JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum HELP ! - Killed By the Black Screen of Death

Thanks Bill.....an infection will respond to antibiotics but a virus will not. It just has to run its course......only the symptoms can be alleviated somewhat......SO I AM TOLD.
One really bad thing is that my hearing is not great during this thing...things get kinda fuzzy and muffled.
AH the joys of getting old....

Hooray ! I picked up the externl hard drive, which the techo made from the old PC and plugged it into my son's laptop via USB. It's all there, everything intact ! Execpt the old programmes won't load. Never mind, all the files are there.

Now just need to wait for the new 'puter to arrivre ( should have been here last Fri )

Moral of the story - ALWAYS do a complete system backup from time to time. The alternative ain't worth it.

Thanks guys !

cheers, niteshift

Good to hear man! I'm glad everything was in tact. Programs won't load if its connected via USB so you have to re-install them all on the new computer, but you still have all the data!

Its always such a relief when you can salvage things!

John

Hey John,

Yeah, got some work to do, but that's Ok. I'm now talking to you via the you beaut, whizz bang, bells and whistles new PC !

Once I figured how to turn it on ( had a faulty power board, and the 20 digit internet security is too damn small to read ) the rest was easy.

Off and away flying.

cheers ( real ones ) niteshift

I'm upgrading my computer now too...kids caught another virus, and I'm sick of slowness and XP. So my computer shop pal is rebuilding mine with an extremely fast processor, new motherboard, maxed RAM and Windows 7. And I was just about to join TAXI, dammit, but there's no denying I need more speed and capacity with all the MIDI I use, so the money goes to yet another upgrade.

Hey Mark,

Yeah, gotta agree.

I was never in any rush, and the old PC did me just fine. But it did have limits, and would crash when trying to run over 30 tracks and do live edits.

And it's all so damn cheap, so why not ?

I'm liking Windows 7, very user friendly, unlike that bastard Vista stuff. ( I maintained XP )

If you can do stuff easily, then there's more concentration on the music, rather than the limitations. It doesn't make for better songwriting, just a better experience I think, which allows concentration where it should be.

Are you sure you want to upgrade ? My computer dude just said "it's not worth it, buy a new one". And up until now, I'd have to agree.

cheers, niteshift

I upgraded my computer once. Right out the window.


Its a shame about the dog.

Absolutely sure! I'll spend less and get more, so for me it's not worth it to buy new. My friend sells and repairs computers, and he also does computer recording of his own. What he and I understand by now is that any standard Dell or HP or Gateway or whatever is going to be geared toward home use--writing docs, watching vids, playing games, listening to MP3s. But they won't necessarily use the best chipsets for MIDI or have ideally compatible internal parts for the sort of massive files we mess with every day. And a computer that is built specifically for musicmaking is generally around $2000+. When we're done, I'll have a computer that resembles one of those...for less than I'd pay for a nice name brand computer. Woot!

Mark is spot on....a music production PC is a whole different animal from a standard PC. Most have stripped down operating systems with all the extra stuff not associated with or used in music production discarded and hardware like special soundcards, interfaces and extra fast processors plus extra large memory are not usually found in standard PCs.
It is usually cheaper to build one from scratch to your own specs than to adapt a standard PC or buy a specialised music production job.

I'm not sure about all this.
A quad core processor with 8 gig of Memory and a raid hard drive setup is the same no matter whether it's a dell or an e-machine or you build it from scratch yourself.
You can buy all the components on line through several vendors.
They offer cases with power supplies and many brands of motherboards. Some are better than others. But all have USB ports, Firewire, etc. Pretty much standard.

If you are using a audio interface you don't need onboard sound and you only need a high end Graphics card if you are trying to make videos or playing games.

If you buy a Dell or E-machine or Compaq, any of the off the shelf PC's they will have all kinds of programs you don't need already installed. You can easily uninstall them and reconfigure the PC to run faster by eliminating all the junk.

Unfortunately some software will cost a lot if it is not "OEM"
Like Windows seven for instance. Purchased in a $400.00 laptop Seven comes with it. But if you buy Windows Seven Pro 64 bit as a stand alone system it will set you back about $140.00.
Microsoft office comes with some Computers as OEM. But if you want to buy it as a stand alone it will run you about $450.00.

Right now you can buy a very fast PC and build it yourself for about $500.00 to$600.00 if you already have an older PC and monitor. Reuse the Case. Reuse the CD player/burner or DVD burner if you have one. Just make sure the Power supply can handle the new setup. 400 watts will usually be OK if you don't add a lot of stuff.

A good 6 or 8 core CPU/Motherboard will run you anywhere from $225.00 to $350.00 depending on what comes with it.
8 Gig of Memory about $100.00 Two 500 Gig SATA hard drives about $120.00.
You can even reuse the old video card if the new board doesn't have onboard video if the Card will fit. Or an inexpensive video card for about $70.00

You can use the operating system you have or buy a new one. Windows Seven home will cost about $140.00 for the 64 bit Pro.

Just make sure everything is compatible.
Doing this you will have a stripped down system that isn't loaded up with a bunch of programs you don't need.
The less you have cluttering up a recording Computer the better off you are.

With this you should be able to Multitrack a couple dozen tracks with effects.

I gotta agree with you Bill.

At one time, you really did need a custom built computer to produce music. These days, the components are WAY in excess of what's required to lay some tracks and do a mixdown.

Any store bought PC will do the job, and most are multi media, which are geared for high end graphics. If they can handle that well, and edit vision, then audio by default is just a toy in comparison. ( And it comes with a card reader so the little peeps can insert their data cards and I don't have to worry about cables to tranfer their life experiences )

Yes, I'm impressed with the new PC. It's fast, simple, and has more entry points than a $2 hooker.

Honestly Mark, I would really look at just getting a store built model. Mine was $999, no hassle thus far, and it has the option of adding a couple more cards, if that's even necessary. Since eveything is now USB, who cares ? Even my MIDI is USB enabled.

Upgrade ? Hmm, no I'm thinking dump and start again is most probably the better option. I'll let you know on my first glitch wether I should throw it in the pool or not.

cheers, niteshift

PS - if it's good enough for Peter Jackson to string up a couple of hundred ( or was it thousand ) store bought Macs and produce Lord of the Rings, then it's good enough for me too.

I'll second that. The box I am on now is a 2002 eMachine with WinXP and 2GB RAM. Just recorded several fat multitracked projects on it with Reaper. Record live, playback, zoom down, mark waveforms, edit, stich, repeat. NOT ONE HICCUP. Never had that experience before recording. Amazing.

Yes what you say is correct.....most modern PCs will handle basic music production. That said my point still holds true for serious recording. It is cheaper in the long run to buy or have made a dedicated music production PC. Latency will not be an issue nor will noisy fans. The standard sound card provided with most off the shelf PCs is not up to the job and upgrading and modifying to the specs needed might not be cost effective especially for multi tracking and quality sound capture/reproduction. A good quality noiseless off the shelf music production PC costs about £1000. Making one up to the same specs cost about half of that figure.... about the same price as an off the shelf ENTRY LEVEL PC. Little point in buying a standard and then having to spend time and money replacing parts and paying for stuff that gets ripped out or disabled.
At the end of the day it is up to budget, personal taste, degree of professionalism and the applications and standards you need.
In my case I pay more for a microphone than most people spend on their whole system. So I do not skimp on the system I use to record.

Hey Jim,

Yes, if you're multitracking, then I would reccomend a more "serious" system.

But honestly, 4 meg of RAM,( updradable to 16 ), 3MHz processor and a Tb of storage is way in excess of what I require. And the thing is super quiet too.

Since it's all about sound capture, I would, like you reccomend, buying good gear on the front and back ends, but am not too concerned about the middle.

I'll let ya know how it all pans out.

cheers, niteshift

Well, it's all up and working fine. Plugged in the old PC which has been mirrored on an external hard drive via USB, and it just zings along.

I'm impressed with Windows 7, very stable, no crashes yet.

I had to upgrade Acid Pro to the latest version, but that's Ok cos it's backwards compatible.

Only one problem....... it renders so quick, I don't have time for a ciggy and a beer while it's doing it.

Also, the data transfer between devices is amazingly fast. Is that because it's USB 2 ?

Oh well, will be able to produce songs in record time. Except for the blues..... I think it works too quick for the blues.

cheers, niteshift

PS - Dave, please tell your son everything is fine all around. The service from Dell, the delivery time, and the product are all spot on.

I missed this one, Nite. Let's put it this way--my friend did all the work putting together a snarling beast of a machine with fully compatible parts, and he was paid for it. 3.7 ghz quad Core i5 processor, 8gb RAM, lots of USB, firewire and eSata ports ..and it all cost me a lot less than $999!

So I'm buying the next beer!

Hey Mark,

Yep, fair enough. If you have great knowledgable guys around, they're going to kick ass every time. And much cheaper too.

And, after hearing how you lay tracks, you're going to need it.

Lemmie know how it all goes compatibility wise, and did that Windows 7 upgrade make a sizable difference ?

cheers, niteshift

PS - I like the "snarling beast" comment. That's a great term for "no compromise and no excuses"

The only problems I'm having are due to my decision to make the leap to 64-bit rather than to have installed it as a 32-bit system. Most of my 32-bit plugs are working with the help of a piece of software called JBridge, but there are some that just don't work anymore.

I don't really mind...feel like I'm frontloading for the future, and besides, I plan to focus more on getting my sound right at the source and relying a bit less on plug-ins. Even have an outboard compressor for tracking now!

Hey Mark,

Now you're getting just too much "gear intoxicated".

Apparantly, no-one can hear the difference between 32 bit and 64 bit. Same, as the the University studies that say that no-one can hear the difference between 41k and 96k mastering.

I "think" I'm on 64 bit, with the new system, but I'll only know when I try to retro fit a plug-in which I really like, and it goes "SORRY DOESN'T FIT"

Now that we all have the gear which is WAY above the technical quality of the past, I reckon it just comes down to damn good song writing and engineering.

The playing field has been truely leveled. There are no more excuses.

cheers, niteshift

Intoxicated? Sounds good! But no, I didn't go to 64-bit to improve the sound quality...that's the same on 32-bit...it's for the ability to use 8gb RAM instead of maxing out at 4gb. It allows me to run a massive orchestral plug-in without freezing up. But I also believe 64-bit will soon be the norm in all new computers.

64 bit?
I hope not. Per the Manufacturer My $1400.00 interface won't run on 64 bit and they have no plans to upgrade the firmware.

Bill, these are the heartbreaks they love to inflict on us. But the writing is on the wall...and the ads...and the invoices...

Yeah, ya gotta love "improvements" which don't really improve anything.

Bill, I did notice that installing my new ACID software, that it made a new system folder called "XP something", so it's retro fitting all the old files I would suspect, and I guess would retro fit the old hardware too. This was one big thing I used to complain about, that you had to "upgrade" all your software, but perhpas now it's not the case.

Funny story, I have an "old" digital camera, circa 2003 which the system wouldn't recognise via USB. Couldn't even download new drivers or software. I'm cursing and swearing, then realise that the new 'puter has a built in card reader. Just remove the flash drive, plug and play. No messing about with propriatry software. Ah geez, that only took me about half a day to figure out.

Mark, if your system can't handle stuff with 4 gig memory, then I'd suggest looking at how you route things. Are you using side busses, and grouping stuff to use the same plug ins ?

Mate, honestly, 4 gig is stacks, even running maybe 50 tracks. I'd look at your chains, you are probably overloading the system by putting plugins into every track, rather than grouping tracks onto the one effect unit, when required.

Orchestral programmes shouldn't make a difference. I use the Roland orchestral programme without bother, on the old puter also. It just takes up a lot of disc space, more than computer power. Just have a look at your configuration, I think that's where your problem may lie.

cheers, niteshift