JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Musician Message Forum http://www.humtoo.com/

Jason didn't answer my question T. Maybe you can answer it since it's obvious you're connected to humtoo in some way. Here it is again:

Hi Jason,

I'm just wondering what you have against non-exclusive agreements. The majority of music libraries are using it today.

I don't see where you'd have anything to lose as far as film and TV placements with such an agreement. And your members would feel more secure in entering into a non-exclusive agreement.

Best, John

Hi T,

Thank you for the additional information. My apologies to Jason, if in fact he feels that I was being hard nosed.

Mr. T or Jason,

I just read the contract.

I think if you do indeed pay an advance against royalties, that would balance out the exclusive agreement and the five year reversion clause. Though I think a three year reversion is more in line with most libraries.

I would consider this a "good faith" payment. I doubt any publisher would pay an advance unless the publisher was fairly certain the music would be placed.

John

No John,
I'm not associated with humtoo in any way. So, I can't answer your question on behalf of that organization. Only from my own perspective that a "non-exclusive" agreement isn't a publishing contract. Any publishing contract must require exclusive control because the publisher receive its funds from the PRO just like we do and there cannot be a fuzzy line between who owns what share and who doesn't.

Yes, an advance would be nice and 3 yrs would be excellent! (5 years is "fair".)

Steve,
I still think Jason's responses on this string were sincere. Had he gotten defensive or argumentative I'd have lost respect. I've only read all the "How To" section once and don't recall every detail but everything Jason told you is contained either within the terms of use or the publishing agreement. In other words, I'm not perceiving any falsehood on his part. Of course, I've no idea how Jason "feels" so maybe you don't "owe" him an apology. I can only tell you how I feet and it seemed to me you were being nit-picky and beating him up. Although I admire your passion defending musicians rights and appreciate your considerate response back to me.

Well...,
Is humtoo a "shark"? I don't know... I'm still researching... and found this forum string through a google search. So far, this is the only discussion I've found about it. At least that's says to me there isn't a lot of bad talk going around. Not yet, anyway... I'm not seeing anything unreasonable in the contract or terms of service. It's tougher than what we might hope for and a little less than ideal but my phone isn't ringing off the hook with better offers either. Does that mean my music is bad? Well... if so, who cares who owns the publishing rights?

I haven't decided if I'll place anything with them or not. I think that will depend more on the "project" than the publisher and what other potential there is for the song. I mean,,, What's the song doing now? What will it be doing in 5 yrs? If I think I have the perfect piece for a fit in the right project I'll probably risk pulling something out of my archives that would otherwise continue to collect dust. Will I give them what I perceive to be a top40 hit??? Probably not in the beginning but if they can take an old song previously rejected by others and make a profit of it... well... yes, I'd put more in their library.

The only drawback I really see right now is that if humtoo claims publishing rights to a song it might take away a "bargaining chip" for getting my work placed elsewhere. I mean, if a "Major" was interested in the same song it might be an incentive for them to sign me if the publishing rights were still available. Then again, even getting material heard by one of the majors is a daunting task. We all know the name of that tune. It's "who ya know" man! I hate that!

Anyway... I'm going to dig deeper into humtoo and see what more I can learn about it. I'm most interested in the "project makers". Who does Jason know, so to speak. Well... let's see if we can find out?

Thank you all for responding to my post. We here are among the family of creative genius. It's a pleasure making your acquaintance.

Greetings, T_Music:

Glad to have you aboard. Thanks for your input on this interesting thread. My version of "This Business of Music" (admittedly quite old) does not list a specified term in the copy of the SGA Exclusive Contract. Perhaps you have a newer version? Forgive me, I did not click on the link you provided since you are not a regular here... yet! I certainly hope you will continue to participate. I'll let Steve decide for himself if he thinks an apology is needed... LOL!

I would attempt to shorten any specified term longer than two years unless the outfit offering the contract could provide a real good reason for needing longer... and I would certainly want to see a reversion clause to my liking before I would sign on the dotted line. In this biz, just about everything is negotiable.

Once again, no argument intended, I'm simply looking for clarity and trying to make you feel welcome. Opinions, whether differing from mine or not, are always welcome.

Best,

Dave Rice

http://www.ShowCaseYourMusic.com/DaveRice

"Any publishing contract must require exclusive control because the publisher receive its funds from the PRO just like we do and there cannot be a fuzzy line between who owns what share and who doesn't"-T

That's why the publisher changes titles - to assure he/she receives royalties for their placements.

"non-exclusive" agreement isn't a publishing contract T

That's odd; I wonder what I've been signing all these years?

John

Oh, btw, welcome aboard T!

Best, John

The exclusive deals I've signed to date have been 2 years. However, I also feel that, given that things move very slowly in this industry, 5 years exclusive, with a good active library isn't a bad thing. I agree every opp needs to researched effectively. But, as a good friend of mine says... sign the tracks exclusively for 5 years, if the deal is fair... and get to work on writing more.

I've signed both, however I lean towards the non-exclusive more these days. Many of these libraries have thousands of tracks, some like DSM Producers have hundreds of thousands. Easy for your tracks to get buried in bulk.

However; I still sign exclusive agreements with the ones that have already placed my tracks. They have a proven record.

And yes, I still consider both agreements, if they show promise, or come with a "good faith" royalty advance.

Best, John

Greetings all... Thank you for the warm welcome.

Dave- The SGA contract hasn't changed in 30 years. It's still circa 1978! You can go to the guilds home page and find their link to the contract in the left navigation pane.

Greetings all... Thank you for the warm welcome.

Dave- The SGA contract hasn't changed in 30 years. It's still circa 1978! You can go to the guilds home page and find their link to the contract in the left navigation pane.

John- I must have a different definition of "non-exclusive". Do you mean "non-broadcast" license? Otherwise it would be self-publishing, wouldn't it? hmmm... I wonder if we're talking about the same thing or if my perception is flawed?

Hi Vikki- Online music libraries are totally new to me and this may be where my perceptions here are weak. I've always used the traditional methods of pitching tunes to publishers via snail-mail and the only "DEALS" I've gotten were "works for hire" but they paid pretty good.

I spent a few hours on humtoo and registered there but didn't uploaded any tracks. The site is very small. Less than 50 composers and less than 1000 uploaded tracks. Maybe a good ground floor opportunity? I only saw 2 "songs". The rest are instrumentals and most are short clips or samples. The clients seem to be independent film and TV producers. Nothing major that I could see. Maybe down the road for them? It did have a pretty good search engine though for finding specific styles, genre, instrumentation, mood, etc... The whole thing seems oriented to background music for video or animation. I only saw one project that sparked any interest in me but they want full orchestration and I don't have that capability at the moment. So...

Anyway... that's my 2 cents for today.

Jack

Online music libraries are totally new to me and this may be where my perceptions here are weak - T

Yes, that's probably why we didn't connect.

A film music library's publishing contracts can have an exclusive clause or a non-exclusive clause.

The exclusive clause gives the sole right to the publisher to permit advertisers, television, cables, radio, film, etc. to use the writer's tracks - with agreed upon compensation to its writers.

The only difference with a non-exclusive contract is that the writer doesn't give up ownership or the copyright of the master recording. The non-exclusive publisher will change titles of the writer's tracks, to ensure all royalties generated by their placements on TV, film, advertising, etc. will be funneled appropriately.

In a non-exclusive agreement, the writer still owns the right to the recordings, and can exploit his recordings as he/she sees fit. I have some tracks that are published by several music libraries (non-exclusively of course).

Bottom-line; both contracts are basically the same except for the exclusive/non-exclusive clause.

Well...

I've decided to be a guinea-pig and upload a song to humtoo. It's an old one that's been in my portfolio for 20 years but I think it's a good fit for one of the projects there... " A Mans Private Hell"...IF the filmmaker sees the same vision? If not... Well... humtoo will have publishing rights for the next 5 years... and who knows? Maybe they'll find a good home for it. It isn't accomplishing anything sitt'in in me 'ol gig bag:).

So... wish me luck... AND... I'll keep y'all posted...

Jack Anthony Jory
aka T Music Traveler:)