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Bayside
by Gary E. Andrews - 10/19/26 10:48 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Okay, maybe this has been covered a lot...but why search for old news?  I understand that copyright is immediately applied and assumed as soon as you write something. And if you declare your copyright, you are even more solidly protected. And the best protection of all is to register your copyright. But for those of us who write a lot, that's mighty expensive. I average about four new songs a month. At $45 a pop, that's $180 per month, or over two grand per year. No way! So, when--if ever--is it necessary to register copyright?
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Joined: May 2001
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Hi All,
I like to have 3 or 4 songs ready before I register them. For me writing three good songs was sometimes a chore. I would have two done but that third one was a B***h. So I would just put them away until I had a third one done.
As long as you don't submit a song to anyone why register it until you are ready to do something with it. No one knows about them but you. I have no Co-writers so for me it isn't a problem.
Get everything ready but register as you wish to begin useing them. As time goes by you can decide which ones are the strongest or that a certain song is a good pitch, then register them.
As soon as the registration hits the Post Office you can relax, you are covered. I usually wait a week or so before I pitch new songs to make sure they haven't been returned by the post office for some reason. A Registration may take 4 or more months to come back.
Ray E. Strode
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you can copy a whole SET of work Mark...So wait and put 12 songs on a CD every 3 months and register them that way...it'll be just $45 x 4 or $180 for the whole year. If a song gets picked up, then you remove it from the set ! !
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Mark,
Another alternative is to register a collection of lyrics. I believe the collection can consist of as many lyrics as you have -- 40, 100, 500. You pay one registration fee for the entire collection. In 2006, I registered a collection of 27 lyrics.
If a year from now, someone records a song of yours without your permission or your copyright, you could show that the lyrics were registered as part of the collection and rightfully belong to you.
Walt
FlyAwayAngel
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Mark
Yeah, it's really easy to register a collection of works with the Library of Congress. There's only two forms--a main one with all of your info and an second one on which you list all the songs in your collection. Just take all the songs you want to include and call them something like "Mark Kaufman Songs, Vol. 1). You have to send them lyrics and a cd (or sheet music, but if you're like me, that's way out of the question. LOL).
I don't know if there's a limit to the number of songs you can include in a collection. From what I recall, there isn't.
Or--you can use the "jailhouse copyright." Just put all your lyrics and a cd in an envelope, seal it, and mail it to yourself by certified mail. When you get it, don't open it--just put it somewhere safe. If someone tries to rip off your music, you will have a postmarked piece of mail proving that it's your stuff.
Hope that helps
Eric
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If you feel something is felt to be in the public domain, registering a copyright should be a must, whatever yourself or everyone else may make of it.
I have read about many popular acts that were rejected from companies and boo'd out of clubs before they were lucky to meet someone with connections.
Although that copyright stamp on a site is all the proof anyone should need.
Copyright and publishing is a money racket just like any other with businesses.
My bigger concern is when I have those songs for those demos as far as the publishing.
Publishing, unlike copyrighting can costs hundreds upon thousands of dollars.
It would be nice to know if there would be some type of guaranree of marketing success with those chosen recordings for publishing.
But it does'nt work that way unfortunately.
Unless perhaps there is that person with those connections.
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Or--you can use the "jailhouse copyright." Just put all your lyrics and a cd in an envelope, seal it, and mail it to yourself by certified mail. When you get it, don't open it--just put it somewhere safe. If someone tries to rip off your music, you will have a postmarked piece of mail proving that it's your stuff.
Hope that helps
Eric This is incorrect advice and should no longer be repeated. No court of law will uphold a copyright that is attempted in this manner. Please erase it from the pass it on mentality. The only copyrights that a court of law will pay attention to are ones from the Library of Congress (for the US). There are other official copyright registrars for other countries. Get the facts, then pass it on.
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Jody
Didn't say it would hold up in a court of law--I only said that you would have something "dating" your material. It likely wouldn't hold up in court of law. However, at least it would be one piece of evidence that the guy trying to rip you off wouldn't have. Plus, when I posted that, I was being facitious, but that tone probably didn't come across in the post.
This does raise another question though. Several folks on this site have stated that once you post your song on the internet (on here or soundclick or other sites) that you're copyrighted. Would that stand up in a court of law? If so, how is that different from a "jailhouse copyright"? At least if you mailed yourself your lyrics, you would have the stamp of the US Post Office (a federal agency) on there. I'm just wondering.
Personally, I wouldn't rely on either the internet or the post office to protect a song that I felt had real possibilities. At the end of the day, the best way is the "official" method. I usually wait til I have ten or twelve songs ready, then send them off to the Library of Congress as a collection.
Eric
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From everything I have read here Eric, the answer to that is NO, it would NOT hold up in court. Search the old threads for "poor mans copyright" and you will find ALOT of debate and info
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you can use the "jailhouse copyright." Just put all your lyrics and a cd in an envelope, seal it, and mail it to yourself by certified mail. When you get it, don't open it--just put it somewhere safe. If someone tries to rip off your music, you will have a postmarked piece of mail proving that it's your stuff. Okay folks, it's time this myth died. Mailing your work to yourself in the USA does not constitute any kind of proof of copyright. It has not held up in a court of law. Why? Because you cannot prove you did not tamper with the contents of the envelope. You could have mailed yourself an empty envelope and put the contents in later, for example. Why does posting something on line stand as some sort of proof? Because there is a date on the post. A date that says when it was posted or when it was edited. If you're going be spending money on certified mail, spend a few more bucks and register your work properly. Bear mind, properly registered works also have an added advantage - if someone infringes on your copyright and it is proven in a court of law, the court costs will be paid AND you will receive $10,000 PER infringement.
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It's up to you as to when to register your copyright. You have to assess the risk. No, the old idea of sending the songs to yourself through registered mail is not effective. I would imagine that having a copy of sheet music notarized might work (but only in a limited way...as Vikki said, no court costs or penalties). Also, I'd guess that sending several copies to different people, maybe to a lawyer and/or some other, presumably, upstanding individuals, might provide a songwriter with witnesses. However, nothing provides the protection here in the U.S. that the Library of Congress does. It costs a bit, but they're in the protection racket.
You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash It's only music. -niteshift Mike Dunbar Music
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$10,000 per infringement??? HOLY PAYDAY BATMAN--that's almost enough to make me wish someone would try to steal one of my songs. LOL. That's definitely more money than I've made from any songs to date. Though going through court proceedings is never pleasant.
I think the cost for the Library of Congress is $45--I registered some songs back in January and I think that was the cost. According to their website, you are covered as soon as they receive your package--though you have to wait 4 to 6 months before they send you the certificate (still haven't received mine from January). As I mentioned earlier, the way to do it is register them as a collection--then you don't have to pay $45 PER song. I'm pretty sure that you can pull an individual song from the collection at a later date if you need to and copyright it individually. I guess you'd want to do that if the song became a hit.
Eric
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Hi All,
I believe it is permissable to only Register a Copyright once as it states on the PA form with some exceptions. After that it is Registered. If you register a collection of several songs be sure to keep a good record if you don't list each song Title on the Registration.
If you assign a copyright on a song in a collection that is the only song a Publisher has rights to. All the other songs are still free to do what you wish or assigning another song to a different publisher.
A publisher doesn't re-copyright your song if it is released for public sale. It is the songwriter's duty to register the copyright.
A Record Label may Register a CD of which may have songs on it by several different writers on the SR form of which protects the sound recording only.
If there are complications of who owns a copyright somewhere down the road and you never registered your copyright it can get very sticky. Keep things simple and neat. You don't have to be a U.S. Citizen to register your copyrights with the Library of Congress.
Ray E. Strode
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I sent some songs August 2007 and I am still waiting for my certificate. That is slow.
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Everett..........
You better call em.....1-202-707-5959 (memorized now)
They had mis-filed mine for "Tell Me Why" and cashed my check but no copyright anywhere to be found....From September of 2007...
Just got it back last month....they investigate over 6 months....It can take up to 8 months so they say...Once I investigated they tracked it down about 3 weeks later....
Just a thought....They take it very seriously though and work to get to the bottom of it
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Steve: Thanks for posting the number. From my perspective, they should furnish folks who have paid for (but not received) a copyright application... with an 800 number. (In other words, a free call!) I am so disgusted with the whole process. Our civil servants don't seem to think of themselves as such. Dave http://www.showcaseyourmusic.com/DaveRice
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Folks the Library of Congress also is doing on-line registrations now. It's bit of a pain to get through the first time, but it's handy.
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Vikki
With their on-line registration, do you just upload mp3's to them? Or do you still have to send them a disc?
Eric
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Everett..........
You better call em.....1-202-707-5959 (memorized now)
They had mis-filed mine for "Tell Me Why" and cashed my check but no copyright anywhere to be found....From September of 2007...
Just got it back last month....they investigate over 6 months....It can take up to 8 months so they say...Once I investigated they tracked it down about 3 weeks later....
Just a thought....They take it very seriously though and work to get to the bottom of it Steve, I did contact them a couple of months ago, I was concerned because the Post Office lost one on me before, they sent me a copy. This time they said they had received it but had not processed it yet, so far still no certificate, that's ten months. I've sent in another lot since that, I'll probably get that one ahead of the other one.
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Comments:
It's "up to" $10,000 per infringement - the number is not automatic, there are several considerations (such as intent vs. innocent infringement).
Publishers (and labels) often ask for an assignment of a percentage of the copyright - It is also common for well known artists to request a share of the copyright as part of the deal to release the song. You will sometimes find language in publishing deals that say the publisher agrees to register the work in the authors name (or both) read it carefully.
It is common to use an SR form to claim registration for both the sound recording and the song itself (by filling in the nature of the copyright claimed as "words, music and performance).
Don't depend on notarized copies, or witnesses, or mailing it to yourself, or any of the other creative ideas expressed in this post - registration is prima facie evidence of ownership. That means that under the law if somebody else registers it before you do, they are presumed to be the owner - and it's a real uphill battle to try to prove otherwise when they are entlted to the presumption. Register the damn songs!
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Vikki
With their on-line registration, do you just upload mp3's to them? Or do you still have to send them a disc?
Eric you upload mp3s and pdf or text of lyrics.
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Comments:
It's "up to" $10,000 per infringement - the number is not automatic, there are several considerations (such as intent vs. innocent infringement).
Publishers (and labels) often ask for an assignment of a percentage of the copyright - It is also common for well known artists to request a share of the copyright as part of the deal to release the song. You will sometimes find language in publishing deals that say the publisher agrees to register the work in the authors name (or both) read it carefully.
It is common to use an SR form to claim registration for both the sound recording and the song itself (by filling in the nature of the copyright claimed as "words, music and performance).
Don't depend on notarized copies, or witnesses, or mailing it to yourself, or any of the other creative ideas expressed in this post - registration is prima facie evidence of ownership. That means that under the law if somebody else registers it before you do, they are presumed to be the owner - and it's a real uphill battle to try to prove otherwise when they are entlted to the presumption. Register the damn songs! Thanks Stu!
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