JPF Home Page Forums Musician Gear and Techniques Microphone and Vocalist Forum choosing a mic

Hello to everyone from spain. I am in the dificult process of choosing a mic. I have been a few years of no regular singing and now I am recovering the thing and geeting a new band. In the past I had a shure sm58, I would like to change, I think os avery standard and muddy sound. looking thoug the web I came to these options. I would appreciate if you can give any opinions since I don´t have a clue about these mics and I don´t think I can find all of them in local stores to try them. I will use for a loud rock band

Sennhesiser 845 or 945, Audix OM-5, AKG D5, Shure 58aBeta or the condensers sennheiser e 865 or AKG C5, I am not shure if a live condenser is a right choice.

for reinforcement I am deciding between soundcraft gigrac 600 and yamaha emx 312, I like more the look of gigrac and probably has better sound but the 312 has more features, it would be nice if I could try them on somewhere

Best regards

It is generally accepted that a dynamic mic such as the Shure SM58 is what is used in live gigs. The Shure SM58 is the standard mic that is used by many and the one that most gravate back to even when they have other mics. However there are other mics that will work just as well. It is generally accepted that Condensor Mics are for studio use because they are not as rugged as dynamic mics.

So pick a new mic and see how it works out.

I am using the 30 dollar mic from the pawn shop. it had a sticker of a mushroom on it, and a small dent on the cage...
i like it because it has an on/off switch on it. it has a full sound, with limited distortion, I don't know how your music stores are there, but some of the better ones in North carolina have a "studio Room" in them. you can plug almost anything in and listen, try it out. i am sure mics are no different.

That is the biggest problem with catalog music sales. you can't try things out..

good luck
steve

I do have a Shure SM57 I sometimes use for gigs, but I mostly perform acoustic. It's choosing a mic for recording that's my issue. Even if I go down to my local music store I don't know how I can try out a mic except by renting it and bringing it home and recording something with it. Even then, I don't know exactly what I'd be listening for...

I agree with Vicki. There is no way you can test it with unfamiliar equipment in the music store and REALLY know what you're gonna get when you take it home and take it on a gig. You just have to make the best call you can and take the one that hits you

I agree with Vicki. There is no way you can test it with unfamiliar equipment in the music store and REALLY know what you're gonna get when you take it home and take it on a gig. You just have to make the best call you can and take the one that hits you

Different folks different strokes. Or one man's meat is another man's poison. Everybody has a different voice and different preferences so you have to test out different makes, types and models till you find the one that suits your voice best. I use Audio Technica dynamic mics for live work. Better specs than Shure a better purer sound (I think) and less expensive. I have a couple of SM58s but rarely if ever use them. Any of the mics you listed are ok it is just down to budget and preference.

Hi,

Electrovoice makes the following; good for a male voice and for recording the bass of a leslie speaker. More expensive than the SM 58. This will be my next mic investment.

RE20
RE Series Wired Microphones

Industry Standard Variable-D® dynamic cardioid microphone l Favorite among broadcasters and sound engineers worldwide l Variable-D® design and heavy-duty, internal P-pop filter reduces proximity effect l Internal element shock mount reduces vibration-induced noise l Bass roll-off switch

Steve is correct about EV mics. Our keyboard player uses an EV. It is very bassy and dull. It loses a lot of the top end signal. Ideal for mikeing up acoustic bass, bass drums, bass bins or deep male voices. For normal vocals I would not dream of using one.

depends if you want a mic for live of for your home studio recording
I have a rode-k2 and works nicely
by the way i'm from spain too

As indicated in my previous post, the RE 20 has a bass roll off switch, so if you didn't want alot of bass, you'd hit the switch. This is a pretty darned good mike for male voices. To each his own.

Steve this is a very old post revived I do not know why. I agree with you 100% to each his own.
pRISCILLA I think the original question way back in August was referring to a mike for live performances. That was what the advice was based on. The mic you are referring to is a studio mic.

Hey Jim,

Did you ever see Saturday Night Live when Dan Aykroid responds to Jane Curtain during a point/counter-point discussion, "Jane, you ignorant slut!"

"Steve is correct about EV mics. Our keyboard player uses an EV. It is very bassy and dull. It loses a lot of the top end signal. Ideal for mikeing up acoustic bass, bass drums, bass bins or deep male voices. For normal vocals I would not dream of using one."

Jim, you ignorant slut! The Re-20 is used in studios and by radio DJs all over. It is used in sound reinforcement at the pro level too, which was an issue in the original post. Looks like I picked a bad week to quit sniffing glue. Now, this is Steve letting go of his end of the rope.

I'm going thru the process of choosing a mic right now. I've borrowed mics and rented mics to try to find the right one for my voice. I really liked the Neumann TML 103, perhaps a bit bright in the top but really picked up the nuances of my voice. I tried an Apex 435, but it wasn't a good fit at all. Now I'm trying out a Shure SM7b, which has nice mids but can be a tad dull on the top. Finding a mic to fit my voice hasn't been easy, but I'm getting there. I'm also understanding that a good engineer probably could get a better result from the same tracks, so it isn't all about the mic.

Steve everybody is entitled to an opinion but in future keep yours to yourself. I rather think you are the ignorant slut. I said before each to his own and only pointed out that I personally do not like EV mics is it a crime? Back to the glue sniffing sounds appropriate for you. Sheesh
Vikki I suggest having a word with the engineer. But in any case most if not all the mics you are looking at are up to the mark and yes it is certainly not all about the mic a good sound engineer can adjust eq etc so do not worry.

Hi again Jim,

Your posts sometimes come across as condescending, narrow-minded, and less than respectful. Mine was intentionally that way, and I apologize. It was a failed attempt at humor.

Vikki,

There are two basic classic mic sounds, the Neumann and the AKG. The Neumann U49 is often considered a "male voice" mic (think Tony Bennett or Frank Sinatra), and the AKG C12 is often considered a "female voice" mic (think Billie Holiday or Ella Fitzgerald). Mostly they'd go through a Neve preamp.

Many microphone companies try to copy those sounds, Lawson is a very good, reputable, mic maker that makes 47, 49, and C12 style mics (I don't work for them ). There are also good Neve copies, and if you record with computer, there are good plug-ins that approximate the Neve sound (but there's nothing like the real thing). Your search might want to start with the classics, though a good old one will cost in the vicinity of ten thousand bucks.

Hope this helps.

Hi Steve apology accepted. It is just me or perhaps a Scottish thing unintentional and never meaning to be disrespectful. I tell it like it is or as I see it. I SPEAK MY MIND. I STAND UP FOR WHAT I BELIEVE IN. Sometimes I am wrong. If you knew me then you would know that I will go out of my way to help anybody. I have strong opinions and cannot stand fools gladly. I must admit I have a wicked sense of humour and like to wind people up. those who cannot see this can sometimes get offended. If you read all my posts you will see that the majority are well meaning and helpful. Although if something or someone in my opinion sucks I will tell them constructively but firmly.

Thanks Mike. One of the issues is that I have a very bright voice due to my classical training, so finding a mic that doesn't increase the brightness on the top is a challenge. And, of course, I don't have thousands to spend. That's why I was considering the Neumann TML 103, it's about as high in price as I can go. The Neumann AKG C12 sounds wonderful, but I can't afford it.

Vikki,

You might want to try a Sterling Audio ST51 or ST55. They have a different diaphragm system, and don't have that much of a high end "pierce." Of course, you don't want to listen to your voice alone when deciding. The high end sizzle that you hear when it's by itself gets toned down by the reverb and by the sizzle of acoustic guitars, pianos etc. Always listen with a track for comparison.


And one more also, also. Don't forget, when it's time to mix, you can remove some brightness, but if it's not there, you can't put it in.

All the Best,
Mike

I've heard great things from high places about the Mogami MXL V69. It's generally available for about $300 but performs like a $1000 mic. Plus, it's looks very cool, and comes with windscreen and shock mount. I want one bad...

MXL makes a good inexpensive mic. After recording upright bass with one for Tommy Overstreet's Country Gospel Favorites album

http://www.mp3.com/artist/tommy-overstreet/summary/

I got one. It isn't the Mogami tube model, it's the least expensive of their large diaphragm condenser mics. It sounded good in the studio, harder to hear on these MP3's, but sounds good on the cd. They're not in the same league with a Neumann, or a 414 or one of the top shelf models, but are as good as any of the Chinese capsule mics I've heard. But mine does have a somewhat brittle high end. The tube model is most likely warmer and the Mogami wiring must help clear up the highs.

Having what I feel to be a minimal singing voice yet trying to be emotive, a high class mic is not the answer to me.
I have a recording I did with a singers mic, and I have a retake of that recording I did with a 7 dollar headphone chat mic.
No one could really tell the difference between the 2.
I go from instrument or instrument to analog recording device to computer.
But I know from hearing acts like The Buggles or Level 42 that the vocals may not have been superb, but they had a style.
And they most likely did'nt sing on anything less than a singers mic either.

The best bet for a singers mic for me so far has been the Radio Shack Super Cardoid singers mic.
There is'nt all the bad effects picked up with it, but it will diminish the sound too and is quite noticable when plugged into a simple sound card than from my non-singing mic.
When I advance with my recordings, there may be a need for my actual singers mic.

But if you are looking for something to enhance more than what you naturally have, you should'nt go there if you want to be original, and pick a basic mic you can plug in and go for the emotive quality of a basic line-in mic.

But that all depends on what you are after with your sound.

Matt Sorry we are talking about Rolls Royce and Ferraris etc and you recommend a beat up pick up truck from the jukyard?


YOU MUST LEARN THE BASICS BEFORE YOU COMMENT. If you will not do it for me do it for your self. PRETTY PLEASE.

Big Jim:

"YOU MUST LEARN THE BASICS BEFORE YOU COMMENT. If you will not do it for me do it for your self. PRETTY PLEASE".

Jim, I can take crap as well as anyone.
I could come here, having a college education and copy what the other guy says and make myself look like I'm the bees knees with everything I say.
I go for honesty.
And originality is not going to come out of enhanced, digitized software.
If you can do it, good for you.
But there is a difference between being crafty and original.
The recording equipment must be weighed in as a whole, small to big. I'm not going to put a motor of a junkard truck into a Rolls Royce either. Though that might be fun to try once.
A cheap assed mic would'nt be good if there was all the bells and whistles to start out with.
But with the basics, a Radio Shack special will get the point across and sounds actually more homogoneos than is given credit for.
I'm sure you know what you are talking about, but we are all in our own realm with it.
The only mic I played around with previous to the net was a pre-net one made by Roland.
But the computer is a different animal with that.
Yet I am still kind of stuck into the old convention with it.
As much as I may try to update.
I don't want to be a Rolls Royce, just a reliable Chrysler.

Now that I have had a few minutes to analyze this, I would like to get around to the question why there is'nt a battle board here.
And one to where people could vote on the best performer without knowing who they are ahead of time, whatever they play, including their voice.

Jim would be my odds on favorite for vocals to get taken on in the finals by an unseasoned amatuer.
But that's only a prediction.

I don't know if anyone here would like to get in a battle board.
That 14 year old sometimes screams out in me.

Matt I do not know about you but I like most folk want to sound my best on any recording I make. That entails learning the craft and buying decent gear and knowing how to use it. If you are happy with a radio shack mic plugged into an old tape recorder then fine. You have a PC but do not know how to record with it then fine. If you do not want to listen to good advice not just from me but from others who are all trying to help fine.

And that is fine, Big Jim!
I can note and appreciate advice without settling on that advice.
The little I have learned about soundcards and .wav software has been not only through trial and error, but also looking at the threads.

I did'nt intend on taking up the thread with my lack of knowledge.
It is just that even recordings on the net from professional singers sounds like a bad experiment I had with an old karaoke machine.
Cheap or not cheap is'nt the object to me.
The closest I could find to a sound I like have come from mics designed for a PA.
I have a list of some good ones you mentioned, as well as some others.
I have an interface with not much of a soundboard, though I have made adjustments with it.
Even a singers mic of the lowest impedence can overtake my sound or get drowned out in it if I am not careful.
I had to check and check twice to see what works best.
It is not that I don't accept advice, but I have had to study things on my own.
We all hear things differently, and maybe I am being too picky for what my recordings are worth. But if I want to get past just plugging in and playing, I need personally to move in that snails pace.

I just bought a MXL V63M condenser mic ($49) with an ACT Tube MP Studio pre-amp ($29) and I must say it beats the pants off of my SM58 for recording acoustic guitar/vocals. I have a funny feeling, though, that the pre-amp might work great with the SM58. Decidedly low end stuff, but more than adequate for my recording needs.

Kevin

I've always had my trusty SM58...but for recording, the SM57 would be an improvement. After all these years, it seems they both remain the best of the cheap, as far as I can hear and read.

But I look forward to stepping up to the next level.

Lyle most folk would use an SM

Lyle most folk would use an SM57/58 or similar spec mic for mostly live work.
These mics by industry standards are not cheap they are top of the range in their own particular area of the field. Mics can cost a few bucks to a few thousand it is all down to preference, budget, application, taste and if for vocals the kind of voice or perhaps genre.
What is used in a studio or for specialised applications is a whole different ball game.
Liken it to guitars. Guitarists all have their own particular fav makes and models.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It is what makes us all unique.
I once tried a really good quality condenser mic for live work. I do not know why but I just did not like the sound. I also tried a really cheap karaoke mic which actually sounded quite good till it fell apart.

When you see someone doing a live presentation (Talk or Music) on TV look at the Mic they are using and listen to the quality of the sound. They are all using some brand of Dynamic Mic. And usually the sound is first class. Sometimes a Mic or Speaker in a sound system will mask unwanted sounds and actually be much more pleasing to the ear. I have heard expensive speakers with full range that had high range tweeters that reproduced the sound all right but was very irritating with all the highs that resembled static.

I have one bit of reliable information to contribute to this thread: when Alison Krauss sings thru a Shure KSM 32 live , she sounds exactly like she does on a CD; through another mic, she doesn't.

I'm going to add to this microphone blog for two reasons: 1) I'm trapped in front of this computer for now anyway. AND 2) I subscribe to the theory that educated debate is healthy - and less educated debate can at least be educational.

As I see it, the argument isn't whether it is possible to cut a decent vocal with a microphone you can get for less than a steak at Applebees...because as most of you are already aware - this has been possible for some time. But ladies and gentlemen, Hall Of Fame golfer Bobby Jones once said that: "..there is golf, and then there is championship golf..".

Well unfortunately for most of us, there is 'major label/studio recording' and there is project studio recording. And therein lies the actual point.

Yessir. The real idea is that the majority of us (especially us project studio owners) want our sound to rival what we hear on the radio, or on our favorite recordings. Well I know I always did.

Now we who are old enough to know better, know that there are true audio engineering professionals out there as I 'speak' to you, cutting industry standard audio and media on some of the finest (and more notably - most effective) equipment available.

If it were possible to merely track all audio with a $20.00 microphone straight into any recording device, and then quickly and efficiently mix it to the standard that a major label (like say Universal), a major TV network (like for instance ESPN), or a major radio format (for example Sirius) currently adheres to....WELL then a lot more of these pro engineers would be employing only Shure SM Series, MXL, and yes even Radio Shack microphones for all of their critical recording work (to say nothing of the mic pre/compressor/eq/mixer/monitor equipment category).

The fact of the matter is, at a certain level...equipment of a higher grade of material and workmanship (yes...price point as well) - in the hands of someone with a proven track record in the field of recording and mixing, WILL be EXPONENTIALLY more likely to produce recordings that satisfy even the most discerning and demanding ears. Ears, by the way, that often are attached to those signing the bigger checks in the industry too.

If your equipment is on the lower end (Hell maybe it is the low end) of the spectrum (price-wise, material-wise, cosmetically; whatever), and it works for you in your particular realm...I'm here to say that's awesome. I envy you.

See I'm one of those obsessive/ambitious souls who always thinks that I can sound better.

And if there's a way to learn from the individuals tracking, recording, and mixing (don't get me started on mastering) today's major industry (albeit a shrinking industry) releases--then I'm game. Even if it does mean spending more money on a 'better' microphone, if not 'better' overall gear.

Now, with equipment upgrades, I do realize there will be a time when it is reduced only to my respective ability to make the best recording I can make with said equipment. But that may be where more education comes in.

See how this all comes full circle? Kinda like an omni pattern on an M149

My two sheckels...Peace,

Shajuan

I know that even though the equipment is important, it also has a lot to do with confidence and knowledge of the mic setup.
I know in the few times I was blitzed enough in a bar to do a karaoke song, feeling loose with that mic and having a knowledge in what I was singing had everything to do from a standing O to a blank stare.
In the internet medium, the moment does'nt seem to be captured as much.
Maybe technology can try to modify or imitate that.
But like everything else, it is knowledge and confidence with ones recording setup.
Some feel confidence with primitive methods to where others need all kinds of effects.
I guess it depends on our own distictive idea in what makes a valid vocal representation.

maltess,

Are you still around, and did you find a mic you lic?

You buy a mic to do a job. What mic you choose depends on cashflow, availability, what job you want it to do, how well you want the job done and how important the job is to you. The same rule applies to all my other gear.

I just bought a Sennheiser e-845, and is being shipped. For the past few practices and one gig, I had been using an e-835 that our bass player got. Before last month, I had been using a Shure SM58, as too the rest of the band. BUT WOW! At the same settings on the PA, the Sennheiser e-835 was like the Shure on steroids. Wider range, allowing more movement away from the mic in all directions. Was clearer, warmer and even more crisp, without losing the lows at all. It had much more presence, as if I had plugged into a beefed up sound system with a better sound processor, (at the same levels). I then got Roon's SM58, and holding both, went back and forth from the SM58 to the Sennheiser e-835. Same as I initially heard and thought when first talking and singing into the Sennheiser.

Roon, our guitar player, sung lead using the Sennheiser on his usual song, and he couldn't believe the difference. Same thing as happened with my voice. Maybe our voices fit the Sennheiser design better than with the Shure,,,,as all voices can have mics that are either not so good, or good for them.

He's getting one too. The 845 though, like I just got, (two models up from the 835. It's listed as having a better resistance to feedback, and more output, (Supercardioid), than the 835 used for the above test. Will give the 845 a test ride when it comes in.

John

I found the exact same thing with my Audio Technica mics versus the SM58. They needed less gain were clearer and gave less feedback. Tried several SM58 we have and they were all the same, very poor in comparison. Had an argument on this thread with someone who could not accept that anything was better or as good as "the industry standard"

The SMs are the standard, not the best, and are a good mic to have as an every day, fall back use microphone. There are lots of mics out there that are better than the SM57 or SM58, often at a better price as well.
I don't own one, nor am I planning on a purchase of any of them unless the price is a "can't refuse" price.

Do you mean you do not own one of the better and cheaper mics you refer to? or you do not own an SM.

A while back I started a thread SM58 v the rest and most folk who contributed plumped for the SM. There now all of a sudden seems to be a reversal of this opinion. Have we finally saw the light?

I had a "can't refuse" happen last night, (Thank Roon)!
I was the only bid for the Sennheiser e-845, (ebay, and waited till within the last minute to bid at 85.oo). (4 cents over,,,,but you goota live on the edge sometimes!

I got it for the starting bid price of $84.96 plus $7.99 shipping! (Wheww,,,they shaved off those four cents for me!).

Anyway, that's about 50 bucks off the discounted prices everywhere. (usually $139. on up).

Keep looking. Deals are out there often. Just need a friend like Rooney to also keep an eye out.

John if you know what you want then Ebay can save you a heck of a lot. I have bought both new and used stuff over the years and never been disapointed except when I do not win the item. Recently I have bought a Strat, a digitech V400 fx, A TC helicon M one xl, and several rare DVDs. All at rock bottom prices. Usually delivery in a couple of days.

Hey Everyone!

I have read through the thread here and outside of the bickering, there seems to be a lot of great advice. I have not viewed any further comment from Maltess but have witnessed a lot of thread hijacking, so I have decided to join the ranks, apparently you
all are a bad influence on me. LOL!!!
Anyway, my comment has to do with a mic that I bought at a local music shop in addition to a question on what is suggested for a good large diaphragm condenser mic for recording.

First, I purchased an SHS OM-V1 at my local music store for a mere $50. The reason I purchased it was because the owner hooked up the mic and let me try it through his speakers. The sounds was very even and rich. I was only speaking and quite frankly had no idea what I was looking for. Since then I have used it for home recording and have gotten a lot of positive feedback on the rich sound that it has provided. Most people ask what I am using assuming it is one of the more expensive mics. The store owner had compared the sound to a Shure Beta which was the model I had been suggested to purchase from the participants on another forum. All and all I can say that I have been happy with my purchase and continue to use it. So, if you are looking for an inexpensive, starting mic, I would highly recommend the SHS OM-V1 ... I checked and ebay has it for $60, but I am certain more savvy ebay users can commandeer a better price.

Anyway, that leads to my question. I have done some online collaboration using another "knock off" brand condenser microphone. I was very happy with it as well. Unfortunately, I was not able to use it for more than 3 months before I was lazy and left it on the mic stand and one of my children or my dogs knocked it over breaking the microphone. I honestly can not recall the name brand right now, but I was wondering if anyone had suggestions on lower cost condenser microphones since I am now in need a another one.

Well while I am at it, I might as well ask about my performance microphone. I am trying to get a band together to play out locally and perform Country music. I would like to purchase a wireless microphone for performance. Any suggestions in this area?
Part B to the above question... since I have witnessed incredible advice on this forum... are there any suggested equipment stock that I should purchase to make myself more marketable as a lead singer? What do you own, if you play out and why?

Thanks so much for reading my comment and for anyone who takes the time to reply.
Sincerely,
Jacquee Rae

Hi Jacqee You want advice on what mic and equipment to use? Having read the posts you probably know what is coming next. Have you got a budget? What type and size of venues will you be playing? What equipment do you have already? How big will your band be and will you all be sharing the PA system? The answers to these questions have a huge bearing on what advice to give.

Hey Big Jim,
Thanks for responding so quickly.
I am trying to establish a budget... if that makes sense. I want to know what I need and what to expect to spend.
I can only assume that I will be playing in small bars and taverns as I have yet to establish a band.
Right now I am looking to assemble a 4-5 piece band. The basics... drums, bass, lead guitar, possibly keys and myself.
Not sure about the PA, I assume that will depend on what equipment any or all players have.
I know that sounds a bit ambiguous, but since it is only preparation at this time, I can't express more. This is why I asked what equipment would make me more marketable as a lead singer to hopefully help me answer those questions.
Thanks again!!
J*R

OK First you will not need a huge powerful PA but you will certainly need a PA with numerous inputs. You will also need an fx unit for your voice. This can be achieved by either a powered mixer with built in fx and matching speakers or a passive mixer plus a seperate power amp and speakers. You can alternatively have a passive mixer with built in fx and just connect it straight into powered speakers these are generally called active speakers. I use top of the range gear and play largish pro venues so my stuff power wise and price wise may be out of your league.
However if you want really good quality and do not mind splashing out a bit. Mackie systems have a wide range of powered speakers and do a really good quality mixing deck with a pretty good built in fx unit there are several models differing in size ie amount of imputs you may need. Add a microphone the one you have already that you recommend will do and you are there. One tip always go for a mixer and PA that is bigger than you need. You never know when you may need more imputs for extra mics instruments etc and that little bit of extra power for the larger venue.

Mackie SRM 450 a pair retails at around $1200 ($800 on ebay)more than ample power for your needs and very light to carry. well compared to conventional speakers.
Mackie passive mixer $200 and upwards seen several on ebay
Any questions just ask.

I don't own a SM mic. I own others.