JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Mentor Questions Forum co-writer/copyright issue

Hello, all

heres my problem. several years ago, i got involved in a pretty lopsided cowriting relationship with someone. this person didnt do much writing at all, but they did do all the legwork involved with pitching our songs. i say "our songs" loosely, because i wrote the majority of the songs myself, and she "arranged" them. but we copyrighted them together.

we had a rather unfriendly parting of the ways several years ago. we have not been in touch, except for one cease and desist letter i sent her because she was trying to pitch a song i had written by myself to a publisher i knew to be a shark.

my question is this. several of the songs we copyrighted together
were originally copyrighted by me alone. i have the original forms. what are the legalities of removing this persons name from my material, and pitching them under my sole authorship? is the original copyright still valid? or do i need to file a new one? there are a good number of songs involved here. i'd hate to write them off as lost causes.

any help with info would be greatly appreciated!

Write more songs.

M

marc,

i have been, and will continue to. but with all due respect, thats a little like telling a mother whose baby died to have more children.

not really, of course, and i dont mean to be flip. but i was pretty naive and easily led when i first started pitching songs. someone said, you scratch mine, ill scratch yours, and i fell for it. but it isnt as easy as just giving up on those songs. i wrote them, and theyre important to me. i cant believe i dont have some recourse.

Hi all,
Not sure what you are saying. If you registered songs in your name only and then re-registered the songs in both names you have a sticky wicket as it were. Usually you can register a song only once.

Assuming a song you and an other writer have registered for copyright ever goes anywhere you both have a legal right to royalities.

If you had no written co-writer agreement you still have a 50/50 split on the royalities if anything ever happens.

The only recourse you would have would have to be decided in a Court of Law if it comes to that. Go with what you have. Where you have registered a song with both writers give them the credit for the co-write. You could go it alone and never hear anything from the other person, or not.

As I understand the law, you own the original song that you wrote before the collaboration as well as the collaborative effort itself. You can do whatever you want with the original song and your cowriter can't stop you, however, you can't take away their collaboration either unless you can prove that you did not have an agreement with them to cowrite. Now, I may be wrong, here, I'm not a lawyer, but that's the way I understand it. Yes, you can register a copyright on both, they are different songs with the same name...your original and the derivative piece you both wrote. A quick google can show you how many songs might have the same title. Just google "I love you lyric" and see how many songs turn up

Yes, protect your babies, but just because you have one baby you love doesn't mean you should stop making new ones either

Ruby,

Once you copyright a song, you have that writer involved in the song, period. You can do different versions of that song but that person is on it. You cannot write a person off the song. And if you were to get involved in something with that song, if you think the things you have gone through now are bad, you have never imagined the things that will happen if something involving money happens. Getting a television or film cut or something about to be on a project being torpedoed by an ungrateful former co-writer, or former business partner happens all the time.
When I moved to Nashville I noticed an interesting thing happening at number one parties when some writers would not have their picture taken together. Later I would find out that since it usually takes years for songs to get out there, that some falling out has caused the writers not to be able to stand each other, causing a lot of uncomfortable feelings all the way around. I also know of hit songs that brought in some money only to have it eaten away by legal fees when one writer sued the other writer for some percieved or imagined slight.
This is one of the reasons publishers and legitimat writers
don't bother with the entire copyright issue until something is released is part of things like this. Getting a song cut, released and becoming a success is like taking an elevator to the top of the Empire state building, standing against the rail, throwing a nickel over your shoulder and trying to hit a Dixie cup placed on the ground floor. Except you have a little better success with the Dixie cup.
So getting all caught up in legal issues on songs, which in most instances you end up writing others that replace those in the natural evolution of a songwriter's career. Most songs simply don't go anywhere. That is why you keep moving forward.
If you have songs that you feel very strong about and have registered them, do what you will on them, and move on. Once it has gone through all that process it is done. Not much you can do about it.

MAB

thanks guys. im sorry for the snippy tone earlier. im just disappointed. but i appreciate your imput.

Marc's exactly right there. A cowriter and I had a song which I had written, and here I'm being generous, 90%. He did a recording of it, had it printed up a few copies and didn't even mention my name on it. He was planning to release it with a large run of cds. When I insisted that my publishing info had to be on the cd, he actually said something to the effect that he'd only have to print my last name on it. This, by the way, came out of nowhere, I have no idea why he was doing this. So I opened a new publishing company and registered it with ASCAP...Mike Dunbar Music LOL, the guy had to print my full name on the cd.

So, rather than fight him any more than that, I just simply let it go and started writing more, and better, songs...and I stopped cowriting with the guy. That's pretty much what Marc is suggesting.

yep, I pretty much agree with Marc. You have many more - and likely better - songs in you now.

so then, if this person were to pitch one of the songs,and an artist wanted to record it, would it happen if i didnt sign off on it? in other words, what leverage do i have to prevent her from putting the song with someone i dont want to have it? im not talking about a major artist, im not stupid. but she has no discernment when it comes to opportunity. she got us into some real messes in the past with sharks. do i have any right to stop her from proceeding with a deal i think is inappropriate?

I would imagine any contract signed with an artist, publisher, or record company would require both your signatures.

Best, John

Yes, unless it has been commercially recorded before, no one can record the song without both writers' permission or the permission of a publisher who has been contracted with by both writers.

excellent. thats all i need to know then. Thanks to all of you!

absolutely.