JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Esperanza Spalding winning best new artist. Help me understand.

Hi guys,

I wanted comments on the win of Esperanza Spalding as best new artist.

You should have seen the outbreak on Twitter from the Beiber fans. Wow. There was 500 hateful messages every 15 seconds. It was out of control. Trust me. They were coming in at different languages.

Last time something similar happened it was with Norah Jones.

I bought the Norah Jones CD and I felt it was deserved. I felt it was a 10/10 CD and it wowed me.

I know in the Jazz world things can get a bit political. Example fundraisers, gov't subsidies, etc to this genre of music. (here where I live anyway).

What kind of raised my eyebrow was when she was featured as a graduate from the Academy sponsored fund so she obviously is around the academy. That was a bit troubling to see just going by the bad reputation the industry has.

Anyhow, I just purchased Esperanza Spalding 'Chamber Music Society' and am listening to it now.

To be honest, it isn't that good in my opinion. The song melody isn't great, the mixture of instruments aren't that great. It's a too 'mish mashy'. Sounds very vanilla... confused. There are odd violins here and there. Vocals in illogical places. Certainly not top quality arrangement and writing. Nothing near that Norah Jones quality (not that they should be compared but I know a proper arrangement and good music when I hear it, this ain't it). I'd say it's 'ok' or average. Good. But not to win a major Grammy award.

On wikipedia it actually shows her first album in 2006. She's not a newcomer from what it seems. That is 5 years ago.

I'm obviously not a Beiber fan nor think he should have won it, but I was hoping if someone could help me understand her getting this award or what the reasoning was behind her getting this 'best newcomer' award. I'm listening it now. I feel it's far from deserved to be honest. She doesn't have that 'special' voice for this style of music. I was actually hoping to buy a great album with years of lasting power like Norah Jones.

Here's the song I'm listening to now. You can critically listen and see what I mean. I'd describe at as 'sloppy' in a bad way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RANxkGShkrM

I've been an Esperanza Spaulding fan for years. She is truly a tremendous musical talent. David Letterman once called her the coolest musical guest he ever had. Wow, I'm glad to see this.

BTW, I haven't heard "chamber music society" but her early stuff. Check out youtube, she is truly a gifted singer and upright bassist.

Oh I'm beginning to see why she won the award. It's becoming clear now.

I guess the music industry really is a rotten, using, shady industry if that's the case.

Yeah, I'm rotten too, I guess LOL. The BIG winner, tho, was the Alan Parsons Project.

It's all a question of taste, we could talk about it for a very long time.
I only discovered her after the Grammies - that is today
But the fact that both Stevie Wonder AND Mike Dunbar like her makes me think I could spare another couple of listens in the near future, LOL!

PS: not to compare her to anyone ... just to say tastes are highly subjective and change through time ... first time I heard John Coltrane, I hated that; Just saying

Have a great day,
Yann

Esparanza who? I've never heard of her until tonight and honestly, I kinda' feel that politics played a part in her win. Justin Bieber should have taken home the grammy.

Yup, my reaction too. Esparanza Who?

But then I have not listened much to Bieber, found Florence + The Machine only a week or so ago, never heard of Mumford & Son ... so who am I to say?

That she's good though is, if the above links and the following article (from Huffington Post) is any indication, self evident.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/14/esperanza-spalding-grammy-best-new-artist_n_822741.html


Where I am puzzled is how can she be the best new artist as she's been doing this now for 6 years, and has 8 CDs to her credit (admittedly the first few, as noted by the article, probably should not count)

Bruce Hornsby had been in music 10 years when he got his GRAMMY for BEST NEW ARTIST....

Tom

Suspect they were all 12 year old girls ....

No slam on Justin or 12 year old girls intended

Justin and Esperanza seem different enough that it would be impossible for me to say that one is better than the other. Like saying this apple is better than that spaghetti.....

So I suspect it comes down to a tally of individual tastes.......

I had not heard of Esperanza either - but I checked out the the first vid that Mike posted and I was sold on her within 30 seconds.

I've read some about Justin and I am impressed by him. But I'm not a big fan of his music - just not my kind of thing. I doubt he'll lose sleep over that

Scott

I was introduced to her work in 2006, and wrote a thread about her then. It's kind of funny that folks say they never heard of her, but she's been around too long to get a new artist award. LOL. When the tween acts win, people complain, when the modern pop acts win, people complain. Here a young, black woman who plays in a genre that is rarely rewarded, who is much jazzier and sophisticated in her music than practically anyone who has won Best New Artist, and who is not only a fine singer who does not use autotuning in her live shows, but is a songwriter and a world class instrumentalist on the acoustic upright bass, which she plays without autotuning, and...people complain.

There is one lesson to be learned here. No matter what...people complain.

Mike,

Shelby Lynne, who recorded my first cut, "THAT'S WHERE IT HURTS' in 1989, won "Best New Artist" after 9 years in the business and 11 records.

MAB

All awards have a certain amount of politics in it. They are voters who have to belong to the NARAS organization who vote. They are also lobbied hard by contestents. When I was a member, the mailbox was full of advertisements, junk mail and "STUFF" involved.

Everybody has their favorites just like life. I don't know this person but when people like Mike play them up I would definately listen.

But everyone has to understand that there are hundreds of thousands of things out there they never see. Even on boards like this, there is a constant gripe and complaint that "all of country sounds the same and is blah blah blah..." The fact is most people see and hear very little of what is out there.

You have someone hear who obviously has been around for a while and won hearts and minds (AND VOTES) in a catagory. Probably the best thing is to either find out a little bit of the back story, pat her and her people on the back and maybe look a little deeper for your own Esperanza for the future. Better yet, be a part of that person's journey.

Want to be successful at this? Get on board a train before it leaves the station.

MAB

Marc, I'll bet there are very, very few past recipients of Best New Artist who only recorded one album (very few) or had only been touring for a year (probably none).

Choo Choo!

I was not complaining Mike, just puzzled. And I like the idea of jazz being recognized here as well.

Maybe if we look at it as "breakout" artist" vs "new" artist, it all comes into focus.??

John, I guarantee you, if they called it "breakout artist" people would still have complained. If they called it "Fred" people would still have complained. If Justin Beiber, Florence + the Machine, Drake, or Mumford and sons had won, people still would have complained. The winners are the variables. It is complaining that is the constant.

Lots of people are saying she deserves the award because she can play an instrument and sing.

I judge overall song structure, melody, lyrics. Basically a total package.

Norah Jones is someone in my opinion who had universal appeal and deserved her award. Espa does not in my opinion and I after reading even more I do believe there was a motive and it was a political.

Honestly I listened to her whole album and it wasn't that good. Very sloppy. Poor arrangement in my opinion. Very mediocre song writing with thrown together lyrics that don't make sense. Like 'the rain on the window is cataplilar of flowers' sort of writing. Throwing words together to 'sound artistic' rather than the real thing like Jones.

In my opinion she needs better management. Songs from song writers. Arrangers. etc. Right now I do not believe her music is very good aside from the fact that she can sing and play bass.

If you download her album Chamber Music, you might find yourself a disappointed customer.

I honestly never heard of the lady before, but after listening to her music after the awards, she deserves every award she can get. That is just amazing work I think. Love every second of her music

And there is nothing about her "music" that I like. Nothing. I totally agree with the post just prior to yours. She can play bass and sing, that's it for me.

Then again, jazz does not appeal to me at all. Technically proficient players, yes. But not my bag. To each, his own. I'm happy for the jazz lovers, good for them.

Ok listening to chamber music society again and here is my assessment:

I would call her music 'Jazz Slop'.

Basically lyrics just thrown in here and there. Lyrics (words) just thrown together.

Melody very sloppy. Almost she's making it up as she goes.

Poor arrangement of instruments. Violins will just come in out of nowhere.. do not fit the tracks.

Most importantly is the melody of the tracks. I listen to a lot of Jazz on the radio while cooking in the kitchen. I do believe that there are a lot of quality acts and great Jazz music.

Spalding is not one of them in my opinion. I think politics are more at the heart of her TV appearances and win last night because I simply cannot award merit to her album or any kind of achievement.

You leave her album feeling like you just walked down a cold, windy city clock in Chicago - you come out messy and uncomfortable. Not an enjoyable experience.

I highly suggest people download the album or go on Youtube and listen for themselves and see if it's quality music. She needs a lot of help with melody, songwriting and arrangement in my opinion of course.

EDIT - This leads back to my original question of wanting to find talent and work with artists. You can find talent that obviously have 'appeal' (as so many around the Internet love her without even listening to her album), but in reality her music isn't that good and she needs a lot of help with her songwriting and arrangement. I'm very confident the mainstream would not like her album. The question is how do you approach an artist offering to help improve them and nicely tell them that their stuff CURRENTLY isn't that good and they are not at their potential that they should be and you'd like to help?

Watched about 1/2 of the three videos Mike posted. It is the kind of music that I love to hear live, but it is not in my normal listening rotation. She has a lot of talent, it's a big world of music out there. Glad to see someone off the more beaten path getting some kudos.

Kevin

Duke
that is the great wonder of music, there is so many genres and styles , something for everyone. I freely admit she does not do the music I normally listen to at all. But I do enjoyed hearing her now that I see what the award was all about. I would not buy the CD at all cause it isn't my music. Heck for me it is country and folk and even that it is old country and old folk music (hillbilly) stuff which sure doesn't appeal to many today. So I see where tastes are all so very different. I love the differences because there is something for everyone.

Thank you

She is hella cute....

Let me put this in perspective a bit. Go see Never Say Never in theaters and watch an inspiring success story of a boy who went against all odds to follow his dream, AND DID....Then tell me he doesn't deserve recognition for that. In a span of a few years, he went from a kid no one knew to a household name. He's done more than most would do in a handful of lifetimes.

I know! It seems like Bieber has been around forever already too.

The big win for me was Arcade Fire topping Eminem, Gaga and Perry...striking a blow for fine indie talent! I've got nothing against the others, but I find Arcade Fire's music to be much more interesting than the other offerings, which get a lot more press and airplay.

OMG ... wow, to each his own ... I think she is nothing short of FABULOUS ... unique, beautiful, original ... the melody isn't repetitive ... HYPE, I bet you are very regimented ... wake up same time every day, same breakfast I dunno...I find the "avant garde" style to be refreshing ... I loved all three videos ... there has NEVER been a bass playing beautiful woman with a great voice before ... YES MIKE ... no matter what you do, people complain...DID I mention I thought she's amazing ? OH and Mark, yes Arcade Fire ...HIGH FIVE buddy ... the little guys pulled one off !! I am going to see them in May...my nephew got us all tix ! Good to have some twenty year olds in the family

Can't say I'm familiar with her music, but I'm overjoyed that a true musician beat out a here today gone tomorrow teen pop tart.
Real classy antics by "the Beaver's" fans too. Go to your room kiddies!

Because of the uproar by Bieber fans, I checked out a bunch of her stuff on Youtube. FANTASTIC talent! I guess I should thank Justin's fans for turning me on to a talented lady I would have otherwise not discovered.I'm sure I'm not alone.I'll bet there's thousands like myself checking her out to see what the fuss was about. Sorry kids, looks like your collective tantrum backfired! For once talent and substance wins out over hype and popularity. There might be hope yet for the grammy's {or this industry in general!}

Wow I guess I asked on the wrong forum lol.

I'm getting a lot of 'she's pretty and talented so she should have one, yet, I will not buy her album or actually judge her music'.

This afternoon my wife and brother did a listening session and compared it back to back with Norah Jones. The overall opinion was that Spalding had a very 'messy' style that went no where and caused confusion. Melody was not there at all. Vocals were not unique. Whole album sounded like it was made in an hour with scratched lyrics. Actually, there aren't even any lyrics until like the 5th song.

My wife after 2 songs said she couldn't listen to it anymore.

I know a lot here are string musicians and see her as some sort of colleague, but as music fans ourselves, we definitely agreed Norah Jones trumped out Spalding to the point where they could not even be compared on the same playing field.

Actually let me say this, the people in this very thread (in my opinion) write better music than Spalding.

In conclusion and considering her Berkley ties and White House affiliations and considering the political lobbying of the academy, I have to say she was awarded as a political symbol, not for actual merit.

And yeah you should have seen the Bieber fans on Twitter last night. WOW.. they were going NUTS. Death threats. They couldn't believe it. I turned around to say a few sentences to my wife, turned back to the computer. It said '496 new tweets'. That's how INSANE it was. Man the Beiber fans can form an army lol..

Ok I just found a video of twitter when Beiber lost.. lol hillarious http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQP_xhAu4Jg

I was under the impression that the Grammy award for Best New Artist was not given for the current album, but for the artist. So, I checked the Grammy site and, lo and behold, in the Best New Artist category, no albums or songs or even labels are mentioned. I've quickly scrolled through the entire list of nominees for 2011, and unless I missed something in EVERY other category, usually a song or album and always the label is mentioned.

http://www.grammy.com/nominees

But that's only a peripheral issue. The thing is, no matter how much anyone speculates, nobody knows why people like or dislike things. Are the grammies rigged? I don't know, maybe. Here's their process: http://www.grammy.org/recording-academy/awards/voting-process

Either way, though, I'm happy Esperanza won, and I don't particularly like Dave Letterman (though I'm a big fan of Will Lee's ).

Why does everyone keep comparing her unfavorably to Norah Jones? Apples and Oranges.Two completely different artists.Like comparing Green Day to Led Zeppelin because they are both "Rock"

Can't help but quote Ozzy here. "Who the f^@# is Justin Bieber?"
hahahahaa!!!