JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Whats going on?

I started thinking about how lots of people say that music is targeted toward the younger audiences. I agree that the young people are the ones who buy music, but seems to me that I would buy some music if I could find some good country music kind of like Waylon Jennings or something along that line which is the old country.
I think the older generation would buy some music if there were something being made that they might really like. Am I wrong here?
Now I am not saying that if an older country singer sang a song that sounded like new country to me that I would buy it, but if the singer was still producing the same kind of music today as the day they started singing, I would buy it.
Someone needs to do something, I can't listen to the radio. All I have is a few CD's that I listen to.
I am all for having new country music, but there needs to be some old country coming out. Do you agree or disagree? Please give your opinion.

Thanks, Jackiann

well, you just have to do a little looking beyond the mainstream Country radio & CMT & GAC.

I just posted about this in the Songwriter forum, in fact.

Marty Stuart is putting out incredibly great traditional Country music these days. Check out "Ghost Train", it was recorded in Nashville at Studio B.

Vince Gill plays great great Traditional Country along with the other stuff he does. Its not the rebel side of Country but it is fantastic. Theres an entire CD of it on the 4 CD release "These Days"

Hank 3 (Hank Williams III) has a very dedicated following of fans. Just today he released a 2 CD album of traditional Country music "Ghost to Ghost"

Check out Heybale, thats another truly great Country band.

Theres plenty of it out there and there are very loyal fans of those artists

Well, I do have to admit I haven't looked hard enough, I am afraid I will have to hear some new country music in the process. I went and looked up some number one country hits and I couldn't believe I found something I liked better here on this website than most of the #1 hits I heard(not that I am saying I expect anything bad from songwriters here). But people here are BETTER!
I know people say music and times are changing. I just feel that some of the old type stuff should be just as easy to find as the new stuff.
Some of the country music singers that sang the old stuff have now changed so that they can hit the younger audiences. It doesn't work for me like the old stuff. We need someone putting out some old country.
Thanks for your comment, I will check out those names and albums you mentioned.

Well the mainstream stuff you hear on the radio appeal to a wider group of people especially age 13-25.

Believe me there are plenty of people out there who love traditional Country music (myself included) but its just not the same numbers of buyers as the people who dig the pop Country. So the major labels put out what sells, thats their job and ultimately it comes down to the people and who is buying what that determines much of this stuff.

I like some of the mainstream Country stuff too, such as Brad Paisley, Alan Jackson etc but I really love Waylon Jennings & Merle Haggard

If you get the TV channel RFD-TV check out the Marty Stuart Show, it is awesome and features old school Country music

OK ajlove,
I listened to Hank III. He does sound a little more country than the new stuff. Problem is I just don't care much for the actual songs he sings. I loved Hank Jr.
Trace Atkins has a great voice, when I first heard his voice, I thought maybe I would really like him as a singer...then he sang Badonkadonk. That was the end of me listening to him again. He has such a wonderful voice, he could sing that old country music right. I just think I will have to give up on finding any that can sing the way I like. Those I liked will never be replaced, I guess that's what made them such good singers.

Alright, Now I am inspired to write some lyrics for a song about this. Some lyrics about the way I feel about it. I know that nobody will ever want to make anything out of the lyrics I will write, but I am going to write some.
It just came to me that this is why I am writing lyrics, because I miss the old country. I know old country probably won't come back, but writing these lyrics make me feel better as well as listening to some of the songwriters on this board.

check out Marty Stuart

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003STL0B8

(about Marty Stuart) It only took me two seconds of listening to say..."No, this is the older of the new country music" It must be that high pitch in the guitar or something that drives me batty. In his case, the words are OK, music sounds too new country.
I heard a song on youtube that I liked of Waylon Jennings called 'Dream On' Nice smooth song. He could sing anything.
That's how I feel about lyrics. There are some songs Waylon sings that I hate the lyrics, but the song is great because he could sing just right, of course you have to have a good beat. But he/they could always do it.
I am listening to Hank III, his voice is a little high for my liking, he is good, but I don't like to watch his videos. He scares me. lol

sowhat,
I don't know what artists or what you have of the old Country Artists but some I can recommend, just Google them you will find their music, CD's.
WEBB PIERCE (Biggest selling artist in the 50's)
CARL SMITH
RAY PRICE
FARON YOUNG
MARTY ROBBINS
JIM REEVES
DON GIBSON
SLIM WHITMAN
STONEWALL JACKSON To name a few.

Thanks for the list Ray, I will check them out.

So what. Most of the people that you like are out there. They still have web sites, they are playing, many of them in Casinos around the country. But you have to find them.

As to your question: What's going on?"
the answer is that with most people and music, LIFE gets in the way.

As a teenager, and into your 20's, college, whatever, music plays a HUGE part of your formative years. It is the main thing many people spend all their money on. They go to clubs, to concerts, buy t-shirts, hats, follow bands around, etc. If they are musicians, they buy equipment and try to follow in the footsteps of their idols. About 90% of that stops once they have to get into the job market, get married, having kids. That is where their ability to pay for music and music related items end.

For those very few like us here and other places, it is still a big deal and we are immersed in it. But for most people, they grow out of it and get into other things. That doesn't mean that they still don't listen and from time to time still participate.

But for the most part, they are no longer primary music consumers.

This has happened throughout history. In country, the old Jimmie Rogers and Mother Maybelle Carter days gave way to the Earnest Tubbs, and Roy Acuff's which gave way to the Hank Williams, which gave way to the Buck Owens, which gave way to Willie and Waylon, which gave way to Alabama and Hank Jr. which gave way to Garth and Shania, which gave way to Tim and Kenny which will now give way to the next big thing, Lady Antibellum, the Band Parry or whatever comes next.

It is nothing more than a natural progression of life.

MAB

OK, it makes since. I guess not everyone gets/stays married, has kids, goes to college though. I was married, didn't go to college or have kids cuz I was too busy listening to music. lol. But back then, I wasn't buying music, I was listening on the radio. I didn't have the money to buy and I don't really now, but it would be a good cheap form of entertainment to me now to buy music and I hate to keep picking through videos on youtube. I have been to just a few concerts in my life. Tom Petty, Charlie Daniels, and Aaron Tippin (sp) to name a few. I didn't pay for any of those concerts. I like those artists, but would not pay to see them. The reason I say this is because I was a teenager and didn't pay for any of it. Now that I would like to, there's nothing left.
All jokes aside, you are right that most of the buyers are young, still just wish they had some good stuff left for me, new songs and new people, just not 'new country' that's all. They need to bring it back though, like they did with Classic Coke. lol. But if they aren't going to have as many buyers, I get the point.

Who needs to bring it back? The major labels? They'll only do that if market research tells them that 12-25 year olds really want to hear that Waylon Jennings & Merle Haggard sound. While that is not impossible, its pretty unlikely.

The sound of modern Country evolves though and perhaps the influence of Waylon, Willie, and Johnny Cash will become more prominent than the influence of the Eagles and the Allman Brothers again. Time will tell...

Even in the heyday of Willie & Waylon they WERE the outcasts, the Outlaws. There was alot of Pop Country on the charts back then that sounded nothing like what they played...

You're right, the 12-25 group will be the center of attention if they are the ones buying. I can't expect an artist to sing for free because my age group will not purchase the music. That would be totally selfish of me. I guess I can just listen to the stuff I like on youtube as I have been doing for a while now. OR I can listen on here. I enjoy listening to the artists music on here. It is different and I like the stuff I hear on here way better than most of the new stuff that are/were big hits.

Sowhat (I wish you would put your name at the end of the post)

You are actually making the point. "But back then, I wasn't buying music, I was listening on the radio. I didn't have the money to buy and I don't really now, but it would be a good cheap form of entertainment to me now to buy music and I hate to keep picking through videos on youtube. I have been to just a few concerts in my life. Tom Petty, Charlie Daniels, and Aaron Tippin (sp) to name a few. I didn't pay for any of those concerts. I like those artists, but would not pay to see them. The reason I say this is because I was a teenager and didn't pay for any of it. Now that I would like to, there's nothing left."

This is the point. How much did record labels make off of you? How much were they able to use to pay for their rent, their food, their children's education, running their tour buses, printing up their t-shirts, their studio time, pay their musician's salaries? How much were those T-shirt vendors, their recording technicians, etc. how much of your money were they able to spend on THEIR own projects, lives?

See how this works? The audience actually will leave the scene first. Artists will quit getting the airplay. Their shows will sell less and less. They will have to downsize. Their audiences will go on to other things. There will be more that come up behind them with new audiences.

We all wish they would keep on making the music that we love, but frankly if we are not buying it and going to those concerts, who exactly are we to say what is right or wrong.

But again, you make the point. You just don't want to have to go through You Tube or other processes to find the music YOU like. But it IS out there. It is up to you to find things you like.

Again, the country music industry continues to expand it's fan base. So they are responding to the marketplace. That is what you have to do to survive.

MAB

Sorry, I need to clarify that when I said I wasn't buying music back then or paying for concerts, this was when I was a teenager - 25 yrs old.(since we were talking about the young people 12-25 were the ones who buy the music).
I started buying music when I was 25-35. So the point I was making was that I wasn't buying music in my teenage years. So yes, I have contributed much to the artists. I gave George Strait, Waylon, Hank, etc... plenty of money in purchased CD's. Not to mention Jimmy Buffet and others. There are countless others, these were just some favorites I am mentioning as examples. Sorry I wasn't clear on that.
And yes, If I could find some artists who sing the way I like, I would buy their albums now...

I really wish you would put your name up here. It is hard talking to someone you don;'t know and the point of these boards are for people to get to know each other.

You might try something like Pandora, which is a program you can join that will send you lots of things that you might like. If you have a certain artist you like they will suggest other artists that might fit that catagory. Much like You tube will keep a toll of what you view and recommend other similar things.

I am not on Pandora as I get pretty much all the music I ever want to listen to coming at me all the time, but I hear a lot of people really enjoy it.

MAB

Hi So

This is not only the case with Country but all forms of popular music. If you LOVED Rock from back in the day your even worse off.

The distance between Merle & Trace are big but not THAT big...
Try the distance between Pink Floyd,Genesis,Zeppelin,countless others, and ANY Band out today... Not even in the same universe! Soul & R&B doesn't fair well either.

I liked a lot of 80's Country main stream because A- It started to take a more rock & popular direction but it still didn't get overall hokey in many cases. Restless Hearts songs have great qualities to them, they sound singer songwriter like, they rock, they are CATCHY! They have well written clever natural lyrics great singing and playing..Today with nothing much left to write about (poor writers) they have to completely contrive songs.. That means you have this pretty melody and you look out the window and around the room for stuff to write about.
It starts to become too obvious for many listeners.

But anyway what you need to try is what I do, LOOK elsewhere, Like the others mentioned. Forget the radio.
I have Roku this little cable box that gives me Netflix. On it is a channel called MOG it's $5 a month and gives me a massive library of songs to listen to day & night... You can find albums and songs from people you do like that may NEVER even heard before.. Nice! Was doing that last week with Joni Mitchell

I go BACKWARDS As well... There is sooooo much stuff I'm into and then so much I missed I can't even believe it. It's like going BACK to find great movies.

Go back and find the people who inspired your favorite artists..
Go random to find new people who still do what you like... Bend a little with them. Recognize the good qualities and TREASURE the fact that nobody is as GREAT as your idols cause that's what makes them special and so GREAT!'

Also consider MORE than Country to fill your appetite.

All the best,
Mike

Mike, thanks for the suggestions. I will check out the netflix thing too.

Thanks Marc for your opinions and information. I do feel better about this, now that I know there is maybe something out there for me to listen to. I just shut off all radio stations a while back but now I have have some information to go on, I will check it out. I am happy now.
My name is Jackiann. I tried to change it in my profile, but somehow it didn't load right. I will attempt later.

There's broader access now to ALL genres of music now than at any other time in history, you just have to look for it. Mark had a great suggestion with Pandora www.pandora.com
Or seach CDBaby by genre www.cdbaby.com

This is how it is these days--the good stuff is out there for sure, but I seldom hear it on a mainstream radio station.

Maybe that's a good thing. Seems like the rest of the planet doesn't all have to be hearing the same song over and over and over...maybe the modest audience is a better one.

"".


I am still laughing about what you said here. I remember getting fed up with trying to find stuff on the country stations that I liked, so I put it on a rock station, and there it was...an old def leopard (sp) song from way back when. I remember thinking to myself that I couldn't believe that I was only hearing the same rock songs as I heard way back when I listened to rock here and there. I thought...there's NO new rock music! Kind of freaked me out.

Sowhat, I agree with you 100%,the old country,traditional,real country is the best, but the labels and radio are pushing the new stuff,and if you advertise and push something enough,it will find a market.

Our local radio station has a show called Cabin party,where they play the old stuff, and they say it is their most listened too program, should tell someone something,there is an audience for the old stuff.

Everett,

Listening to something on a radio or television station that comes into your home is one thing. Going to concerts, buying CD's, product, supporting acts are something altogether different and that is what allows music to flourish. Those people don't go to shows. I live in a town with the Grand Ole Opry. That is considered the home of country music.

It is very hard for them to keep audiences because those people don't go out. You can't base a career around people that don't show up for things. Sorry but that is reality.

MAB

I get out and play or listen to music about 4 nights a week. In my area, there is a ton of good new music from people of all ages in all genres. NONE of it sounds like what you hear on mainstream radio stations, with the exception of the local public radio station WMNF (which you can stream on the internet by the way). The good stuff is alive and well but don't expect to hear it on Clear Channel radio or on the award shows on TV.

I love old country, next to bluegrass, it's my favorite kind of music. But, frankly, old country is a lot of people demanding that the music business offer them music that they won't buy.

I think it is also a little arrogant to think that I or any one person could be right when everyone else is wrong. I still have not seen that huge guy that goes in and forces people to like something. People have different tastes. Because something comes out on the radio that I don't particularly care for doesn't give me any right to say that everyone else is wrong. Some people are buying certain things, showing up at shows, buying merchandise. It is my responsibility to give them something they will show up for.

MAB

How true Mike, so let new country carry on. I have a pet duck, he can be my new hobby now. lol. I will find other things to do if I don't find some music I like. I can always resort to the few CD's that I like to listen to constantly. Things like this is what brings people like me to places like this (JPF). Maybe it's all for the best.

You know, I'm kind of wondering, why are you not writing your OWN music that reflects what you enjoy? Two weeks ago I was teaching a workshop where the average age was about 55. I was asked a question about "Do "older style" songs have a place today?"

I said, "Yes, but you have to look at them a couple of different ways. You can either do them "retro" which would be the older style of music, yet make it up to date with language. Or you could find your own local, older artists, or those on web sites, that might fit the bill for your songs."

In the case of someone like country artist, Josh Turner, he has a very deep voice and sensabilities that are EXACTLY like Johnny Cash. Many artists like him are influenced by older material, but you have to find a way to make it relevant. It is sort of a "Throwback."
Years ago, Dwight Yokum" did it by making his music a throwback to Buck Owens, from 30 years before. k.d. lang, also made her music very reminicent of the 50's-60's style of retro crooners, Patsy Cline, Etta James, etc.

But in all cases, the LANGUAGE is what makes it change. Again, from personal experiences of a show I did last Friday with several of the "older artists and writers" from the 60's and 70's, you have to make sure that your language keeps up with today. Many of their's didn't.

What I would suggest you do is study the music that you like the most. Find out what the subject matter was and think about how you would write that same song today. I would study the chord progressions, phrasings, etc.

Then I would study some of the top artists of today and try to draw comparrisons with those artists. I would again, get a sense of subject matter, and try to see what the similarities and differences are.

From there, I would start work on my own ideas and songs and see if I could recreate that vibe.

When I mention Subject matter, I mean it like this:

A few years back, in the 70's and 80's, we could talk about "one night stands." Then came Rock Hudson and the AIDS epidemic and those kinds of terms were no longer politically correct. They still happened, was still part of every day life, even TV shows around "Booty calls" and "Hook ups" happen all the time.
But in the country music industry, where the audience is a little more conservative (but not all that much many times) you could talk about "It's a quarter to three, and I need you now." Which is about the SAME thing. It is just phrased differently.

So, if I were you, that is an approach I would do. Challenge myself to find out what about the older stuff you like, find some common threads to today's marketplace, and see where you can fit your own music in. It is a challenge and should give you some fuel to look at both the new and the old.

I had a client from Ohio one time come in with the "I hate this new country" stuff. As part of his "tour" I made him sit and watch the CMT country video show for 30 minutes. They played several things he had never heard of. He changed his mind very quickly and now almost won't listen to anything else.

A lot of time there is more there than we realize. We just have to look past our own biases.

MAB

What a joke (me writing my own music). I couldn't even stand to play the flute and look at the music I was trying to play. I was never happier than the day I put down that flute and stopped trying to play my own tunes. This was in elementary school and I will never forget the horrifying moment I had with that. I don't know how you people make your own music. You have got to be the most patient people in the world. I have tons of patience, but I honestly really want to learn, but I just keep walking away. I will look at music theory and I just fall apart.
Something always seems to block me from learning about music. I don't mind the lyrics part because it stops at the lyrics for me. I have tried and tried and I guess if I am not interested, I get nothing out of trying to learn music.
Believe me, believe me...if I could write my own music so that I could hear it, I would. I know what kind of stuff I like, but making it myself would just be too hard for me. I am a music LISTENER. I listen to those good songs over and over again that I believe are good. I like to listen to the artists who I think have everything...good appearance, style, image, great beat to their music and good lyrics. I will give up one thing, maybe the lyrics if the beat is good. But I like to have most of those things in the artist/and the music I listen to. So, NO...it would be too difficult for me to do this.
I know it has to be hard to have all of those things, I cannot produce them all, so I will spare everyone. lol.

And let me add this...I don't have a mans voice, I am female. I like male artists. So this won't blow over too good for me.

K, let me add another thing here. Why would I go through purchasing guitars etc... learning music and writing it just so I can listen to it? Way way too much when I can crash places like this and listen to music or go on youtube. Now, believe me, I don't like to have to do that. I would like to hear what I like on the radio. But that would be too much trouble to go through for a few songs I may create.
Thanks for giving me something to laugh about while I go grocery shopping. You are something Marc. At least you got a laugh out of me, you should be a comedian as well.

SoWhat, Why not? You might like it.

Humm,
Appearently sowhat is looking for good music by today's Artists.
That's what we all are looking for too. Perhaps some Pam Tillis, Gretchen Wilson, Leann Rimes or LeeAnn Womack is what sowhat is looking for. Those are some of the newer good country artists of the recent past.

Mike, its a big thing for me to sit down and attempt music. I don't know if I get frustrated, but I keep referring back to that horrible reading and writing music on the sheet with the notes. Now I know that sounds bad, but I would never attempt to do anything with music until I know how to do that kind of stuff. I tried, I gave an effort, but I don't know what it is about that 'white sheet' with the notes on it. I don't know the first thing about writing music or anything like that. Heck, I can't even sing. Lately I was looking on youtube and watching the videos on music theory. (Music theory is what I am referring to). I know it can't be that hard, but something just won't let me grasp enough to even begin to learn it. I am going to keep trying though. I looked at two lessons and ran off and made an excuse to do something else. Strange how that is, but it is so. I may try it again, only with the hopes i will have something to do in my retirement years-if I make it that long. lol. I guess I am one of those people who like to learn only what I want? I know it is necessary to learn music theory etc...or else I won't understand how to make music. I know lots of people probably don't learn it, but in my case I feel I cannot go without learning that first.
See, no need for me to be troubled if there were people singing everything I wanted to hear, lol.

Ray, more like...Trace atkins voice with the old country music?

There was an artist that had a song Long Black Train or something like that recently. Josh Turner is the Artist.

The Artists that have a low voice are Tennessee Ernie Ford, Ernest Tubb, Johnny Cash but they are from earlier years. Vaughn Monroe is another but from the 40's. Check out Riders in the Sky by Vaughn Monroe.

Easy on the OLD ray. maybe from the late 60's to early 70's. I checked out the ones you said. A little too old for me. Still not bad stuff though. Maybe I could deal with this.

SoWhat, So what if it's hard...do it. Actually, basic music theory can be explained in a few lessons, or in a fairly small book. Here's a good start:

Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Ti Do is the same as:
1..2..3..4..5...6..7..1

If you're interested, I'll explain further.

OK Mike...Explain away on a PM. Maybe I will be making my own music soon. Then I won't need someone else.

SoWhat,

PM's? We don't need no PM's!

These three threads give the basics of music theory using the number system that we use in the Nashville studios. Having taught traditional theory for years, I've found this system to be MUCH easier than the dots on the lines. It takes something people already know, numbers, to describe the relationships of notes and keys.


Part One
http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthr...m&topic=0&Search=true#Post467981

Part Two
http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthr...m&topic=0&Search=true#Post467979


Part Three
http://www.justplainfolks.org/ubb/Forum60/HTML/000004.html

If you have any questions, PM me again. And, by the way, welcome to JPF!!

Mike

Also, if you look here:

http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/749568/page/1#Post749568

You'll find many good resources on music theory. This is from our Music Theory and Education forum.

Enjoy!!

Mike

Thanks Mike, I appreciate it. Who knows, I might actually learn something this time.

So What,

I am sorry. I get confused on so many threads I am involved with. Most of the people on here are musicians or songwriters and I just address anyone as if I am talking to one of those. It is what I do for a living.

I believe if you got interested in writing music (co-writing is my personal favorite way) you might learn about elements of what you are looking for.

As far as listening, Josh Turner, the artist that Ray is talking about IS the Johnny Cash "retro" artist I was speaking of. He has found a way to make music like I think you are talking about. That has that "classic" sound in a newer language format.

There are many of those artists out there but you do have to look beyond the top 18 on the charts. The mentions of "Pandora" are designed for people exactly as yourself. They will automatically find things to recommend based upon your musical tastes.

MAB

PS; I have unfortunately done plenty of comedy as well. As a comedian, I make a good singer. As a singer I make a good comedian. Never works out quite right.

The world's not what it used to be...waaaaah.

Do you figure Kurt? Really? And we were all thinking it was! K, gonna finish my Waylon Karaoke, so I can laugh.

OK, I have found my answers. I sang my own song.(I can't sing, but I tried). I am kind of thinking that I should go on back to youtube and watch the real stuff after listening to myself do some karaoke.

sowhat,

OK, the good news. You have good rhythm and meter, in other words your timing for the song is good. You also have a pleasant sound to your voice. Where you could use work is with key. At least on this song. I suspect it's not in a good key for you, because instead of singing the lead melody, you're singing a pretty good harmony by the end of the song. First you need to get some ear training for a firm grasp on key. Here's a piano do re mi vocal warm up you can sing along to. Just sing la la la along with the piano notes. This will start to get you a good feel for being in key (key and scale are basically, practically the same thing).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTcwRFMQC1s

And, while you're singing it, you're warming your voice up...hey...multi tasking...very early 2K, n'est pas?

Get 'er done.

Mike

By the way, I did some work for Ed and Patsy Bruce, the writers of "Mamas." Nice folks.

Thanks Mike! I think I am going to like this. I haven't actually started yet. I have to make sure I have nothing that I have to do before I start. I am going to try hard to see if this works for me.