JPF Home Page Forums Lyric and MP3 Feedback MP3 Feedback Forum Live By The Gun

Hey Floyd,i was raised on western music so this one really hits the old homestead.Great feel to it.Mike

Marty, who is to say Spirit didnt hear Page riffing on it while on tour, and decided to make a song out of it, before Page did first?

If zep did steal it, they stole a minor scale. The entire song is way bigger than that

and if you want to dig deeper, how will spirit write this one off? Hes older than both groups. And this guy stole it from classical music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWeejHJxGjs

Who's to say that this website is not controlled by a Martian. Have you ever actually met Brian in person? And if so, how do you know that he is not from Mars? People vouch for him? How do you know that they are not Martian?

did u watch Davys Video? Davy has a stronger case than Spirit, and he never said a word

[quote=Martin LideFWIW...I think that Gocart is wrong. Your song is just as good as Stairway.
[/quote]

For the record, I never said that. I too like Floyd’s song better than Stairway. I’ve always despised Stairway!

Dave

For the record, I never said that. I too like Floyd’s song better than Stairway. I’ve always despised Stairway!

Dave[/quote]




I meant Fd when I wrote that. Apologies.

Floyd...there you have it.

Let's put this into context. We were talking about critiques, and how people bs each other way too much here.

I said nobody here has written anythjng remotely close to stairway to heaven, and I'm correct. I did not single out Floyds song, for that assessment.

You have yet to address the issue of Martians running this website. Until that is dealt with, these other things can wait.

when that is done, then...Is Floyd's song not written by somebody here? Is this thread, where such statements are being made...not featuring his song?

First things first....martians.

The science does not support that Martians are running this website. While it is entirely possible that Mars once harbored some form of life, albeit probably microbial, it would have had its heyday way before the Grunge, and therefore may have been a couple of years early to be online.

What aspect of science are you siting?

Non pseudo science, like you are proposing,

I'm not worried about Martians now that we are to have a Space Force. This site is now secure.

Man your vocals always sell your stories with power and emotion.
Your production here is as always, pro stuff.

That spaghetti western guitar panned left is a perfect fit.


Nicely done

Floyd,

Sill here marooned on this desert island reading that 400 page thesis on my last tune, but I read the commentary on your cinematic cowboy song and I guess I really have no answer except to post the thread I posted when I almost got kicked off the forum.

https://soundcloud.com/davidsnyderchannel/just-plain-folks

http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1143987.html#Post1143987


Hope you keep slinging' hot lead brother, and never forget the most famous lines in the history of movies:

"Fill your hands, you son of a b........"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-cPWheNyaA

Why do we post our songs?

I think what most of us want from posting our songs is a "soft-critiquing experience" --not unlike what you get when you play a new song in public. Some people will like it..but if not enough people like it, then you look closer and then maybe change it. But note: we tend to "own" the changes we make and not allow the possibility that someone's idea might be good. This is especially true if the person with the idea presents it in a way that puts us on the defensive..which brings me to..

Rob..this is just my opinion..but I believe there are NO songwriting/story-telling rules that are iron clad like the rules of mathematics. Every songwriting rule, hell, every music theory rule, is created in HINDSITE by giving examples of how composers/lyricists deal with various musical/lyrical problems in their particular era..and how, if you travel through the time-line, the problems and problem solving changes over time..things against the rules in 1840 are fine in 1940, for example..

If we site a "rule" as to why something doesn't work in a song, we are doing things all backwards. The best we can do is say "this doesn't work for me" and then give reasons why. Then given enough feedback, the songwriter can decide for himself/herself. So consider that maybe it's your presentation that kindled defensiveness, and then "off topic talk" that was subconciously trying to diffuse things... Please don't treat songwriting or story-telling "rules" like fundamentalists of various creeds treat their particular texts..

I have been away, been busy..and I am not back except for this post..then I'm gone again for awhile as I'm still really busy..but I left with this koan haunting my brain..I wanted to know what was motivating me, because I can have "complicated" reactions to criticisms about my work, and that forced me to deal with this bit of self-knowledge that's been eluding me since I joined here.

I mean, I SAY I want honest feedback, and then when I get it, it can hurt, and I sometimes then watch as I get defensive and then react in an ugly way..I really REALLY don't like seeing myself get ugly, and try to avoid it at all costs..I'm neurotic like that, living a life of "avoidance" at times..but if I'm feeling ugly and then just letting it fester, out of avoidance, that's probably worse, lol..the secret, for me at least, is learning how to "let go" of these things, cuz as a friend recently reminded me, "in the bigger picture, how important is this stuff?"

Learning to communicate effectively is an ongoing process for most. I am still learning how to do this. I have a strong desire to get better at it, and I can go weeks feeling depressed after I say something inflammatory, and even longer if something like that is said to me..and so there's that Skinnerian desire to avoid that kind of pain that fuels the desire to communicate better as well..

Floyd, I think it's a bit disingenuous to say it would need to be an 8 minute song. You know that a word or two, properly placed might do the trick. And to have to say that "everything I did was thought out" doesn't rule out the possibility that some people still won't find your story lacking, thought out or not. Personally, I enjoyed the song but the reveal of it possibly being the son was not satisfying to me. It did seem to come out of nowhere. But change it and give foreshadowing, some folks, I'm sure, would say "I knew the son was gonna kill the dad early on"

But if you come to the conclusion that there's possibily a more satisfying ending to your song, I'm sure it could be a fun challenge for you, threading that needle so that motivation is given, but the conclusion not given away..and I bet it wouldn't take a lot of words to do it. Just maybe a properly placed adjective, or a line or two.

I am just starting a series on TV called "The Sinner" --starting with the first season, and in the first minutes of the first episode, Jessica Biel's character kills a total stranger, a man, on the beach..and then next 8 eposides work to create an understanding of her, psychological and otherwise, because that is what drives much story-telling, at least in today's world. Motivation. We crave it! We'll watch 8 episodes of mostly back story so we can understand why she did it!

But a good story-song is, to me, like "pitching a story in four minutes or less, in verse and rhyme" When screenwriters pitch their TV series', they use broad strokes delivered passionately and quickly, in the hopes the TV exec gets swept up in their vision before boredom sets in.

And in this day and age of rapid change and uncertainty over our futures, understanding a character's motivations can help us feel just a tad more grounded.....overstated? Yeah, probably, LOL..forgive me that..

but character motivation is important..

and how we talk to eachother is so damn important in regards being able to "hear" each other..

and (I bet) we are ALL more sensitive than we care to show in our public personas...

Mike

It is true that most of us say we don't mind crits, and they do hurt when we get one. First thing most of us do is look to see if that person has something posted, so we can decide if the crit matters or not.

If we were rock stars or country stars, we would still have possibly millions of people who hate our music anyway.

Any listener can offer I like this or I don't like this.

Crits work best for songwriters looking to get songs published or cuts. That's the only situation where fixing so,etching might matter....although I kind of doubt it, again if a publisher loves your two verses and chorus, but doesn't like the bridge, he's not going to let the song get away if it's that good in verse and chorus.

That's like seeing a beautiful girl and saying, well, I might date you if you wore different pants....u ain't letting her get away if she likes you.

So usually, if something is weak or off, it basicly is a way of saying the song is not that good anyway

I mean how many times did somebody pitch a song, a publisher says, I love the verse and chorus, but the bridge is weak, so I'll pass...

Nah, greatness is not gonna walk in the door every day. They'll make sure it's fixed...

Soooooo,

I think this is really really good. No pontificating from me, I just liked it as a song

God Bless from me and Helen

Hi Floyd:

I really enjoyed what you did here. Enjoyed the words, music and your unique vocal. For some reason, this one seems to have struck a few sensitive nerves here, LOL! I suppose any "publicity" is a good thing... at least in Hollywood... but it's a good song. It tells a story and leaves enough to the imagination of the listener for them to hear it in their own peculiar way... or not. Critiques are fine as long as they remain constructive and somewhat supportive. Talk is cheap but writing a song that packs a tale like this one into less than four minutes is sheer genius.

IMHO, the "argument" that the son shot his father does not hold water. That is not what you sung... it implied the shooter COULD HAVE BEEN his son! ...and, what if it was? You are telling a tale. Not all stories (or songs) are required to have "happy endings!"

Kudos, Floyd.

Sorry I'm late. Been working hard to clean up my little catalogue and re-cut many of my songs. I have no suggestions or crits... just admiration for the job you did. Damn the torpedoes, my friend... full speed ahead!

Re Live By The Gun should have been titled

Don’t Live By The Gun

To preach is to deliver a sermon or an otherwise powerful message. ... If you're
giving an impassioned speech about recycling to an audience dressed in
reclaimed clothing and sandals made of old tires, you're likely to be preaching to
the choir. The word preach comes from the Latin prae, "before," and dicare, "declare."


The Two Opening lines of your efforts

Start with quote --- Don’t Turn Away From a Strangers Gun.

How many times have we heard that type of comment
From someone delivering a sermon ???starting with Don’t do this , and Don’t covet thy
neighbours wife That’s preaching If you had stated

Best Not To Turn Away From A Strangers Gun

It would not have made much sense because it makes the singer look like a coward,
but it would not be telling someone how to run their lives .

Listeners don’t like being preached to , our lines have
To be written In a more diplomatic way

Just look at some of the ten commandments most of
us would be familiar with

The Gamblers quotes that you quoted are Teaching Not Preaching , just read

the context they were used

He said ----You Gotta Know When To Hold Em

Know When To Fold Em (teaching not preaching)


Your tempo is far too slow --- if it was played at the tempo of The Gambler it
would not have been so painful
For my ears and others ,

If some people here can listen to that , well so be it
But to me it sounded like a joke, the sort of thing a comic states when he is
talking about the many bad songs written about country music.

Take a listen to ---Sunday Morning Sidewalk (kristofferson ) Thats a fabulous
song keeps one Interested from start to finish if his Demo to his Publisher had
been at the tempo of your efforts The song would have gone in the rubbish bin

Poor quality of Vocals ---- The Wrong Tempo— A Plot that makes no sense ----
These are all the things that a real musicians ear , has to get past . Does Yours??

If you are happy getting slaps on the back from PEERS
That’s okay. but , to be completely defensive to anyone
Who has the guts to tell you how you could improve
Tells me and others exactly where you are going in the music stakes ( No Wxxxx )

If you are writing just for friends that’s another matter

The mere fact that you have to question my standing
and experience , also tells me that your mind is too closed, because everything I
have stated is being HONEST, something you obviously cant cope with
an honest critique.

I work in the business of Song Writing, and A and R we don’t fall into those jobs
without Stage and Live Performance experience,

You know what to do just unfriend me , I wont bother to look in any more, for all
the reasons stated above no doubt you will be pleased .

Being strictly analytical, Cheyenne: (I once stayed in a Holiday Inn Express... LOL!)

1. You really liked Floyd's song and are trying to convince yourself otherwise!

2. Floyd didn't respond to your fan-mail.

3. You are really upset because MGM "passed" on your screen test... and Floyd's song
just happened to remind you of the scene on that set.

Seriously, your iconic photo depicts an attractive, carefree young lady but I don't ever recall hearing any of your work... and you don't often post on any of the other JPF forums. This post and your previous post on this thread would probably not phase an experienced singer/songwriter who enjoys a large fan-base... but if I received such a vitriolic review... I would probably crawl under a rock somewhere. Was that really your intent? It's only one song. Surely you recognize the merit of the body his work so generously shared with us thus far?

I don't mean to hurt your feelings or cause embarrassment... but a little levity and compassion when handing out a critique never hurts... and "NO"... I don't plan to "unfriend" you. We need all the friends we can get in this sad and cold world.

Did I misunderstand you?

Sorry, ----Dave

Dear Cheyenne:

Forgive me for opening my big mouth and having the audacity to presume I am empowered to "police" the boards here at JPF. I had no right to attempt to refute your opinion of the song in question. I sincerely apologize.

What I should have said: It would be much better for all concerned if a negative critique is involved, to send the song's creator a Personal Message and by doing so, keep him/her from feeling belittled in the public eye.

My intention here is to be a peacemaker whenever possible. Our numbers are shrinking and we need every member here at JPF to participate, learn, share and enjoy each other's company whenever possible. My mother would always tell me, "Blessed are the Peacemakers" and I hope I have not caused you unhappiness or discomfort.

All my best, ----Dave

"Dusts ups" always get so many views. I'm going to name a song "F.U. Martin."

I bet it'll get a million hits. Even without lyrics or music.

LOL!

I have to admit this wasn't my favorite of Floyd's songs that I've heard, probably because I'm not a fan of songs about the old west and can't quite understand why people keep writing them. That said, I have no idea why someone would jump in with a critique that seems designed to start a saloon fight. Meaningless backslapping can be avoided without the need to administer a punch in the face, for Heaven's sake.

Also, that "preaching" thing is completely bogus. Those first two lines are clearly a stating of received wisdom amongst the gunslinger community (they probably started their meetings with those lines right after the pledge of allegiance) rather than any kind of "preaching."

Anyone has the right to question the standing or experience of someone about whom they know nothing at all. I agree that this forum should not all be about mutual backslapping, but I know when I get a slap on the back from someone who's work I admire (and usually envy), it means more than other slaps. A large part of the fun of this place is getting to know the people here through their work.

Hey Gavin:

When you've grown up hearing songs from the Sons of the Pioneers... Western Music (that's what they called it before some Nashville Exec."coined" the name of "Country & Western") you develop an acquired taste. Much like drinking Scots Whiskey... "Scotch" as most would say. The rest is history, "western" was dropped and we've been sliding downhill from that point. LOL! We will survive, however. Now that MAB has returned, maybe he will add "The Rest of the Story" for us. I think he must know just about everything Nashville oriented.

Before I forget, I failed to add a "disclaimer" to my apology to Cheyenne. This was done of my own volition... and contrary to current rumors, Brian Austin Whitney did not coerce this act of contrition from me. I just felt bad for "raining on someone's parade." Eventually, I'll straighten up and fly right!

If I ever develop a distaste for something you've written and/or performed... expect a PM from me. In most cases, I'll either say nice things or not respond at all. In your case, I'm still enjoying your recent song about "research" of the highest magnitude.

All the best, ----Dave

After reading through this the "fun" part eludes me but for those who enjoy such best to you!

Bud

Dave, believe it or not, I've been working off and on on a western song for years, but it's more of an affectionate parody of the style. Very silly really. Maybe one day I'll surprise myself and finish it.

I actually don't mind criticism Dave, so no need for the PM route, although I am less keen on the "this song sucks" kind of comment than on the "this song would suck less if..." kind

I wasn't referring to this thread. Or my post.