Originally Posted by Bill Robinson
I'm not sure I understand the attitude that if I don't know a particular song it makes me less of a writer or less informed about music.
Personally I don't listen to Pop or Rock or whatever it happens to be called in a particular decade.
The Alanis song is a typical example. More than likely I have heard the song but didn't really listen because that genre of music holds no appeal to me. I don't listen to it because I don't like it. Why would I listen?
I don't want to write it either.
I like oldies rock and roll and Country. That's what I listen to.
And of course, New Country, changes all the time
I like the "New" Country too. I am trying to learn how to write "New" Country. The words as well as the music.
So far I haven't done too well with it but I am working on it.

The fact that I have only been to one mega concert doesn't make me less of a music lover either. It means I don't like crowds. I can't stand people crushed up against me, the noise, the waiting in line for hours, the traffic. None of it appeals to me. The concert isn't worth the pain.
I don't go to Forth of July Fireworks show either, The pain of getting in and out ain't worth it.
I was a big Football fan too. I went to ONE Professional football game in my life. The Bears at Soldiers field (1983). I've been to 2 Baseball games Tiger Stadium (1951, lightning almost killed me) and Wrigley Field (1991). None of them were worth the pain getting to them.
The only mega event I ever felt worth the pain was seeing Evel Kneivel. Twice.
I guess Elvis was worth it but I was sorely disappointed he disrespected the fans in less than good seats. I never would have went a second time.

As for music. I listen to it constantly. In the car, working in the garage on my vette, I watch Videos all the time. I even put a radio on my Motorcycle. But I never watch MTV. I can't stand Rap, Hip Hop, and Vulgar displays in language and persons to sell a song. If it can't sell without it it isn't worth watching.
I asked my wife about the Alanis song. At first she had no idea what song I was talking about until I said the line "Do you think of me when you F### her. Then she knew exactly what song I was talking about. That's my point. The F word is the only thing she remembered.
I watch videos on CMT and GAC. That's it.
I liked most of Michael Jackson's early stuff. Even some of the recent stuff. Thriller was amazing. But I don't and won't ever buy one of his albums. I don't like it enough to spend money on it.

As for the Alanis song. It was very well done and I can see why it was a mega hit but that I don't care for it or the lyric doesn't make me less a person and I resent that implication.
I don't particularly care for Paul McCartney either.
But that's mostly because of his politics.

There's a lot of songs that give me chills when I hear them. Traveling Soldier by the Dixie Chicks comes to mind and if I had to compare it to "You Oughta Know" By Alanis I'd give the nod to Natalie Maines every time as the song that moves me the most.
Despite her politics.
And I really like her new hair smile
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Bill, you have lots of good points in there. Your integrity and outlook on the world must certainly be an asset for you as a songwriter.

I think you are wrong about one thing, though. Your listening habits DOES affect your output as a songwriter. You put way too much trust in the habits of your mind. This puts you way too much in a comfort zone as a writer. You need to challenge that egocentric behaviour, by open minded listening. Not all the time, but at least an hour or two, frequently. You need to listen to stuff you don't like off the rack, but are vastly popular, and listen closely to whats going on in those songs. Break'em down in chunks, like melody dynamics, the rhythm of the melody ect. And don't get too much hung up with what they are about.

Early rock'n roll is actually very educational to song form. I think Elvis' 50'ies stuff is idiomatic in many ways. Back then Ellie had great jazzers 'helping' Scotty, and of course Chet! They could make a lot of fun with just raw energy, and much of that stuff was sold by the pelvis.

Today's lyrics has to be more oriented towards clever twists of mundane lives, circumstances and events, so it's lots more 'brainy', at least in the writing. It's not that immediate anymore, and certainly not for the writer. Most artists can play a certain body part off live. That's where the 50'ies energy still lives, and well, but not in the raw material.