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Hi
How can I copyright songs (a Demo) before sending it to people , on line. Do you know an official site for international copyright to register and pay on line. Do i have to know something else?
Do i have to be afraid to send to a person my music ?
thanx
daniel

Hi Daniel,
There are sights on the internet, but if you want to do it the easy way what I do is mail copies of my songs (mp3's and lyrics) back to me by registered mail. Then keep them unopened as proof that you owned them on that date.
Vic

You can register you music here: http://www.copyright.gov/

Preferably as a collection to save money.

Best, John

Man,

This is the biggest topic discussed on songwriter web sites. first of all, Vic, that process has been discredited for about 25 years. The "Poor man's copyright" is not recognized any more. You can do it, but it really is not allowed.

Copyrights are a huge bugaboo in the world of songwriting. The main reason is because everything has been done. Over and over and over. Before you go to the process of registering anything, you should probably do a Google, ASCAP, BMI, title search and see how many times your idea has been done. Usually a pretty eyes opening exprience. I had one of my students do this who had trouble believing me. He got 69 pages with over 100 examples on each page.

The US copyright office is backed up around 3 years processing claims on patents, songs, inventions, etc. The majority are not copyrightable. You can't copyright a title or idea. You can trademark names, but you might find that is a bit more involved than you think.

The best of all worlds would be having a publisher who is connected to the industry who dealt with the details of all of this. But outside of that I would suggest getting around other writers first to see what is out there. You will probably find your "unique never heard of idea",has actually been done many times before.

I have had so many people sit down telling me about their great songs, or playing them for me and it will have been some huge hit from Broadway in the 50's or 60's. Or take them to a writers night in Nashville and hear their incredible idea performed three or four times by other writers who they have never met but wrote their versions five or ten years before they even had their idea. There is nothing new under the sun.

There are new methods of registering songs, the Internet opens that up.There are services out there for doing just that, if you go to www.indieconnect.com you can find information on My Werx, which is one of these.

Most professional writers and publishers never bother with copyrights at all until something is getting ready to be commercially released. The reason is that most songs simply go no where. With one billion downloads of songs a month on the Internet, it is to me the ultimate of wishful thinking that anyone has something that has been done before.And without question in my over 30 years in this business, the people the most concerned with protection of their ideas, don't have anything worth copyrighting in the first place.

Nowadays it is more doing something we have all heard a million times before in a way or twist we haven't heard before it. More titles now are just average phrases, and the Devil of the song is all in the details of the story.

Everyone has to do what they feel comfortable with. Daniel, you can wait until you have things all copyrighted to send anything to anybody but chances are that will be a few years down the road. How are you supposed to get anyone into your music if you don't get it out there? In my opinion, song theft, where people sit around copping ideas from someone that mails something in is a total myth. There maybe many things that unconciously gets borrowed, probably all music has this in one way or another. But that is something that can't be helped. There are even current songs on the charts which have direct references to songs from earlier eras.

So if you want, wait around till you have all the forms, bells and whistles. But don't be surprised if people you know start hearing your ideas on the radio and tell you that someone stole things from you. If you do a little research you are more than likely going to find out that song was written a long time before you ever thought of yours. Takes an average of 3-8 years for songs to find their place in the marketplace. So it might be much more common than you ever considered.

MAB

Thanx everyone
Daniel

I understand that Marc, that's why I suggested the easy way first. Not giving legal advice here.
Vic

Hi Daniel,

There is a common false premise that a song is not copyrighted until it is lodged and accepted with the US Library Of Congress. The truth is, that when you write a song it automatically belongs to you and in a practical sense, you own the copyright. The reason for lodging the song with the US LOC is to be able to show, for legal reasons, that you wrote the song and when you wrote it.

Here in Australia, we don't have a copyright library. Our Copyright Council only advises about copyright - it doesn't store copyrighted material. When I write a song I immediately lodge the details with APRA (Australasian Performers Rights Association - our PRO) and then when I have a few really great songs ready, I send them off to the US LOC as a 'compilation' for official record of my ownership/copyright on those songs.

I disagree with Mark regarding 'poor mans copyright'. This method of sealing the CD recording and/or lyric in a self-addressed envelope and having the post office date stamp over the seal, is a great way of proving that you are in possession the song from that date. The issue with using this method is the same as with any other method. When push comes to shove, you need to be able to prove that you wrote it. There is no fool-proof method really - unless you write the song in a public arena where other people can attest to you having written it in front of them (co-writers, songwriter group session, in front of an audience etc). In the past, when using the 'poor mans copyright' method, I would never use JUST that method on its own. I always lodge the details of the work with my PRO, and if I think the song has a really good shot at being pitched and/or cut, I also lodge it with the US LOC.

It can be debated till we're blue in the face (Vic, Lisa), however - the idea of the sending yourself a recording in the mail will not hold up in court. The only fool-proof method is to spend the money and register with the US LOC. Ask any attorney worth their salt if the "mail it to yourself" method will hold up and they'll tell you no. Here's why: I can go to the post-office and get a date stamped envelope that is not sealed. Then I can hold on to it for a while until I write a song, put it on a disc, stick it in that envelope, then mail it to myself. Imagine that, I now wrote a song before I ever conceived it - based on that method.

Telling others to use that method is only spreading misinformation.

As for searching titles of PROs, I highly recommend it as well. I used to make sure that I would search out titles in at least the three US PROs (ASCAP, BMI & SESAC). Often you will find your coveted title has been done. Then again, if you're creative you can come up with more original titles that likely have not been done. That helps get that unique spin on a song.

I can tell you right now there's a song that Marc and I wrote that has not been registered with the PROs and I'm pretty sure it hasn't been copyrighted. It's a good song that needs to be recorded. To boot the title is original enough that no one has come up with it even a few years after we wrote it (I just searched the 3 US PROs).

While I don't share Marc's view on not copyrighting material, I do share the idea that generally the people most paranoid about copyrighting their songs the moment they're written, aren't writing the greatest songs. That being said, I often have to copyright my material when it's finished because I do have licensing deals in place and that music goes right into those deals. Thus I have a reason to be copyrighting most material immediately.

Like Marc, unless the song is immediately getting picked up, licensed, or pitched to heavyweights, I generally don't copyright right away. No sense in it.

SESAC has been giving it's writers/publishers free access to My Werx. I have the app on my iPhone. I have used it for songs I've written myself. However, with songs that are co-written, it's a bit of a pain in the ass as the co-writer also has to be a member of My Werx in order to confirm the registration. I know of no others that I write with that have it. Plus it does cost money to maintain it if your PRO isn't footing the bill. Which makes me wonder if it will ever catch on.

As for the LOC being backed up 3 years... Well, I know that I register online using the LOC website and the registrations getting sent back to me are about 3 to 4 months, not years.

This topic really interests me, as an artist, the hardest thing I find is getting people to actually listen to the song, I would probably take it as a bit of a compliment if someone ripped off one of my songs, though it might be different if it made a bucket load of cash.

I can't remember any famous instance of an established artist ripping off an unsigned artist from a demo mailout, I don't think that actually happens. What has happened a bit is a famous song has been ripped off by a famous artist unconsciously, usually without intent.

I write the song down in music notation, put the copyright sign, my name, date, top and bottom of the page. Might not be much protection legally, but it is kind of cool to look back at in ten years.

Rather than an established artist ripping off an unsigned writer from a demo mailout, I think the biggest danger is the possibility that once a song becomes a hit and starts making money, someone could claim that he or she was the actual writer.

Oh yeah, before I forget... Welcome to JPF, Steve!

Jody,

I am not saying not to copyright things. I am saying that there is a point for all of that. The things I see over and over and over are people that have spent literally hundreds (in one case thousands) of dollars on songs that simply are not copyrightable. They are titles, lyrics, songs that have been done thousands of times before.One client I had argued about her song "I Love You Baby" should be copyrighted as well as songs like "Yesterday" "Already Gone" and other very famous titles.

The worst case was a man in a Daytona Fla. workshop. If he was a day less than 91 years old I would give you a hundred bucks. He hobbled up to me and kind of got in my face telling me about how he had copyrighted his precious song. When I got his lyric sheets it had the copyright form attached. So I was sure it was protected. I finally got to his song on the critique part of the song.IT was called "My Old Jalop, with the Shakey top" and was probably written around 1922 while he was riding around in his Model T with his racoon coat on. After trying to convince him that Barbershop quartet songs were not exactly the hottest commodity right now, I suggested he might think of updating his knowledge of the craft.

That is what it has been on almost every song I have ever recieved the entire copyright line on. And what I hear on everyone that worries about this topic. But I also know a lot of hit writers and publishers. they never seem to have these worries. And neither do I on the over 2000 songs I have written in the past 7 years. The majority quite simply dissapear, are replaced by others and never go anywhere. Why waste money and time on them.

The entire "Ripping my songs off" mentality first of all discounts the fact that the creative ego is not going to allow any reputable writer to steal anything. You are just not going to sit around listening for ideas to steal because you are too busy writing your own. Most writers don't listen to outside material just for that reason. They stay pretty isolated from the general public because they want to avoid trouble from the beginning. It is the reason for the "no outside or unsolcited material".

These songs are thrown away.If you don't know anyone who submitted it, you have no incentive to listen especially when you are the one with the hit records already. It always amuses me when the lawsuits come from some guy who lives with his mother in New Jersey who has never done anything and he sues someone like Micheal Jackson who has sold 100 million records. Did Micheal have some kind of bug in his house so he could steal all these ideas?

Lisa, the "poor man's copyright" idea has been thrown out of a LOT of cases here, and has been discounted for about 25 years here. Most attorneys will not even try that one for the reasons Jody outlined. It may still be accepted in Australia, I don't know,but here it is a long discontinued practice.

The fact from my experience is that most songs simply sound like a million other songs. The titles, the phrases, the rhymes, the approach, the melodies, all sound alike. The fact is that until you are around a LOT of songs ALL the time, you don't even see the bar that is out there so don't know what you are comparing them against.

My suggestion would be get around and listen to hundreds of songs to see just how similar they all are, before you really get worried about having someone steal your material. Investigate things like My Werx, talk to others and if you feel you must be protected, by all means file those forms. Whatever it takes to make you feel better is what you should do.

MAB

hi just buzzing around this web site checking it all out and found this subject intensly interesting. to add to what was said about the probability of similarity i'll tell you a story. i lived as a hermit for about three and ahalf years in a little cabin in the allegany moutains of Pa. no tv didn't listen to radio din't buy music. basically cut myself off from other forms of popular music expressly to avoid having other peoples ideas and melodies infiltrating my mind. i wrotes songs all the time hundreds of songs, three or four a day.i had the time with no distractions. i believe i had a few unique and original ideas but amazingly i was to find that other people had the same ideas. example. i wrote a song called "wings to fly" somehow a female singer songwriter from canada wrote a song also called wings to fly. i only read about her and her title, never heard the song and there is no way she could have heard my song called wings to fly. so how did it happen. just like it says, nothing new under the sun. i will say that other times i found that i had unwittingly written a line or title that was already used proved to be great incentive to be more creatrive and change the line and i always am happier with the change than the original idea so it helps , making me/us better writers . i am an absolute nobody in this world of song writing but i have experianced what this man has said, its all to true.

cheers david michael kissinger

Copyright.The single biggest waste of money and a writers attention. Put it out there and you are going to have people use it without your permission. forget about stealing just a line or a part of your song. They are going to just use it. What exactly are you going to do about it?

MAB

I love listening to new stuff as much as I can because it does remind me how high the bar is set and stops me settling for less. Frankly, the majority of us write in English and there are only so many practical rhymes one can have in English. We also write in western scales which all have 8 notes in them, and we only have a handful of keys to work with and the common changes are the ones that people are most comfortable with, particularly if you want a marketable song. Believe me, someone has done the same s*** that you're doing every way from Sunday.

Also - for all those people who believe that they are coming up with completely original material ripe to be ripped off, please understand that most of us start off imitating those we admire. The first song I wrote that I played live was called the Promised Land. It was, almost chord for chord, a rip off of the Bruce Springsteen song of the same name. Fortunately the springsteen song was obscure enough that no-one noticed.

I heard the two songs back to back and realized. I've played the song by request only since, but I had NO IDEA when I wrote it that it sounded so alike because I was too wrapped up in my creative process.

So lets face it, if you mail reaches the artist, which it won't, and they open it, which they won't, and they take time out of their busy schedule to listen, which they won't, then you're more likely to have ripped them off than they are to have ripped you off.

At $60 a pop then I could easily have spent $10,000 on copyrighting songs and I would have made $0 back in royalties from those songs. They got me a few nice paying gigs in bars and clubs, but a 300lb bar owner who smokes a pack a day and wouldn't know which side of a guitar you strum is hardly likely to make a million dollars off a song.

Thats not to say I've never done it and won't again, but I'm more worried about writing a song worthy of being ripped off than I am about someone stealing something I probably stole from someone else. Also, I apologize for the rant, this is something that used get to me when I'd see people spend hundreds of dollars copyrighting cliche, boring songs and then complain when they couldn't pay their rent.

There needs to be clarification of when to copyright. Calling it a big waste of money and such is really a matter of perspective.

I know of an entity that was sued by an artist. The artist attempted to sue them for using his song. They admit they used it. The catch is - the artist did not have the song copyrighted, thus too bad for him. He can't extract money from the entity. Let's just say that the entity has a lot of money to be spending on music.

It's a good thing I heard that from the mouth of an executive. It's even better knowing that I won't be giving them any music in our deal until it's copyrighted. In fact they needed a certain kind of music cue last week in which, as it happened, I had just written & finished for another situation that day. I immediately registered it with SESAC, MyWerx, and the LOC (electronic submission). Then I sent it over to them. To get two licenses off a piece of music immediately upon completion is obviously rare, but I wouldn't have sent it out in that case without copyrighting it.

Again, I understand that for a lot of hobby or part time writers it's probably not worth it. However it's not wise to say it's a waste without clarifying when it's a waste.

I was driving home last night trying to come up with a suitable analogy and heres what I found.

Copyright is like putting good tires on your car - If you have a junker that is just going to sit around in the yard or the garage, maybe get used for farm work every now and again, its probably not worth shelling out for those expensive tires.

On the other hand, if you're planning to take the car out on a race track around other people then you should bite the bullet and do what needs to be done.

The question you have to ask yourself is whether you song is a junker destined to sit around in the yard (and most are, even those of great writers!), whether its going to the Indy 500 or anywhere in between.

Be realistic, get feedback and play it smart and safe and treat it like a business, are you going to make enough to justify the $60 expense?

Well, it is up to you but it is like the old adage, an Oz. of prevention is worth a pound of cure. If songs are worth writing they are worth registering them at the copyright office.

It could be 10 years down the road when something happens. With that registration you have strong evidence if you need to go to court. True it doesn't happen very often but registration is cheap considering all the expense it would cost if you didn't have it and hundreds of dollars was involved.

If you are writing hundreds of songs you don't need to register them until you are ready to start pitching them. Until then just put them aside.

I think it's kinda sad that lowly songwriters think that someone is going to steal their material.

No-one knows who you are, or cares for that matter.

If it's not being professionally released, I simply wouldn't bother. And if it is, well, there'll be someone to take care of all that.

I like Joe Wrabecks take on this one. When I asked to use one of Joe's songs for a project, I asked "Joe, are you afraid of anyone stealing this material ? "

Answer : "No, that's Ok. If it happens, I'll just go write another one".

There's a time and a place for everything. Get into that place, and if you get there, then spend the time.

cheers, niteshift

Amen Nightshift.

Jody, your's is the LA opinion and I understand it. But I would suggest you watch these lawsuits. I am going to further now that they will go to nothing. I am also going to further that you will never see lawsuits rendering anything now ever again.

You simply can't prove to me that someone using a line or two or melody is going to have any validity at all when the number one song of the year is a direct copy of a 1970's song,when overall illegal usage for music on the Internet is absolutely rampant,
when overall piracy is decimating the industry, not gonna happen. When rappers completely sample tracks and use their own lyrics with no fear of anything. Sorry,it just doesn't ring true to me any more.

I'll tell you what I do see. I see thousands of people spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on uncopyrightable titles, uncopyrightable ideas, that are the weakest songs that exist. To me it is the "African General wants to give you $20 billion dollars. He just needs your account number to put the money in."

Someone is a writer with a song. How is anyone going to hear that song to steal it? Interent? Billions of songs a minute on the Internet. Millions of sites.

All I hear on these sites and others are people wanting to dive into one rip off web site or another and worrying about their copyrights. If you go to these sites, probably serves you right to lose your songs. Not one of them is worth the money it takes to get into.

If someone gets a title or idea I have written (happened 13 times to me in the past six years) and gets a big hit, more power to them. I write more songs. I write sometimes three a day with thousands and thousands of people.What do I need with some obscure song that I have never even listened to from someone I don't know, who is trying to slip me a CD? I don't.

And neither do professional writers. They are too busy writing their own stuff.

Sorry, we just have to agree to dissagree. I said there is a time for anything when you have a song about to be professionally released. The chances of that now are about as good as being struck by lightning in a submarine underwater but that would be the time. In order to get those songs to the level of even being considered they are going to have to be represented by a publisher because reputatble sources such as artists, producers, record labels,serious publishers, are not going to listen to anything from anyone they don't know because they are overwhelmed by product, are trying to figure out what to do with that, and are afraid of some idiot trying to sue them over their absurd song, "I love you baby, baby,WOAH!" because they are SURE no one has ever heard that before!

So yes, I believe absolutley that copyrighting for about 99.99% of songs is a complete waste of time and money.

Over the 12 years I have been teaching and then the years before that I have been dealing with people, I have listened to thousands upon thousands upon thousands of amateur songs. I have judged dozens of contests, listened to tens of thousands of artists and writers. In that time, there is not really one that I can ever remember being unique enough to steal. Not one.

They are always songs I have heard before, always something I can point to another song that sounds like it, is similar in theme and all but just a very few are so boring you can't get past the first one or two lines without turning it off and going to something else. With everyone of those people that sat down and went on and on about the copyrighting, I can almost always point to the song they are so worried about being in a musical from the 40's or 50's done thirty years before they were born.

So anyone who wants can go through the money and time on this copyright forms and legalese. That is fine. They can wait around with their song for the 3-4 years it takes to get their forms back.And they can sit on their song until it is out of date, and they have written forty or fifty more songs they like better.

We all have our take on this. Mine comes from reality and all the "They stole this.. from this songwriter or that songwriter' is never gonna change my mind. I've heard em all before.

MAB

Ha,Ha,
It is like that old saying, "Well, you know what your songs are worth" I am parphrasing here.

For more info you can go to http://www.copyrightguru.com/

Here's hoping that anyone is that interested in your songs Ray, to be bothered stealing them.

If one of mine got stolen, and made it big, I think I'd have a big grin on my face. Not to mention $17k in my pocket per offence.

Steal away. I look foward to pay day.

cheers, niteshift

Damn niteshift,
Some of my songs were pitched in Australia a few years ago. Picked up by a Sub-Publisher. Yee Haw! I have signed a few Publishing Contracts. Nashville is probably crashing as we speak. Too many songwriter's, not enough Artists, or good songs.

Yeah. Nashville is about to close up shop. The end is in sight, the curtain sinking and coming down. As a matter of fact everyone is coming to Nashville just so they can be on the sinking ship.

And of course those companies like SONY, WARNER Brothers, EMI, etc. are all just about out of business. Not like they do I pods, televisions, stereos, computers, movies, television networks,communication sattilites, grocery stores, or pretty much every other products in everyone's life. Just about over. That is why so many artists are not going there.

Oh wait a minute. That is what they said in 1989. It was all over. Oops Garth. Well that is what they said in 1994. Oops Shania Twain. That is what they said in 2000. Oops Rascal Flatts. Okay, it REALLY is over now. Oops, Taylor Swift. Oh yeah, she is the 7th highest earner in the entertainment business and that money filters down to almost every other entity in Nashville.

Oh sorry, I forget about those things. You're right. It's all over.

MAB

It's over? Dang, I'm always the last to know.

I don't understand why it's so hard to have an original melody when there are 479001600 possible combination's in the twelve note scale and that's if you only use each note once.

at least I think that's right.

Because out of those combinations, 413021567 suck.

... and if you sing off-key here and there, woah, you get a really big number of possibilities (microtones, yea, that's the ticket).

Well that still leaves 65980033 melodies not to mention the ones Kevin mentioned. And I sing those all the time. So I should be as original as a meteorite. I should hum one, record it and send it to myself in a sealed envelope.
Then go sing it on Broadway. I bet that would put some zip in the Nashville music economy.
It will be new and fresh so someone will steal it. I can sue them and get really filthy rich.

And I'll see you tonight Mike.

Last time I asked a certain poster here what was going on in Nashville. he painted a picture of gloom and doom you wouldn't believe! I'm sure glad things are looking up! Maybe I'll be a headin' up that way in June. Yee Haw!

Ray,

The doom and gloom is always from the person's perspective who is telling it. When I moved in 88', there were tons of people who used to have deals that were complaining that the town had changed since "their day" and it was all gone.

Corporations came in and "ruined everything."

That damn rock singer GARTH BROOKS destroyed the industry by bringing all that Rock and roll explosions in.

The kids had destroyed country music..

Blah blah blah.

I have never seen it be good at all for many people.

But for a certain segment,myself included, you know there are challenges and you just deal with them. years back when I knew people who were obsessing about how terrible things were,I see out now and have huge hit records.
I see people who a few years ago had huge hit records and now don't have anything.

One of the other things I deal with is many in the industry who do just what you say, complain about it.

I quit writing a lot with hit writers because I get tired of sitting in a room with someone who has a $15,000 Rolex on his wrist, driving his $85,000 BMW, and complaining because he hasn't had a cut in three years. When his last cut was the song of the year.

The difference between a six week old puppy and anyone in the music business?

The puppy eventually stops whining.

MAB

Marc,
Didn't you know, It used to be said in the Navy, A Sailor that isn't bitching isn't happy. And of course, it's the same everywhere. Look at those Public Workers in Wisconsin. They are as happy as a P*g in S*it.

Even if I was rich, I wouldn't own a $15,000 Rolex or an $85,000 BMW. I'm too damn cheap.

Amen to that my brutha.

Anchors Away!

MAB

Hey Ray. Got one for you.

Google Larry Cordle and "Lonesome Standard Time." There is a song he has called "Daddy Was a Navy Man" which is one of the coolest salutes to Navy Guys I have ever heard. Should be able to get to his web site. Trust me. You will LOVE that song.

Larry also wrote "MURDER ON MUSIC ROW" for George Straight and Alan Jackson, a few years back. Great writer and good friend. Very bluegrass in his own music but Navy Man is one of my favorite songs I didn't write.

You will thank me. Wish I had the link but I have just finished a six song 12 hour day here in Canada. But I think you can find it pretty easy. Google away.

MAB

Wow! How condescending. I give a specific example where knowing that a fellow artist who didn't copyright his material just got screwed and that it could have been prevented.

There's also JPF member (mentor I think) who got a nice reward from a famous rapper who sampled his song and it got released before the clearance came. Got a better payout than anyone who said rapper sampled and got clearance prior to the release.

So before the FUD gets to thick, be aware that there are bands who's careers were ended due to sampling without getting rights or clearance. Direct sampling is not the same boat as what you're referring to in writing copyright.

I stand by what I said before. I would copyright a song when there's a specific reason to. In my case, I had immediate use of the music I wrote, in the very situation where said big media company was happy that another artist had not copyrighted something. I don't look at it as an attitude of LA, NY, Nashville or BFE. It's called being smart about your business.

p.s. - since I'm not a litigious person, it's odd that right now I'm in and out of court and realizing exactly how much you need to protect yourself. Fortunately, I've got good representation for what I'm going through.

Jody,

I don't mean to be condecending. You have an opinion that is shared by a lot of people, which is fine. I don't see how it works any more and give you examples why I see that as true. You have an opinion and I do too. You explain yours and I do too. Nothing condescending about it. But where is the protection? How are you going to protect yourself from anything? People are going to use what you do if they want it and unless you keep it to yourself there is not a whole lot you can do about it and no piece of paper is going to do anything.

I don't know a writer in history that has not felt something they did was stolen and I don't know a writer in history that hasn't felt they were unjustly accused of some infringement. There is no way around it.

But we have different approaches. If you want to copyright all day long on every song, that is your choice.I don't. I wait until there is a reason to copyright when something is going to be released.

But to me worrying about slices of songs being lifted (which is what most people are talking about here) is nothing compared to the overall out and out theft that takes place on the majority of songs, articles, books, patents, inventions, etc. I just don't see much protection at all.

So sorry if you take that as condecension. Just two different points of view with examples on both. Yours comes from your experience mine comes from mine. Mine comes essentially that the amount of money being paid for music in this day and age is almost inconsequential. Hit songs don't even pay that much anymore.

I just don't want to see what little is made going to attorneys.
But I don't look at things from the money angle. I look at it from the creative and emotional angle.

MAB

Aha! That's the clarification I was writing was needed! Wait until there's a reason to copyright.

That's what all my examples were about. There was a reason someone should have copyrighted and didn't, then got screwed. In the case of the rap song sampling a JPF artist, that song was copyrighted. For me personally, I have licensing deals which means if I want something to go into those deals, I need to protect it immediately.

Feeling something of mine was stolen, I can cite a specific song of mine that was brought to my attention where a specific section (publicly released and performed) sounded as if it was sampled, not copied, from my song and then used as a basis for a song that went #1. I thought I had my song copyrighted - unfortunately not, though it is now. Lesson learned.

I've yet to be accused of infringement, though at some point I'm sure it will happen. However, and I'm sure Brian would back me up on this, it would be a long-shot. I apparently have a pretty unique musical DNA when I have a heavy hand in the creation. I strive for the unique twist, title and sound. Like the song we wrote. It's got some sections that are unique, a blend of your country, my rock/pop, a unique title but hasn't had a sound put to it yet. As it stands it's still not copyrighted.

Jody,

I think you and I are closer to the same page than apart. The "LA" and "New York' comments come from people a little more spread out. In Nashville the community is more compact and we tend to know each other long before we get into business together and you can't get into business together until you get to know each other.

If you go back on this thread and others, we have both said the same things that there is a time to copyright, just like a time to get your artwork and all the credits. When we sign those big contracts with publishing companies, it is still a ways away from being released. I signed a dozen of the things two years ago and still Frankie has just gotten out there.

So I agree with you that copyrights are a nessasary thing, although I maintain that they are carrying less and less weight as technology forges this brave new world we live in, and the water gets murkier and murkier and people use songs for more and more yet don't want to pay for anything.

Again, I apologize if it seems condecending but I think the points of views from the different regions have different contexts.

MAB

Thanks Kevin :-)

This came in my inbox this morning... Figured it was pertinent to the conversation.

Dear Copyright Advocates:

U.S. COPYRIGHT OFFICE WILL HIRE NEW REGISTER OF COPYRIGHTS

You may have heard that the U.S. Copyright Office is in the process of hiring a new Register of Copyrights. The former Register of Copyrights, Marybeth Peters, retired in December, and Maria Pallante has been appointed to be the Acting Register of Copyrights during the search process. For more information about the Register of Copyrights and Maria Pallante, click here.

The Copyright Alliance has been engaging in many discussions with Maria about the important role that the Copyright Office plays in our society, and how all creators rely on the Copyright Office to be a strong advocate for artists' rights. We have also encouraged the Office to select a candidate that has an appreciation of the history of copyright, a deep understanding of copyright law and strong commitment to the principles of copyright enacted by Congress and interpreted by Courts.
SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS

Maria Pallante is giving us a unique opportunity to provide the Copyright Office with thoughts from artists about the important role of copyright and the Copyright Office in our society.

I will be compiling all of your thoughts and input into one document and passing it on to Maria. So, please send me your thoughts by Monday, March 14, 2011.

I know you all are so busy, but a sentence or two (or more) from you would be most helpful. So, if you feel so inclined, please follow these simple steps: Jot down your ideas. You may want to comment on: The importance of copyright in your life;

That it is important for the Copyright Office to hire someone who is willing to understand and advocate for the creative community.

Remind the Copyright Office that the viewpoints and actions of pro-piracy groups affect creation, innovation, and the economy. Tell the Office that you disagree with these groups who:
Seem to represent illegal downloaders;

Advocate that all artists should give their works away for free (and find another way to make money);
Oppose practical piracy solutions from the creative community;
Insist that consumers' opinions on artists' rights are more important than creators' perspectives on artists' rights.

Also include your name, type of artist/creator, city, state, and your email address or other contact information -- if it's okay for the Copyright Office to contact you directly should it so desire.

Meet the deadline of Monday, March 14, 2011.

Thanks for taking a moment to weigh in on this important issue. You all are so helpful in advancing the voice of the entire creative community. Please feel free to spread the word of this request.

Best,

Lucinda Dugger
Director of Outreach

ONE VOI©E: SPEAK UP FOR CREATORS' RIGHTS

I got that one too.

U. S. Copyright law is federal.

A federal judge will not allow you to bring suit for infringement without presentation of a registration with the Library of Congress Register of Copyrights.

You won't get a chance to show your evidence of a sealed envelope or internet post. You won't get to court. A clever thief will register it themselves, giving them the legal edge.

Registration is the ONLY way to get a government document that will stand up in court, and the only way to GET to court.

U. S. copyright law is internationally recognized through the Berne Convention.

88....yep, that's about the time it really began to change...NSAI moved from Cavendar's house to that big brick building right by Reba's Starstruck Entertainment or whatever it was.

Blame it all on Kenny Rogers, Randy Travis, and Mickey Gilley. If Rogers hadn't recorded Lucille and The Gambler, if Travis hadn't changed everything with Storms Of Life, and if Gilley's had never opened his club which inspired Urban Cowboy, them corporate people wouldn't have come to steal our country gold.





A few years ago I went to Guitar Center in Nashville. I recognized the name on the tag of the guy who waited on me. He had written three top ten hits as well as had other songs recorded by Dolly, Strait, Skaggs, Don Williams, and others back when they were hot. It sort of shocked me to see him there but he's happy enough.

If you were Elton John, you could call it the circle of life. It is the nature of things and always has been.

MAB