JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Where is the morality of the young people going?

I just watched a program on TV about high school teenagers. It seem in several schools all the kids were getting A's,which is unusual, so someone checked into it and it was found out that they were brow beating the teachers into giving them high grades, teachers were happy to do it because it made them look good as a teacher.It seem some colleges are doing it too.

Is it any wonder that they steal music, morality is in serious decline when people will steal what ever they can and have no remorse. One time a man's word was his bond, now you have to have it in writing in a contract so you can force him to keep his word. Since they forced God out of schools, morality is fast becoming old fashion.

I can't believe that the entire high school population is getting graded on a curve. Its got to be more of a regional thing and probably more of an urban issue. If anyone goes on to higher education with those inflated grades they'll most likely wash out.

I tend to blame adults for the morality issues. The Kids don't program the rot thats put on TV, or thats recorded on CD.

As i grow older and wiser my morality index grows too. Lead by example. Take political correctness and blend it with common sense. I think I'm trying to be optimistic.

People are so busy working, (both parents) that they can't keep their eye on the kids properly...and it's SO easy to slip and fall if you're a kid and noone is watching...Parents have a lack of energy that is not totally their fault

Who's being immoral? The adolescent whose moral compass is being formed, or the adult teacher who is willing to go along?

What's the matter with adults these days?

I think it has always been around,,,just not as broadcast. And with the population higher now,,,,there's more people in all levels of activity, or inactivity.

Go back through history and find all kinds of debactery in every civilization. Even recently here, in the 50's, (relatively recent), there were all kinds of things going on,,,,,but on the sly. Kids being abused by adults in high positions, parents being heavy drinkers, but were thought of as "just loud".

More of the same, just with bigger tools and wider known activities. Blogs, sites, a hundred news stations 24 hours a day telling of stories that were not told before, (having news at 12, 6 and 11, and just covered big event stories, with a lot of sports and weather.

People have always found ways to cheat, steal, lie, abuse, mislead, control and obtain power and position through any means possible. We just know more of them now, as as I said, the population takes the number of everyone up more and more as we grow larger.

John

Unfortunately, many of us baby boomers were way too willing to be best friends with our kids instead of fathers and mothers. Many of the kids, and now grandkids have been raised without strong leadership in the home, or subsequently in schools. We pulled both our daughters out of school when they were in grade school so that we could home school because we were very unhappy with what we saw from school administration and general behavior of students. We allowed them to return to school in Junior High School at their request. My younger daughter liked going back to school, but my older daughter absolutely hated high school mostly because there was such a lack of leadership from the administration. The things that some of the students got away with both in and out of class was ridiculous and would easily have resulted in expulsion when I was in school. She chose to finish her last couple of years at home which she succeeded in completing easily in less than a year. She is now in college and is an excellent student. The school they went to for high school is one of the best funded and highly rated in the state, so it is obvious to me that leadership, moral fiber and integrity are not for sale.

I think grading on the curve is a bad idea because no matter how excellent the class is, someone is going to get the lowest grade. I think we should measure achievement by "mastery" We set a high standard and when the students achieve it, they get an A. There is not B, C, D, E or F. When a British student "passes" his test, that means he has "mastered" the material. Wouldn't work here of course because this country is all about being better than someone else- I guess except at that push over high school. In Texas, the education system sucks so hard we have hurricanes!

Don't even get me started!!!

God was taken out of the public school in 62/63. Yes, not that long ago they still read the Bible and prayed in public school (imagine that!) If you look at statistics from that time going forward, you see the slippery slope that tends to be crashing. Lack of leadership, boundaries, morals, discipline, (in the schools and sadly in the homes). My huband and I sacrificed to put 3 boys through private school because of this very reason and because we wanted them to have the best academics coupled with being taught integrity, responsibility, self accountability, leadership, honesty, character. Of course I believe it is more incumbent of the the parents to teach this to their children than the teachers, BUT if you can reinforce it from the teachers as well you have the best of both worlds. Thankfully, it worked out for our family in a way we desired. Not using a red pen to mark scores in some school districts because "you might hurt their self esteem", give me a break!!!! Kids don't get that way by accident. Like Mike said above, what's the matter with adults today?"

Where is the morality of the young people going?
Right where we taught them to go.

People have no guts to do what needs to be done any more. We are to "civilized".

Most of what you see on TV is over-dramatized. If you don't experience something yourself, it's probably not worth getting upset about. Incidentally, TV is probably part of the problem.

TV is a big part. These kids are inundated by the current culture and that's another thing these kids are up against!

I'm with Jack and Bill..In general {not all}the baby boomers {my generation} have failed miserably on the parenting front. The latchkey/time out/ no spiritual values generation has come home to roost.

Everyone has to be equal nowadays.
I grew up with parents that grew up before the sixties.
My heart really goes out to the kids that came after that.
If we could be equal with everything than we should all be stars.
But a dishwasher could not be an air line mechanic any more than an amatuer or uncoordinated musician could play in an ensemble in a classical orchestra.
But that's the culture we live in.
No matter how uncivilized the way, we are equal.
Even to the deterement of a civilized society.
I can still remember when people were not so uptight and could not only accept, but revel in anothers difference.

In the Declaration of Independance, it said "all men are created equal," not "all men ARE equal." All men (and women) are NOT equal. Some are tall, some are short, some have particularly handsome feet. What I think that meant was that we're all human, all started out as babies, all eat and burp and fart, so we shouldn't treat other people like they're not humans or like we're "special" humans just because we have pretty feet.

I think that many young people grow up without learning to deal with challenges...without learning tenacity and work ethis...so they become very impatient and impulsive...which i think contributes to the unwillingness to work hard in school.

I am also very disturbed by the popularity of humiliation as entertainment; I think that the lack of morality comes from home, but also is fed by a constant diet of rudeness and people humiliating each other on tv, film and the internet/ the bullying in today's schools is a crisis level; the skill of thinking it is funny to make fun of someone is easily taught.

As for teachers giving in to students who feel that they have the right to negotiate grades...well....that tells me all I need to know about THAT school and district. I'm a teacher and can't imagine letting the students run the show.

Emily

Hey everyone thought I'd toss my hat in the ring.


This whole post began around the idea of kids cheating in school but I want to address another point Everette made. The fact that highschoolers are illegally downloading (stealing music)is because it's been taught to them.

Remember the boomers kid's (generation x) is already in their 30's and beyond. The Xers started the illegal downloading frenzy while in college. These high schoolers we speak of were grade-schoolers (or less) when the whole napster thing hit. But let's not harsh off on the Xers so quickly.

When the boomers were younger I seem to recall it was pretty common practice to bring a recording device to a concert (either video camera or tape recorder) to digg them crazy tunes later. What Mr. 70s era acid rocker didn't realize is that was piracy? Go figure.

So this information has been passed down over the ages of music as long as home recording has been possible. Would we the Gen Xers sue our parents for recording music off the radio when we were growing up? Not hardly. So what you’re seeing here is not a sudden slip at all. What I see is a continuance of what has come before.

I think before Metallica made a big to do about it no one really gave a lick about Napster. You wanna credit someone with the explosion of illegal download sites? Blame Metallica. It's no different than the "Peace marches of the 60s and 70s" These kids are rebelling against the establishment in their own way.

The funny thing is we are so angry with them we can't even realize we loaded the gun. All they did was pull the trigger of the loaded Gun we gave them.

Now congress and the RIAA want to step up and make this a serious crime. I understand the intent and I don't disagree with it at all. However, filling up our prison system with people who download music and films illegally; is only going to create another generation of institutionalized people who can't make it in society.

Then the only way out is doing like England did and sending them all to an island somewhere to start a new country. (No offense Australians after all America was founded in a similar way).

Ok I'll wind down a little. To make the changes work for kids who manipulate grades and download music illegally we have to focus on changing behavior not punishing it.

Some don't realize this but punishment often reinforces bad behavior. Go back to what I said about the "Peace marches of the 60s 70s). Do we really want to make a society of young people who hate everything?

That is exactly where we are headed. Think Gen Xers were bad with anger and angst to quote BTO "You aint seen nothin' yet" And remember shortly these same highschoolers will be raising the next generation.

I think it's time we all woke up realized the mistakes "we" made accept them and then do the best "we" can to help all young people. If we really want things to change "we" have to act it's "our" responsibility not theirs.
Derek

Edit

To put this in further perspective and something those who follow the bible we are "reaping" what we sowed.

He who sews the wind will reap the whirlwind, I believe we are starting to reap what was sewn by Dr.S when he wrote the book that said you should never use corporal punishment to discipline your children, while the bible says if you spare the rod you spoil the child. Children need discipline and they will push as far and as hard as they can to see if their parents care enough to punish them. Now the law of the land says you are not allowed to touch your children to punish them, why would the state interfere in how parents raises their children? I don't mean they should let parents abuse their children either.

A lot of the youth today have no respect for parents, authority of any kind, or property of others. What ever happened to the golden rule of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you?" I know that parents are a lot to blame, but don't forget we have two or three generations of children (who are now parents) that have grown up since Dr. S wrote that book. No doubt children learn from their parents, both good and bad, by example. God help the children that will be born unto this generation. I am not saying that all of the youths are bad, far from it, but the more bad apples that are in the barrel, the more the good apples are gonna get contaminated.

Exactly Em.
We taught them they didn't have to work for anything. We spoiled them. We taught them there are no consequences for your actions. Clinton committed adultery and then lied about it under oath. And received zero punishment from it. Now he makes millions a year giving speeches. He was made into a hero.
Hillary might of made him sleep on the couch for a few days, though. What a great message we sent to the kids.
Murderers spend a few years in prison and are paroled. Rape, well maybe a little jail time. But the victim usually gets treated just as bad.
Rap music glorifies murder, rape, drugs, and any other illicit behavior you can think of. And the rappers kill each other. This is what influences our kids?

We did it and now we suffer the consequences.

Kids nowadays have no respect. If they cannot respect themselves who or what can they respect. I disagree to a certain extent with Everett about corporal punishment. Kids learn by example if they are not shown love, manners, politeness, obedience, or decent morals then we parents have only ourselves to blame. The kids nowadays are given too many things too easy and expect to give nothing in return.

In every generation there are kids that get it and kids that don't. I am sure there are countless kids that you would be proud to have as your children. The over-generaliztions here are probably mostly wrong.

This is a very old discussion--the elders were having it in the scandalous 1920's, in the 1950's, probably every generation.

Don't forget, once you're a grown-up it doesn't matter how you were raised--you still have to face the consequences of your actions without help from Mom and Dad. I can't think of a time when kids were wise and trustworthy. They've always been kids...unwise, prone to poor judgment, selfish, always playing music that their parents think is a disgrace.

I think if you beat your kids, your kids just learn to beat their kids.

I don't think people are any more or less immoral than they've ever been. It's just turned into an industry now to scare us into spending money, voting, and buying books.

Adults have a moral responsibility to raise their children right. Once those kids are adults, then the responsibility to live right is theirs. Depending on government, media, business, or society in general for moral direction is...well...immoral. It's up to us, and our churches. If our kids, not the other guy's, ours, are losing their "compass" (new buzz word), then it's up to us and instead of turning to government to fix things (gee, that always works well, doesn't it?) then we need to turn to our churches.

So, if one thinks that young folks are more immoral than ever before (which I do not), then one should blame themselves and their churches.

I couldn't agree more with your last post, Mike. And I do think that another reason our current society appears to be more immoral (and, like you, I am not sure that it is) is because today's media is more prolific, pervasive and able to bring anything they choose to to the public in a heartbeat, And sensationalism plays in the media. So, you are going to hear mostly the worst and the best of situations from the media. And you are going to hear considerably more of the worst than the best because it sells.

And if one argues that much of what we see on TV and hear on the radio is crap, that is because the "people" watch and listen, otherwise there would be something else on. Who are the "people"? You , me, everyone else. And who are you me and everyone else? Society! So if our society is corrupt and/or immoral, who is to blame?

Anyone, as an individual, can say, I don't watch/listen to that crap. But what you call crap might be someone else's entertainmdent goldmine. And since what much of society watches/listens to is what some of you call crap, immoral, corrupt, indecent, etc., that means you are in a huge minority. Like it or not, we are all part of the "society" that currently exists. So if an immoral society is to blame, again, who is that...you, me and almost everyone else.

Just my thoughts.

Al

Wow...you guys are the FIRST generation in human history to think that the younger generation is doomed.

They may not be doomed but I know the ones in my family are gonna be in real trouble when all us Parents and Grandparents are dead and gone. No one will be around to bail them out any more and they will have to figure out how to survive on their own.
And considering the minimum wage jobs that are available to them I do not think they will do very well.
America will become a third world country.
It is not a morality issue. It is integrity and work ethics

I have had to go to demanding payment in advance in my little studio because the young people think nothing of using my studio and then not paying for the time. The older folks, the first thing they ask when we are done is How much do I owe you and they take out their wallet.
The young people it's Oh! I didn't know I had to pay today. Give me the CD and I will be in to pay you later.

Yeah! I kinda feel sorry for them. With this vast bubble of sage wisdom telling them what to do for their entire lives. We are living longer now-a-days so they have to put up with it that much longer. The immorality of youth was stroked by the adults that run the record companies and other media mogols. I think we will live...

Hi there

Saw this thread in the 'what's going on'' box and it intrigued me!

Adolescents don't have any morality, other than that which is imposed upon them - and morality itself is a shifting sand, dependent upon which set of codes a society (or its moral arbiters) currently works to. But the fact that the rules say you can, or (more likely) you cannot do this or that means nothing if the society itself doesn't work to those rules.

Teachers certainly don't seem to get much respect these days - but a large part of that seems to be due to the fact that kids are no longer taught, but treated as consumers of education; and the function of that education is to reach a pre-determined standard in order to pass exams. Actually learning (and being taught to teach yourself, which is the greatest aid to gaining knowledge and understanding that anyone can possess) has become irrelevant.

However, I don't think society (or at least the western capital economies) have become any more or less moral - simply less controlled. Nor is the answer to this to impose more control on society; the evidence of the rapid collapse of the eastern european bloc shows how effective that is the long run!

Human beings seem to flourish best when they experience true liberty - and when they respond to it responsibly. Encourage people to think, and refrain from moral judgment, and there is more chance that society can function without control, since each individual is equally a rational member of that society. Perhaps that's a rather a utopian idea - but if you have faith in the better part of people as a whole, then at least you have a starting point.

Interesting topic.

Dan

When I was growing up, if I did something wrong and a neighbour saw it, I would likely get his boot in my arse, then he would tell my parents and they would give me another lickin', that would make me think twice about doing something wrong. Now you dare not touch someone else's child, you might be sued, tell the parents about what they did wrong and they will not believe it and tell you to mind your own business. What ever happened to the belief that it took a village to raise a child.

Spare the rod, spoil the child. If a kid knows no one can lay a hand on them, not even their parents, what do they have to fear?They no longer have any fear or respect for the law. We've created a generation of monsters. Kids, by the time they're 15, are looking down on their parents, physically and otherwise.If a parent can't get respect from their kids when they are very young, they ain't gonna get it ever. Kids have it too easy, every thing given to them by parents trying to buy their love and respect, that will never work. Parents should be parents, not their kids best friends. Show them love, through discipline when they are very young, they will love you for it, they'll know you care enough to discipline them. Tough love is required when loved ones do wrong.

Everett
A little story along those lines.
A couple years ago my Granddaughter had a few parties here. I let the kids into my Barn where all my recording and playing equipment is set up.
A couple months later I was burglarized. They stole my computer, mixer, guitars, etc.
The following year we caught the kids that did it. Ages were 14 to 17. 5 kids involved. They had been here for the parties and were the same kids I had told were welcome here anytime to play or practice music.
They decided they would rather steal my stuff than go through the trouble of coming here to play.
I talked to one of the parents of the kids that stole the stuff.
The Lady said she didn't understand why the police and Prosecutor and I was making such a big deal out of the kids stealing a couple guitars.
I was astounded by the statement. They had stolen almost 7 thousand dollars worth of equipment that I had worked years to pay for.

The parents of these kids never questioned them as to where they got the $700.00 Guitars and $1200.00 computer and other recording equipment they were using. And they were using them openly.

My granddaughter came home with a small cassette player one day. I was all over that wanting to know where she got it. it was probably worth $30.00

It was then I began to understand what the problem was.

Interesting thread and reading!

I tend to agree with Mike and Al.

I've been continuously involved with young folks in the 18-22 age range for over 30 years now - since I was one myself, in fact

I have seen no real difference over the years in their morality, ethics, motivation or intelligence. Change their hairstyles and take their technology away and you could move them back in time 30 years and they would fit right in.

There are some differences - students today are, in general, much more tolerant of other races and religions than the average student of 30 years ago.

As for bullying in schools: When I was a kid, fistfights and bullying in school were common. Part of growing up was learning how deal with it. I don't see the situation as any worse today - it's just that we make a bigger deal of it.

On a planet of 6 billion people, you are still going to have 6000 one-in-a-million events every day. When the media focuses on those, it gives us a distorted view of others. Just my opinion of course....

Scott

HIDee Everett!

I don't entirely blame parents...OR teachers. I'd be inclined to blame The Media these days. Not only are we "treated" to all the Murders & Robberies on a Daily-Basis, we also get deluged with stories of Falling Heros...from whatever Drug or Gambling or Sobriety Issue they've succumbed to. (At least at Christmas Season, we're hearing of SOME Celebs who work for Toys for Tots, etc.) But MOST of the year it's the Same Ol' Crappola.

I don't watch many Music Videos anymore...but it's usually the same ol' Booty-Call/Flash-Cars & Bling on the Hero of The Day..when I DO accidentally catch one on Regular TV.

We USED to "Reward" "Short-Cuts" (& Murder) with lengthy prison sentences. Nowadaze it's "House-Arrest" & "Community Service" for all but the Worst Offenders..or the ones who can't Afford a Good Lawyer. There's a Double...or was it Triple..Murderer that's pushing to get his Life-without-a-parole Sentence overturned because he was a Teenager when he committed the Crime, & now, 17 years later, "He's a Different Person"...

So What? He's STILL a MURDERER, for Pete's sake! Let the Bugger serve as AN EXAMPLE, rather than "Rehabilitating" him, & MAYBE something "Morally-Uplifting" WILL come of his crimes.

The MESSAGE our kids get, continually, is "'There are SHORTCUTS' to The Good Life. DON'T work TOO Hard, 'cuz IF you're Slick-Enough you'll figure out an ANGLE that The Other Kids Haven't. The World OWES you a Living...and a Darn GOOD one, Too!" (& BECAUSE you're a KID, well, Let's Cut you a BREAK!)

Those Teachers are sure getting those "A" Students QUITE a Message there. (Some may YET grow up to be President, tho...ya never CAN tell!)

Best Wishes & a Big Guy-Hug,
Stan

I got here and started laughing. I bet I know one you're talking about!

It's pretty simple to me.

Presidents and Congressmen cheat on their spouse.
Judges tell women they can end the life of their babies.
Judges tell men they don't have to keep their ex-wife alive.
Congress creates a welfare state your handout is decided by the number of kids you have.
Preachers lie, steal, cheat and the church still takes care of them.
Churches built to glorify Jesus Christ don't believe the Bible.

It is all of this and more. I blame the legal system, which has become the barometer of ethics. How many times have you heard a leader say "we acted within the law" while defending something the majority would say was wrong?

That's very sad.

I don't think it's all young folks but I work at a university - a "Christian" university - and I worry about the majority of young folks.

Geez
This thread has made me realize how truly cynical I am.

Wow Bill that's some story about your equipment. Were the kids fined or did they receive punishment, and were you able to recoop your losses somehow???? Unbelievable what the mother said.

Wow, alot being said here. Fact is so far we've all pointed out different parts of the problem. It' global here in Trinidad & Tobago the same discussion has been raging on.

Parent of yesteryear have some responsibility to take for what they taught us, didn't teach us, lied to us about and misguided us in. But we as adults have to take responsibility for the "CHOICES" we make as adults. Even though our choice would be based on the perspective of life and issues our parents gave us the CHOICE is our not our parents.

Don't be fooled children very well know what they're doing. As a young parent just 30, I see my children try to go as far as they can knowing very well the boundaries we've set. They are 3 yrs very articulate and observant they plan to do they mischief when nobody's watching scream and shout to get their way (which they don't)trust me they are very intelligent, children know what they are up to. That's why the need guidance and direction that's as balanced as possible, and the rod does play a part in that direction. I use it as a last resort after a nice chat and warnings timeouts and the behaviour continues I used the rod it always works when applied to the buttocks. Abuse is different, it's done in rage applied anywhere with the intent of causing bodily emotional harm. Discipline develops character and helps you to make right choices more often than wrong ones Punishment reminds you of your wrong which at times is necessary otherwise we all will continue pleasing ourselves.

Because we all want to be laws unto ourselves we have the societies we live in. Everyone want to do what is right to them that's what lawlessness is! Nobody thinks through the chain effect of their actions will have on anybody else and it happens in all stratas of life Justice system accepting bribes giving soft sentences to stone criminals harsh ones to petty offences politicians lying taking bribes etc. We have created this mess because we have pushed light out of our lives and societies and when light goes .........

This topic is a hot one....I am raising two kids now in todays world and it is tough...I get told its not ok to spank my kids
but I was spanked and I turned out all right. I don't steal, cheat or lie...But i think the worst thing so far is we give too much without the kids earning it....I have friends that have an Xbox in front of each tv...how many can ya have???? each room has a phone no one has to wait their turn and everyone has their own bathroom....There is no waiting or learning patience every thing is about right "now" more is better and less sucks! I recently read that the biggest favor we could do our kids is have them feel "want" it creates drive...
True or not true but I did have "want" in my life as a kid...I got one thing for Xmas that I wanted, the rest was what my parents felt I needed, I didn't argue/or feel left out...my kids get three guarenteed things from Santa...

I don't think kids have really changed I do think parenting has changed...I'm 42 my kid sis is 23 and we are night and day...
Walmart is a dirty word for her....LOL...my parents were older and changed the way they parented....its wild really...

I do believe media has a hand in what kids believe, look at adults we go out and buy things after seeing a commercial and we have life experience, we still can get sucked in!

Oh well good thread...makes ya think....

Just so you know
Yes the kids did get some punishment.
None went to jail although one did wind up in Juvenile detention for other things. The oldest one was tried as an adult, received probation and community service and paid $1200 restitution.
The others were tried as juvenile's. Tried is the wrong word. They all pled guilty so no actual trial.
Punishment was probation and community service but restitution was limited to $125.00 each. Had something to do with state laws regarding juvenile's. And they had to write a letter of apology to me and my family. I actually only received two letters though.

And to be honest I did not want the kids to receive jail time. I did not think it was the best punishment. They would miss school and would probably be in with people that were worse than them.
I hoped probation and community service would be enough punishment.
For a couple it was but the others went on to get in more trouble. Jail time might have been better I guess.

My homeowners insurance covered the loss.

I saw a show with Bill Freeh one time. He was head of either CIA or FBI or JPF or something. He was talking about the same problem we're talking about here. He gave an interesting analogy. I don't know much about football so I don't know how accurate it is. He said at one time, most football games were played in the middle of the field but now a lot of action takes place near the sidelines--passes caught one foot from the sidelines, tackles made a foot from the sidelines, people run out of bounds, etc. He said that's happened in other areas of life too. So many of our leaders plan on the edge of the field, getting as close as they can to being out of bounds without being penalized.

I thought it was a good analogy. I don't much about Freeh. I know he was in some controversies.

Post deleted by eb

In the days before mobile phones, in fact we did not even have a house phone till I was a teenager, my parents new exactly where I was and who I was with they insisted on it. Nowadays some parents do not know or care what their offspring are up to. We occasionally overstepped the mark. If we were caught we were punished. We were grounded or we had privileges or treats withdrawn. Now kids do not have any "boundaries" to overstep and as for punishment forget it.

Much has made our youth lose a moral compass.
Whether that be the free sex movements, sick religion, whoever your nemesis.
But we have a 12 rung jury system that harkens back to the ancient Roman Empire.
It is made to be broken.
I would like a dime for how many bragged about being in a jury and falling on a false conviction with a poor person.
We seem to be going through a new aged version of the Romantic Age in Europe in the 19th century (And Europe has made big strides against it). All who has the money while the kids are treated like unwanted puppies, scurrying like mice.

If I get into this topic too much I will start sounding depressing.

When I went to school,we didn't have drug pusher on school grounds,there were no drugs to push.We never had to worry about other students bringing guns or knives to school, therefore we had no school slaughters like they have today. Teachers commanded and got respect, so did law officers, etc. If we showed disrespect to anyone, our parents were told and we got our comeupance. We knew right from wrong at an early age and knew how far we could go. They know now but they don't care because there is little fear of punishment from the law or their parents.
The law won't let you punish your children and stop trouble at an early age, later, as they get older and bigger than their parents, parents can not control them, then the law has to take over and punish them as criminals, a slap on the wrist for petty crimes only encourages them to push a little harder the next time.

The bible says "the world will wax worst and worst and then the end will come" and also "in the last days the devil will go around like a roaring loin seeking to devour because he knows his time is short". That sure sound like today.

No doubt movies and TV, plus rock and rap stars, glamorize filth, drugs, sex, etc. to the point that kids think it is normal and they want to try it. There are parents out there that set very poor examples for their kids, they curse, swear, drink excessively, etc., all in front of their kids, it's no wonder they turn out so badly. Now there may be a small percentage that act this way, but if two parents have three kids and each of them have three kids and raise them the same way, you can see what will happen three or four generations down the road.

Hi Again, Bro Everett!

I allus got a kick out of that Bumper Sticker that says "CAREFUL..I Drive Just Like YOU Do"... Guess Parenting carries the same Risks & Rewards, eh? ;-)> My 5th-Grade-Teachin' Sis couldn't WAIT to retire a year ago..said it wasn't the Kids..it was The Parents who made her job un-bearable.

Food for further thought--

Best Wishes & a Big Guy-Hug,
Stan

Notice that it really still comes back to the adults. A lot of folks are mentioning that governments have been prohibiting corporal punishment, stopping parents from beating their kids. That's because too many adults were beating their kids too severely, and of course, since the adults wouldn't stop screwing up, the government steps in and screws thing up worse. Read my story "Grandma" in the Creative Writing Forum.

The question is, "Who is responsible." A two or three year old child is responsive, but not responsible. You can't expect them to know or understand "right and wrong." Yet, that's taught...if it's not taught, why did God send Moses down the mountain with the tablets? Of course it's taught. Who teaches? Adults.

When O J Simpson got off with murder a British comedian said America has the best legal system money can buy. If it was not so true it would be funny. If there is no punishment or deterrent and murderers are hailed as heroes what message is sent to the kids.

About four or five years ago there was an A-levels grading crisis at, I believe it was Cambridge University in England, where the A-Levels exam was stolen and heavily distributed among students. The University went into an uproar and upon questioning many of the students who had a copy they revealed that they believed there was nothing intrinsically wrong with using the stolen test. The attitude was akin to the notion that a smart businessperson will use any means at all to gain an advantage, and that is just how things work. It prompted a study to explore further just how widely spread this notion had become and the results were rather disheartening.

Anyone who claims that there has not been a shift in attitudes in the past several years is living in a fantasy.

Jack,

There's been a shift in the attitude expressed by society: stealing music and/or tests are not as frowned upon; beating your children and/or wife is more frowned upon. But it's not the changing attitudes I question. It is whether or not more young people, or more people in general, are becoming immoral. I believe there's not much of a change. Very few if any people are completely "moral," observing the morays of their family, beliefs and culture. How many "good" people speed while driving, cheat on their income taxes, hide money from their spouses, and mentally abuse their children? Look at the presidential candidates, religious leaders, heads of military, pundits and philosophers...they all have their share of scandals. And, those are just the ones who got caught.

There will always be a shift in attitudes about the peripheral morays of society. Murder (not killing...murder) will probably always be considered wrong. Many if not most other things will shift as cultures changes. Some religious beliefs even change. Though the ten commandments were written in stone, literally, folks still disagree about their meaning or validity.

But, I think the morality of people remains the same. Darn few are moral.

You are correct Jack. I see drunk folk aged 18-30 on nights out misbehaving like imbeciles. They have no shame, no manners and certainly no respect. Mostly the foulmouthed girls are worse than the lads. The accepted normal behaviour nowadays would have made me cringe when I was that age.... and I am no angel.