"As the tone and nature of the thread began to change... it's obvious that many of you believe nobody has a chance of success whether it happens to be a song, a novel or a short story. I don't recall anybody mentioning works of art... but maybe that too. Fool that I am, I am glad there are additional fools willing to put forth the effort to at least try. What if Harper Lee was afraid to attempt to get "To Kill a Mockingbird" published?"

Dave, that's not nesassarily true, at least not from my perspective. But it might mean that people have to REDEFINE their definition of SUCCESS. There are still going to be people who do well. Just like any market. When the stock market goes to hell, and everything seems wiped out, there are still people who clean up when the rest panic. But as far as songs and art, anything that is subjective, it is always going to be upon AUDIENCE MARKETPLACE and SALES that determine a financial success.

There are many who "carve out their own niche" and might do quite well for themselves in many of these prescribed methods.
With songs getting literally hundreds of millions of streams and downloads and making in the literal thousand dollar range as well as shifting the goal posts for what "qualifies" as a "hit", is what will probably have to change.

Just like people's concept of what makes a "career" in any field may have to change. Now, most people change jobs multiple times over the course of their lives, as opposed as people in our day and before us, that got one job and stayed with it for life.

And again, and I will say this OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, THAT THIS IS NOTHING NEW!!
I have a ton of friends who have had huge hits, songs that have been on legendary charts over the decades, from the 50s on that have not made ANYWHERE what people THINK they have made over the years. How about all the people from those long ago eras that STILL have to sue to get paid royalties they are owed from decades ago? Getting paid is always a pain.
The current state of the industry is just the latest configuration of an always near impossible endevor.

Does that make you or anyone else quit? Of course not. You still do what you do, take your shot and hope you are the one with the winning lottery ticket. And if you don't win, there is a lot to be said for the adventure itself.

John's observation about "getting 5000 people interested in a career" is exactly what Brian has been talking about all these years.

Niche Marketing. That is what we are all in. You just have to find your niche and do your best to exploit that niche commercially/

MAB