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Real Deal
by Brian Austin Whitney - 05/07/26 01:38 AM
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Flyte
by Gary E. Andrews - 05/06/26 05:36 PM
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Well, Ed is right, really. I'm just commenting on the odds, I guess. Who's most likely to die of natural causes, the 72-year-old or the 47-year-old. But when you factor in the way the world really works, it's probably always 50-50. Derek, I don't think most women will vote for Palin because she's a woman...it hasn't held true in the past. Mondale-Ferraro lost in a big way. I think most women will vote for someone who shares their political beliefs rather than similar body parts... 
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Edit: nevermind.
Last edited by scottandrew; 09/13/08 08:26 PM.
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and there's about 10 gazillion Catholic women and men who will vote for her because that is her stance on abortion. there's always atleast two ways to look at things... 
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Mark, I agree--but with a big "but."
I think the more Obama and the media brutalize her, the more the general public will regard her as a nice person, and not vote for her so much as vote against Those Other Guys. The strategy, if strategy there be, may backfire, in other words.
As Deep Throat said of Nixon's henchmen, "You have to remember these are not awfully bright guys."
Joe
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Moker: sure, but that's because they agree on the issue, not because they've got ovaries. There are a gazillion women on the other side too that aren't changing their minds just because Palin's a woman.
It looks like I was correct. Palin's not changing anyone's minds. Her nomination is solely to appeal to the people who think McCain was too centrist, and lure them off the fence.
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I just don't believe the majority of American women will vote for her simply because she is a woman. It will be for many other reasons, sure, and being a woman is a big, big plus...but we sell women short if we say they will vote for a uterus over a political position.
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Ok maybe my post has been taken the wrong way... I never intended to say it was solely based on body parts, more the fact that she is a working mother and a woman who has suceeded in many great ways... she's more than pleased her constituents in regards to being Alaska's Governer.. For a true look at what I'm trying to say look at this site.. Palin's appeal to women
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Hey Mark
Yes I agree whole heartedly, but that wasn't at all my point... As was mentioned about Ferraro... it's going to be dependent on way more than just the fact she's a female. However, I do believe with the other factors of her popularity that she has the potential to sway not only.. those on the fence, but even those outside her political base... though only time will tell for sure...
Derek
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Hey Scott
I totally disagree with this argument... and I'd truly like to see where your facts are coming from... As I don't for a minute believe Palin's only appeal is to those of a more conservative base..
She appeals to those who even differ with her and her "opinion" about abortion... just because she believes differently on that "one issue" doesn't mean she'll lose the support of women... So I think your argument holds little truth... and I for one wouldn't vote for her only to shift the ticket more to the right... I'm a moderate... and would vote for the libertarian cantidate if someone decent was put on the platform... So I think one has to look much depeer than her conservative right wing beliefs to understand her popularity
Derek
Last edited by Derek Hines; 09/11/08 08:28 PM.
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In fact Scott this IMO is her appeal to women in a nutshell She appeals to working women, women with children, women who juggle work and kids,” said Ravitch, a historian of education at New York University. “She shops at Wal-Mart and Costco, like them. She doesn't have an Ivy League education; neither does the average woman. Edit “But she has something else that has impressed women—and probably some men too. She has incredible spunk. Maybe courage. Most of us would have been beaten down by the heavy criticism directed at her and her family. Most of us would have had trouble standing up to that withering blast. She did it. She kept smiling. She even seemed triumphant,” And this Edit Oh and this “It would be presumptuous for a man to attribute particular reasoning to a group of women but my sense is that the election hinges on whether the Obama camp can return to an emphasis on issue and personality contrasts with McCain rather than Palin. that is from a supporter of Obama and Biden All I can see is to quote Astro from the Jetson
Last edited by Derek Hines; 09/11/08 08:47 PM.
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Eh, forget it.
You're wrong!
No, YOU'RE wrong!
etc.
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Yes Scott You're absolutely right, but one sounds like a generaly sincere thought and one sounds like scare tactics... I'll leave it up to you to decide which is which  Edit No truth be told I'm wrong Scott... though I am not sure who I am. Since Mark K. posted the photo of the other Derek I've been drooling out both sides of my mouth and babbling incohherently like an idiot Or a banjo player on a level stage  Derek
Last edited by Derek Hines; 09/11/08 11:12 PM.
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So I think one has to look much depeer than her conservative right wing beliefs to understand her popularity
Derek Or shallower She's popular because she isn't well known yet - The odds suggest that will change.... Maybe not before the election though.... Same as with any other politician - heck, a lot of people liked Cheney when he was first nominated for VP.... Scott
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Great Scott :O Two Scotts :O sheesh no fair  where is the other Derek  Derek
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where is the other Derek ![[Linked Image]](http://www.leninimports.com/bo_derek_gallery_main.jpg)
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Hmm Mark Well I uh yes that is definitly another Derek... hmmm well let's just say she's got a much nicer figure than me Derek Oh and is that an edited photo...? or did she really bounce around in something that revealing... that photo should be banned in all 50 states lol... Derek
Last edited by Derek Hines; 09/11/08 11:02 PM.
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If you look real close, you will notice smiley faces on Bo's boobies. I know I shouldn't really bring this up but my adrenaline's going since I just killed a snake that thought it could crawl across the driveway!
"Grits is one of those country-boy words that is both singular and plural-like deer, elk and sheep. I think the singular is appropriate when there's a modifier that makes it clear one is talking about something specific. Like, 'Grits are good for you, but these here grits is tasty.'"~~Joe Wrabek
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Thanks for spotting that, Tricia. I do not look closely at people's chests. That sort of thing can get a guy in trouble.
Joe
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It gets the girl in even more trouble. That's what I've been telling my daughters.
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My Father (66) and Grandmother (83) both died last month and both had causes of death that were NOT simply listed as "Natural Causes." Please talk from fact Derek, and not your best guess.
Brian
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@gmail.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney "It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney "Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
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Wouldn't it be just as likely for women to vote for a woman as it would for an african american to vote for an african american? If you say YES, then you can look at the numbers and make an assessment of one from the other. If you say NO, then you're making a case that one group is biased but the other isn't. Either way, it's a hornets nest to discuss.
Everyone votes on bias of some type. It might be race, it might be religion, it might be sex, it might be political dogma, it might be a wide array of other issues. But make no mistake, there's a BIAS that causes every non random vote. To suggest that any individual will vote in a specific way based on a specific characteristic is to make a bigoted assumption about that entire group. So be very careful what assumptions you make about anyone and where they will vote.
Brian
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@gmail.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney "It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney "Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
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Hey Brian Well you just made my point lol... What I was trying to say is... my dad who passed away at the age of 48 was given an autopsy...his cause of death was not ruled as natural... I'm not sure at which age they decide whether it's natural or unnatural... it's possible I've misunderstood the facts here and natural means they don't know why someone died? So if someone could please explain the difference I would be most appreciative... sorry Brian was using an educted guess that was lacking in education lol... I'll hush up before I add a third foot to my mouth lol... Derek
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Smoke 12 packs of cigarettes a day and die of lung cancer: unnatural causes.
Get ripped apart by 12 crazed, bloodthirsty baboons: natural causes.
It's perfectly simple.
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If you look real close, you will notice smiley faces on Bo's boobies. I know I shouldn't really bring this up but my adrenaline's going since I just killed a snake that thought it could crawl across the driveway! Tricia, Bo's boobies gave me a smiley face! Alan
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Or shredded by toast monsters ? Derek
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Father: Son, I found the "Hot for Teacher" Post on your computer again. Son: I only read it for the articles. Honest" Midnite If you look real close, you will notice smiley faces on Bo's boobies. I know I shouldn't really bring this up but my adrenaline's going since I just killed a snake that thought it could crawl across the driveway! Tricia, Bo's boobies gave me a smiley face! Alan
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Midnite...
I look at the pictures. Reading takes too long and gives me a headache! I like looking at the pictures!
Alan
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Electing a woman into the second highest office in the USA will by all means pave the way for future Female cantidates... So why wouldn't even the most left wing female voter vote for her? Derek
well Derek..... I couldn't disagree with you more. at least in my case. I am one of those very left wingers... (maybe not extreme left...) and Palin scares the scrap out of me. Early on in the primaries, I took a survey and my leaning toward Hillary and Obama were nearly identical. both candidates had a couple of issues that were slightly off from mine. and McCain was only slightly moreso. But Palin is so far right... yikes! It will help reassure some of those conservative republicans who were feeling left out.. But to say that even us liberal women would want her JUST because she's a woman? BULLC@#&!!!!
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Wouldn't it be just as likely for women to vote for a woman as it would for an african american to vote for an african american? If you say YES, then you can look at the numbers and make an assessment of one from the other. If you say NO, then you're making a case that one group is biased but the other isn't. Either way, it's a hornets nest to discuss.
I'd say they are different cases - for a very practical reason. My impression is that women are spread across the political spectrum but that african-americans are more weighted to the left. To me, it's not a stretch in this situation to think that african-americans are going to overwhelming vote for Obama but that women won't overwhelmingly vote for Palin. (EDIT - Freudian slip there - I meant a ticket with Palin on it ) So yes, one group will show a larger bias than the other. But based on issues, not race...... I know, I know, there are some african-american republicans (though you couldn't tell from their convention ) - I'm talking statistics here - not individuals. A more interesting assessment could be made if the republicans ran an african-american candidate..... Scott
Last edited by Scott Campbell; 09/12/08 02:39 PM.
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Hey there - Interesting discussion, as always. I honestly feel too much emphasis is put on EXPERIENCE. Yes, it's a good thing, but it's not everything. I think any intelligent candidate of good character (well, there goes 1/2 of our congress) that has the right support system in place, anything is possible. An inexperienced person may be naive but at the same time, they're a blank canvase with fewer agenda items than those veterans of Washington. As far as the abortion issue goes, regardless of any legislation relating thereto, abortions WON'T go away. There will always be abortions if someone wants one badly enough. Should they become illegal or unavailable, people will end up being relegated to 'back-alley" procedures, a very dangerous and often lethal option. This is the reality. Should limits be imposed? Perhaps. But complete denial, I don't think so. Just my two cents. I think this election will be a close one. Just be sure y'all do your homework and, most importantly, GO VOTE!! Hope I didn't ruffle too many feathers. TKT
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Hi Harriet Well I'm not trying to start anything just speaking an opinion...I understand that you don't feel that way... I didn't ever say all women would beat a path to her door.. All I said was that I think even people outside of her party base will... You can disagree all you want (and that's your right and to have your opinion), but the polls aren't lying and there are "Left Wing" women out there who do support her in my opinion, but then... it's only my opinion have a good day Derek
Last edited by Derek Hines; 09/12/08 04:15 PM.
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No TKT
apperently I am the resident feather ruffler...
Last edited by Derek Hines; 09/12/08 04:38 PM.
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Ok folks this has been a fun thread and I've enjoyed the banter, but for the sake of not entering into anymore heated discussions...and in the interest of goodwill... I am backing down a notch and backing out of this conversation before something backfires... Again I've enjoyed participating and I'll still read others comments, but I'm wise enough to know when to say I'm done and frankly I'm done  Derek
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Hey there -
I honestly feel too much emphasis is put on EXPERIENCE. Yes, it's a good thing, but it's not everything. I think any intelligent candidate of good character (well, there goes 1/2 of our congress) that has the right support system in place, anything is possible. An inexperienced person may be naive but at the same time, they're a blank canvase with fewer agenda items than those veterans of Washington.
TKT
I remember voting for Jimmy Carter for EXACTLY that reason..an outsider who wouldn't be beholden to all the special interests...and once he got elected...he couldn't get ANYTHING done...he was paralyzed and ended up being one of the worst presidents EVER
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Derek, I understand your decision. But just so you know, I don't think anyone is screaming mad here. This thread is most excellent as far as civility...trust me, I'm monitoring quite a few political discussions right now, and this one is by far the most cordial.
Dissent and disagreement is part of the democratic process. I think threads like this--sure, even on a music site--are very valuable to us. I love to hear how others view the election, and without real live conversation and debate with other citizens, just plain folks, we would be stuck with family, friends and the media.
So, whether you offer more comments or not, thanks for sharing your viewpoint anyway. I may disagree with some of it, but I really value it.
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...any intelligent candidate of good character (well, there goes 1/2 of our congress)... I like optimistic folks! Call me jaded, but my opinions: - If a politician is talking, he/she is lying.
- Most politicians are in it for personal power and $$.
- Nearly all politicians put the interest of their party or their re-election before the interests of The People.
- If you want to know the truth about what they do/say, follow the money.
I'm not really a negative person. No, really...I'm not! Edit -- We need more musicians in congress!
Last edited by Jeff Moser; 09/12/08 05:40 PM.
The man that hath no music in himself, Nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds,
...Let no such man be trusted.
--Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice
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We need more musicians in congress! We could use more on the radio, too.
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Remember Mark Twain: "The only native criminal class in America is Congress."
He also said "No man's property is safe when the Legislature's in session." I quote him a lot when the Oregon State Legislature's in session...
Joe
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I preferred Sarah Palin when she was in Monty Python. I keep waiting for her to remove her glasses and turn into Wonderwoman. Sadly with her ultra right wing policies and bloodthirsty pursuits that is unlikely. Still Wonderwoman was a babe. Pity undernead that lovely looking "Sarah" exterior lies a lethal predator.
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Herbie, I still think that Carter was probably one of the smartest presidents we have ever had. Unfortunately, he did not seem to be able to delegate authority and insisted on trying to do everything himself. That, coupled with an extremely hostile congress, resulted in an extemely weak presidency.
Big Jim, I couldn't come up with a suitable Pythonesque reply, but I did laugh out loud when I read your post.
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"I think any intelligent candidate of good character (well, there goes 1/2 of our congress)"
==============================================================
I believe in term limits. Congress should be limited to two terms...One in office and the second in prison.
Steve
I'm the only person here who is not unique.
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I do wonder what the US would be like if Congress got 4 years max and Senators got 1 term. Anyone have a theory on what would happen in that case? I am sure corruption would still exist and it might even get worse when the thieves realize they have to get all their criminal activity done in a short time and don't have to worry about re-election. On the other side, people might actually act on their conscience and do the right thing, even if it isn't popular since they don't need to rule by polls anymore.
Anyone else?
Brian
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@gmail.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney "It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney "Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
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From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Term_limits_in_the_United_StatesIn June 1776, the Continental Congress appointed a committee of thirteen to examine forms of government for the impending union of the states. Among the proposals was that from the State of Virginia, written by Thomas Jefferson, urging a limitation of tenure, "to prevent every danger which might arise to American freedom by continuing too long in office the members of the Continental Congress...."[1] The committee made recommendations, which as regards congressional term-limits were incorporated unchanged into the Articles of Confederation (1781-1789]). The fifth Article stated that "no person shall be capable of being a delegate [to the continental congress] for more than three years in any term of six years."[2]
In 1776, rotation experiments also took place at the state level. The Pennsylvania Constitution of 1776 set maximum service in the Pennsylvania General Assembly at "four years in seven."[3] Benjamin Franklin's influence is seen not only in that he chaired the constitutional convention which drafted the Pennsylvania constitution, but also because it included, virtually unchanged, Franklin's earlier proposals on executive rotation. Pennsylvania's plural executive was composed of twelve citizens elected for the term of three years, followed by a mandatory vacation of four years. Seems like the founders thought that term limits (or at least limiting consecutive years in office) were a pretty good idea. I have to think that term limits would reduce unnecessary spending and corruption because it would probably take a little while to establish the means to "fleece" society. Corruption would become a little "sloppier' and easier to uncover as folks rotated in and out. At least that my theory -- I am sure folks would find a way to be corrupt, but I think it would be tougher. Kevin
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,581 |
The original idea for the House of Representatives was that Joe the plumber would serve one or two terms and then go back home. Then Stan the carpenter would do the same and so on. Just common folks from the area districts. The House was not intended to be an aristocracy. That was supposed to be the Senate's place. Some of the founding Fathers wanted the Senate to be selected by the state legislators rather than by public vote. That could have led to lifetime appointments like the Supreme Court. I wish the Supreme Court and some other judges didn't have life time appointments. They are not accountable to anyone unless they do something almost heinous in which case they can be impeached. I wonder when it was that a Federal Judge was impeached. Has it ever happened? Legislating from the Judicial Bench is biggest political threat we have going today. They can do whatever the hell they want with no one to answer to except the Supreme Court and some on that high Court have been doing the same in the last 40 years or so. They are supposed to stick to interpreting the Constitution, not adding to or subtracting from it. Certain ones rule like they are Kings, not public servants who are supposed to be part of the checks and balances of Government.
I'm the only person here who is not unique.
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,412
Top 30 Poster
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Top 30 Poster
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,412 |
Good Morning Folks,
The U.S. House members are up for re-election every two years. One third of the U.S. Senate is up for election every two years for 6 year terms. The President every four years. So the people decide who should be not re-elected.
I do like two terms for a President but putting term limits for the House and Senate is considered a limit on free speech so it would probably be defeated in the Supreme Court if a law was passed. You can do a lot of good by writing your Congressman, sending letters to your Newspaper on pending issues if you want to comment. On occasion I have written the local paper on some issues. They have printed every one. So you do have a voice if you so decide. Now if I could just write a song.
Last edited by Ray E. Strode; 09/13/08 02:49 PM.
Ray E. Strode
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,554
Top 200 Poster
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Top 200 Poster
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,554 |
How could anyone construe term limits in Congress to a violation of free speech? That is something no one should accept, ever.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,764
Top 100 Poster
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Top 100 Poster
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,764 |
Just curious...And yeah, no one would be this cynical(I hope)...But wouldn't it be a hoot if McCain has thoroughly vetted Palin, and is using her to shore up his conservative base in order to get elected...But he knows that something(troopergate??) will soon force her to resign...At which point, she will have served the purpose of the election, and then he will be free to name a VP of his (real)choice...??
Something about Agnew having been a 1 term governor when Nixon chose him keeps naggin' at me.....But...Naahhh.....
Midnite
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,403
Top 40 Poster
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Top 40 Poster
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,403 |
Front page of the National Enquirer (which I saw in the checkout line at the Wal-Mart) was trumpeting an expose of Sarah Palin--her secret confession about her affair, her son's drug addiction, and her daughter's pregancy. (No, I didn't read it, even though the checkout line was long. I did wonder, though, how a confession could be secret if it's on the front page of a paper.)
Not a word, of course (and I hate to be saying "of course") about her ability to be vice-president--which, last I heard, is what we were supposedly electing her for.
I get the sinking feeling all this may backfire on its perpetrators, and you could well see McCain elected as a result of it. Only McCain is no spring chicken, and his health is probably not that good, and you could really end up with Sarah as President.
As Deep Throat said of Nixon's henchmen, "You have to keep in mind these are not very bright guys."
Joe
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"Stop the process I call 'waiting to live.' This is the worst type of procrastination, because there will always be another 'reason to wait' lurking ahead. Once you are in this rut, it is nearly impossible to get out of it. Instead, adopt a 'Live as you Go' mentality." -Brian Austin Whitney
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