JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Prophecy anyone?

Here is video #1 of a 62 video series by Hal Lindsey that takes you through the book of Revelation chapter by chapter. Why post this on a songwriters site you ask? Simple... inspiration. I, like Hal, am not your stereotypical Christian. I, like the Bible, do not evangelize. The Bible simply presents itself as a historical, and mostly verifiable truth. If it's not in the Bible then I am generally very quick to dismiss "religious dogma". However, I do find the truth to be a very powerful and inspirational motivation to write... especially with regard to prophecy. I find the Bible, particularly Daniel and Revelation, to be obviously more relevant today than when they were written thousands of years ago; which, of course, is the very nature of prophecy lol... I challenge anyone to watch this series and try to deny the timely relevance of prophetic scripture. But, even if you can deny it, you should still be inspired...

https://www.hallindsey.com/videos/revelation-part-1/793/

Oh, and of course, I welcome any open discussion

Thanks for posting this. I will check it out when I get time. The bible is being fulfilled every day but those that don't read it do not see it happening.

I have no doubt you'll enjoy it Everett, Hal shows clearly how overlooked passages from the old testament define seemingly "symbolic" imagery in Revelation. The book really isn't open to interpretation, the Bible interprets itself... especially NOW!

By Hal Lindsey

On May 10th, amid hundreds of rocket attacks against Jerusalem, the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs released the following statement. “We call on the international community to condemn the rocket fire and Palestinian terrorism targeting Israeli citizens in the strongest manner, as well as to support Israel’s right of self-defense.”

Why should they even have to make a statement? If any other country received a massive, unprovoked rocket attack aimed at its civilian population, the world would be outraged. Leaders would be stepping all over one another in their rush to condemn such barbarity.

But in this case, the world mostly condemns Israel. Some nations and international organizations have given tepid acknowledgement of Israel’s right to defend its civilian population. But they always call on Israel to “show restraint.” None of them — not one other nation — would show restraint in its response to such a hideous attack on the civilians of its national capital. They would attack with ferocity. Israel, on the other, does show restraint, often compromising their military response in order to avoid civilian casualties. Remember that Hamas loves to put its military operations in the middle of civilian population centers.

Israel’s critics would have us believe that this started with Israeli “interference” on the Temple Mount. US Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, tweeted, “Al Aqsa… [is] a sacred site for Muslims. This is equivalent to attacking the Church of the Holy Sepulchre for Christians, or the Temple Mount for Jews.”

But, for several reasons, that makes no sense. Muslims frequently attack Jews on the Temple Mount. It’s a regular thing. Muslim authorities and Palestinian police forbid Jews to pray on their most sacred ground, and that’s been going on for decades. Even after taking back East Jerusalem during the Six-Day War of 1967, Israel put their holiest site, the Temple Mount, in the control of Muslims. They did it in the interest of peace.

In anticipation of “Jerusalem Day,” Palestinians gathered at the site, collecting rocks, bottles, Molotov cocktails, and other makeshift weapons. When they started to riot, Israeli police entered the area. Today, Muslims use this “sacred site” as a place from which to plan and launch violent attacks on Israeli civilians and police.

The recent rocket barrage from Gaza has been different from earlier attacks. This time, Hamas is targeting the old city of Jerusalem itself — Islam’s so-called “third holiest city.” Why are they bombing their holy city? Why not bomb other Israeli cities? Maybe it’s not so holy to them after all.

The immediate beneficiary of all this has been Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas. In a May 10th opinion piece for the New York Post, Jonathan S. Tobin wrote, “Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas wants to divert attention from his decision to postpone elections again as he serves the 17th year of a four-year term to which he was elected in 2005.”

Imagine the world outcry if any other leader carried on a four-year term for 17 years. Imagine the anger if any other leader kept setting dates for elections, then postponing them year after year. Abbas’s Palestinian Authority regime is corrupt through and through.

Meanwhile, UN and various leaders around the world continue to attack Israel… for defending itself!
----------------------------------------------------------

How far we've come in just 153 days............

Not only are Jews being attacked in Israel, they are being attacked in most countries of the world. Is this what it will take for Jews world wide to return to Israel where God can protect them through the tribulation period that is coming soon. Most people that hate the Jews don't know why they hate the Jews, it is a spiritual thing, if they don't posses the Spirit of God, they are open to be led by the spirit of antichrist, which is prevalent in this world today more than ever. Most of the media is antichrist in spirit and they spin the news to make the Jews look bad and the people are led to follow their lead.

1 Timothy 4
1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons

2 Timothy 3
1But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, slanderers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, 4treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5holding to a form of godliness although they have denied its power

John 16
1“These things I have spoken to you so that you will not be led into sin. 2They will ban you from the synagogue, yet an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering a service to God. 3These things they will do because they have not known the Father nor Me.

Matthew 24...

What a time to be alive! Hamas is backed by Iran, who is backed by Russia and China... All the major players are now in motion. Funny how a tiny country, smaller than the state of Massachusetts, surrounded by its enemies, full of the most persecuted people in history, survives despite all odds and demands the world's attention. It'll be interesting to see what happens when Israel starts drilling in the dead sea...

Anyone who tries to direct people's attention to God's word, the Bible, does a very worthwhile thing.

But, a word of caution. We want to be someone who, "correctly explains the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2: 15)

In the 1960s, several religious groups began making predictions about what would take place in the mid-70s into the 80s. They based their predictions on their interpretations of certain sections of the Bible.

These were Jehovah's Witnesses, The Worldwide Church of God(Herbert W. Armstrong), and Hal Lindsay, among other small fry.

None of their predictions ever came true.

It is quite natural to be curious as to how God's purpose will unfold ( see 1st Peter 1 :12). It's another thing altogether to mislead others with false
predictions and even more serious to profit from it.

When the apostles asked Jesus if he was restoring the kingdom to Israel at that time, Jesus pointedly told them, "The Father alone has authority to set those dates and times, and THEY ARE NOT FOR YOU TO KNOW." (Acts 1:6, 7)

Even Jesus did not know. (Matthew 24:36) See also
Deuteronomy 18:21, 22 concerning false prophets.

The Apostle Peter himself said that Paul's letters were hard to understand and that some were "twisting them." (2 Peter 3: 15, 16)

So, from time to time, someone will come along and make predictions they claim are "Bible-based". Inevitably they are proven wrong.

These predictions only serve to demoralize those who are misled and, more importantly, cast God's word and the Good News in a bad light, providing ammunition for scoffers.

For about $100, you can pick up some very reliable Bible study materials and a few outstanding translations. These are easily understood and will help an honest hearted person appreciate the Bible as the spiritual and historical treasure it is.

I was recently asked by an old, old friend if the US coin shortage had to do with the number of the beast. I offered the advice above.

It's good advice.

Scripture quotations are from the New Living Translation. Please forgive any typos. I was using my phone.

The One World System is on it's way in as tyranny becomes the rule. Unfortunately, the media propaganda has worked on so many people, and less & less folks (even many Christians I know) take time to read and understand the Bible.

Hal Lindsey has been criticized since 1970, when he published his first book "The Late, Great Planet Earth". He's been labeled a "doomsday prophet" and accused of making false predictions for more than 50yrs now, but I challenge anyone to name one. Hal would be the first to tell you that he's no prophet... just a messenger.

The most important thing to understand about the Bible is that prophecy is, and always has been, the proof of God's word. Without old and new testament prophets there wouldn't be a Bible, and without Christ's own fulfillment of prophecy we wouldn't have the promise of His return, Christianity.

It's certainly true that "No man knows the day or hour" of God's judgment. However, prophecy is given so that no one will be "fooled" by false prophets. The antichrist will be powerful and fool many, but when Christ returns "every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that He is King of kings and Lord of lords" because there will be no doubt. That, of course, is the prophecy that Christianity is founded upon.

It doesn't matter what Lindsay calls himself, or what his intentions are. He probably has good motives.

What matters are the results of what he publishes. When he SELLS a book called "The 1980s...Countdown to Armageddon", and the 80s come, go, then recede into the distant past, it results in disillusionment among his readers and brings reproach on the God of the Bible, as well as his son, Jesus Christ. People associate Christians with secular kooks who also make predictions.

Anyone interested in the Bible and its prophecies is praiseworthy. Just be careful what you promote.

In all sincerity Grouch, I'd really like to know what Hal said that has you so riled up... Give us a quote.

I'm not riled up. But I think people who make false predictions in God's name are bad for the Good News, regardless of their intentions.

I gave a quote...the title of his book. I have nothing against him personally and I believe those who agree with his teachings are sincere.

It's my opinion that he focuses too much on geopolitics. Read the New Testament letters. There's nothing in there about 1st century geopolitics. But that's just my opinion.

"""I'm not riled up. But I think people who make false predictions in God's name are bad for the Good News, regardless of their intentions."""

===Well, as previously stated, deceiving spirits and false prophets are the reason that prophecy was given. And by the way, the return of Christ and our redemption IS the GOOD NEWS===

"""I gave a quote...the title of his book. I have nothing against him personally and I believe those who agree with his teachings are sincere."""

===OK, so you haven't read it... and consequently, you have no idea just how sincere Hal Lindsey is===

"""It's my opinion that he focuses too much on geopolitics. Read the New Testament letters. There's nothing in there about 1st century geopolitics. But that's just my opinion."""

===A'hemmm... geopolitics is the reason Christ was crucified considering the Romans occupied Jerusalem 2000yrs ago; Which, again, was the fulfillment of prophecy===

For the record Grouch, I AGREE WITH YOU. Taking the Bible out of context "IS" very dangerous. The Bible has an undeniable continuity that must be acknowledged as a whole. Otherwise, none of it is true...

I don't think your post addressed what I said.

Yes, Jesus' death was a fulfillment of dozens of Old Testament prophecies.

That's irrelevant regarding Lindsay, whose predictions have never come true. If they had, you'd be listing them.

I've never read any of his books because the titles of his books (like one named above) raise lots of red flags. Profiting from books with iffy predictions might cast doubt on his sincerity. I think his adherents are sincere, if a tad misled.

I'll say it again...neither Jesus or the apostles said anything regarding the geopolitics of the times. Jesus said Jerusalem would be destroyed by Rome for its unfaithfulness (as it was in 586BC by Babylon), but that wasn't political, it was a passing of Yahweh's judgment.

It is my opinion, and only my opinion, that Christians
should focus on what they were focused on.

I've said all I can say on the subject. Any more, I'll just be repeating myself.

My only motive for posting was to raise awareness of the Bible's silence on matters which religious figures like to make declarations, often for profit.

The Bible is full of prophecies...all of which come true, setting it far apart from hucksters.

Well, I'm not a professional writer like you Robert... So, I can't discern the content of a book from its title. I have to do it the old fashioned way...

"It is my opinion, and only my opinion, that Christians
should focus on what they were focused on."""

I have to ask... What "were" Christians focused on?

You don't need to be a writer to know that a book called "1980s...Countdown to Armageddon" might contain dubious information.


1st Corinthians 1:18-2:5 is a good passage as to the simplicity of what Paul preached. "Christ, and him crucified."

You can read the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7) In about 20 minutes. Most of the New Testament letters can be read in less than half an hour. Galatians focuses on salvation by faith rather than works of law. Peter's letters are mostly about Christian living. Counsel for the family, obeying the government, looking forward to the heavenly reward.

They can be a little daunting if you're unfamiliar with ancient customs but the message is clear. I don't know why but Hobby Lobby has excellent prices on Bibles. You can get an English Standard Version study Bible for $30. It has copious footnotes and is an outstanding resource. I got mine for $20 but the price went up.

You can be offended by what I said, especially if you like Lindsay's books. That wasn't my intention. It's more important that honest people know the Bible doesn't support what most religious leaders say, or how many of them behave.

I'm more confused than offended lol... You're a writer criticizing another writer, and you admit that you haven't read his book.

Look, the more you continue to pick and choose what you seem to like from your $20 Bible and dodge the issue of prophecy, the more I'm convinced that you just want to argue. I'm not going to be lured into a scripture slinging contest with you, but I will do what the Bible says and test you... Who is Jesus? Are you a Christian?

Your questions are answered in what I've already said.

There is only One Truth Robert, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. Philosophers make very poor witnesses for Christ... I highly recommend that you read your entire Bible; And, since you're already so knowledgeable, you should start with Revelation.

Sometimes a title has to be provocative to get the attention of the people to read the book or listen to a song. The content of said book or song may have the opposite meaning from it's title. I've done that with several of my gospel songs. I've read at least one of Hal's books and I've watched a number of his videos and I find he is sincere in his teaching and his beliefs, he may not be right all the time, but who is. Many will take a verse from the bible and make it say different things to suit their own belief. Those that never read the bible are the ones that can more easily be led astray. When Jesus said "except a man be born again he can not see the Kingdom of God", it was not a suggestion but a condition for entering Heaven. Still some people will try to twist this to suit their own beliefs. When Jesus said He was the only way to the Father, some still say there are many ways to Heaven. Some say the bible is not the word of God. God says my people perish for the lack of knowledge. Some believe, some choose not to believe, that is freedom of choice. I choose to believe.

If you are sincerely giving direction's to a football stadium and get it wrong...that is one thing.
If you are declaring that God is returning and that cilvilzation as we know it will be completely transformed by the end of the year...you need to be absolutely certain and correct.

Back in Bham I saw people quit their jobs on the word of professional "rapturist calculators." Doesnt't the bible take a dim view of "false prophesy?"

Well said.

It was not my intention to publicly criticize fellow Christians but to alert them to someone whose predictions may sound "deep" on the surface, but have always proven false.

I didn't need to watch Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker back in the 80s to know they were grifters. It was obvious.

Furthermore, these guys bring reproach on the Bible,
just as they in Jeremiah's day, and in the 1st century.
And it's not just them, but religious figures who love the limelight, being seen at prominent events, rubbing shoulders with politicians and celebrities.
(Matthew 23)
Equally bad.

Let's keep this in context...

(Matthew 23) Hypocrisy Exposed

1Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, 2saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses.

===This means that they, “The scribes and the Pharisees", were the highest authority in in Israel at that time; The leaders and the keepers of Mosaic law. However, in order to maintain their authority, they pledged loyalty to Rome===

3Therefore, whatever they tell you, do and [a]comply with it all, but do not do [b]as they do; for they say things and do not do them. 4And they tie up heavy burdens and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as their finger. 5And they do all their deeds to be noticed by other people; for they broaden their [c]phylacteries and lengthen the tassels of their garments. 6And they love the place of honor at banquets, and the seats of honor in the synagogues, 7and personal greetings in the marketplaces, and being called [d]Rabbi by the people. 8But as for you, do not be called [e]Rabbi; for only One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers and sisters. 9And do not call anyone on earth your father; for only One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10And do not be called [f]leaders; for only One is your Leader, that is, Christ. 11But the greatest of you shall be your servant. 12Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled, and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.

Eight Woes

13“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut the kingdom of heaven in front of people; for you do not enter it yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.[g]

15“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one [h]proselyte; and when he becomes one, you [i]make him twice as much a son of [j]hell as yourselves.

16“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the [k]temple, that is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the [l]temple is obligated.’

===Remember "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's"? Pledging fealty to Rome didn't just secure the Pharisees' authority, it also made them rich===

17You fools and blind men! Which is [m]more important, the gold or the [n]temple that sanctified the gold? 18And you say, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, that is nothing; but whoever swears by the [o]offering that is on it is obligated.’ 19You blind men, which is [p]more important, the [q]offering or the altar that sanctifies the [r]offering? 20Therefore, the one who swears by the altar, swears both by [s]the altar and by everything on it. 21And the one who swears by the [t]temple, swears both by [u]the temple and by Him who dwells in it. 22And the one who swears by [v]heaven, swears both by the throne of God and by Him who sits upon it.

23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and [w]cumin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the Law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. 24You blind guides, who [x]strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

25“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full [y]of robbery and self-indulgence. 26You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the [z]outside of it may also become clean.

27“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28So you too, outwardly appear righteous to people, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

29“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs for the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30and you say, ‘If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31So you testify against yourselves, that you are [aa]sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32[ab]Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. 33You snakes, you [ac]offspring of vipers, how [ad]will you escape the [ae]sentence of [af]hell?

34“Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will flog in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, 35so that upon you will fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the [ag]temple and the altar. 36Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

===Does this not sound prophetic? Nothing has changed much in 2000yrs, read the judgement upon the churches at the very beginning of Revelation===

Grieving over Jerusalem

37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘BLESSED IS THE ONE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!’”

===The prophecy here should be obvious...===

2 Questions Tony....

Is someone named Hal Lindsay a prophet? Jack Van Empe?

Question 2...Are there better places to post all of this than a songwriting site?

Is someone named Hal Lindsay a prophet? Jack Van Empe?

===Hal and Jack are no more prophets than I am, just messengers===

Question 2...Are there better places to post all of this than a songwriting site?

===I don't know Marty, what inspires you?===

I'm not sure it was necessary to post MT 23 in its entirety, but ok.

Jesus' prophecy is obvious. Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70AD.

None of which is relevant to Hal Lindsay, whose predictions have never come true. The only tribulation the 1980s were a countdown to was Please, Hammer, Don't Hurt 'em.

Including Hal Lindsey in with the same crowd that actually names demons and sets dates is just wrong... and you would know that if you actually gave him a fair listen. As I previously said, prophecy is the proof of God's Word, and if ANY part of God's Word is false then it's ALL false. You can't pick and choose what you like from the Bible... YOU are never going to change GOD'S mind.

JAPOV is actually kind of an inside joke lol... considering how long mankind has been debating the validity of God's Word

I'll bite. What is the difference between a messenger and a prophet?

True prophecy is a gift of God...

Revelation 22-12

12“Look, I am coming soon, bringing my reward with me to repay all people according to their deeds. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”

14Blessed are those who wash their robes. They will be permitted to enter through the gates of the city and eat the fruit from the tree of life. 15Outside the city are the dogs—the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idol worshipers, and all who love to live a lie.

16“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this message for the churches. I am both the source of David and the heir to his throne. I am the bright morning star.”

17The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” Let anyone who hears this say, “Come.” Let anyone who is thirsty come. Let anyone who desires drink freely from the water of life. 18And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.

20He who is the faithful witness to all these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon!”

Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!

21May the grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s holy people.

Understood. But if Hal Lindsay and Jack Van Empe are messengers?...Where do "messengers" fit into the overall scheme of things?

Ahhh... I think I see where you're headed lol, I'll play.

A messenger simply reiterates the Bible

My turn...

When a messenger takes it upon himself to identify the actual time that Christ returns? ...Doesn't he assume prophet status?

Absolutely!

OK...So if this Lindsay fellow made a call on the return and busted out?...
Is he not a failed prophet? And doesnt that make him a false prophet? And doesnt God take a dim view of false prophets?

Blasphemy, heresy and so forth?

Yes.

Tic, Toc... I can save you some time if you're researching...

There are prophets ,preachers, teacher and evangelist. Prophets hear directly from God, preacher preach from the word of God, teachers teach the word of God and evangelist take the word of God to other churches and other countries. No one other than God the Father can know the exact time of His Son's returning, but Jesus said you can know the season by the signs of the times. Matthew 24 give you a list of signs to watch for to tell that the time is close, not the day or the hour, but the season. As in the days of Noah when sin was rampant, God took out the only righteous people to safety and flooded the earth to cleanse it of sin. Anyone that names the exact day or hour is a false prophet but anyone that points to the signs is doing what God expects us to do, warn the sinner so he/she can repent and be saved. If we don't warn them, then we can be held responsible. If they don't listen, then we are not responsible.

I am not researching Tony. I'm indulging a curiosity. Thanks for the answers.

Robert,

This may be your most thoughtful and helpful post here. For the religious, it should offer focus and cast away hyperbole . To the non-religious, it is still reasoned, measured, focused and rational.

People predicting the end is nigh should take heed. They may have good intent, but they should refocus on these fundamentals and reflect on their actions, approach, outlook and prescriptions to others.

Thanks,

Brian

1 Corinthians 3
1But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? 4For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human?

Hebrews 5-11
11About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

You can bow and pray five times a day to a can of pork-n-beans and call it a religion, but the Bible is the Word of God.
Only half of the truth may gain your attention and make you feel good about yourself, but it will not sustain you. Again, Christ's Revelation opens with His judgment upon the churches! That should tell you something...

People have been trying to hold Hal Lindsey accountable for other's math and imaginings for a long time now. Hal Lindsey has never named the antichrist or set the date for Armageddon. He has in fact reiterated what is written in the Bible, translated directly from the original Hebrew and Greek.

I won't bother wasting anyone's time listing all the various scriptures, But 2000yrs ago, prophets described Israel as being reborn, surrounded by its enemies, ultimately being besieged by kings from the north, invaded by a 200,000,000 man army from the east, and despised by all nations. Among many other signs and global troubles, Christ Himself said...

Matthew 24
32“From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

36“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. 37For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

So, what are we supposed to do with this information? As a believer, should I keep it a secret so I don't offend anyone? What do we see NOW... Today? Should I secretly praise God for His revelation, but advise you to keep your eyes closed? The day when God will remove His restraining Spirit from this Earth is obviously near.

Proverbs 25-2
It is the glory of God to conceal things,
but the glory of kings is to search things out...

Romans 12-2
2Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

Seeking God's will, wisdom, and prophecy is its own reward. If you're not seeking God's will, then you must only be serving your own. We are watchmen on the wall, don't let God find you asleep ... remain diligent.

Thank you, Brian.

JAPOV, the Old Testament prophecies you refer to (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel etc) were fulfilled in 586BC when Babylon invaded from the north, destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, then took the survivors into exile for 70 years, after which Cyrus the Great allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the temple. (This is detailed in Ezra and Nehemiah, two outstanding historical books that can both be read in under two hours. Explanatory footnotes in a study Bible such as the English Standard Version are very helpful)

Do those Old Testament prophecies have a further fulfillment? Possibly. Many Biblical prophecies do. But when and how is a matter of speculation. Religious leaders got some things right concerning Christ's first coming. The rest they got wrong.

Peter wasn't appointed an Apostle because of his knowledge of geopolitics. It was because when he saw one of Jesus' miracles, he fell on his knees and said, "Depart from me, Lord, for I am a sinful man." (Luke 5. I think)

As I understand it, Lindsay claimed Armageddon would come within one generation of the establishment of the Jewish state of Israel in the 1940s.

JW's made a similar prediction about 1914. Both obviously false.

By promoting Lindsay to such a degree, you are inadvertently falling into the trap you warn others about in 1st Corinthians 1 and 3, saying "I belong to Hal Lindsay."

Lastly, Matthew 24 says nothing about the restoration of Israel.

Pick, choose, and opinionate all you like Robert, I'm not arguing with anyone. Some appreciate the finer points of God's prophetic revelation and some don't... but arguing about it sets precisely the poor example that you accuse me of; Which, I actually believe is your intent. Ignoring the prophetic signs of the times is not only your God given prerogative, it was also predicted.

The book of Revelation opens with...

1This is a revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants the events that must soon take place. He sent an angel to present this revelation to his servant John, 2who faithfully reported everything he saw. This is his report of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

3God blesses the one who reads the words of this prophecy to the church, and he blesses all who listen to its message and obey what it says, for the time is near.

And concludes with...

20He who is the faithful witness to all these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon!”

Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!

21May the grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s holy people.

It's Christ's final word to mankind and His promise to return. Yes, it will be unpleasant... but absolutely necessary. That's God's TOUGH love folks, don't kill the messenger.

God's messenger, the Apostle John, wrote Revelation. I have the highest faith in God, his Son, and their messenger John, to whom they gave the Revelation.

It's Hal Lindsay I question. And with good reason.

All I can do is refer you to the top of this thread and the link provided Grouch. But, if you won't watch...

Hey Couch...I agree with Brian about your understanding and reasoning and balanced expression ...you have been holding out

FWIW I believe any faith that builds fences around itself trying to monopolize their version of the truth has an inherent problem.

I've read but not studied The Bible but I do know Christianity did not start with Jesus and his followers but with Paul and from there it was marginalized until adopted by Constantine as the state religion. The orthodoxy or story of Christianity and Jesus was not written in stone so to speak until the Council of Nicea and they had gospels that were not written until after the death of their authors AND gospels and teachings they tried to bring together 325 years of early Christian belief that had various viewpoints of Jesus and God. But history has gifted this world a number of other important faiths and belief systems ...all worthy of respect and all form an important part in the lives of their followers

Still, faith in Jesus as the Son of God is strong in many here and I respect that.

To the heart of this....judged against the major prophets and messengers, this Hal Lindsey is a blip and reflection of a time and place where freedom of expression and religion and commercial activities can all be rolled into one for an opportunist to gain some mindshare and dollars for himself. Far too many rich evangelists to mention. And the fallen from grace for sexual impropriety is legion. As the wise Will Durant said in The History of Civilization...A man's virtues are his own, his vices a reflection of his time

Hi John, and thank you for your well thought out comment. It's a view that is widely held by learned people.

Christianity did begin with Jesus, and it had actually spread quite far before Saul of Tarsus' conversion. (Later known as Paul).

The church itself began at the Jewish festival of Pentecost that followed Jesus' crucifixion. This is detailed in Acts 1-8 written by Luke, a physician and capable researcher and historian. See Luke 3:1, 2 for an example. Paul persecuted the church for some time before his conversion.

The 12 Apostles were the spearheads of Christianity,
one of requirements for apostleship was being an eyewitness of Jesus' ministry, crucifixion and resurrection. Peter and John appear to have taken the lead early on.

Paul wrote many letters to the early churches, which expand on quite a few Christian doctrines, already in place, such as salvation apart from works of law, and salvation for the Gentiles. These letters agree with other New Testament writings by Peter, James, Jude and John.

One thing they ALL warned about (including Jesus) were false prophets corrupting the church.

This can be read in Acts 20, 2 Peter 2, the letters of John and Jude.

After the death of the apostles, there was nothing to
counter false teachings and the church was gradually corrupted. One only has to read the two letters of Peter (supposedly the first Pope) and compare them to speeches by modern Popes. Or to 1st Clement (one of the oldest non-Biblical documents), a letter written by the supposed 3rd or 4th Pope.

There are many counterfeit writings from the 2nd, 3rd and 4th centuries, but they're easily identified. They don't agree with Biblical writings at all.

By the time of the Council of Nicea, Christendom barely resembled the Christianity of the Apostles. This can best be seen by reading the New Testament and becoming familiar with it.

Many will say Christianity was supposed to "evolve".
On that note, find a Bible and read Galatians 1: 8, 9.
Also, Jesus taught he was the "Way, truth and life".
The only way to Almighty God is through him, his only begotten Son.

Jesus also taught that many false prophets would arise, misleading many.


Worship of the one true God, Yahweh, existed and was unfolding long before Christianity. I wrote something for Facebook awhile back that I can send
you as a PM if you're interested. Or I can post it here if folks want to read it.

It's about the length of a short story.

I agree with the 1st statement. Constantine fought the battle at the Milvian Bridge to re-unite the Roman Empire. It is said that he motivated his army by promising to make Christianity the official religion of the empire if they won him possession of it. That motivator would not have been possible if the army was not already full of Christians and the population at large was not full of Christians. I read that Constantine's own mother is said to have been a believer prior to the battle.
Legend has it that Constantine also conveyed a vision of a giant cross in the sky on the eve of battle. I can't say. Wasnt there to see it.

Regarding the Council of Nicea. It was convened about 325AD. That was about 300 years after Jesus. In a time when life was completely brutal, rumors rampant and technological communications were non existent...I am not sure what can be trusted to be authentic and authenticated. In addition to that much of that history comes from historians who needed to write things favorable to the emperors. For that matter, other than biblical accounts, I think that Josephus and one other historian were the only outside-the-religion accounts of Jesus that exist. And both accounts have been characterized as incidental to various main concerns.

It is my understanding that Constantine pulled the Catolic leaders together and said..."This stuff is a fragmented mess. Boil it down to something that I can sell." (Paraphrased) Imho...Constantine may have been the single biggest spreader of the-word to have ever lived.

It seems that this world is going to end tomorrow.
I didnt know that until this morning, so I guess I should say goodbye now.

Here is the info

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/weird-news/old-bible-prophecy-says-world-24180859

There is such a thing as duel prophecy. The Babylon of the bible was destroyed before Jesus was born but the Babylon of Revelation is future, yet to come. In Revelation there is mention of Babylon the great and mystery Babylon. Over the years this was thought to be Rome, but now some think it is the USA. The bible says Babylon has fallen, has fallen, why say it twice. Maybe there are two Babylons, one spiritual, one commercial, I don't know, but this Babylon is yet to be destroyed. Jesus spoke of the fig tree, which is Israel, when it puts forth tender leaves you know summer is nigh and this generation shall not pass away before His coming. In 1948 Israel became a nation but not fully until 1967 when they regained Jerusalem, their Capital. Was it the generation alive in 1948 or 1967 that shall not pass before His returning, we don't know. No one can know the exact day or hour or even year, but we can know the signs of the season of His coming, and they are fast falling into place.