JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Where is the morality of the young people going?

Jim, your example here makes my point. The legal system worked. They found the woman was mentally incompetent to judge right from wrong. The court didn't "make" the woman mentally incompetant by judging her as such. Just as the jury in my example didn't "make" the woman guilty of murder, just judged her as such. I agree 100%, perhaps the folks at the social agencies should stand trial. If it's found that they were negligent or, worse, malicious, then they should be punished accordingly. But, do you blame the agencies themselves? How about the socialist system that puts such agencies in place? I certainly wouldn't blame them. So you make my case. It's people, individuals or groups of individuals, who must take responsibility for their own actions. The lady who was proven to the court to be mentally incapable of knowing right from wrong was responsible for her own actions...responsible, but in her case, society did not, and I believe should not, punish her. She is, however, still responsible, is she not? The folks at the social programs may also be responsible, not for directly hurting the child, but for failing to protect a child from someone who was potentially dangerous. But as we move out from the circle of responsibility, there lies a danger in and of itself. Maybe the woman should have been sterilized? Or kept locked up? Or maybe the child should have been taken away from her? Or made a ward of the state? And who should have paid for it? What do you think?

It's the thread that would not die!

Mike did you mean Social system. or as stated Socialist System?
We do not have a socialist system unfortunately in the uk we have a capitalist system much like yours. Re payment for the child's upbringing regardless of who is to blame we must all bear that burden. Although some capitalists are to greedy to want to pay anything to help the less fortunate.

Jim, neither of us have either a capitalist or a socialist system, we both have a mixture. There is nothing capitalist about a social program, yet we in the U.S. and apparently in the U.K., have plenty of them. It's the socialist aspects of our systems that put people in positions where they are responsible for the welfare of other people. I believe in programs for health and welfare, I just don't believe they are ever run efficiently by a government. A government protects its own, bureaucracy reigns, folks fall through the net and no one is held responsible. If the lady in your example was being cared for by a church, or by a non-religious, non-governmental agency, then perhaps the government could hold them accountable for her without there being a conflict of interest.

I love this thread. What a diversion. I was in a bad mood this morning 'cause with all that snow melting and then the rain the river rose and washed out the road I built through my woods and It cost a lot of money.
But now I am feeling better.
Maybe the nice bowl of oatmeal I just ate had something to do with it.....naaahh...

Mike Dunbar for President I say..

The thread that wouldn't die, the thread that's morphed into something really weird.
The get it off yer chest thread. Or the do something to get rid of something that's making you ill

Like Puking ....or...diarhea.

I say lets blame crime on the law. If it wasn't for all these damn laws there wouldn't be any crime. How can you break laws if there ain't none......And since there is about 100 different versions of the Bible we can't trust that and everyone has a different God so we don't know which one to believe....Maybe the bad guy is the right one (Satan or whatever you want to call him)...
did you ever think of that?

The Big Bang....Hmmmm I had one of them once....there was this blonde that........Oh! the other big bang.. Well I don't think that happened either.

Abortion....a sin.... Hmmm I seem to remember reading something about spilling seed onto the ground....and something really bad happened to that guy.

Illegal wars????? Now how can a war be legal? Somebody has got to kill somebody to get it started. Ain't that a crime?

Politicians....Liars....Hypocrites.....

But....But....he didn't really have sex with that lady....did he?.... and She didn't really steal all that money....did she???????

And there really was WMD's wasn't there?....actually there was but Clinton and Blair destroyed them when they dropped all them bombs.

And.....and....
I can't decide which one of these crooks I want to vote for.
Heck I might go Democrat and vote for Obama. He's a first generation American and the Kenyans like him. And his family knows about Politics. His cousin is involved somehow in that mess over there. And He's left of Hillary....
now that's left..

Did I miss anything? I'll have to go back and check BC's post.

Oh!.....how come some of you folks want this thread to die. I think it's a goodun'.

Mike Dunbar for President...I say


One more thing....
I believe....
If you don't work....You don't eat...


and how come know one asks me what that means at the bottom of my signature?

To quote Pat Paulsen stealing from General Sherman, "If nominated I will not run, if elected I will not serve." I will happily, however, accept campaign contributions.

Mike your point about social services and Gov orgs not running properly is valid.
Now I do not know what it is like in USA but our services are a mess. Always have been. Recently it is an even bigger mess. Cause some idiot decided to let privately run business take them over. Profit grabbing became the goal rather than providing a good service. Now patients are scared to go to hospital especially for a minor op as MRSA and C dificil plus other nasty superbugs are almost certain to be contracted. Standards in other institutions have fallen yet we now have to pay even more so as to line some fat cat's pocket.

I frankly don't care if the post dies or not, I am just amazed at how many words can be expended to say so little. It was someone else that said it should end, I was just musing on the fact that it won't.

Bill this is not so much a "morality thread" more an "immortality thread" I think it will run forever.
It proves one thing however..... evolution..... it keeps evolving from one thing to another. LOL

My point exactly, and the more they try, the worse the mess. When the government assumes responsibility then takes folks' money and it fails, then tries to skip the blame by farming the work out to fat cats, what do you think will happen? I can't force strangers to take care of me. I'm responsible for myself, used to be responsible for my kids but they're grown up. It takes families, churches, non-religious charitable agencies, all who are neither regulated nor supported by the government.

No Mike it takes a change in governement. AHA I should not have said that somebody might copy the idea.

well well here's a chicago tribune article, front page of the tempo section today, very relevant to this thread

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0110atheistjan10,0,5864894.story

Hi Herbie her father sounds as nutty as some of those deeply religious folk. No true Atheist would deny anybody a right to prayer. Just as no true religion should deny anybody the right to practice another religion. LIVE AND LET LIVE.

Hey Herbie
How ya doin'?

Sometimes I wonder about people.
I am not sure how I feel about this girl and her dad.
Mostly I'd say they are just selfish. They want it there way no matter what the consequences to other folks.
Kind of like a drunk driver, they don't care who they hurt as long as they enjoy themselves.

They do seem a little obsessed with logic. But it's reassuring to find someone ballsy enough to tout the Constitution - even if it is a fourteen-year-old girl with her dad's hand up . . . .

A priest, a minister and a rabbi walk into a bar....

The priest orderd a Beer.
The minister ordered a beer.
The rabbi ordered a beer.
The bartender pourd their beers and said,"Who's paying for these?'
The Priest, minster and rabbi all looked skywards, and said.....















"He is.
Graham

My state has a "moment of silence" at the beginning of each school day. I have been present to observe hundreds of these exercises in silliness. They ought to call it a "moment to text message," because that is what is going on.

If any of the the people who supported this fraud thinks that kids are using this time to pray, they are more deluded than Dennis Kucinich.

On a more positive note, these kids are absolutely free to pray in school any time they want to. How many of them actually do it is anyone's guess. My guess is very few, although I have observed a lot of kids saying grace before lunch.

Who the heck is Dennis Kucinich?

Text messaging.........Why the little buggers. Them things should be outlawed in school. School is for lernin' dern it.



Graham.....you're back


and it's still raining. I guess it will wash out what's left of my road. Boy my wife is gonna be pissed when she finds out how much money I wasted.

I haven't been anywhere Bill.
Got a couple of hours on line yet.
Yep.
School's for learning, and them little buggers are learning how to walk over teachers, and the like real good.
Graham

That atheist article is ridiculous. They are not even praying--just having a moment of silence. How can anyone object to a moment of silence. No one is praying in front of them and they are not asked to pray. The 3% of the population is trying to regulate what the other 97% can do.

This really gets me:

Dawn sings religious music in the Grace Episcopal choir.
Talk about hypocritical. I think she and her father just do all those things for attention, like a lot of others I have seen.

Hi Ladynred for once I agree with you.

OH! Oh!

I know
How about economics

This just in.
Countrywide Mortgage is bankrupt so it is being bought out by Bank of America.
The CEO of Countrywide will get $115,000,000 in severance pay.
ROFLMAO, He leads the company into bankruptcy, thousands of folks lose their homes and he gets $115,000,000 (that's millions folks)

Pay attention Kids, this is how it's done....

Ya gotta love America, LOL.

The thread that wouldn't die.

Hi Bill Good ol capitalism rears its ugly head again. I hope the money is donated back to the homeowners or should I say homelosers. Somehow I doubt it.

If each house is valued at or near say $300K that's only about 500 houses...

Hi Noel it is the thought that counts.

Then why do it, Lady? And tell me, why is it the religious right that is always behind these moment-of-prayer laws?

You really like the word "hypocrite" don't you?

Yet, religious people are desperately trying to sneak--or force--prayer into schools, but will look you right in the face and deny it.

Who is the hypocrite?

Personal attacks and name-calling don't seem to be bringing us any closer to resolving these issues. Maybe we should respect each other's right to have their own opinion, and move forward.

Two question come to mind.

1) At present, are children prohibited from taking a moment of silence?
2) How long is a moment?

This is how I feel:

The "Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act" seems fanatical to me; and legislation making such a practice MANDATORY a little extreme.
A "Silent Reflection and Meditation Act" might enjoy wider public support, especially if it isn't mandatory.

I think a moment of silence brings God into the school, because when a classroom is quiet for a minute, it's a miracle.

Let's consider for a moment what is really behind an effort like the "Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act".

It's common practice to bury pork deep inside a bill it has nothing to do with. If a Congressman wants a tax break for a large campaign contributor from his home state, he's not going to float a bill called, "Tax Breaks for Large Campaign Contributors from My Home State", is he? No. He's going to bury one sentence, in nanoprint, deep in a mammoth bill entitled, "Free Ice Cream for Everybody". This goes on every day and we all know it.
So what does it mean when someone floats a bill with the term, "Student Prayer Act" in the title? Could it be a deliberate attempt to turn over a rock just to see what crawls out. For all we know, the girl's father could have written it himself?

It will serve us well to remember that Politics is considered by those who devote their lives to it to be the highest calling to which Man can aspire - short of Heaven, of course - a field that only the glitterati of the very best among the very best can ever hope to gain admission to. The rest of the population is the means by which those people ply their trade. We citizenry are here to be manipulated for the greater good. It's this way in every country, has been since before recorded history, and will be until the end of time. Some countries are just more open than others in their utter contempt for the subjugated masses.

So where does this leave us - you and me - regular Joes - just plain folk? It leaves us exposed, in the dark, scared, just trying to survive. Nobody trusts anybody because that's the way we've been conditioned to think. If the great unwashed are pre-occupied with protecting themselves from one another, they can't keep an eye on their elected officials.
But wait a minute - if we little people are all in pretty much the same boat, what would happen if we row together, instead of beating each other with our oars? Huh! If we pretended to care about each other long enough, do you think we could wake up one day and discover it's true?

Well Noel I guess if your house was one of them 500 I think you'd be a happy guy.

It gets even better. I think we should be teaching our kids how to be bankers. They could use the moment of silence to figure out how to swindle other kids out of their i-pods or phones.

On the news

It's all a power game. When a preteen girl can change the way her school runs, it can be an intoxicating rush to her. It's easy to use a cause or a movement or a religion as an excuse to exert power. It becomes easy to see those on the other side of the issue as impediments, roadblocks, votes, objects. How can they think, feel, be like that? Don't they know they're WRONG? They (it's always "they") must be stupid/disingenuous/deluded/evil/ or worse, inconsequential. So, therefore, there's no reason why I should care about their lives. I'll stop them if I can, even if it makes no difference to me. It's the principle of the thing. Cause the cause is what's important, the cause is what's right and good.

So that's why all of you people are stupid. You're all inconsequential. Your futures are dark, your past is laughable, and your present is irritating. The beliefs you hold are delusional and would be funny if you weren't so dangerous.

Hmmm. The amazing thing is, that there are people who think those things about all of us. They are all of us.

OK Mike
Now you are starting to scare me.

I'm going to bed now.

Boo

o.k Bill..Whats with the new pic? Is that your Irish coat of arms? {Just curious}

Yup
I got tired of looking at the same old ugly mug and figured so was every one else. Thought I'd try something different for a few days, LOL

Yee Gads,
If you have a problem in keeping Religion, not morality, out of the schools, you have a problem with the framers of the Constitution. There wasen't much of a fuss about it until Ms. O'Hair took it to the Supreme Court.
The Supreme Court ruled correctly but many factions keep trying to sneak religion back into the schools. Will they never learn. There are so many places a person can go to if they are of a mind to attend religious functions. I think the Churches are begging for members.

To allow religion into the schools would require a constitutional ammendment. If you start tinkering with the Constution who knows what you would end up with. Would you like your brand of religion outlawed and be forced to attend something you don't accept? Today if someone doesn't like the church they attend they either find another or start their own.

About the housing crunch. People went to congress and complained that a lot of citizens couldn't get a loan because of their economic status. They couldn't afford the house! But rules were written so these people could get in a house, for all practical purposes they couldn't afford. In many cases they took a variable low rate of interest they could barely afford and when the interest rates went up they were unable to keep up. A "Great" Government program that should have never happened.
But your tax dollars are going to pay for it. Don't blame the lending instutions.

I agree, Ray. Benjamin Franklin saw this coming, that's why he said: "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."

Bill, hope I didn't scare you too much, but I was just paraphrasing things folks here have said to each other. Scary, isn't it?

Minorities are ruling majorities, the tail wagging the dog. We are bending over backwards to be politically correct so that the majority is giving up their rights to not appear to be bullying the little guy, while actually the little guy is bullying the big guy. Talk about reverse psychology. A small guy can often bully a big guy if the size difference is extreme, the big guy can't win, if he wins, he becomes the bully because he was so much larger than the small guy, if the big guy backs down, he is now a coward. That's what is happening in society. The minorities are taking advantage of this situation.

At the risk of being politically incorrect {ah, screw it, I don't care!} you're correct on that one Everett.

Everett, it's the other side of the pendulum, normal human condition. For years the majorities ruled the minorities. That's why you'll find no governments in the world that are simple democracies. Again, Ben Franklin: "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"

I think I just heard the do nothing congress did something.
They gave themselves a $6 Grand a year raise.

Yep...it's scary

Back to economics
I just saw an Electric car on the news that'll go 40 miles without any fuel, just recharge the batteries. (that will cost a little for the electricity) Cool. It will cost about $34 grand. It will be good for folks that only drive 40 miles a day.

Lets see keep it say....5 years.
that's about 73000 miles. that's about 46 cents a mile.

my brother drives a caddy(and it's a really nice car). He bought it used 5 years ago for $13,000
Gets 27 MPG. at 40 miles a day thats about $8100

That's what... $21,100 or about 29 cents a mile.
guess you have to add in oil changes tho.

I think I'll stick with the gas guzzlers.

I eat lamb twice a year while I clean my guns!

Jerry,

I haven't had lamb in a long time, mmmmm, roast lamb with mint jelly, yum. But Jerry, buddy, living in Florida you need to clean your guns more often than that. If you're not shooting them regularly, get some Breakfree CLP gun oil that they make especially for storage. Here's a link to the NRA tips on care and storage:

http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp

Thanks Mike!
Let me know the next time you come to the Tampa area and I will make some Lamb.
Part of the trick is to make sure you get lamb not mutton.
There are a few store's here that carry it on a regular basis.
Part of what is wrong with the morality of the young uns is they don't eat lamb!
I also wear short sleeve shirts cause I have the right to bare arms.
too much time too close to the sun!

[quote= Again, Ben Franklin: "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" [/quote]


Love that quote, first time I heard it, so true.

I've been gone a few days. Big Jim, I'm suprised the sky didn't fall since you actually agreed with me for once. LOL

I was wondering because things all of a sudden were so peaceful but we have had some hellish weather over the last few days.

By the way do not want to start all this again however...this you might find of interest
I was speaking to a very good friend of mine (over forty years) he is a very high ranking policeman. Well we were talking about the latest crime figures. Guess what they are down on last year. It turns out not so good news. Why? because they are actually well up. It is just that fewer folk are reporting crime and are making the statistics look better. Why? because very few crimes are solved and police are so understaffed and underfunded that they take forever to respond. Folk just cannot be bothered reporting them any more. They also do not like the idea of the felon's repercussions like bricks through windows and cars vandalised. Courts are handing out very light sentences and the prisons are full to overflowing. A directive was handed out stating that judges should only send folk to prison for very serious crimes and give them shorter sentences in order to free up spaces. Why can they not just build more prisons I asked? No money and think what it would do to taxes having all those extra inmates to feed clothe and look after. The governmant also seem quite happy with the figures.
IS THIS THE END OF SOCIETY AS WE KNOW IT? PROBABLY. WHO CARES ANYMORE? well none of the politicians seem to.

A sign of the times, end times.