JPF Home Page Forums Lyric and MP3 Feedback MP3 Feedback Forum Man how these walls cry Glynda Duncan/ Derek Hines (full version)

Hi all...

This is a rough worktape work in progress... This isn't the finished song so what we need is ideas if the melody phrasing and tone are working... this is my first attempt on this song... and we hope to get it finished enough to demo.... So please pull no punches...

Update.. this is the full version, certainly not the last though... I know it's gonna need some more trimming lyricly... Thanks for all who've helped so far... I'll keep working on it...

Man how these walls cry

Spoken: (In a shaky bass driver voice)
Through the years, I've seen many things
Some of which I wish I had not seen
I've seen men come and go
Some go home and some go
Well, you know.

Spoken: (clear voice more mid range driven)
It's a shame it took this
to bring me to my knees.

(sung)
1st Verse
It don’t matter who you are
The roughest, toughest, meanest of men
With all kinds of tattoos
There will come a day, that you too
Will be forced to bend
You know when something’s going down
There's an icy, Wicked chill in the air
and it's thicker than ice
You’ better think twice
Before you show that you’re scared

Pre chorus
it’s seeping through the walls like fingers reaching out for you
stops you in your tracks, afraid to breathe or even move.

Chorus
No one makes a sound
As evil floats around
but, at night
Man, you should see
How these walls cry.

2nd Verse
My Mamma revered the Lord
Said son you’d better be good
Or You’ll go straight to hell;
Well it feels like I am, in this cell
Mamma did what she could
Sometimes; it feels these walls closing in
At Times I swear I here them talkn’
Pacing the floors like a trapped rat
Stuck and can’t find my way back
Spent the last 8 hours walkin’

Pre chorus
When my mamma cried for me I laughed right in her face
Now the wisdom I ignored from her has put me in this place

Chorus
No one makes a sound
As evil floats around
but, at night
Man, you should see
How these walls cry.

Bridge
If I could get out for just one day
You know just what I'd do
I'd get down on my knees
and kiss that woman’s feet.
Tell her I was such a fool

3rd Verse
It doesn't matter who they are
The roughest, toughest meanest men
With all kinds of tattoos
There will come a day that you too
Will be forced to bend
I've seen a man kill another man
just for sitting on his bed
Life means nothin’ behind these bars
Nothin’ like what’s portrayed by movie stars
Blink once wrong and your dead

Pre chorus
yeah, during the day, they all act so tough screaming, cussin’ and fightin’
At night the damned lie stiff as a board like they been struck by lightnin’

Chorus
No one makes a sound
As evil floats around
but, at night
Man, you should see
How these walls cry.

Tag
(spoken in shaky bass driven voice)
I'll be back later tonight Lord,
and we'll pick up where I left off.

Copyright August 11th 2008 Glynda Duncan/Derek Hines BMI

Man how these walls cry

Hey Derek:

I think the music you've put to this is great - really delivers the atmosphere promised by the lyric. Phrasing seemed pretty good to me too - maybe just a couple of lines could be given minor rewording to make them flow a little better. Like the lines:

There will come a day, that you too
Will be forced to bend

But it feels really close to me.....

There are some powerful images and ideas in the lyric. I think this can be something powerful.

I'm not sure about the hook though - I didn't see anything in the rest of the lyric that suggests why it would be effective to switch the viewpoint to an inanimate object at that point.

If the hook was as powerful as the rest of the lyric, well look out!

Just one opinion - might be I'm missing something....See what others say....

Nice work, so far. Would've liked to hear the whole thing

Scott

Hey Scott!

Thanks for stopping in...

I agree with the comment on that line... it's a lot of syllables to fit into such a small area... I also have had some questions about the hook... I'll talk with Glynda about it and see how she feels. Thanks again for the visit and the suggestions.
Derek

Good strong lyric, cleverly done, the tag is an especially nice
touch, the phrasing is pretty near there, a few more run throughs
might tighten it up a little more, I like the melody but the
chorus and verses sound a bit similar, more instrumentation
may help define the differences.

Going by where it cut off it is rather long, it took around two
minutes to get to the chorus, I have no problem with that in
fact I would liked to have heard more but you know if you want
to go more with the mainstream you got to whittle it down,
as a work in progress it's good, could end up being very very
good.

Tony.

Back tomorrow to check it out, I'm off to bed now, I have been really tired lately.

See you both tomorrow okay.

Your Aussie friend always

Michele

Yes Tony A

It certainly is going to be kinda long, but ya know... I think it's possible to pare it down... , but I'm not sure what to cut lol.. I'm certain I can find a way though.. Yes the melody definitly needs to be pegged down... It was pretty much my first run through.... so I'm sure I can nail it once I get all the changes figured out and it's closer to finish.
Derek

Good morning Derek

My suggestions would be, see how it would go, by speeding it up a little, that can certainly change the length of your song. Experiment with it, try different melodies, if that don't work, yes shorten off your lyrics.

Golly gosh, I hope I'm explaining it well enough, I'm not very good with input. Keep working on it hah, and goodluck, I know you can do it.

Your Aussie friend
Michele

Hi Michele

Yes you came across really clearly... I decided to speed it up a little... and I trimmed some lyrics, but for the final cut I'll certainly probably cut some more, as some of it still sound rushed... got it under 6 mins so that's pretty good... a little change here and there might get it to 5 even... which would be pretty darn good... Thanks again for the visit and expect the new one up by the time you check in next.. Hugs to you my favoritr Aussie friend and sweet dream whenever ya sleep
Derek

bump

I was just listening to this one. I really like the opening mood and the music at the intros. I read where it goes on for 6 minutes, so I didn't get to the end (sorry!) The beat seemed to waver during the first verse where the "click" didn't seem to match everything around it.

Another good collab from you and the recording seems to be better on this one.

Kevin

Derek & Glynda....

Get it in the 4 minute mark .....No reason for this to be 5 plus.....Sorry guys...condense to 2 verses.......

You should be able to say ALL you need to say in 2 verses, a pre-chorus, chorus and a bridge........

IMO....It is a huge mistake to use 3 verses....(someone mentioned they didn't play it to the end when they found out the time.....it's indicative of what many people may feel) Say what you need to say in 2 verses and get the heck out....

ESPECIALLY since you use the spoken word....CAROLINE SHOWED YOU A WAY TO TRIM INTRO.....so yes ....trim the spoken word......

Write or Re-write your best 2 verses and bring it home......

You asked me Glynda ...so I'm tellin ya

Alright Caroline!! yea!

I think ya saved us... got us under the four minute mark and kept all lyrical integrity in the process! Thanks we owe ya one! I'm on my work week now... so I'm not sure I'll get back to recording it before monday, but then I might just find some time somewhere.. Thanks for the brutal honesty... I like the changes I'm not entirely certain of the condensing of the spoken part, but you're right it certainly still retains the integrity of the lyric. Thanks again for the help and I think this is gonna work really well!
Derek

Hey Steve

Great ideas all of them... I was oringaly thinking of this in the folk category and figured if it ran a little long that'd be alright... but then I spose this one could be pitched condensed and still be maintained with the rest of the lyric.. in case we ever did decide to make it a folk song...

Thanks so much for the brutal honesty... I'll get going on the rewrite... and Lord willing we'll have music by monday!
Derek

Hey Kevin!

Sorry I missed this bro!

No need to apologize it certainly is a long song and I understand why that would be hard to wait on... specially considering you have at least as busy a life as I do..

Good point on the offbeat... it seems I'm still not perfect in my timing.. getting better, but not perfect... I think I got off somewhere in the middle and didn't get back on till ofter the end... I'll certainly be redoing this one... I hope to slow the tempo a tad and still bring it in under 4:00 or at least only a little over.. thanks for all your wonderful suggestions!
Derek

Derek: At first I heard the music and I wasn't sure. It didn't pull me in at first, so knowing how good your stuff can be, I kept listening and I guess after the intro parts which seemed pretty long, I got it!

And then I felt the atmosphere of the music and that was it. I keept hearing some low distorted sustain in the background. Don't know if that was what you intended but it worked for me.

Boy this feels just rainy foggy gloomy depressing but compelling some how.

Maybe the lyrics can be tightened up a bit as most initial versions of lyrics can, but I am not sure I would mess with the music alot. Although I do realize that this is a demo.

May you could punch up the sound and presence, but ever so slightly or you may lose the feeling.

Love the gloom and doom!

Could be a movie in this one

Paul

Derek/Glynda:

Here is a lyric change suggestion:

Spoken: (In a shaky bass driver voice)
Through the years, I've seen many things
Some of which I wish I had not seen
I've seen men come and go ,Some go home
and Some Disappear like dreams

I too like the music. The combination of the spoken voice and music works well. I think it would work better but the singing vocals are off pitch.

Tom

Dear Derek and Glynda...

I agree with Steve...on this... I gave some suggestions..over on the lyrics board... I still think it has a couple of themes going on in this... (sweep or keep .... )

It IS A POWERFUL ...lyrical subject...and you, Derek.., have picked up an equally powerful...tone of music...to go with it!!! Definitely on the right track.

The first poetry/lyric I wrote...had 10 verses....(this isn't near that long ) and is more powerful than what I wrote...
but dern....if I could see....that it needed.. absolutely needed
condensed...to quite awhile later ......

I still think there's enough material in original lyric over on board 3 for two songs...and would easily (for you two good lyricists) to have
song # 1 ...and a follow up song....# 2,,,you both have done
some condensing since then...BUT................

If you stay with this... I'd suggest some serious trimming...
and to follow up on Scott's thoughts....would it help
to have it... EVEN the walls cry...? ...i don't know if that
pulls it more together or not....

To condense this...I know you know this....but none of us remember to do it all the time.... Point and lead to the chorus ..with your other lines...

Very best to you both on an incredibly powerful start
Kaley

Hey Paul

Yes I know the intro is rather long.. which can be a deathnil for any song going for radio play, but I was trying to keep a sense of story telling in the song... Now some others have given some great ideas for condensing, and I really like them.. I don't want to lose too much of the story, but I guess the last verse doesn't really add much... I liked the original bridge, but I'll see maybe it would be better to change it.. At any rate I'm glad you liked the music and overall feel.. you got exactly the feel I was going for.. so I am glad that came across. Some of that underlying distorted sustain was intended, but I think I didn't pan it right cause it sounds muddied... either that or the bass is covering it..

Thanks again for checking in and weighing in with your suggestions.. I'll be taking all this input and reworking the song accordingly...
Derek

Hey Paul

Nice changes and I'll definitly keep them in consideration going forward... Gotta get my new microphone and equipment and see if I can take this one over the top!
Derek

Hey Tom

Glad ya liked the music... My wife really liked the spoken pieces as well... Yes I know the singing it pitchy in some places it's still in the rough state... need to sing it through a few more time before it get all the notes lined up just right... That and a little pitchy keeps that natural feel going
Derek

Hey Kaley

Yup you picked up on the heart of what needs fixing. The song it self as a full spoken word piece would be awesome in some ways, but for a song that appeals to many It will need some condensing... (thanks to Kevin E for pointing that out to me)... I don't want people to get bored with the song before it's fully done. As far as some of the changes mentioned.... yes most of them I plan on encorporating into the final product... the only one I am still questioning is the changing of the hook... I'm considering it, but I like the image of the walls crying because the men are unable to (because it would show weakness)... So I'll consider the one you mentioned (as the idea still references that point) but any drastic changes to the hook I'm kinda not so fond of . Thanks again for checking in and all the wonderful suggestions we'll keep working on this one until it shines
Derek

BTW....

Just a suggestion....

Title should be...

"These Walls Cry" or even "These Walls" or even again "Walls Cry"or simply "Walls"

Hey Steve!

All great suggestions... maybe "Ballad of the Crying walls"? , but no I think you're right simply Walls... could really cause some real interest.. as it's the walls the our keeping him in.. and keeping his spirit from being free... I think walls has some solid potential.. Though a close second would be, "These walls cry"
Derek

With "Walls"....

There is a certain mystery to what the tune is about....You have no idea what the song is about until you listen to it...So people will give it a spin just to check it out.....

Lots of good ideas going here and everyone has given good suggestions. When you reduce the number of words it will be easier to understand them because you will not be squeezing them in...so the message will become more powerful.

You might try recording the vocals a section at a time so you can focus on the pitch in each section (I got the impression you did the whole song in one run through....).

Keep at it!

Hey colin

Wow you've got good ears... yes and the bridge was kind of an add at the last minute musically... hadn't practiced it yet... I could easily have run through the whole song three times before getting close to "right" , but I decided it was better (being a work tape) to get the ideas out there so i could see what worked and what still needed tweaking... So I'll certainly go back and fix those errors that have been mentioned.. Again good ears... Truth be told I don't like punching vocals in and out, because inbetween takes I tend to lose focus and I sing more off than if I run it straight through... Don't worry this is a W.I.P (work in progress) so I'll definitly end up with the best product possible.
Derek

Very True Steve

And I am leaning towards simply "Walls" because it encompasses that mystery you spoke of.
Derek

I like the production and guitar. The spoken lead in is vague and I can't understand it. I think that if you used a plain "Johnny Cash" like vocal through the song that it would appeal more. The distorted vocal is fine but not with this song. It should be more natural. I know that the guy is in prison but he sounds too desperate and emotional. You can't allow yourself to sound vulnerable in prison.

I like it, Derek. I have to hop offline tonight but wanted to let you know I listened!

So in a nutshell... I'd look for ways to trim up the syllables. I didn't mind the length... then it just ended! It was over!
Another sugg... might be to detail out (not graphic gory but more detail) actual events in the prisoner's life rather than vague references.

IE "Mama, I just killed a man... put a gun against his head, pulled my trigger now he's dead..."

Not to be facetious, but some concrete detail could push this over the edge from cool into VERY cool.
bye!
Linda

bumping at request, as to get it finished and demoed