JPF Home Page Forums Sarah Palin / I'm Hot for Teacher

Scott, that is attractively sick. Congratulations.

Joe

Interesting reading. What happened to the flat tax initiative? Probably be able to cut IRS expenses in half, saving a ton of money.

Looks like it won't make too much difference to me on the income tax side, but I haven't studied the small business proposals yet enough. In any case, it seems hard to justify asking the top 5% to pay even more if the numbers in the attached link are true: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/whopaysmost.htm or http://www.treasury.gov/press/releases/reports/factsheetwhopaysmostindividualincometaxes.update.pdf .

Of course on the other side of the fence, some folks view the data differently : http://www.askquestions.org/articles/taxes/

Kevin

Ha! That's a classic Scott.. you should jump on this fast and I bet you could get a version of this, along with the photo, out to TV and radio all around the country. I am totally serious about this...


Brian

Thank you Ed for sharing that information with me. Appreciate your taking the time. Found it interesting.

Thank you Brian for handling the "hammer" situation in a proactive way, and thank you for keeping that information on file. I know you have better things to do w/your time, but you do look out for your members and I appreciate it.

Best to both of you,
Lynn

So is anyone watching the speeches tonight by Lieberman and Thompson? Both have been very impressive.

Brian

Seemed elitist maybe?

Who really stands for the Constitution? All, (both sides), seems so contrived. Fake. But with that speech, elitist, which is worse.

Would have liked to have Ron Paul in the mix more the last year or so, (ALL the debates). He at least keeps ego and dogma out of politics.

Agree.

Yes,
They only speak the facts. Good speeches. I don't think Fred Thompson or Joe Leberman are elitests. Just good citizens that want whats right for the country.

Shouldn't it be what "the people" think is right? Ya know, "We, the People"?

If it all comes to down to what a few want, isn't that sort of like dictatorship, with a lot of sheep believing they have the best interest of the people in mind? Either party.

Just saying. "Maybe" things and speeches aren't what they first appear to be. It's politics after all. Be very skeptical of either "side". It's our duty of being American that calls for closer looks into everything. And action if wanted by the masses. That's been set up in the Constitution, and is not being Anti American, as many are called that, that protest the suit's words and actions.

Just be wary of motives, money, power and bullying. They are not rock stars!

John

Sorry John
I can't see how you could've watched those two speak...and call them elitists ! ! Thompson mostly told about McCain's experience in Vietnam...I learned from what he said, I didn't know the specifics of McCain's ordeal there...I can't BELIEVE that they were going to let him go, and he didn't go...because another guy had been there longer (he suffered greatly for THREE MORE YEARS after that) ! ! To me, that IS character of the HIGHEST order...Lieberman, in his understated style, was quiet and just stated the facts the way that HE sees them. I thought almost NONE of it was personal, in fact, he made the GOP clap...for BILL CLINTON and the bi-partisan way he made the nation come together...Let's see ... hmmm....

Definitions of elitist:
noun: someone who believes in rule by an elite group

The entire THEME of the night was country first...Lieberman spoke to the group as a DEMOCRAT BECAUSE of that theme. It was mostly all about McCain's character. Were we watching the same thing?

The sheep, money, power and all your points go to BOTH parties, why did you feel this was elitism? Did you feel that way about the Dems too?

Do I think Lieberman was just stating the facts as he sees them? Not really...especially when he spoke of Obama never reaching across the aisles, conveniently forgetting his initiatives "with Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Indiana, to keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of terrorists and with Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Oklahoma, on the government budget." Omissions like that don't come from plain talk, they come from decisive political spin. Lieberman said what he said for personal gain.

Why would I think that? Because of liberal sour grapes? No, because it's a new turnabout in position from Lieberman and because he clearly has a political motive for doing so. If McCain gets elected, expect Lieberman to enjoy a Cabinet position. If Obama gets elected, expect Lieberman to fend for himself. This was the case before the speeches, back when Lieberman was actively looking to be on the ticket with McCain.

He also said this:

“I’m not going to go to that convention — the Republican convention — and spend my time attacking Barack Obama.”

Here's something else he once said:

“As far as I’m concerned [Barack Obama] is a ‘Baruch,’ which means a blessing. He is a blessing to the United States Senate, to America, and to our shared hopes for better, safer tomorrows for all our families. The gifts that God has given to Barack Obama are as enormous as his future is unlimited. As his mentor, as his colleague, as his friend, I look forward to helping him reach to the stars and realize not just the dreams he has for himself, but the dreams we all have for him and our blessed country.”

Of course, that was back when Obama was backing up Lieberman, at a time when he appeared to be losing his career in 2006. Back then, Obama helped Lieberman regain some credibility with his own party.

This is from a description of a Connecticut fundraiser that was going South on Joe:

"I know that some in the party have differences with Joe," Senator Obama said, all but silencing the crowd. "I'm going to go ahead and say it. It's the elephant in the room. And Joe and I don't agree on everything. But what I know is, Joe Lieberman's a man with a good heart, with a keen intellect, who cares about the working families of America."

Then, with applause beginning to build, he finished the thought: "I am absolutely certain that Connecticut's going to have the good sense to send Joe Lieberman back to the United States Senate." That time, people cheered loudly.

But now, of course, Lieberman has been fighting his own demise within his party, and he now sees a shot at a political renewal if he displays loyalty to McCain. So, yeah, sure, he is simply speaking his mind. But which part of his mind he will speak tomorrow is anybody's guess.

I have decided I will no longer listen to the spin doctors. If they start talking about Obama or McCain, Pro or Con, I will turn them off or tune them out,
If I want the real story about their past performance as a senator I will go here

For Obama I will go here
http://www.votesmart.org/bio.php?can_id=9490

For McCain I will go here
http://www.votesmart.org/bio.php?can_id=53270

I think these are the real facts.

I am surprised at the number of no votes. It's a wonder they ever get anything done.

Hi Mark
I think that Lieberman STILL thinks that Obama has a bright future. I think that possibility is there, too ! ! I just think that RIGHT NOW...he just is too young and too green...Obama, IMHO, should've stayed right where he was, worked hard, and made a difference for Illinois, while learning for a good 8-12 years. Instead, he started running for president INSTANTLY. The fact that he voted HERE instead of yea or nay for SO many votes, in order to leave NO record behind REALLY bothers me and smacks of deviousness.

Anyone who votes on every bill is devious -- it has to be impossible to understand that much stuff coming your way. "Here" is probably the best vote a lot of times.

Kevin

Good points Herbie, about my take on it all. I don't feel as sure about it now as I did, so maybe I was looking too hard to find hidden attitudes of what I have come to think of Pubs, mainly, as being know it all's, and who seem to think they have God on their side ONLY.

My fault. Been wrong before, so why stop now?!

Thanks for clearing some things up that I obviously missed.

I speak about open minds, and I should do that more often.

Yes, I think both sides are just about the same in ways of being politicians. Maybe Palin will change my mind. I will look into her record more, and get a feeling for her wants and wishes tonight,,,with an open mind.

I can't thank you enough for calling me on my knee jerk reaction in your very respectful way.

Respectfully back to you,

John

John- I love you too man...I can't wait to hear her speech tonight.

Oh and Kevin---great point ! ! how could anyone digest that much info? I really never thought about it ! !

I can't wait to hear how she, as a reformer, is now against earmarks after begging for them for her state.

And, please tell us about the bridge to nowhere.

I want her to tell us why she was in favor of censoring books.

And I wonder where she stands to profit when the GOP opens up her pipeline?

Good stuff.


Has she researched the responsibilities of the VP yet?

My favorite speech so far is Huckabee's. Wow!! Back to the convention.......

I am now tieing Huckabee's speech w/Guiliani's and topping it w/Sarah's! I gotta tell you, tonite I'm proud to be a Republican!!!!!

All I can say about Palin's performance tonight is...

WOW...

and so far, even from the left (not the left wing psycho blogs) even they are saying "WOW..."

This race is definitely much closer than anyone would have thought going forward. I kind of wish we had 4 governors running at the top of both parties. They are FAR more suited to be President in my opinion anyway. Perhaps in the next election, depending on wins and loses, we might see Even Bayh and Sarah Palin going head to head. That would be a good match up.

Brian

I look at it as "they" are Republicans or Democrats. And I'm an American.

Is that wrong? Keeps me at least looking both ways, like what we were told when crossing "one" street.

Good to feel proud. Just all sides may be trying to do what they hope will get them good jobs. Once the election is over, isn't it all back to the same old politics of many members asking for favors and helping each other out? Congress too. The high office can only do so much. Lots of things they are told to do and where to be.

Just maybe not loose site on the longrun activities of politicians. These speeches are good for feelings right now, in other words.

Sarah sure has a backbone to go along with the rest of her package, to put up with the media assault and carry herself with the poise she did tonight, well let's just say i think most of her party is behind her and a whole lotta Hillary huggers are leanin' her way...should be interesting...

As for voting in general...take a look at the following quotes (and the people who said them):

Thomas Jefferson: "An elective despotism was not the government we fought for.”

James Madison: “Democracy was the right of the people to choose their own tyrants.”

Benjamin Franklin: “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.”

Benjamin Franklin: “When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.”

and finally:

Ron Paul: "The Founding Fathers were concerned with liberty, not democracy."

A lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.

In the end, the message was: what America is doing right now is the right thing. Let's continue to liberate Iraq, let's go all out for more oil (because that will help the little guy too, somehow), let's call today's economy the change we're looking for, and let's make government smaller by electing a politician.

I am an American first but I am also a registered Republican. I don't agree w/everything within the Republican party but I do believe it's platform resembles more closely my personal convictions and ideals. A party cannot save this country nor can one or two individuals. I am a realist and I am grounded in that respect. But as far as this election and this ticket at this specific time in history, I am very hopeful (but still praying of course) that John and Sarah will be the two great leaders we need and that I believe them to be!!!

Some quotes I particularly like:

America is great because America is good. When America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great - Alexis de Tocqueville

It is better to be divided in truth than to be united in error -?

Evil flourishes when good men do nothing - Edmund Burke

The Palin speech was filled with so much nonsense. Unbelievable.



Of course, which is why McCain elects not to give them tax breaks as large as those Obama is proposing (while simultaneously forking over tons of cash to those who DON'T need it.)



Yet McCain stands to simply keep things the way they are, considering how much he agrees with Bush, while Palin is about as conservative as conservative gets. So much for challenging the status quo.



Really? This is total BS.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008154532_webpalin02m.html

She requested more earmarks per person than any other state. Nearly $200 million. A flat out lie, on her part.



I couldn't help but laugh out loud here. If you look at any third-party analysis of the McCain energy plan (backed 100% by Palin), the effects of offshore drilling would not be seen for THIRTY YEARS. That is not a typo. Thirty, (30) years before the effects on supply and demand are even marginally noticeable.



I guess she was too busy to read Obama's ten-year alternative energy proposal? It's a hell of a lot more direct and forward-thinking than an offshore drilling plan which won't have any effect for decades.



A fascinating, but false analysis of Obama. Factually speaking, McCain's propositions would cost the government MORE money than Obama's, putting the country into even more debt and further increasing our reliance on other countries.



False, false, false. Obama's plan cuts taxes for nearly everybody except the highest tax brackets. His plan also cuts taxes for small businesses, so her sob story about her sister doesn't fly, at all. He also is planning to REDUCE the "death tax" (estate tax), not that it effects more than a tiny, tiny fraction of all Americans anyway.

http://factcheck.org/ for more information. Specifically:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/a_new_stitch_in_a_bad_pattern.html

Short version: on average, McCain's cuts will give LESS to the average, hard-working American than Obama's. GO MCCAIN WOO! Give that money back to the rich!

So bravo Sarah Palin, for a speech filled with misinformation and outright lies and falsehoods. I hope everybody here is smart enough to check their facts before they get too swept up in the emotion.

She was vapid and childish.

Not ONE thing she said she would help improve the nation.

Her third grade teasing is kinda cute. Maybe she could teach her daughter to use a condom.

I for one, feel this woman is possibly a bigger vacuum than the current president.

Good luck with that.

C'mon, guys. We have a party that nominated a Preidential candidate with very little experience complaining about the other side's vice-presidential candidate having very little experience. Obviously experience was not considered a desirable qualification by either side. (And yes, if the current President is an indication, it hasn't been a qualification for some time.) Y'all will get what you said you were asking for.

My own for-what-it's-worth political quote: "Pecunia non olet." (Money does not stink.) --Marcus Tullius Cicero

joe

Joe

Rudy had 'em rockin' too...

Here's a fun take on what we need for a president...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/02/jillette.presidency/index.html

"You know what, Mary? You've got spunk."
"Why, thank you Mr. Grant."
"I hate spunk."

Midnite

McCain is as far away from Bush as any Republican that could have gotten nominated this year. I realize it's the Democratic goal/strategy to scream at the top of their lungs non stop that McCain and Bush are the same, but it's a pretty hollow claim.

The Republicans in office right now have acted like traditional liberals when it comes to increasing government and spending. It's been obscene the amount they've done both. If Obama is going to raise taxes, spend more money and grow government, it seems to me that HE is far more like the Bush administration than what McCain is. I think that's actually one reason I really don't like Bush or Obama. Perhaps McCain will ALSO grow government and raise taxes and spend more money as well. If so, there's no good candidate to vote for.

Regardless of her ultra conservative viewpoint, Sarah Palin is the type of person we need in office. She lives a real life and isn't just a pampered Washington Senator. All 3 of the Senators in this race have been far outside of mainstream America. I wish the Democrats had run some REAL people as well. Enough with the Ivy League Graduates (like Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. and OBama and Clinton and Kennedy) Reagan went to a small college and I think it grounded him in a different way than these pampered elitist Ivy League types. Even Nixon was offered admission to Harvard and Yale but turned them down due to money issues. We need some real people who have lived real lives running the country for a while. Whether Palin gets elected or not, I hope this is a harbinger of change and some more women and more normal folks can take our country back from the elitists of both parties.

Brian

I just watched Palin's speech and I thought it was very well done. Maybe some of the facts were presented in interesting fashion (the tax plans, for instance), but nonetheless the speech was filled with the things needed to energize the faithful at the convention. I thought the introduction of herself and family were excellent and her portrayal of McCain as an honorable man really hit home on the "Defense" part of McCain's appeal.

This is going to be a very good and close election (I think). I hope it doesn't split our country even further apart. However, looking at the comments on JPF, I don't hold out much hope for a united America after the election.

I still haven't watched the Clinton, Biden and Obama speeches yet, but I'll get around to those soon.

Kevin

The only change Palin will bring to the White House is what's in her purse.

Who am I?:

"From my position as an unbiased arbiter, who is still on the fence and so, truly in a position the see things rationally, it's obvious that the best thing for this country is another Republican in the White House."

It sounds like you're an independent who is supporting a republican. And if you came to the conclusion that a Democrat should be in the white house, you'd be the opposite. So what is your point?

As someone who didn't vote for Bush or Clinton or the Bush before that, I consider myself pretty independent and I have a voting record of being so (which I wonder if others here who claim to be open minded can say the same?). Right now Palin is a huge breath of fresh air in the running. Bob Barr isn't a good Libertarian... or I might consider that party this year (I helped start that party in Indiana). The Green Party candidate is an idiot and there's no chance of supporting her. She's by far the worst of all the Presidential candidates running. Nader has been nearly silent this election, so he's not much of an option unless he steps up big very soon. That really leaves us with either Obama or McCain. If someone says they are going one way or the other, they'll be attacked by the opposing party as being biased. Is that what you're getting at Richard?

Brian

Thanks, guys

Nah, this was Herbie's idea and Bill's inspiration. And it pales in comparison to what Joe could do with it

Just havin' some fun at lunchtime....

Glad you got a chuckle out of it though.

Scott

Well,
It appears we have the usual posts about Sarah Palin. The Good, The Bad, The Ugly. She sure is a spunky young lady. The Democrat I would have liked to have seen on the top of the ticket didn't even run. No doubt Obama is a good person but maybe not quite enough experence to be President.

If McCain gets elected there will be about the same as the last 8 to 16 years. You can't just stop everything cold. It's like turning around a Battleship. It takes a lot of room.

It is time the States started taking back the Social Programs and adminstering them. If you don't like what has been happening in Washington for the last 40 plus years just remember the people voted for it. And left our children holding the bag.

I have been fighting against bigger government all my life. I have failed. I now leave it to you. Will you tell people to take responsibility for their lives or will you keep the government in charge?

One of the bits of experience that people don't seem to give Obama credit for is the experience of getting the nomination. Particularly when he was up against such a highly favored front-runner. To me, this trumps an awful lot of experience in office.

I recommend reading the Rolling Stone article about how he pulled this off - it required new approaches and a trust in people - two of the things I would like to see in a President.

McCain did the same thing - in a different way. By talking straight. Now, unfortunately, he seems to be kissing up to the party faithful. He has to, of course, it is the Republican Convention after all. I only hope he returns to his old self soon.

The Obama-McCain debates will be very important, imo....

I've missed the early speeches in the convention. I did catch Rudy's and Sarah's last night. I guess they too did what they had to do. Wasn't impressive to me though - too much stone-throwing and distortions and too little on new ideas. Andrew called out many of the things that bothered me about Palin's speech.

To some extent, they are probably forced into this posture by being members of the party that holds an unpopular Presidency.

Once these conventions are over and both parties start looking back to the center again, I hope the focus moves to issues....

Scott

Rockin' good show last night!
Romney was an excellent speaker! So was Huckaby and Rudy brought the house down. Sarah was unbelievably strong for one so new to national politics. I couldn't help but laugh when Keith Olbermann would throw out a snide remark or two between speakers on MSNBC. He gushed over the Dems party last week.

Well,
Hillary may have gotten the nomination but she had too much baggage. Anyone remember Travel Gate? She basically sicked the FBI on the poor hapless people that were there.

That only left the other candidates, all who were weak at best. Of course poor candidates have been elected before, like Bill Clinton.

Obama, like Bill Clinton is the comsumate politician. Thinking he is Gods Gift to America. Why people keep buying this "Pig in a Poke" sure puzzles me. Maybe Bill Clinton is right and people aren't smart enough to know how to spend their money and he should manage it for them. Do you agree?

A thought about belief to everyone:

Starting with Constantine, "Belief" was born out of fear from being killed for not believing in what he said. People later began to believe more and more of the things told by leaders, to now, not from fear of being killed, but from habit of thinking believing makes things so. (Belief of his initial fear tactics passed down from generation to generation).

I'm just saying belief is a powerful state of mind, that sometimes has a way of keeping us from exploring and excepting all factors, (to look at one side in one light, and the other in a darker one). Belief can be emotional driven, which will have us convinced that our best interest is in other's words and actions. May or may not be the case, is my point.

Religion and politics are based on belief. Just be careful as what is to be believed. Even so called facts may not be the real facts. They may never be able to be known actually. That's when belief can take over. Just be suspicious when people want to be in power. It's our duty as free Americans, (and anyone really), to question everything, and not just believe things to be so.

A vote should be with doubt, (with beforehand carefully examining all we knowoo at the time, in an open minded way), for we don't really know the behind the scenes motives and ways of the governments as they really are. We only sometimes believe we know!

I don't understand the tears and cheers for things just said. Maybe it's the dramtics of having one person stand up there and speak to many who are just looking to accept anything in front of them. (The crowd aspect of how people respond, like in sports or at concerts). Put the person in a room playing to a 10th percentage filled room and see the difference in reactions.

We were cautioned about all this by some of the founder fathers, who saw first hand what could come of power.

"I don't believe in Beatles. I just believe in me, Yoko and me, and that's reality" (John Lennon). Wise words to not get caught up in public hysteria, to not buy into all the hype.

John

Scott,

I am all for people making arguments for either candidate... but please.. saying he's qualified to be President because he is RUNNING for President may be the biggest stretch I've ever heard from either party.. it rivals the "weapons of mass destruction" argument Bush used. And I am not joking. I've been researching Obama's background all morning to learn more about what he has or hasn't done. His background is far thinner than I ever imagined. I keep thinking "he HAS to have done more than this with that Harvard degree...." but alas he's a pretty empty suit when it comes to experience. Certianly Biden has been around and McCain is by the far the most experienced (and I base that on his Pre-Senate military experience in addition to the Senate). Palin has had good experience, but it's hardly valid to say she's ready to be president right now either. But directly compared side by side with Obama, she's got WAY more experience in office and in real life.

The plot thickens... I really don't know who is going to get elected.. but I definitely want someone who has done more than hire a campaign chairman who actually RUNS the campaign... not the candidate.

Brian

Hey Brian:

Yeah, I thought that remark of mine would be controversial...

My logic is this - Presidents have to be problem solvers.

One could look at receiving his or her party's nomination as a problem. OK - the problem is that I want to get the nomination. Now how do I solve it.

My point is that that is a much bigger problem than anything that Sarah Palin has solved in her executive experience. As well, McCains solution to getting the nomination is much bigger than any problem solution he has come up with (my opinion) in all his years in the senate.

So yes, I believe that receiving your party's nomination has shown that you can tackle not just a big but a huge problem. I believe there is no job on earth that can prepare someone for the presidency - but I think winning your party's nomination comes as close as almost anything else.

Could be bunk - feels reasonable to me though. I'll see how feels to me a few months from now.....

Scott

This is like hearing two good lawyers in court. One side sounds like that's the way,,,,,,then the other lawyer speaks, and makes the facts lean in his direction!

My neck is getting sore from going Left to Right and back and forth! Where's a Middle?! Oh yeah, Indies not allowed except for this site! Ha!

Enjoying the posts!
Lots I don't know. Lots I think I know. Tough call. How about a write-in for Ron Paul or similar?
John

We're all raisin' McCain
all across the USA
you can get on the train
or get out the way
cos we're all raisin' McCain

John Rich-country music star
(printed for educational purposes- example of a great chorus)

Once again, NO ONE is more even in his posts and makes more sense than Brian ! ! I've said it before and I'll say it again....BRIAN AUSTIN WHITNEY For President ! ! ! Mike Dunbar for VP ! ! ! Let's turn business as usual on it's ear ! !

"All of the Candidates say they're Fighting For America..but only John McCain actually HAS"...(Or words to that effect)...

Lordy did I ever enjoy hearing Sarah Palin gettin' her licks in last night. She nailled The Media..Washington-as-Usual..& I imagine Obama's sittin' on a Rubber Doughnut today...

This Election's gettin' More Fun by the day. Palin's Kids are as cute as Obama's...&..she's gonna be an advocate for Down's Syndrome & Diabled Kids..if-elected. What's not to like?

& I think her "Pit Bull...Lipstick" Joke was a fair description of what John McCain wanted in a Running Mate. The "Old Guy" isn't the least bit Dumb, & Palin just proved it in spades.

Nice Job, Folks. Now start pumpin' Cheap Oil & DON'T raise Taxes & Get us Outta Iran (With Honor) & you'll get RE-Elected, too..assumin' I still have a House & a Job.

Big Hugs,
Stan

Shouldn't Mike "Talk to the foot" Dunbar be press secretary?

Joe