JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Ourstage judging?

Yes, it's mostly a combination of heavy traffic and various site maintenance activies. Regarding traffic, they probably have their own server network, or perhaps they are tied in with the Amazon S3 service which gives them virtually unlimited storage and bandwidth on an "on demand" (scalable) basis. I know a lot of companies are upgrading to such operating systems now because the hardware is virtually maintenance free so they can focus only on the software side of the operations.

Michael

Hi All

My song "Don't push my button" started out at about 350, then went to 310, today it is 403 in Country. Well I am not skiting about my song, but I am disappointed, I am a bit shocked by it all, maybe it's going backwards cause I'm an Aussie hah? My song is a great song, and I'm very proud of it, so I don't think I will enter any more of my songs on "Ourstage" cause I know it is better then that, and I am going to work so hard to getting it released, as many here what to purchase my song, so I am not going to go off what the votes say, on "Ourstage".

Michele
Aussie girl from down under

Michele,

Don't go by the numbers this month. You entered it late in the month. It hasn't been heard enough. It's good exposure though, for you and your music, it seems. So think of it that way!

And, I like your spirit...yeah...keep on, keepin' on, Aussie girl!

Kristi is right!
Keep it there for about 2 or 3 months and you'll probably see it start moving up the vote rankings. When you're done "testing" your song, you can always send an email to support asking that your song be removed. To to this, first be sure you have removed it from the contest entry, then they'll be able to delete your song information.

Don't give up too early!
Michael

Oh thanks so much Kristi, and Michael, I will keep it there, it can't do any harm hey, yeah I do get what your saying, I will see how it goes next month. I am not really worried about it now, I am just under a lot of stress at the moment, and I have been a bit on a downer. So thanks very much for the confidence boost, cause I needed it. Cool, you are all the best.

Michele
Aussie friend from down under

Yep, I just had two of my songs moved out of a "genre" that they were deemed inappropriate for. One was moved by someone named Martin to the Acoustic "Channel", as they refer to it, and the other was simply bounced out of the competition altogether with a suggestion that I re-enter it into the Folk Channel.

These were both songs with social messages that I thought fit within the subject of songs in World Channel. Near as I could figure, though there were no specific reasons offered, except that others in the channel complained about them, my two songs did not contain "World" or ethnic instrumentation. The definition for the channel expresses plainly that the music 'usually' or 'frequently' contains this but there were no definite requirements for this type of instrumentation.

I supposed (my mistake) that because the messages of each of my two songs contained issues like poverty, war, hunger, etc. they would best be represented in a genre that featured what I supposed were world messages. Each time I've heard "World" music the messages of those songs touched on similar subjects. I'll admit I'm not an active listener in that genre and that's probably where I made my mistake.

My issue with the site is more that it seems they are rather ill-prepared to handle what they hoped to create. I've brought specific nonfunctionality issues to their attention and their response was to not return my notes with any clear answers. Then, without my permission, they acted on their own and assumed what I want done, and just did it.

For instance, with their new calendar function. They offered it within the past couple of days and asked everyone to upload their dates and info. I went to my page and got everything to work but the image function to go along with my post. I sent them a note about the problem but their response was to simply upload an image of 'their' choice to my calendar post and not the image that I wanted to upload. What's that all about???

This is not a good way to deal with real issues regarding someone's webpage functionality. They should have admitted the problem and fixed the issue so that 'users' can use the site effectively. The site administrators shouldn't be the position to assume what the user wants done to their page. They should simply make the site functional for users to edit their own pages. If they can't do that then they should get out of the website business.

I liken this to my first homemade "Nobro" resophonic guitar. It worked as well as it could for me for about five years, but my ability as a maker of instruments was a beginner at best and the darn thing kept breaking down. I'd have to spend time to fix it again and again. Finally, I realized that what I needed was a guitar that was more reliable and since I still could not afford a fancy new one or even a good used one, I decided to make another. It's been around 15 years since then and that second "Nobro" guitar is still going strong.

Dealing with a funky instrument didn't help me to become a better player. It did, however, help me to create a better instrument the second time around. Having to deal with all of the nonfunctional aspects of that first one helped me to understand how to make the next one better and less prone to breakdown.

Having a better tool to play my music with was what was needed. I've found that having the best possible tool will yield me the best possible results. Reliability and dependability are important aspects of every good instrument. It has to be able to do its job and do it well, so that I can use it to do my job and do it well. I now have that more functional and reliable guitar but it took me those first five years to gain the understanding and skill to create that better guitar.

Now, I don't really mind being OurStage's guinea pig or beta tester for their concept site but they should present it as such to their users. They should also actively work to fix whatever issues are brought to their attention by their users. Providing their users with the best possible tool will yield the best possible results for everyone involved. An inadequate tool only serves to frustrate its user and can do more harm than good.

Of course, I have no real idea as to what they are actually dealing with in this undertaking but in all such matters adequate communication between users and administrators is an important key to the successful resolution to all such matters. Acting without adequate communication between each of these two parties is counterproductive and only serves to increase tensions.

So far, in my attempts to notify the site of problems that I've been having, on a couple of occasions, I've received form letters in response. That wasn't what I had hoped to get, but I imagine they've got their hands full dealing the issues of this site. This kind of response and their "fixes" in response to the issues I brought up gave me the impression that perhaps they were understaffed with qualified assistants to respond to the needs of their users. That's just a guess on my part.

I hope they can get their act together to make this idea a better tool for their users to use.

Reg

Hi Reg,

I'll make sure that Daniel sees your post here. He's not the "tech" guy, but I know he's very responsive to artists and has been here on our site as well.

Thanks,

Brian

This is just a general reply to all JPF members regarding Judging. I wrote a blog post (on my profile) which I hope answers many of the questions and dispels some of the myths and rumors surrounding it. Please have a read and leave me any comments you have about it on my blog so I can respond.

http://www.ourstage.com/profile/danielpalmer/posts/16

Favorites at this time do not impact the rankings but at some point soon they will factor into a different score that will matter for something completely new we're working on! Stay tuned for details.

Daniel,
This is great! Hopefully you won't mind that I repost it here for everyone to read and maybe generate a bit more interest and discussion. See you here & there (OurStage) again soon!
Thanks,
Michael

Daniel Palmer's blog
10 myths about OurStage judging to bust or prove.

This post is intended to educate you about OurStage judging and dispel any myths out there about how it all works. We think this is MUST reading for all OurStage fans and artists who want to maximize their enjoyment of OurStage battling, and get the most benefit they can from OurStage.com. So here we go—10 myths to bust or to prove.

Myth #1
The OurStage judging system is no different from other competition sites.

Busted.
OurStage.com is not a popularity contest. We are a collective community of music, video and film fans. And we’re not a select panel of so-called “experts”. OurStage “raters” judge music and video from all of the artists competing in monthly competitions. Behind the scenes number crunching and crazy accurate algorithms do the heavy lifting to compile the near real-time rankings. Couple that with a game-proof system that ensures that the fans decide, and you have yourself something that’s not only different, it’s revolutionary.

Myth #2
Dishonest judging will help my artist win.

Busted.
Really, when has lying ever gotten you anything? Well, perhaps it has, but that isn’t the point here. All raters’ rankings are combined into a big data pool. Unless you have access to the pool—which you don’t, it’s impossible to know what specific affect your vote has on the rankings. And what’s the point of dishonest rating anyway? Honest voting for other artists will help your rankings—that’s a promise!

Myth #3
OurStage.com gives everyone an equal shot to be heard, seen and ranked.

True. Our smarts are smart. The democracy of OurStage mandates equal opportunity for all artists to be heard, seen and ranked. But it’s up to the fans to decide how those rankings turn out.

Myth #4
My fans can vote for me.

True.
Of course your fans can vote for you, so long as they’re judging in the same channel you’re competing in. Chances are they’re going to have to vote for other artists before they come across your track. And it could be a few battles, or loads of battles. Hence we’re not a popularity contest. But remember, honest voting for other artists helps your rankings! So having your fans just vote is helping you and art in general. Hence the continued call that everyone should be honest in their opinions at all times. That can only help you.

Myth #5
Channel competitions are only helpful for my career as an artist if I win.

Busted. Big BUSTED actually.
Take a read of some of our artist success stories we’re compiling (and more coming in everyday). Many of these artists were HIGH RANKING but not necessarily the winners of their channel or monthly grand prize. Participating in our monthly competitions is the BEST way to introduce yourself to potential new fans.

Read our Artist Success Stories if you don’t believe us.

Myth #6
Voting down the better artists will help my favorite artist win.

Busted. Another big Busted.
Trying to be cleaver, sneaky and downright dishonest only wastes your time. And don’t get all conspiratorial on this topic either. There are simply too many relationships analyzed behind the scenes and too much battling going on for that to happen. If some content does slip in the rankings, it’s because of what the fans decided as a collective. Be fair and honest and everyone wins. Including you. Why? Because honest voting for other artists helps your rankings.

Myth #7
There is great music and video even lower in the ranks.

True.
Bottom line is there is a lot of great music AND video throughout OurStage. However, your tastes may not reflect the tastes of the masses. That’s ok too. We encourage you to browse the channels and use OurStage for what it is—the ultimate discovery destination for emerging music and video artists.

Myth #8
If I judge enough battles I’ll get to judge my song or video.

True.
But that doesn’t guarantee how many battles it will take. It could be 1 battle or 1,000 battles or even more. There are too many variables at work for you to predict. Our job is to ensure that all content gets a fair chance to be heard and ranked. If you’re rating content, then its your obligation to the artist who made it to rate it fairly against the other item. If you’re judging only to get to your own stuff, then sadly you’re missing the point.

Myth #9
Entering late in the month improves your chances of winning, or ranking high.

Busted.
It only decreases the number of days raters have to discover your talent. Why do that to them or yourself?

Myth #10
Once you rate something you’ll never be asked to rate it again.

Busted.
You are part of a collective pool of tastemakers. To ensure a fair and accurate rating process you may rate something one time, or a bunch of times. But you’ll never rate the same pairs twice.

Post deleted by TAMERA64

Post deleted by TAMERA64

Re editing intros. I think this could be a good idea however I would have thought that any musician other than absolute beginner would have edited their song to remove all the waste material before posting. I have heard numerous songs with several seconds of hiss before even the intro kicks in. Some intros are SO LONG they are songs in themselves. LOL
It is all down to thought and professionalism. I usually mark these efforts down. IMO quality of recording is an important a factor to be considered in this comp.
I have said it before but some people obviously spend more time care and effort on cover photos and graphics promoting them and their song than they do on the writing, performing and recording of the actual song.

Ok Danny, I added it!
Now for Myth #7 it says:

True.
Bottom line is there is a lot of great music AND video throughout OurStage. However, your tastes may not reflect the tastes of the masses. That’s ok too. We encourage you to browse the channels and use OurStage for what it is—the ultimate discovery destination for emerging music and video artists.

Hopefully that's what you meant.
Michael

"Allowing the artists to pick the starting point of their track"... I think what Danny means is that when the song starts to play, the cursor begins later in the song, like at the chorus if you like...but the listener would still be able to back it up to the beginning.

I like that option.

Hey Danny,

Thanks for your response to my concerns. Please forgive my lengthy response here but again, I have many concerns.

Is there any reason to hope that the photo album edit function at OurStage will be made functional any time soon, for those of us with plenty of great shots to share?

I also recently wanted to update my songs. I didn't read the fine print the first time round and noticed that the quality of the songs offered was a pivotal factor. The Mbps needed to be higher on some of my earlier song offerings.

So, I went looking for a way to perform that edit of my songs at OurStage and was surprised to find that we, as users, have no capability to edit our songs once they're uploaded. By that I mean that we cannot delete them and re-upload our music in a higher Mbps format, which is what I wanted to do.

This didn't sit right with me. I felt that I wanted to put my best musical foot forward. I thought that I should be free and able to correct the quality level of a few of my songs that I had uploaded. I suspected that offering a better quality recording, as the site suggests, may increase my chances in the competitions.

I wrote in to ask why users could not edit their own songs in this way and was offered a form letter response. The letter said I would lose my song's favorited denotations. That didn't concern me, because the songs in question had either not been favorited at all or were only favorited by a few. I countered by telling them that the measure of true fan of my music would be those that would return a second time to re-favorite my songs. I also offered that I have fans on other sites that are that rabid for my songs. The form letter also said that the number of times that the songs were listened to by judges would be erased as well. That didn't really concern me either. The letter further said something about not allowing songs in competition to be re-uploaded. There was some concern that users could use the function to cheat in the competitions. I answered this concern with the fact that none of the songs in question were in competition at the time. (They weren't) It also stated that all of my awards or medallions would forever be irretrievable. I had not won or received any awards or medallions.

Someone at the site then simply deleted all of my songs, except the two that were in competition. They did this without trying to coordinate with me about which songs I wanted to delete. I wrote back and mentioned that I had specifically said some and not all of my songs. In fact, I had just been working on the first of several that I wanted to upgrade and did mention that title.

Then, to my surprise, all of the previously deleted songs reappeared. What's this about then! Question: Did they actually delete my songs, or merely hide them from view? Does this site keep a cache of my songs that I upload forever to use as they wish? (Perhaps I should have read that fine print more closely.)

Is there any plan to offer users an edit function for their songs? Is the deletion of my page at OurStage the only way to ensure the removal of my songs from this database? Will my song uploads forever be controlled by this site?

Other sites that I have uploaded my songs to all offer their users the ability to edit their own songs without having to go through a site admin. MySpace, EZ Folk, Motagator, SoundClick ...It's a long list. We also compete at those sites too, but not for prizes.

Maybe I'm naive with regard to the big wide world of cheaters out there. In truth, I usually steer clear of competitions because I assume they are all fixed in some way. But I'm surprised at this site's presumption that users are to be considered so full of guile as to not be trusted with the editing of their own songs. It doesn't make me feel very good to be treated that way.

I guess they are just doing what they deem necessary to ensure the proper distribution of the prizes involved but somehow, since I haven't won anything, the prizes don't mean as much to me given the treatment I have to endure to compete.

I thought that, once deleted, all of the old song versions would be gone forever and that I would then have to reload them all. It would be a little time consuming to do that but it's something that I was willing to do to ensure that the ones that needed to be upgraded were presented on the site in the best possible format.

I had hidden that first song in question from view on my site thinking that I could then upload the new version. But the site would not allow my newer version to be recognized while the old version was uploaded and as I said there was no way for me to delete the old version.

When the administrator deleted all of my songs that were not competition, that one song that I had hidden, the one I was first trying to delete, did not get deleted with the rest. I suppose, because I had hidden it from view. I un-hid the one song later and mentioned this to the OurStage crew and they then deleted that song for me.

I gave up trying to figure out how to upgrade the few songs that I was concerned about. There seems to be no way to do so without going through an admin and since the admins for this site don't offer me an adequate means to communicate what I want done, I'm thinking that the best way to get done what I want done with my offerings on this site is to delete my page altogether and perhaps start again from scratch.

Question: will my songs actually get deleted from this site if I should take that step? Or, will my songs continue to be used by this site and therefore block any future attempts that I may wish to take to upload different versions of the same songs?

I had to do a similar thing with my photo album on this site. I had a large number of photos to upload but once uploaded the edit function ceased to work to allow me to move them around within my album. Again, I was surprised by this because there are so many different sites that I have photo albums on. All of these other sites have perfectly functional albums. The possibility of not being able to easily edit my album at OurStage was simply... surprising.

Again, I wrote the site to ask if they knew what the reason for this might be but when I received no clear answer, I simply took the matter into my own hands and began to delete the photos that I had uploaded in order to edit their position within the album by uploading them in order. I found that when I had removed enough of them from the album the edit function was enabled once again. I thought that was weird.

So, here's a note of warning to those of you who would like to show a lot of photos at your page. More than two rows of photos on my page caused the edit function to go haywire and not work at all. Somehow this kind of a glitch doesn't seem very professional at a site of this caliber but so far this glitch has not been cured. I still cannot edit my photos.

Okay, just one more concern to point out. I noticed that one of the other sites at OurStage had a slide show of photos happening on their page. I wrote the admins once again to ask if they could explian why I could not included the same on my page. Does this site offer differing functionality to different users? Or do I simply need to understand more about the mechanics of progarmming to be able to edit my page at OurStage to include the same?

Okay, I think I'm about done for today. ;o)

Reg

Just want to clarify, when I was having trouble with the script error thing, and the clicking not registering, I now do not think that was Ourstage's issue. I tried going to the site with Internet Explorer and it works fine now. I was using a different one and that was the problem. So, no worries!

Alright, you reminded me of just one more thing that I thought might be the issue with the trouble I'm having with the photos at OurStage. That being, that I was recently trying to do some similar updating on another site that was using a Mac based program to produce their pages. I had all kinds of trouble making the changes. I had to contact the admins for that site and ask for assistance. I wonder if this site (OurStage) is using a similar type software that is simply incompatible in some respects with the way my PC functions. This is just a wild guess on my part. I'm no tech guy but it was surmised by the folks at that other site that perhaps my issues there, which were very similar, were probably related to that fact.

So, Danny do you know if this is the case? Did Ourstage use a Mac Based software program to build their site? Do you think that this could be the cause of the difficulties I'm having? In this day and age I would imagine that the two OS were compatible enough to function well together but if those folks at the other site are correct that assumption may well be premature.

We plan on enhancing the photo album to create slideshows of gigs, add comment capability and such. As of today you can add/delete photos from your album.



For today we recommend that you HIDE the version of the song you want to replace and upload a NEW version of the same song at the higher Mbps. That will work fine. We're enhancing delete capabilities but the caveat of anything that completes a contest will be archived as such.




Not sure what to say here except that we do our best to do the right thing. Sounds like there was a miscommunication here. Bottom line is this part of our process is changing. We have the hide ability. There is impact to favorites as its as if you've removed the song someone may have set as a favorite. If you're still having issues with your tracks feel free to drop me a note on my OurStage profile. We'll work it out.



Again, see above. I can't really address as I wasn't involved in the exchange, but I can help to resolve if its still an issue.


Yes, future enhancements are in the planning stages.



We'll need to look into this. I'll forward this issue on to our tech team.