JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Gene Simmons blames college kids for ruining music biz

I understand what Richard is saying completely and agree. I think what's puzzling Jim is Rich you stated:
I also dug Kansas (how could any musician growing up in the late 70's not like them?)

Loved Kanas by the way...So (how could any musician growing up in the 70's not like Led Zeppelin?)

I think Jim & me too lol... are curious why you dislike them Zep so much. It's odd...

The other day on Cable music on demand I put on a "Dream Theatre" video to show my wife. I didn't say much just put it on. She listens to lots of music and says my this this terrible! "It got much worse when the singer opened his mouth"

I agreed 100% then said to her these guys are top of the line players who are respected by so many musicians and have a pretty darn big fan base.
We then put on a vidoe by the nu-metal band Disturbed and it blew the doors off of Dream Theatre in both are opinions instantly.

I respect Dream Theatre's musical abilities greatly but unlike Disturbed they had No Soul They are the perfect example of that!

Led Zeppelin- is RARE they are killer musicians no doubt.... but they are LOADED with soul & GROOVE & feel & dynamics & creativity.
And they write riffs and songs that make millions of kids want to pick up instruments and play not quit. Page is the best at this over everyone and that's a big task.

One critic - wrote along the lines that Led Zeppelin was hype! and a fluke they are riding on Pages' reputation and the Success of the Yardbirds :
"All advertisement"

Page - said okay! and releases an album With no picture of the band, No title to the album. NO band name anywhere on the album cover, No single only a little old man with sticks on his back... That album was Zeppelin 4.... 28 million copies sold.
Page is also a brilliant producer... most people forget that.

Anyway it was hard back then I think Kiss used the makeup to break in to the businessand it all caught on. How else do you compete with Queen and well everyone else Lots of flambouance and makeup going on in the 70's no?
I didn't think they were as good as pop/rock stars T-Rex or Peter Frampton..
Who are not rich rich beyond belief today and as popular.. I feel that is because of Kiss's makeup & show and the loyalty of there Army who embrace that great time in there life.

I like this thread it's like going back to high school very cool!
The difference is simple - when I watck Zeppelin perform "In My Time Of Dying" at Earls Court now on dvd.
I say .. I can't believe that they ever better then I even thought they were when i was a child

The only conclusion & guess for me as to why Rich would dislike Zeppelin has got to have something to do with Robert Plant? lol.... maybe?

Peace out!

Especially the solo on "Working Man"

It should be posted at every Registars Offce at every College that illegal downloading of music is a crime punishible by law. Every student should be required to sign a form on that subject as a requirment to enter college. It will probably fly like a Lead Balloon or maybe a Lead Zeppelin but there are there for an education, aren't they?

Funny post, Mike! When I was in school in the 70's, we really didn't argue about Zeppelin vs Rush vs KISS vs Kansas...no there was only one rivalry I recall...and it had something to do with that T-shirt that said DISCO SUCKS!

Oddly enough, I really dig Disco now.

But you know, Zeppelin just BUGS some people. A lot of people, actually. Rush and Kansas always bugged me, still do. But I appreciate them (especially since Geddy played a Rick).

But this really is an old guys' conversation, isn't it? :O

Mike about summed up my feelings. I agree with Lyle there is a place for disco. Manys a time we would go to a disco chasing nice girls. The ugly sweaty ones usually went to rock concerts.
I met my wife at a disco back in 75.

Yeah, this is turning into a high school reunion type thing. LOL.

When I was in high school I was a heavy metal freaking IDIOT. While I stood with my buddies in the back of the gym because we were too cool to dance, the popular boys were up there dancing (badly) with the girls. GOD was I stupid. I'd like to go back to high school and kick my OWN ass!

To attempt to help steer this thread back on topic, it's nice to think that we could advertise more that illegal downloading is, um, illegal, but the genie is already out of the bottle. Not sure if it can ever be put back in.

I think the deal now is to just write the best music you can and to try to gain fans who WANT to support you and your music. There's nothing quite like selling out of CD's - makes you want to work on your songwriting that much harder...

Don't think it would work, Ray. It's not that they don't know. It's that they don't care.

What I think would work is that, rather than fine people caught downloading illegally, they should place them in a room and play "Beth" for four days straight. Reckon that would teach them

Scott

Scott I like your idea... Though I think "Mandy" might work better!
Derek

Ooohhh.... I might recommend "I Write The Songs" instead of Mandy. Another option might be "You Light Up My Life," or perhaps... "Feelings." Yeah, "Feelings" has got my vote.

Barry did have a tendency to write catchy yet annoying songs, didn't he? Nick Lowe once said that "pop songwriter" is only one step above "jingle writer." And Nick Lowe is a pop songwriter by his own definition, though I wish the pop songwriters of today were as good as Nick Lowe...

"I write the sooongs that make the whooole world siiing...."

I changed my mind. "I Write The Songs" would be the one...

Hey Richard

Yup his and Niel Diamonds greatest hits played non stop three days straight. That would modify any behavior I think I could write that annoying... if I was under the influence of Oregano and tab soda lol. *we may be on to something here RIAA you listening?
Derek

We can give Gene a hard time, but...
...Wonder if Neil ever worked this out of his system?

Wow Lyle

That looks like Gene rofl. I never realized that Neil went through a 70s Elvis period rofl. Thanks for that pic it was priceless!
Derek

Look up Lester Bangs' critical appraisal of this album back in, I think, 1973...and you will REALLY ROTFLYAO...

Well, hey, nevermind...I found it. Lester always cracked me up.

http://www.superseventies.com/spdiamondneil2.html

Lyle

Your awesome man thanks for posting the link. Yup ole Neil just a workin it an a jerkin it. Now I know why I never cared for Rolling Stoned magazine rofl
Derek

Alright, this thread has REALLY veered off the track!

It's an internet disease called TD: Thread Drift.

Ohh that don't sound good lyle might have to start working on a cure!
Derek

I do not care what anybody says that live Hot August Night album was Awsome. Over thirty years on I listened to it the other day still fresh.

Big Jim, You gotta hear his newest album. I think it's called 12 , or 12 Songs. The guy can write. I always liked Neil Diamond, though his "Jazz Singer" was a flop. "Love on the rocks, aint' no surprise". Ben

Ok I guess we could put the focus back on manillow. At the Copa Cabana anyone?
Derek

Hey, I'm a big fan too. But that album cover always cracked me up.

Now come on people who could sit and listen to love on the rocks for three days straight? (Then again most songs would get old before then lol) But really I give Neil his props he wasn't just a lounge singer. Bur I don't really see now looking back what all the fuss was about?
Derek

Well,
My fix to illegal downloading has been that the Record Labels issue all new music on vinyl with a certificate enclosed that could be sent in for the CD in one year.

Maybe for those that supply the files, A. Hang them from the nearest tree, Or B. Make them clean out the Cattle barns for a year at a dairy farm. Heck, their choice.

For those that receive the files, a trip to the woodshead, or, cleaning out the cattle barns at a dairy farm for a year.

C. Actually having all college students signing a form that illegal downloading music is a crime would probably help quite a bit. Some are not aware but that would leave no doubt that they now know.

Hmm Ray intersting points though I have my own thoughts. I would have those supplying the files pickup garbage off the freeway with by orange jackets that say I Illegaly supplied music. Then for the actual downloaders. Make em do communtiy service by volenteering in rest homes by cleaning out bed pans! Now can anyone else think of any other creative punishements?
Derek

Lyle back in those days we all looked like that and some of us looked even worse. Unfortunately all the photos of me got lost.

that neil diamond record is great! and he's aged as a performer as all of us have. he's a great songwriter period! now barry? i'm not so sure. he writes 2 verses sings them each twice then modulates up a whole step and does it again for a total of 3 minutes. no talent there.. he sucks!

Ok then Barney

It's official Barry Manillow shall be the punishment and the song shall be I write the songs. To make it even worse the person shall also have to watch reruns of Max Headroom and read the close captioning. If the subjects eyes are to close for some strange reason a mild electric shock will be sent through the subjects armpits. As an alternative Abba's Dancing queen will be substituted and old New Kids on the Block Videos. There will that work?
Derek

Actually, Bruce Johnston of The Beach Boys wrote "I write the Songs" {I'm SUCH a know-it-all!}

Indeed! He wrote it about Brian Wilson.

And we forgive them.

On Barry Manilow's first album, to my surprise, he probably could have made a fairly impressive rocker.
But he went the pop's balladeer route.
No one else sounds like him either.
In that way, he may be the ballsiest.
But when you have heard him once, it gets irritating if heard soon after.
So that would make the best torture.

As far as Neil Diamond goes, my mother spun his records all the time when I was a kid.
I did'nt really get him at first, but fell in love with his music as I grew older.
Some musicians seem to be more of a grower musician that would be more of a treat upon listen.

Kiss in a sense is like a metal version of Barry.
Irritating if heard too much at once, but I have to listen to it again eventually.
The irritation oddly seems to be part of what makes it great.

OK, to comment on the Neil Diamond thing. I was born in 65 so the three records that I heard growing up in our house most were the soundtrack to West Side Story, the soundtrack to The Sound of Music, the soundtrack to Jesus Christ Superstar (that one was on 8 track,) and a double live Neil Diamond record. It's a wonder I didn't grow up to write show tunes. I didn't like or dislike Neil as a kid - it was just there. I didn't much care for The Sound of Music, nor West Side Story (aside from Somewhere, which has a chilling melody.) But I dug Jesus Christ Superstar - it was like rock and jazz.

I really don't think Neil is all that good or bad. He's certainly had a great career, sold millions of records, and sounds like no one else. Barry Manilow, though... to me, his music (whether or not he wrote it) always seemed like a big mouth full of maple syrup. His voice was half the problem. If Alice Cooper had sung Mandy, I probably would have liked it.

Wow, this thread is REALLY veering off the path!

Hey Bob

You mentioned that before. Care to set it back on the tracks again? I would but I seem to have totally forgotten what it was about?
Derek

If I may take the libertry to veer back on track with the topic.
Gene Simmons has been called greedy for making his positions public.
Which in itself may not be a completely bad thing.
I think it shows something that he took the unpopular route of mentioning that in our increasingly defensive culture.
Where I disagree is to where colleges and some hackers online have torn apart the music business.
The alt scene basically came about because of metal fans that grew tired of the then current scene that they felt became very derivative and samey.
All about money.
If anything, I think the net and college radio opened up the music scene and broadened the horizons.

I am a big fan of alternative mediums to get heard.
I would'nt want to just have a few select choices to listen to.

But our current info scene is just like any other beast that has come along in music.
Becoming stagnent over a certain time to be replaced by another beast.
The way things are going now, the ipod and mp3 players are going to replace the cd.
And the Napster junkies will probably be talking of the good old days and how the new medium has depleted music.

DONT WORRY GENE

you got a steady gig as a ozzy osbourne impersonator whenever you want it....course you will have to finally take off that makeup after all these years.........i suggest a little tool called THE DREMEL..........in your case it will be like a skin peel.......

TOM

Actually, Gene has a helluva lot more buisness sense {not to mention WAY more brain cells} than Ozzy {thats why he has Sharon} and I do believe KISS already took off their make-up in the 80's.

So what do you really think about Gene Tom?

The problem with Gene Simmons is simple. Great marketing, promo, and sales techniques....... crap product.

One man's crap is another man's treasure!

Kiss holds a mass cult following to this day and probably just about every hard rock act under the sun was influenced by them.
Crap product - not by a long shot.
Even Kiss's detractors stumble into their influence somewhere.
Musical ingenuity in rock never had anything that much to do with tecnical talent to begin with, but sound and getting people to continually want to hear that sound.
And Kiss's music has stood out far past their lunch boxes and makeup job.
Good is good, no matter how you knock it.