JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum So Where Does Your Song Rank On Ourstage?

Yes, we had 3 straight $5000 winners:

Jillian Goldin won in April
SGX won in May
Cobalt won in June

What a yo-yo.

My song that went to #1 in instrumental just a week or so ago is now at 246! And another song I have entered in Funk/Groove has moved up from 200 + to #23!

Talk about a roller coaster.

Someone bought my EP from cd baby this weekend. I wonder which exposure got his interest?

Yesterday I noticed we had the #1 Pop and #1 Female Singer Songwriter songs with Jenn Cristy and Rachael Sage respectively.. (I am sure they've moved since then). But we're definitely seeing more and more JPF members show up at or near the top.

Brian

My guess is that there's a smaller number of voters on those channels and so the swings are more severe when voting comes up..

Brian

Today I'm #10 in traditional country.

The first week is a weird time...lots of songs haven't had much voting yet. So a song that entered at #700 with very few votes might suddenly shoot up the charts in mid-month. Lots of jockeying going on right now.

Mark,
I'm curious if you (or any of us) could pick any songs now (by or before August 20) that will end up in the Top-10 by time of the Semi-Finals? I posted a intro to this A&R challenge concept here:
Can anyone pick the Top-10 before they happen?

I think I'll go for it this month for the New Age/World channel. I've got a song there now, but I won't include it in my prediction, only other songs that I'm discovering, mostly new ones posted for the first time this month, of which a few are extremely commercial sounding!

I encourage you and others here to select a favorite channel, browse around to hear some new songs before say the 15th of August and then post your top 5 picks (or up to 5) which you think could end up among the Top-10 in the semi-finals towards the end of the month.

The key is that we post by or before August 20th because this will be about 1 week before OurStage will publish the Top-10 that made it into the semi-finals.

So the question is, do we have enough "insight" (experience, discernment, etc.) to be able to be able to pick a winner before it actually happens?!

I know back in March Brian spotted a great song in one of the Rock channels (Alt. Rock?) and it actually went on to win the Grand award for that month, so I know some of us will get pretty close to picking some of the top winners!

Michael

I have to be honest: No. I realize that I am not a good judge of such things. In fact, I think I may be a poor judge. Sad but true.

Marc,
Ok, then please VOTE for all my songs...
I'm sure you'll help them all win, ha ha!!!

Cheers,
Michael

Well, I'm back from the Newport Folk Festival, and to say it was a great experience is an understatement. I was treated very well, had a fantastic crowd response, and made quite a few contacts. Plus, we had fantastic weather and the line-up was pretty impressive. I've blogged about here:

http://www.ourstage.com/profile/ryanfitzsimmons/posts

You can read a review of the show here:

http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2008/08/03/newport-folk-festival-sunday-recap/#more-3312

I want to thank Brian and JustPlainFolks.com for making this possible! I hope to see you all down the road in the future!!!!

Ryan Fitzsimmons
www.ryanfitzsimmons.com
www.myspace.com/ryanfitzsimmons
www.sonicbids.com/ryanfitzsimmons
www.ourstage.com/epk/ryanfitzsimmons
617 718 1549
cell 617 763 6658
16 Banks St
Somerville, MA 02144

WOW Ryan
Congrats and thanks for sharing that great story ! ! !

The Blue Island Beer Club has finally sneaked into the top 20......this time in Indie Pop. Alita's Lullaby is one of Bruce's songs.

Can someone give me the link to submit songs to that Newport FF Channel. I Google'd it and looked around, but couldn't find anything. Thanks much, Folks!

Well crap.....we were in the 20s out of 550 or so with our song and the Ourstage people decided to move us to a different channel (folk) and now we are 331 out of 370?

What's with that????

Had a song in country that had climbed to #28, today it plunged to 120. What's up with that.

Everett,
It's still early in the month. When new songs are moved or entered to a channel, it seems to shift everything around, but I think on the 15th of each month, they don't allow new additions and I believe sometime after (maybe when the quarter finals start), you can't withdraw songs from the contest channel either. Within the next week the rankings should start stabilizing.

It would be nice if once you reach a certain rank, if it could stay there or go higher, but not go lower again, but that might require a different vote ranking algorithim. I wonder if they might consider that some day, but it might not be practical because everyone has to "fit" somewhere between #1 and the last song in the bunch.

Michael

COLIN

It's a conspiracy...........


Actually what probably happened was people voting "FLAGGED" you for being out of genre.....Don't know how many it takes but.......I do believe it was probably all the songs in front of you who didn't want you to have your "day in the sun"...

HATERS Colin....just plain HATERS ..........

Kevin,

That contest channel is over. Ryan was one of the 4 prize winners and he was our JPF rep, as JPF members get special consideration in their contests and in that one case they had a definite slot.

Thanks to Ryan for posting a follow up (it's not .com by the way Ryan... it's .org) I am looking forward to reading all about it.

Brian

Okay, so I finally joined up because a certain nationally-known act is coming to Seattle, and they're using an Ourstage contest to offer an opening slot for this act. People are always comparing me to this guy, so playing to his crowd would be a great boost for me locally.

I entered one song in Singer-Songwriter (Male) and one in Indie Pop yesterday. They haven't moved at all yet, but I'll keep y'all in the loop.

Wish me luck!

http://www.ourstage.com/epk/scottandrew

Scott,

Did you enter via the JPF link?

Brian

As of today Rude, Crude, Abnormal Dude is #73 in punk. Raise A Son is at #84 in Americana. There's two songs at opposite ends of the spectrum. I'll enter another song before the 15th in another category.

My song 'No Greater Joy' is #112 out of 465 in Christian/Gospel.

I had another song in the Dance category, but it never got one spin, even though I entered it before the month began, for August. Does that mean not much activity in the genre? Anyways, I removed it from that category.

There probably is an explanation in previous posts, I'll got look.

Alas, I did not, I clicked a link in an email that was sent to me from the artist.

I've re-read this entire thread to catch up with everyone's comments on Ourstage. In some ways, it's really awesome that the system is so hard to game and they don't allow mob rule.

On the other hand, since they don't allow mob rule, it's hard to explain to your fans what to do. "Hi, I'm in this contest, but you can't vote directly for me, but sign up anyway and judge the music, even though my song might not pop up, uhhhh..."

I guess I can take solace in the idea that only people who really want to participate will bother signing up as judges...

Ah.. then we can't help you with the opportunity I don't think (though I'll try if the opportunity comes up). They give special consideration to JPF members who do well which we recommend for live gigs and since I've seen you personally perform, I might be able to put you over the top for a performance slot should you finish well. Ryan Fitzsimmons got a full performance slot on the Newport Folk Festival stage via that program.

We've run the link in every newsletter since February and here on the message boards.. I am not sure what else to do to get folks to use it. It also helps us demonstrate our members are supporting their sponsorship of JPF.

Brian

Hi there,

Daniel (OurStage Community/Artist Rep. Guy) here. Here's a note from an OurStager that I think is important for all to read. It touts the benefit/virtue of just explaining to your fans to vote for music, not for you. That's what makes OurStage different.

Also, check out my blog post about honest judging. Read the comments too if you can.

http://www.ourstage.com/profile/danielpalmer/posts/33
-------------------------
The note:

Hey Daniel,
Thanks for the sweet comment. I'm loving OurStage so far. I haven't even had a chance to vote yet this month, and my OTHER vid is in the top 30. Awesome!

It's funny that you said hello first because I'd actually been meaning to say thank you for your extremely helpful write-up about the merits of honest voting on OurStage. After perusing it, I instructed all my fans to vote their true instincts as I was, and you were completely right... it ended up working in my favor.

So thank you!

Cheers,
Lin

The Community flags songs they consider off topic for a channel based on our channel descriptions in the FAQ. The OurStage team reviews these flags against the channel description before moving entrees. It used to be we had to withdraw the entry entirely. We felt that moving the item to the best fit channel was in the best interest of the artist. Better than having the song removed from competition. Disappointing artists is a drawback to allowing everyone to self-select. We encourage folks to read the FAQ and channel description when entering the contest (on the entry page). There are benefits to allowing the artists to decide as well as copyright issues as well. Drop me a note at my OurStage profile: http://www.ourstage.com/fanclub/danielpalmer and tell me what song it was. I can give it a listen and explain better why the move.

Ah, I guess I didn't realize the link was a way of tracking how people entered the site. Sorry 'bout that.

My entry is currently 165th out of 518, so I guess that's pretty good. It's been jumping around pretty wildly but seems to stay in the upper third. I entered my most popular song, "Holding Back."

I'm not entirely sure how they'll pick a winner for the opportunity. Highest score in the Seattle area? Highest artist mojo? I'm kinda hoping there just won't be many Seattle-area competitors in the channel...

Dang! a day before the semi-finals my song "Lonley Man" was 76 or so in "Indie Pop". It's been in since the beginning of the month. I was thinking, "cool", I'll be in the semi-finals. Well 2 days later,it's at 462 out of 521. Now that's a blow
Oh well, my mom would have liked it..............

Scott,

Keep me posted during the process and I'll ask around about how the choice is going to go. 165 probably isn't high enough for them to notice.. hopefully you'll keep rising at least into the top 50 or so..

Brian

Hi Brian, is it the website www.ourstage.com
I managed to put a song up there but they didn't ask for a category when I was listing it. I don't know if I'm putting them in the right place. I'll have to spend a bit more time there looking around the site.

Hi Susan,

To enter as a JPF member (and thus get some special consideration in opportunities as well as let them know you're one of us) you need to register by first visiting the link right on the top right of this message board. Click the Ourstage graphic/link to go there. As for what to do to get your songs working, that I can't answer. I am sure that many others here, or Daniel Palmer from Ourstage will be happy to help though.

Brian

Holy Moly! I am mired in last place in the Bluegrass channel for this one: http://www.ourstage.com/music/channel/130-bluegrass/JZDFWGEHSLOB-take-me-where-youre-going . I did move from 53 to 52, but that was because someone else dropped out. Am I really the worst entry in this category?

It does seem to me that a large number of songs here are really country tunes hiding out on the Bluegrass channel. I might be out of touch, though, because I have been getting a lot of "Not Many Agree With You" responses to my judging.

I think I might not be wired correctly to compete in the OurStage's of the world.

Kevin

Edit: Though I do seem to be a good lead in to the #1 tune -- Black Horse Inn (LOL!)

Are listed under your own name? because I don't see you anywhere?

Brian

Found it.. so you're "CVille Ramblings" eh?

Your song, in my opinion, is not bluegrass. It sort of falls in the Roots or Blues realm. In our JPF awards you'd likely start in Roots. The reality is that most of these songs are NOT Bluegrass either. And I listened to 5 other random songs and yours was better than all of them.. so don't stress.. you'll likely move up.

PS: Black Horse Inn is, in fact, a hybrid Roots/Bluegrass tune. And that one is better than yours. But you're clearly not at the bottom of this category.. nor are you the farthest from Bluegrass.

Brian

Oh, I use Cville Ramblings as my nom de plume.

Kevin

Kevin. Don't use Ourstage as your only measure of how good your song is. It has the same setup as most "Battle of the Bands" contests. The difference is that instead of selling beer, Ourstage is selling advertising. I have an interesting experience with an entry on Ourstage - but I'm not ready to reveal it yet. I've been in an evaluation process - trying different things and interpretting results - which anyone who's in the music business and on Ourstage should be doing.
Has anyone noticed how decadent the comedy genre has become? Many the entries are obscene and alot aren't funny.

Over all,I have enjoyed my time at Ourstage,but I think this is the last month for me there.I'm just not competitive enough to write and play things for mass consumption, I'm happier just to do my thing and let the chips fall where they may.

My Song "Surf was up today" got some rave reviews elsewhere on the net but it tanked or was removed in every genre I put it in at ourstage.On one hand I'm very proud not to be "Mainstream",but on the other hand I certainly don't want to bore anyone. Unless they make a "Vacation music " channel I don't see me doing good in any contest there,but if anyone has an idea of where to put this song,I'll give it one more try.Its in "Jam Band" now,but I can still move it ,I think.

Peace & Aloha
PB

Oh, I don't -- but dead last is still dead last any way you cut it. I am going to leave it there awhile to see if it revives at all. I haven't heard any other "Appalachian modal drone" type stuff yet, so maybe it doesn't fit. However, I still lean towards the viewpoint that the performance is what is being judged, not what sub-genre of "Bluegrass" it might be.

I do admit that I do take a few points away if I hear a full drum set banging away in the background.

Kevin

Brian: Thanks for taking the time to poke around in the Bluegrass channel for a few minutes. I agree that my tune is closer to "roots" music than bluegrass -- and I just discovered that they do have "Roots" channel. However, OurStage decided to combined it with traditional country (huh??????). Might as well just combine blues and rock.

Now, I realize how difficult it is to come up with great genre "buckets" and Ourstage has been adding some new ones. Right now, they ought to stop and re-visit all of their genre definitions and re-do them (combining the ones that make more sense). Maybe even have genre/subgenre

For example, right now they have:
Americana / Alt Country
Bluegrass
Country
Traditional Country / Roots

Could be:
Genre: Americana/Country
Sub Genres:
Modern Top 40 Country
Traditional Country
Alternative Country/Americana
Bluegrass/Roots

Note: I chose the above sub-genres so I wouldn't have more than their 4 categories.

Heck, You probably have as much experience in genre classification as anyone in the country -- they ought to enlist your help.

Kevin

Hello,

My name is Maritza and I'm a singer/songwriter from Yonkers, NY and I'm planning to move to Indiana in 2009. I recently released a cd and also received a publishing deal. I am trying to market my music in Indians since that is where I'd like to live.

You can hear samples of my music and purchase cds or mp3files at:

www.cdbaby.com/maritzaforero
http://www.tradebit.com/filedetail.php/2128100-a-painted-world
http://payplay.fm/maritzaforero
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2477624/
www.maritzaforero.com

I hear ya, Papaya Boy. Songs of mine that I think will do best, the ones that get the best reviews on songwriting forums don't always translate to the OurStage crowd. But to me, this is just a good lesson, and I love being surprised. I think OurStage comes darned close to market reality, only without the elements of luck, connections, payola or advertising.

Maritza

Hello,

I'm glad to see this message started. I have not been coming to JPF regularly and this particular subject has been on my mind. I joined OurStage in February because of the post about it that I found here at JPF. I was skeptical, even with the talk about its contests being cheat proof. I've only ever entered one other contest with my music before.

I was very surprised when my song "These Old Shoes" was voted as the number one pick by listeners in the April contest to win an opportunity to perform at the Newport Folk Festival. That's out of 402 entries for that monthly contest. I was competing against all kinds of talent performing music in a variety of genres. I never imagined that my song writing, performance and recording could reach such status in any contest.

From what I can ascertain, this particular contest ran for four months. The number of opportunities to play at the festival was indicated as being as many as four but at least two. As the winner of one of those four monthly contests, I thought that I had a good chance to be one of those lucky two or four to perform at the event but I guess luck wasn't with me.

Unlike other monthly contests at Ourstage, where listeners choose those who will win in certain genres of music, this contest had different rules about who would be selected the winner of this stellar performance opportunity. Truthfully, I didn't read the fine print about how the winners of this contest would actually be chose until after my song reached the number one status in April. When I did read the fine print, it wasn't very clear to me who exactly would choose the winner or exactly how the winner would be chose. Realizing that my monthly win of this contest wouldn't secure me the opportunity that I was seeking, to play at the event, made my celebration at being chose number one a somewhat hollow victory.

During my search for answers to my questions about how the winners would be chose for this contest, I found out that I would be awarded a gift card worth $100 and a notation on my page at OurStage that one of my songs had been voted number one. While these items are wonderful to receive, I had entered this contest seeking neither awards notations nor gift cards. I wanted a chance to play at the Newport Folk Festival.

I wrote to the staff to ask for clarification about the process of how the winners would be chose. Due to the process of having to email the message, the answer took some time to receive back and was no clearer as to exactly who selected the winners or how they were chose. It was stated that the decision was going to be made by the OurStage staff and Newport Folk Festival folks and that they would choose from among high ranking artists in a variety of genres. I took that to mean that I wasn't privy to the actual info or that those actually making the selections did not wish to be identified or have their criteria for making the selections known. It's not as though every aspect of such a decision can be known. Like many of the contests I see other artists entering on I'm certain much of the decision making is subjective.

I fully realize that it's their site and their contests and they can certainly make what ever rules they wish to guide the outcome of such contests. They also have every right to either inform those entering such contests of any and all of the processes regarding the selection of the winners or to keep any of the process as private as they wish. I was simply surprised by the outcome.

After the winners were announced, I read that their age had some bearing on the selection process. Those selecting thought that the festival needed an infusion of younger talent. Being a rather new writer but an older performer, with grey starting to show, I supposed that I didn't look the part of a younger talent.

I'd like to offer these words of advice to those of you entering contests at OurStage. Read the fine print first to gain as clear an understanding as possible regarding such contests as you might enter there. Though you may, as I did, win the popular vote, you may not win the vote of those super 'secret' delegates and in some of the contests at OurStage it's their votes that really count. And one more thing, you might also want to post pictures of yourself that have been taken 20 years earlier because looking young might be as important as being an award winning popular choice by those listening and voting.

Many thanks, hugs and smooches to all who voted my song, "These Old Shoes", a number one listener's choice in April at OurStage.

Reggie Miles

Hey Reggie, I hear you. Sometimes the person with the best song isn't the best fit for the opportunity, for any number of reasons. I'm sure winning the channel competition is only one factor.

Woohoo, I'm currently #1 in Comedy. That surprised me because I've been floundering in the 30's and 40's for most of the month.

Hey Reggie, that was a great song! I'm sorry things didn't turn out as you had hoped for the Newport Folk Festival. (I think anybody would have made the same assumption without reading the fine print - that the channel winner performs...)

I brought this up once in the past, but nothing has come of it, and it's still irking me: Why is there no list of the artists who are actually winning the industry sponsored prizes? I'm certainly not trying to make any accusations, but I think it'd be nice if that information could be made public. Artists could potentially learn a lot from seeing who actually gets picked; it seems only logical.

Another reason I pose the question is that I had a bit of a strange experience back in March. As the Grand Prize winner that month, I was supposed to receive a wardrobe of clothing from a sponsor called BC Ethic. Well, I waited several weeks and hadn't heard a peep from them (or OurStage regarding them), so I decided to call the company. The people I spoke with hadn't even heard of OurStage, and directed me to an answering machine. I left a message and never heard back.

Furthermore, the BC Ethic website clearly states that it is a men's only clothing line, but there was no mention of gender in the prize description. I finally spoke with someone at OurStage, asking them to defer the prize to another channel winner that could actually benefit from a collection of grungy menswear... You know, the rocker type. But I also never heard from them about who they picked to receive it, and I don't know... Maybe it's just me, but you'd think that the recipient might have sent me a thank you for the donation, you know? I can't help but wonder if there ever was a recipient.

I know OurStage is a big site to run, but that's why it seems natural that someone keep this information up to date... and public! Both zircon (Andrew Aversa) and myself have had songs in the finals 3 or 4 times now each, and some of our friends (including JPF members) have as well. Yet none of us have been contacted about any of the numerous industry sponsored prizes, and there are so many of them... I think people are going to start getting suspicious after a point. (Not necessarily that OurStage is offering bogus prizes, but perhaps the sponsors aren't always following through?)

If Danny or anyone else from the OurStage staff is reading this, I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts on the matter!

I can tell you in the case of the JPF slot I forwarded 3 names to them and 2 were rejected and one was accepted. I based my decision on who I had actually seen perform live and could vouch for as a great live performer. I picked the 3 JPF members who finished highly AND who I'd seen live. Age had no factor. We do Roadtrip showcases all around the US so we can see people perform live and we often have chances like this to give opportunities to really good live performers. It's my understanding that the winners DO get considered, but if they didn't make an offer, then either the Ourstage folks or the Newport folks passed on you. The Newport folks passed on our two submissions, not the Ourstage folks. The artist they chose from JPF was Ryan Fitzsimmons. He's a great live performer and has a shot at being one of our Live Artist of the Year nominees in the next awards based on his performances in Rhode Island and Boston during our last Roadtrip to that region. Had I seen you perform live I certainly would have considered you. I did a lot of voting (over 5000 times) so I am quite familiar with your song and voted for it quite a bit. At that time I didn't actually realize you were a JPF member (it's pretty hard to remember 52K people), (I had asked in the newsletter and on here many times for folks to let me know if they were in the running). Going forward I will know, at least, that you're a JPF member should another opportunity come up. And if we tour through your area, hopefully you can come out and perform which would make it easier to recommend you for opportunities.

Brian

Jillian,
I agree, since they have a big "splash" with a long list of prize sponsors on this page:
http://www.ourstage.com/about/prizes
it would make sense to have a listing of monthly prizes that were distributed to any/all winners. They even provide a review of past month's prize offers from a drop-down date menu (at top left) of the Prizes & Awards page. For example for July:
http://www.ourstage.com/about/prizes/music/2008-07-01
it says: Prizes for the July competition will be awarded starting on August 01, 2008.

Now that's we're in August it says:
Music prizes & awards for august 2008

So yes, it would be great if they could provide a monthly listing of all the top winners (from top-10 on up) that have received any kind of sponsorship prize. This makes the awards more transparent, adds promo value for the sponsors, motivates the contest entrants and also lets everyone (fans, artists & industry) know how the prize "stakes" got fullfilled and distributed.

In my opinion this would be a much more valuable service compared to the "Talent Scout Challenge" feature which is pretty much a meaningless game to try to pick past winners. They'd do better to focus more on the actual winners, prizes and surrounding success stories!

Michael

You've got the idea, Michael! I like your line of thinking. Hopefully someone over there will pick up on the idea as well...

I'm currently #148 Christian/Spiritual. Song title Call My Name.