a ruling regarding mail in ballots to preserve the rights of voters in the face of the pandemic

...So SCOTUS ruled votes should be segregated should the need for further action arise. There was no ruling on the validity of the Penna SC decision...

The Horse's Mouth

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/20pdf/20-542_i3dj.pdf


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#1171166 - 11/16/20 01:42 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: JAPOV]  
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
Originally Posted by JAPOV
Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54910344

Obama uses the expression "truth decay," which pretty much sums up what I'm always banging on about here, alternately boring and annoying you all, and on occasion, no doubt managing to do both.


"Truth Decay...?"
It's gonna' take a lot more than Jo Biden and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to wash Obama out of my mouth!


I don't think Obama came up with the phrase, but it's a really useful expression for what we are seeing, not just here in the US, but all over the world. An indication of how far this has gone is that NewsMax is now siphoning off a lot of Fox News viewers. The dynamic in its demographic has evolved from supply side disinformation, where a constant stream of falsehoods creates an audience demand, to demand side disinformation, where an audience craves falsehoods that fit with what they need to hear and goes looking for a new source when the original disappoints. In this imaginary universe, Biden didn't win the election, and no prizes for guessing who is tweeting NewsMax a lot these days smile

This is a really hard discussion to have because everyone seems to believe that everyone else is brainwashed.


You are a riot Gavin! If the numbers don't add up then the controls are wrong. If we disagree then somebody is brainwashed. If someone says the same thing over and over again then it must have been taken out of context. If the news is biased then that's just supply and demand...

Let's start another control, shall we? Please answer this question: 1+1=?


Um...but the numbers do add up. I went to great pains to prove that this video is deliberately deceptive and so far nobody has even tried to disprove that. As for the controls being wrong, that would require a vast conspiracy of poll workers, with Republican, Democratic and independent affiliations, with none of them blowing the whistle. Fat chance! As someone who eschews wild conspiracy theories, I'm going to go for the glaringly obvious answer that more people actually voted for Biden.

I didn't actually say that everyone was brainwashed. I said that people on each side seem to believe that the other side is, which makes it hard to discuss anything. Of course, that would imply that I think certain people are brainwashed, and Marty has certainly made it clear (in the nicest possible way because he's Marty) that he thinks I am. So, yes, these beliefs do make it hard to discuss the actual facts of the matter.

Besides, my border collie is smarter than your German Shepherd smile

#1171167 - 11/16/20 01:57 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: John Voorpostel]  
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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
As I remember the Alito decision, it was that votes had to be segregated because the Penna SC made a ruling regarding mail in ballots to preserve the rights of voters in the face of the pandemic

...So SCOTUS ruled votes should be segregated should the need for further action arise. There was no ruling on the validity of the Penna SC decision...

The Horse's Mouth

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/20pdf/20-542_i3dj.pdf


I am not going to try to interpret the link and its implications. Dont have the expertise.
Never been to court, but I have been involved in two settlements. What I learned is that even "Black Letter Law" becomes arguable and equivocal.

You can keep putting up your play by play if you like. But, at this point, I'm not going to try to second guess anything else. Regardless of how I think that this will ultimately turn out.... I dont have the background that makes it at all meaningful. And am not there. I can only hope that this concludes with meaningful transparency regarding the mail-in ballots themselves.

WHY THIS WONT JUST GO AWAY?

GA
15000 vote lead for Biden
1.2 million mail ballots mostly from dems
https://www.ajc.com/politics/early-...election-day/76JRESFLMVEYBGX2J7AAGKABQ4/

Common sense tells you that the possibility of 15000+1 fraudulent ballots in a population of 1.2 mail-ins is not at all impossible.


#1171171 - 11/16/20 02:29 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: John Voorpostel]  
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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
In the latest news, the Reps have now withdrawn Penna lawsuit allegations their poll watchers were not allowed access to counting 682 thousand plus ballots

Now they are still seeking to block certification on the grounds Democrat voters were more favourably treated, more specifically, alleging only Democrats were allowed to "cure" ballots...which is legal..the lawsuit also seems to have dropped assertions of organized widespread voter fraud

Facts only, no added editorial on my part

https://globalnews.ca/news/7464863/us-election-pennsylvania-trump-lawsuit/



Well... all this tells me is that Pennsylvania allowed ballots to be cast however they liked and counted however they liked. Notice that there's no mention of how each ballot was initially certified, or how each ballot cannot currently be certified.

#1171173 - 11/16/20 02:55 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: JAPOV]  
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
In the latest news, the Reps have now withdrawn Penna lawsuit allegations their poll watchers were not allowed access to counting 682 thousand plus ballots

Now they are still seeking to block certification on the grounds Democrat voters were more favourably treated, more specifically, alleging only Democrats were allowed to "cure" ballots...which is legal..the lawsuit also seems to have dropped assertions of organized widespread voter fraud

Facts only, no added editorial on my part

https://globalnews.ca/news/7464863/us-election-pennsylvania-trump-lawsuit/



Well... all this tells me is that Pennsylvania allowed ballots to be cast however they liked and counted however they liked. Notice that there's no mention of how each ballot was initially certified, or how each ballot cannot currently be certified.


Joe Biden told you that there was nothing to worry about there. Why can't you accept that?

#1171175 - 11/16/20 03:21 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Again...... and again........ The problem here is not with the poll workers, that's just a distraction. The problem is that the majority of mail-in ballots were never certified, just counted. As evidenced by the fact that it's impossible to certify them now because the envelopes, stamps, and signatures are gone. All these Democrat states are saying the same thing over and over again, "Our poll workers did their job and counted the votes," but none of them are saying anything about where all the mail-in ballots actually came from, or how they were confirmed to be legal votes from actual American citizens. I want drivers license numbers to be matched with social security numbers, and names, birth dates, addresses and phone numbers to be confirmed! If I can't get a Kroger card without this information then why should I be allowed to vote? I see this whole mess going before the Supreme Court... simply because THE ELECTION CAN'T BE VERIFIED.

Gavin, your collie may be smart but my shepherd will not run smile

#1171189 - 11/16/20 06:28 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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I don't know why you are saying "again....and again." I don't recall you bringing this up before. Maybe I missed it. smile

I'm not sure what you mean by certified. I thought that was a term used to apply to the whole election, not individual ballots.

If you mean, were the ballots checked for correctness, then I guess that still comes down to the poll workers...
Stamps - they would have to have deliberately accepted ballots in envelopes postmarked after election day.
Envelopes & Signatures - they would have to have accepted unsigned or otherwise deficient envelopes or not verified that the signature matched the one on file.

I might be misunderstanding the point you are trying to make. I am not as smart as my avatar. My uncles in Shetland used to have collies for their sheep. They were fantastic to watch, and boy were they smart!.

#1171192 - 11/16/20 07:19 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Trump Tweeted a 2012 NYT article spelling out the perils of absentee ballots.
The gist of it is that the ballots lend themselves to fraud and corruption.
The big issue is verification.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/...ulty-ballots-could-impact-elections.html

Nothing has changed except that the NYT hates Trump....so this article has become an inconvenient truth

Excerpts from article

There is a bipartisan consensus that voting by mail, whatever its impact, is more easily abused than other forms. In a 2005 report signed by President Jimmy Carter and James A. Baker III, who served as secretary of state under the first President George Bush, the Commission on Federal Election Reform concluded, “Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud.”

"In 2008, Minnesota officials rejected 12,000 absentee ballots, about 4 percent of all such votes, for the myriad reasons that make voting by mail far less reliable than voting in person."


#1171193 - 11/16/20 07:32 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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True story... Max, Dixie, and Desiree were a trio. Max was a good boy, he would always stand guard close to home. Dixie, however, figured out that, with enough patience, she could chew and unravel the bottom of a chain link fence! SHE WOULDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO DIG. Anyway, the girls liked to get out and terrorize the neighborhood whenever nobody was watching. On such occasions I would tell Max to get his leash and we would go after them. Max could always sniff them out, I would call out "Dixie" and Max would bark and pull me in the right direction. This became something of a routine and I could tell that Max really enjoyed it. Well, one day I was out back barbecue'n some chicken and, of course, realized that the girls had gone missing again. Not wanting to leave my fire unattended, I looked over at Max and asked, "Where's Dixie?" Max's ears popped up as he lifted his head and looked at me. Then I asked, "Where's Desiree?" Now Max is on his feet with his head cocked to the right waiting for a command. Then I said, "Go get'em boy!" Sure enough, five minutes later he rounded the girls up and brought them home. His chicken dinner that evening was well deserved and I never had to go chasing after the girls again smile

#1171196 - 11/16/20 08:39 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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True story...we had a border collie named "Bobbie" when I was a kid

We were living in a rural area at the time with corn fields either side of our property.

Playing hide and go seek with my dad, we could not find him...I was about 5 or 6 ...so we told Bobbie "Go find dad"...and he took us right to him...no hesitation...a few rows deep in the field.

Dogs can definitely understand what we want...some are just smarter than others.


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#1171198 - 11/16/20 09:54 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Looks like trump was never about stopping terrorism after all...

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/16/mcconnell-trump-afghan-troop-reduction-436821

#1171203 - 11/16/20 11:21 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Seriously Fd? The terrorists are trying to steal the Fu--ing White House! Why isn't anyone talking about the violence in DC Sunday night?

#1171205 - 11/17/20 12:46 AM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Lol don't be like John W Japov... where the rebuttal is always something about dems.

This is about Trump pulling out of Afghanistan and repubs not agreeing.

Trump was never really a republican president . he was a dem at one time and has changed parties 5 times.

This is a Republican verse Republicans issue

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/17/20 12:48 AM.
#1171206 - 11/17/20 02:59 AM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Lol don't be like John W Japov... where the rebuttal is always something about dems.


You're slipping FD, I didn't say Dems... But it's good to see you're paying attention wink

#1171208 - 11/17/20 08:58 AM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Is it getting close to the point of recognition where the majority of folks realize that trump's mendacity and conspiracy theory ridden comments are on the verge of damaging America? I mean the guy is totally AWOL in doing the job of being president. He is spending all of his time spreading lies and figuring out ways to damage the incoming administration. It is past time for the 25th amendment.

No evidence of voter fraud, no evidence of computer take over, no evidence of anything that says biden is not the rightful winner. I know some of you are saying "prove to me that fraud DID NOT happen" , which is sort of me saying that "aliens have landed on earth". You go "show me proof". I say "Prove that it didn't happen".


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in YouTube videos. "
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#1171210 - 11/17/20 10:09 AM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Kevin

The problem that you have Kevin is that so many people have real world experience and common sense. As stated above, 1.2 million mail-in votes were cast in GA. The winning margin was 15,000. An urban dem machine with control covering a margin that small and further assuming that the forgeries could be discarded before scrutinized and would get lost in the mix... is not hard to imagine. It needs to be verified.

It appears that the write-ins were not carefully qualified. In PA and maybe Ga, the means to qualify them was discarded.

per the NYT article in 2012, mail-ins lend themselves to fraud and pose a risk. Now...in a Trump election...they are presented as virtually flawless by the same NYT.

With 1.2 million votes lending themselves to fraud and so many people such as yourself who want Trump out so bad that the means justifies the end....

Well, the more you insist that I believe the results on their current face...the more I want them scrutinized. And if that never happens...then the doubt never cures. Which is also very bad for the country.

Common sense suggests that verification is what the country needs. And i just cant figure out what is hurt by verification.

"Trust but verify" or maybe just "verify"

#1171211 - 11/17/20 10:43 AM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Georgia 100% verifies signatures. I am glad you have real world experience and common sense so you can decide what is best for me.


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in YouTube videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1171212 - 11/17/20 11:05 AM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Martin, I'm with Kevin here.

We use "big picture" arguments like controls exist to create the voter rolls in the first place and the numerical controls on ballots exist to allow tracing..... and bi partisan assertions on the state level and a DHS news release that point to or agree the poll counting was fair.... to argue the election was not rigged. Add to this numerous court cases that have already been thrown out and important law firms that have withdrawn their services that we have also mentioned. They are big picture pushback for sure.

However, none of this is good enough, and you use use "big picture" arguments to say that given your personal experience, mail in ballots are most likely fraudulent because of their inherent weaknesses and big city democratic machines, so you want Atlanta and Philadelphia under the microscope.You don't advocate this for anywhere else where there are mail in ballots so I expect you feel things are OK elsewhere or at least better than in PA and GA

Our Big Picture is somehow deficient while yours is somehow OK. Your real world experience and common sense should prevail here...even without any evidence in this instance...and even though it goes contrary to findings over the years by experts, scholars and Trump's own 2016\17 commission who found nothing, none of the millions of votes Trump asserted were fraudulently cast against him

Most of this I have said before...except for the part that our big picture is somehow invalidated by yours in your eyes.

Not an attack, you are entitled to think like you do. I'm just stating what things look like to me.

IMO the saddest part in all this is that there will always be a segment of the US population who will never accept that 2020 was not somehow stolen from Trump and the Republicans. That cannot help but have repercussions. There's already violence in the streets, limited for now, but given Trump is still asserting the theft, and that it is not a stretch to think he will continue this line, a logical outcome is that the extreme elements will emerge to take action, because in their view, the law did not, is not, and will not.


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#1171213 - 11/17/20 11:12 AM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Georgia 100% verifies signatures. I am glad you have real world experience and common sense so you can decide what is best for me.


Trump is complaining that he cannot get that information. That makes it hard to verify.

As for you Kevin...No one is deciding what is best for you...

After suggesting that I cant truly escape being labelled a a facist because I gave a realistic assessment of what Trump voters would do if he was re-elected.
And because of a discussion about the "we wont let him" texts between Struk and his mistress...in which you stated that you were upset with Comey and crew for not getting Trump out regardless of means.
And on another occassion, I recall asking you for a blanket condemnation of the rioting in Seattle etc. I recall you not giving it.
And because people who hold such tribalistic positions characteristically weaponize and throw around labels such as facist, nazi and anti-democracy when their arguments are frustrated.
And because such definitions of "facist" are not even accurate.

I hold your opinions suspect because you seem to frustrate easily and I am not sure whether you follow principal or tribe.

#1171214 - 11/17/20 11:17 AM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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John

Without evidence...?

If you were a detective and you had the lawyers of thieves doing everything that they could to block you from accessing where you believed "evidence" to be.

"if i does not fit, you must acquit."

Would you just finally go ..."Well okie-dokey."

Common sense wont a let a reasonable and objective person give the okie-doke.
Common sense says lets take a good look.

And there is no need to be so sad...Just open everything for scrutiny and verify.



#1171215 - 11/17/20 11:24 AM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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POST OMEGA 3

And John....

For the sake of future discussion....

As a practical matter...FOR ME...THIS ISSUE WILL BE DONE WHEN SCOTUS EITHER REVIEWS IT OR REFUSES TO REVIEW IT.

The doubt may not disappear but it will be time to move on to whatever is next at that point. Oswald? Kennedy? Jack Ruby? After all these years, I still wonder what connects the dots, yet life goes on.


In the meantime what you and Gavin and Kevin proclaim will, realistically, carry little sway with many of us.

As you say, you are entitled to your opinions.

#1171219 - 11/17/20 12:07 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Martin if you believe that Democratic Machines in Philadelphia and Atlanta have organized voter fraud and are doing all they can to prevent others from investigating then there is little anyone can do or say.

So let events run their course. Georgia is in the middle of a recount, so your wish is being granted. No one has stood in the way there and time will tell if state election officials and state republicans were right in asserting all was done properly

In PA where there is a constitutional challenge seeking to invalidate all mail in ballots....we will see how that unfolds. It is going to court per latest news

We will also see how things unfold elsewhere...MI, AZ WI etc. So far lawsuits have not gained much traction there, but heh, ....

In the meantime, I am sure we will be continue to "call em as we see em" smile

Gotta go and make some money ...



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#1171220 - 11/17/20 12:26 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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One little tidbit I noticed in reading about Giuliani appearing in a case today in Pennsylvania. The judge is an Obama appointee but long time Republican. Remember the days when that was possible? I wonder if it will ever go back to the days when judges were appointed on merit.

#1171222 - 11/17/20 12:39 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Is it getting close to the point of recognition where the majority of folks realize that trump's mendacity and conspiracy theory ridden comments are on the verge of damaging America? I mean the guy is totally AWOL in doing the job of being president. He is spending all of his time spreading lies and figuring out ways to damage the incoming administration. It is past time for the 25th amendment.

No evidence of voter fraud, no evidence of computer take over, no evidence of anything that says biden is not the rightful winner. I know some of you are saying "prove to me that fraud DID NOT happen" , which is sort of me saying that "aliens have landed on earth". You go "show me proof". I say "Prove that it didn't happen".


Hmmmm... So, Democrats are all beanpods from outer space here to take over the Earth... Makes perfect sense to me!

#1171223 - 11/17/20 12:45 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: John Voorpostel]  
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Sunset Poet  Online Content
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,313
Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Martin if you believe that Democratic Machines in Philadelphia and Atlanta have organized voter fraud and are doing all they can to prevent others from investigating then there is little anyone can do or say.

So let events run their course. Georgia is in the middle of a recount, so your wish is being granted. No one has stood in the way there and time will tell if state election officials and state republicans were right in asserting all was done properly

In PA where there is a constitutional challenge seeking to invalidate all mail in ballots....we will see how that unfolds. It is going to court per latest news

We will also see how things unfold elsewhere...MI, AZ WI etc. So far lawsuits have not gained much traction there, but heh, ....

In the meantime, I am sure we will be continue to "call em as we see em" smile

Gotta go and make some money ...



Please refer to "POST OMEGA 3" smile



#1171224 - 11/17/20 12:48 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,897
Fdemetrio Online content
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Fdemetrio  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,897
Did the election happen yet? Anybody know the result?

#1171225 - 11/17/20 12:56 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,938
Kevin Emmrich Offline
Kevin Emmrich  Offline


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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,938
Crozet, VA


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in YouTube videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1171226 - 11/17/20 01:25 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Jun 2019
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JAPOV Online happy
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JAPOV  Online Happy
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#1171227 - 11/17/20 01:45 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: JAPOV]  
Joined: May 2017
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Conover, North Carolina, USA

That is the least far-fetched video I have seen here.

#1171231 - 11/17/20 04:08 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Fdemetrio]  
Joined: Aug 2007
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Sunset Poet Online content
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Sunset Poet  Online Content
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,313
Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Did the election happen yet? Anybody know the result?


The lawyers and judges are currently in the process of voting.

#1171234 - 11/17/20 07:34 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: JAPOV]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 667
Pat Hardy Offline
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Pat Hardy  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by JAPOV
Trump didn't start this "fraudulent election" crap, the Democrats did! The only thing that the last four years of investigation into " Russian collusion " has proven is that the Democrats have been in bed with Russia and China all along! That's why I keep saying, "The Democrats are just pissed because Trump beat them at their own game." This time around, the Democrats had to pull out "All The Stops" to beat Trump, and as a result the evidence of voter fraud is obvious! TRUMP HAS KNOWN THIS ALL ALONG! What did you think "Draining The Swamp" was going to look like? Trump's greatest adversary has been the media ALL ALONG! Clinton only conceded in 2016 because the Democrats knew, despite their cheating, Trump still beat them! Now we have an election that, despite a world wide pandemic, seems to have broken every voter turnout record in the book?!? How can any reasonable person conclude that this election has been typical of any other, so the results should be honored just the same? ESPECIALLY IF THE ONLY INFORMATION WE HAVE TO WORK WITH IS FROM THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA?!? Sorry, but at this point, if these Democrat cities aren't held accountable, these same cities that have been rioting and burning for the last year... we will be hard pressed to have another fair election in this country ever again. To accuse Trump of personal bias after the last four years of Democrat obstruction tactics and media manipulation is just absurd! If the Democrats had any integrity left at all, they would be insulted by the allegations of fraud and work to clean this mess up for themselves! But, as usual, the Democrats just want to piss on my back and tell me about the weather forecast...



The riots are occuring on Trump's watch. Riots occur in cities, urban areas tend to vote democratic, but that has no causal relationship to rioting. Protests and riots are a reaction to policy brutality, and all Trump does is blame 'democrats". Trump blames everything on everone else but himself. He lies incessantly, promotes conspiracy theories, talks like an idiot.


Trump is the only president in history, long before the first ballot was cast, to say "The only way democrats can win is if they rig the election".

No president prior to Trump would make such a blatant attempt to undermine democracy like that.

OVer and over and over again, Trump declared the free press "the enemy of the people".


No president in history would do that. They, unlike Trump, know that without a vital and free press, regardless if you like them or not, for without them, there would be no democracy. Its not your gun that protects you from tyrranny, what stands between tyranny and democracy is vital and energetic free press.

Fraudulent? ARe you kidding.?

Manafort provided key polling data to a Russian Spy whereupon Putin used that data to target specific populations in key states to help Trump. Trump encouraged Russia, welcomed their help, and did nothing about it. The Mueller Report Documented 130 instances of contacts with Russia, 10 cases of Obstruction Of Justice, of which Mueller stated Trump is not exonerated by the report. And then there is the Senate Judiciary report, over twice the size of the MR

I have no idea why Trump is complaining about 'mainstream media' when media have his campaign far more coverage than any other candidate, hell, they practically elected him.

Republicans have gerrymandered most of the districts across America, and purged 1.1 million mostly dems from voter registration rolls in 2016 ( via Interstate Crosscheck program, an effort by Kansas Secy of State Kris Kobach who partnered with 29 red states ), and closed over 1000 voter polling places in the south mostly in black neighborhoods resulting in long lines, reports of waiting 11 hours in some places.

I could write a book on this, but why bother, republicans don't care. I mean, look at the guy they elected, This is guy who....

The guy who squelched the health care of his grand-nephew, a toddler with cerebral palsy, out of vengeance to spite his deceased brother's estate who are suing him because he cheated them out of their inheritance,
The guy who schtupped a porn star, paid her $130,000 hush money, got his attorney jailed and threw him under the bus,
the guy who was fined $2,000,000 for charity fraud,
the guy who helped russian mobsters launder millions for decades,
the guy was negotiating to build a hotel in Moscow, and told the American public he had nothing going on in Russia,
the guy who admitted on Howard Stern that he likes to barge in while teens are dressing to "inspect" them during pageants,
the guy who dissed a war hero because he likes people 'who weren't captured',
the guy who brags about grabbing women's genitals because, as a celebrity, he can get away with it,
the guy who settled $25,000,000 in a class action lawsuit for screwing thousands out of millions for a fake university,
the guy who said some mexicans, he presumes, 'are good people',
the guy who said, as president 'I take no responsibility',
they guy who said 'there was blood coming out of her eyes, there was blood coming out of her...wherever'
the guy who said 'it doesn't really matter what they write as long as you've got a young and beautiful piece of ass.
the guy who said 'if she weren't my daughter, I'd be dating her'
the guy who said asked Russia, on TV, to commit cyber espionage on a candidate,
the guy who has 25 women accusing him of sexual misconduct, some acts of which he bragged about,
the guy who was sued over 100 times for not paying contractors,
the guy who once tried to use eminent domain to screw a widow out of her home so he could build a limo garage,
the guy who screwed over the good townspeople of Aberdeenshire Scotland so that he could build a golf course there......


Imagine of these were attributed to Obama? I mean, repubs had a conniption when he wore a tan suit.

There is no evidence of 'dems stealing the election'. On Fox, dems are being accused of all sorts of sordid things. Well, why aren't Trump's lawyers bringing
proof to court? I mean, 22 lawsuits and ALL of them are duds. Not one made it to trial. All of them were thrown out of court. See, y'all can make all sorts of wild claims on TV and on the internet, but in a court of law, you can't mess around, you have to have bona fide evidence. So why didn't Trump's lawyers bring all this evidence to court?

You want to know why?

The reason is simple.


There isn't any.


It's all hyperbole, lies, lies, and more lies. Trump et all are a NOISE machine. Undermining democracy doesn't make America great.


When Trump had 306 electors ( though he lost the popular vote by almost 3 million ) he claimed he won by a landslide.

Well, Biden has won the popular vote by over 5 million votes, and has 306 electors, but I don't hear any republicans acknowledging Biden's landslide.

But Biden is not claiming a landslide. That is because Biden, unlike Trump, does not engage in hyperbole.

Biden has won, and the nightmare is over. We made America great again, by getting rid of Trump. Make no mistake about it,, he will go down as the worst president in history























.






Last edited by Pat Hardy; 11/17/20 07:42 PM.
#1171235 - 11/17/20 08:56 PM Re: Voting Pattern Discrepancies Impossible [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,938
Kevin Emmrich Offline
Kevin Emmrich  Offline


Top 10 Poster

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,938
Crozet, VA

This is Kevin and I approve of Pat's message!


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in YouTube videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
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