JPF Home Page Forums Lyric and MP3 Feedback MP3 Feedback Forum Looking for some feedback......Please?

I am new to this site. I have been sitting on some of my music for awhile and would like to let some people have a listen who are not family and friends! I just put one on soundclick and would appreciate it so much if someone would check it out and let me know what he/she thinks! Thanks. This song is called "Promises"

Through Lawley field, 'cross the face of the rollin hills
Through the high grass mid bloomin daffodils
By the stream to the banks of the river
Innocence and the promise of a coming day

www.soundclick.com/tracyharris

Come on down, place your feet in the muddy waters
Feel the cold run through your veins
A little stick, blood is thicker than water
And the hours, oh the hours, they slip away

By the old barn all tired and broken down
Near old Mr. Donnelly's where we used to hang around
sharing thoughts, tossing rocks down a wishing well
Promises, only time could tell

come on down, place your feet in the muddy waters
Feel the cold run through your veins
A little stick, blood is thicker than water
And the days, oh the years, they slip away

I do remember the night your father went away, we were so young
When your mother passed you seemed so frightened by life's hour glass
Our different lives got in the way
We could only sit back and watch the promises fade away

Come on down, place your feet in the muddy water
Feel the cold run through your veins
A little stick, blood is thicker than water
And the time, time, time, time, time, time, time, it slips away......

Tracy, please provide a link to your song so that we can hear it.

Take time as well to browse the forums; it's the best way to get to know what's going on. And there's lots! Be sure to pop in to the Lyrics Feedback Forums and comment on others' work. Or listen to others' MP3s. That way you'll encourage more people to check yours out.

And welcome to the site.

Donna

Donna, thanks for the quick response!! You're too fast!! I think I have it all typed in. This is my first attempt at this link so let me know if it doesn't work

Link works good. Is that you singing and playing? Great demo recording.
I like this story and I think your visuals are really good in this lyric. I like the guitar solo, but it may have stretched the song a little long. It is a nice break though.
I like the music style. The violin is a nice touch.
Good stuff. And welcome to the site.

thanks. I think I was responding to your song while you were responding to mine! I was playing the acoustic pick in this one and singing. But I have some very talented musicians with me who really bring my music alive. I am very fortunate to have met them! Thanks for the feedback.

Tracy,

Very nice sound, good singing and all the instrumentation seems very well done. Might be a little over compressed, though -- everything seems so loud.

What kind of review are you looking for? Is there a target market/audience you are seeking? Are you the artist/performer at all times or are you looking to have others perform your stuff (or are you just having fun!)?

Lyrically, you have some interesting images, details and metaphors -- but there is not a real "story", per se. That doesn't mean it is bad or wrong, or maybe there is a story in there for you.
"blood is thicker than water" -- this usually means family is involved here. Is the person who lost her father and mother a relative or just a friend? Since you have implied a blood relative, maybe her (or his) relationship to you would be helpful.

Anyway, it is a great little first tune to post here and welcome to the JPF!! You definitely have a more complete, professional sound than most of us around here -- so you feel free to stick around!

Kevin

Really just having fun but am thinking that I would like to do something that combines music, poetry, painting and photography - perhaps in a gallery type setting someday. I don't think it would be all my own stuff as I have some amazingly talented friends, but would like to narrow down 5 or 6 songs of my own that people respond to and use these in my project. It is still an idea in the works, but I am just starting to pull some things together. The song is written about a childhood memory - friend. About how the innocence of youth makes you feel like there is not a care in the world and that promise that you make to one another to always be there...things happen, life happens and sometimes you grow apart. Thanks for your feedback!

Tracy,
I am new to this site also. You will get a lot of friendly/good advice here. Song sounds good to me. If you are the one singing you have a great voice. No suggestions from me as this song sounds pretty complete. Great job!
Ricky

Tracy, That's a good-sounding tune. Well produced and sung. You got a good voice and a fine arrangement on this song. Sure can't find anything wrong with this one. I think a lot of people will like it.

Very nice stuff! A very clean and professional sounding recording. Don't give up!

Thank you for taking the time to listen!

Hi Tracy. Welcome. Do I detect a Celtic influence here?
This is a good song and a really good sound.
If I was forced to nit pick I would change the line "a little stick, blood is thicker than water" To me it doesn't add up.
Also you seem a little hurried singing "when your mother passed you seemed so frightened by life's hour glass". Removing the "so" may help.
On the whole though this is very nice. Nice voice too.
Vic

Thanks for the welcome and the input. I have been told by a friend that there is a little Celtic sound to it, not sure where that comes from. "a little stick" refers to the idea of blood sisters - pricking your fingers and mixing the blood when you are good friends as a kid - maybe it something we only did in the small farm towns of PA. But thanks for the suggestions!

Good job on the singing and playing.
Lyric-wise and story-wise, a little vague in places--the blood line for one as mentioned. Need to remember "You" know the story, "We" don't.
Someone mentioned "Crowded" --I'd agree. Some of your long lines sound "squished" trying to get them to fit in.
A little condensing-- cutting out a few words ,would be in order IMO.
O K, I'm not an easy critiquer One doesn't learn anything from "Backpatting"
All Just my opinion of course.
Overall, I like it
As someone said, seems Celtic influenced ?
Carry on
Wy
(Oh, yeah, Folks might have trouble remembering the title.I think it's only mentioned once and that not even in the C

Tracy, I love the music/melody, production and vocals. Some nice imagery as well. It was a pleasure listening to the song.

If you ever decide to re-record, however, I have a few suggestions with regard to the lyrics. There are places that need tightening up, strengthening, and clarification. I feel this would give the lyric heaps more punch and bring it more closely into line with that fantastic music.

I've mentioned some below, and hope the comments are helpful. Keep or sweep, of course.

Donna

"Promises" The title needs to be stronger, hookier. Ideally it should be in the chorus.

Through Lawley field, 'cross the face of the rollin hills
Through the high grass mid bloomin daffodils
By the stream to the banks of the river
Innocence and the promise of a coming day This line doesn't seem connected to the previous three.

Chorus
Come on down, place your feet in the muddy waters
Feel the cold run through your veins This image seems odd here. It also has a negative association that doesn't match the mood of the lyric. Perhaps mention something about the coolness of the water on skin.
A little stick, blood is thicker than water The meaning of this line is unclear.
And the hours, oh the hours, they slip away

By the old barn all tired and broken down I feel this could be tightened. The word "old" already implies the barn is tired and broken down. Perhaps more concrete details. What colour was the barn? Were the sides caving? etc.
Near old Mr. Donnelly's where we used to hang around
sharing thoughts, tossing rocks down a wishing well I feel "sharing thoughts" is vague. Perhaps "Shared our secrets".
Promises, only time could tell The notion of "promises" isn't strongly connected to what's gone before.

Chorus
come on down, place your feet in the muddy waters
Feel the cold run through your veins
A little stick, blood is thicker than water
And the days, oh the years, they slip away

I presume this is a verse and not a bridge? The metering and rhyme scheme though are different from those of verses 1 & 2. Consistency in the rhyming pattern and so on helps keep the listener's attention. In fact, verse 1 is AABC, verse 2 is AABB, and verse 3 is ABCC.
I do remember the night your father went away left, we were so young
When your mother passed you seemed so frightened by life's hour glass I don't feel this last part conveys the grief and confusion the girl probably felt.
Our different lives got in the way
We could only sit back and watch the promises fade away

Chorus
Come on down, place your feet in the muddy water
Feel the cold run through your veins
A little stick, blood is thicker than water
And the time, time, time, time, time, time, time, it slips away...... [/quote]

Hi Tracy,

This is really nicely done overall. You have a great sound and it seems your "team" is working well for you. Several comments above have covered the tightening aspect on the lyrics so I won't repeat here. Musically, I think it's wonderful. I got a little Celtic from it too.

I only have one nit and it may very well be just a matter of preference. Aside from the song being well over 5 minutes, the musical interlude between every line of the verses, for me, detracted from the story. Depending on you plans for this song, it may or may not be too long. I liked it overall a lot, but not everyone is that patient. Just some thoughts.

Ricki

Donna,
I appreciate the time you spent going through the lyrics. Thanks for giving it so much thought. It seems to be the consensus that the lyrics are a little vague, though I suppose I did that on purpose. I guess I like the listener to have their own interpretation of the song and not know exactly what I was thinking when I wrote it. But perhaps that is not ideal for everyone. I will give it some thought! Thanks

Ricki,

Thanks to you as well for your feedback. I know that many of my songs are a little on the long side for commercial use. I even added the piano intro after the fact! I really started writing purely for an artistic outlet. But know that I have to keep that in mind moving forward. Thanks again for the post!

Tracy,
I love vague lyrics if they drag the listener in to the mystery.
Listen to Bob Dylan's "Senor" or Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah"
It's a bit like the emperor's new clothes.
Vic

Thanks for listening Vic.

Hi Again, Mz Tracy!

I was with Vic on the "Stick" Line..BUT, now that You've Explained It, I think I've ended-up rather Fond of That Line!

I'm frankly Fond of Everything you've put into this one--Fine Vocals, Great Music, LOTS of "Feel" and Mood, along with Interesting Scenery. The sense of Loss-of-Innocence and Friendship..to Time & Un-Fulfilled "Promises" is pervasive..and "Universal" to us Older Listeners.

"KUDOS" for a Heck of a Beautiful Song, M'LadyChum!

Looking forwards to hearing more of 'em,
Best Wishes & Big Hugs,
Stan

This is the best song I have heard on JPF in quite a while. Sounds very professional - I could hear Union Station doing this one but you don't really need them - you sound great. I love the combination of bluegrassy and electric sounds plus drums. I guess it's Americana or alternative country.

Let me know when you get your CD done - I want one.

That is such a nice compliment and very much appreciated. I thank you very much!

Thank you Stan. This is the first time I have really ever discussed my songs with anyone so I am not sure how much I need to explain the lyrics up front. I am a late comer to the music scene so I don't have too much experience in the "dos and don't of song writing - if there is such a thing!

"dos and don't of song writing - if there is such a thing!


Rules were made to be broken!

Hi Tracy,

Welcome! I think you have an excellent song here. What a wonderful way to introduce yourself. I don’t know that I’d change anything, it sounds really good!

Dottie

Thank you Dottie - love your picture, miss having a little baby around....

I agree rules are made to be broken. But first one needs to know the rules.

One rule of thumb: A lyric generally should stand on its own and not need to be explained. It ought to be clear to the listener what message the songwriter wants to convey. Anything the listener brings to that is a bonus for her/him.

Mind you, much depends on genre. Some songs can get away with being abstract or vague (a few of Dylan's or Cohen's spring to mind).
I may be wrong, but I feel that in your story - with its sensational music and vocals - it's important for the details/description to be as tight as possible in order to really pull the listener in, make her feel she's right there with the singer. A good mix of conciseness and details - the visual furniture - is like a magnet to the listener.

But this is just one person's opinion, and you indicated you wanted these.

Donna

Yep on the rules. Examples of when they've been broken by well know songwriters is almost beside the point--THEY could get by with it "Because" they were famous and they knew which rules to break and when.
The best of all worlds is when the lyric and the music can each ctand on their own
THIS song has a definite story to it. Therefore the story needs to be understandable to the average listener if it's to be put out for public consumption.
A song can be good with good music and poor lyrics or with good lyrics and poor music, but how much better if they're "Both" good.
All that said, it depends on what someone wants to "Do" with their songs.
Just another opinion.
Still like your song, just think it can be better as can any song
for that matter.
Carry on
Wy

Tracy....excellent song....excellent music and vocal is outstanding....that's all I need to say.....keep up the good work....Bob

Thanks Bob. I appreciate you taking the time to listen!

This is really great, very well written and performed (all around). A lot of talent here. You have a fine voice. This track is already album-worthy.

I wouldn't worry about making it more of a story or even shortening it. This song has a nice sense of place that supports the sketchy story weaved throughout, leaves something to the imagination. I enjoyed it as is. Some songs just take a little time. I liked the contrast between the more leisurely/paced verses and the faster choruses.

My only disappointment was no download button.

..ant

Thank you Ant. I really appreciate your feedback!

This is outstanding Tracy. Both the groove and the lyric/story. I'm impressed. Hang around and let us hear more.

Stevie

Thanks Stevie. I appreciate you taking the time to listen!

I only have one thing to say here.....WOW, wish there was a greater but for now WOW has it.....great all the way around, has that HIT sound......congs and good luck..

and welcome to JPF's...glyn

That is so nice. Thanks so much for your kind words!

Tracy,

Very nice song.

I am from Pittsburgh and know what you are talking about, we called it "blood sisters/brothers", I didn't know that until you posted about it. It would be nice to clarify the lyrics, but when the song itself is really good, sometimes that can pass, but if YOU wanted to create a more emotional connection for the listener, changes to the title/lyric would be the way to go.

It is long, but it is a good listen and it doesn't "seem" long to the listener.

Great vocal, reminds me of the Cranberries...

and welcome to JPF.

Tammy

Thanks Tammy. I have had a lot of fun listening to all the different artists on this site.

Hey, thanks to all that took the time to listen to this song. The song made number 1 in the Soundclick chart in folk rock today which I know doesn't mean much, but at least people are listening!

Tracy, your #1 position is well deserved - it is an excellent song.

Bob

Thanks Bob.

Those early posts are some very probing and considered critiques. Songwriters seldom get such in-depth feedback. Well done members.

Listeners/readers are telling you how the lyric 'works' in 'hooking' them, and where they may have come 'un-hooked'.

I notice the introductory passage is long. That's fine for live play, and may work well for use in TV or movie synchronization. For radio a short intro is desired. The piano part is 0:20. Then the main intro begins. The first line takes you up to 0:40 (about). The third line only gets you 1:00 in.

The music of the intro (instrumental) replays and you get right to the bridge. That's good. That change of dynamics renews interest.

At about 1:53 you're into Verse 2, and it takes you to 2:25 or so, and a repeat of the bridge, ending at 2:57.

A repeat of the musical phrase by the instruments serves as a hook of its own. The listener has become familiar with it as a recurring theme, tying the whole together, as memorable as the vocal melody and lyrical lines.

The bridge repeat takes you to 3:37. Instrumental interlude to 4:08 where the musical hook reintroduces the third giving of the bridge.

I note the clarity of enunciation, delivering the words to my ear so I get them the first time. Well done.

Ending at 5:10. That's too long for radio, perhaps. They like them shorter so they can do more ads, to pay the bills. Even without the 0:20 piano intro you're at 4:50. Without the instrumental interlude you'd be roughly at 4:20. It would be hard to cut this down to the usual 3:30 or so radio prefers. Perhaps it isn't meant for commercial radio, but more of a singer/songwriter style. Radio play can get you noticed, and these longer songs ("Promises", "Shouldn't Have To Try") can stand on their own with consumers.

The effect of the long intro is to postpone the vocal, which delays getting to THE hook of the title and the intensified emotion of the bridge.

(Verse 1)
Through Lawley field, 'cross the face of the rollin' hills
Through the high grass 'mid bloomin' daffodils
By the stream to the banks of the river
Innocence and the promise of a coming day

(This last line follows three, long prepositional phrases. It is the last chance to make a complete sentence of the whole first verse.

What is it that moves 'Through Lawley field, 'cross..., Through..., 'mid..., By..., to...? You need a noun in there, an 'actor' to do the 'acting' of all those words. Without it these are four lines of observations, without an observer. Without the noun (or pronoun) the singer-character is not yet in the song. Someone has to own the 'innocence' and perceive the 'promise'.

The singular 'promise' is not the intended title, as indicated, which is plural, "Promises". You could say:

WE LIVED IN innocence and PromiseS of a coming day

With that you have the pronoun, and the title.

Use of the title in the last line of the verse makes it a 'chorus-refrain', as opposed to a 'stanza-type' chorus, which is why I refer to the next stanza as a bridge. That pattern of last line refrain repeats, with variations in other verses. Ideally, they should repeat identically, to drive home that as THE hook, the title people will remember, especially when they want to request it or buy a copy.

A title ideally repeats at least 3 times, and more is stronger, and in strategic positions, the last line of each verse, as a chorus-refrain, or the last line of a stanza-type chorus, or the first and last lines in the stanza-type.

In the Bridge (below) the singer-character speaks directly to someone, a 'conversational' lyrical style. It is first-person. She is not telling us, the listeners/reader, about something. We just happen to be eavesdropping, which has a strong hook-factor, to be in on someone else's intimacies. Or, we get to assume the character of the singer and be the person in the song.

Come on down, place your feet in the muddy waters
Feel the cold run through your veins
A little stick, blood is thicker than water
And the hours, oh the hours, they slip away

(If 'blood brother/sister' is what is intended by 'A little stick' you could say so, instead. That makes it quite clear. The practice of cutting one's finger to share blood with another was a native American ritual.)

Blood brother, blood is thicker than water
Or:
Blood sister, blood is thicker than water

(Verse 2)
By the old barn all tired and broken down
Near old Mr. Donnelly's where we used to hang around
sharing thoughts, tossing rocks down a wishing well
Promises, only time could tell

(Your last line of Verse 2 doesn't match the melody of the last line of Verse 1.

Innocence and promise of a coming day (11 syllables/notes to sing)
Promises, only time could tell (8 syllables/notes)

(Ideally, the position of the title should be the same in each final line. The number of syllables dictates the number of notes to be sung, and the melody. If they vary the listener may come unhooked. The repetition of an identical melody supplies structure the listener can relate to. So you could say;

Innocence and promiseS of a coming day (12 syll/notes)
Innocence and Promises, only time could tell (12 syll/notes)

(This may suggest the title become "Innocence and Promises".)

(Or;)
WE LIVED IN innocence and PromiseS of a coming day
(And;)
WE LIVED IN innocence and PromiseS, only time could tell

(Repeat Bridge)

(Melodically, this variant movement below serves as a bridge too, serving the function of breaking monotony of repetition. You’ve been through a musical movement twice, at this point, verse, bridge, verse bridge, so the listener is ready for a change of dynamics to refresh the ear. This enables a repeat of the other bridge without seeming too repetitious.)

I do remember the night your father went away, we were so young
When your mother passed you seemed so frightened by life's hour glass
Our different lives got in the way
We could only sit back and watch the promises fade away

(The last line (above) can vary from the chorus-refrain, since it is a variant movement, not meant to repeat identically to the preceding verses)

(Instrumental Interlude)

Come on down, place your feet in the muddy water
Feel the cold run through your veins
A little stick, blood is thicker than water
And the time, time, time, time, time, time, time, time, oh…. it slips away......
And the time, time, time, time, time, time, time, oh…. it slips away......

Mmm...it is what it is as they say. I'm not complaining one bit. Did my "ear" go elsewhere in places? Absolutely. Might I have changed a bit here and there? Maybe. Does any of that matter? Not at all.

Someone said Celtic. I hear a lot of Dire Straits in this, particularly the guitar solo...probably because (I think) it is in the same key as their classic Sultans Of Swing.

Nice effort and kudos to you and your song circle. And you have a great voice!

Gary,
Thanks for the in depth review, although I have to admit that it was all a little over my head. But I did ask for feedback! All the songs that I have written have purely just been for fun. Five years ago I did not even know what a hook or a bridge was. I started playing guitar three years ago and never gave an ounce of thought as to whether I might hear one of my songs on the radio someday. That being said, maybe I will take a different approach going forward just to see what I come up with. You have sufficiently outlined the proper song structure. Whether or not I can make that happen is another story!! Not sure whether you liked the song or not

Thanks John. I agree with the dire straits guitar. My friend Larry gave it an interesting sound.

I like this song, I can picture it, standing in the water, watching time slip away, it goes so much faster then a bubbling stream. Your lyrics took me back to a childhood pastime I so enjoyed.~~~MFB III

Tracy--

You are getting yourself positioned for a HIT--I love your honesty and clean approach to production--

WRITE AND SING ON GIRL!

Mackie

Thank you Mackie and thank you MFB lll. I thought this one was dead! Thanks for reviving it and for your feedback!

Nothing huge to add to what everyone said so far - I like the music and the vocal a lot, as well as the Dire Straits guitar on the instrumental break!

I love lyrics that have strong images and so many of the images were a little too vague for my liking. I'm not sure who you're addressing. I also had to go all the way to the bridge to understand the song:

"I do remember the night your father went away, we were so young
When your mother passed you seemed so frightened by life's hour glass
Our different lives got in the way
We could only sit back and watch the promises fade away"

If you introduced the idea of being young earlier on then that may have helped me understand and would probably have hooked me in earlier. I'm being a little pedantic with that though. :-)

I think it would have helped more to have some people in there - "I walked through Lawley field." You describe a lot of places, but not the characters involved. Perhaps revealing more about yourself and the person you're addressing would help. To me it seems to be about to children who were freinds/lovers who drifted apart so understanding these two folks better would help me related. I think we've all had an experience like that!

Please feel free to completely ignore everything I say. Every time I think of something I'd change I think it sounds good the way it does now, so I may just be making it different... :-)