JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum The Most Important Film In American History? Maybe

Ben,
I like a good lind as much as others, but a quik rundown with a link would even be better (for those of us with limited time).

Brian,
I generally give an 8 hour rule when commenting on subject that make me hot, but I do make some acceptions...

"What does immegration have to do with this subject (paraphrase).
Have you heard of the tearm "ancor baby"?

Kaboom, Chill dude. I went through alot of dumpsters to get the memory (RAM) that I have on this computer. I actually cannabalised just to have the memory to keep this going. Just push the BACK button. I thought you liked Walter Williams. Ben

Ben,
Hahahah.. I was on my dad's (75 years old.. my dad that is) computer, and it was soooo slow. I'm probably going to have to go dumpster diving for RAM for that one....

Just exactly who is Walter williams?

I am not lying. I found RAM in a dumpster. I saw a computer in a dumpster, pulled it out and jerked the RAM modules out of it . Brought it home and increased the power of my PC. Just like that. It would have cost me at least $80 to buy it new. I guess I have no dignity, but I DO have a fast computer. By the way, I also play tenor sax, maybe not as good as you , but I love to play sax. Ben

Oh dude, the sax has got to be the baddest instument in the world (with the exception of the soprano)! If guitarist had a clue....

Arrrrgh, I can't help myself. I'm going to contribute to thread drift and I can't help it....

To those against amnesty for illegals: Please do the following thought experiment. Imagine that you need a new driveway and the companies you call quote you $1000. Except for one company - which quotes you half of that. You find out this company is able to work cheaper because it hires illegals.

Please take this seriously and don't answer me but be honest with yourself. Think about what you could do with that $500 that you wouldn't have to spend if you hire the company that hires illegals. Would you go with them?

Kaboom, I believe a guy like you would pay the higher price just on principle. So this is NOT directed at you - you just got me going

I also believe you would be in the small minority.

To anyone who concluded they would hire the company that came in with the low bid. I have no problem with you - free enterprise at work. Only, would you PLEASE SHUT UP about the problem with illegals?

Thank you

The problem is not the illegals. And its not the government. It's us......

If American citizens would not hire them, we wouldn't need amnesty or a fence - they would go home.

Sorry for the thread drift....

Scott

Scott, you are full of yourself... I cannot believe that you are, by any strech of my imagination, contributing to the whole, as I see it.

I might be, Kaboom. Or, it could just be late....

As far as contributions - I contribute to the solution by not contributing to the problem....at least that I know of

Gotta hit the sack....

Scott

Scott, I would redo my own driveway thank you. Us Americans are capable of doing our own work. Here's the deal, go to Home Depot and get a price of how much it would cost to have a contractor redo your driveway. Let's say $1000. Now let's find out exactaly what they do to redo your driveway. What if we find out that they only resurface your driveway. Can't we do that our selve's? OK you do not want to do the work. I understand that. The truth is that the Co. will charge you for labor that may have not even occured. What could you lose by going to Home Depot , buying the same materials that your so called Co. would have bought and doing it yourself? A little sweat off your brow. Dont be a wimp. As far as illeagles go, do you really want them to protect your family? We may be going there. Ben

Scott,
Every one must rest at some point...
As long as you do not contribute to the problem... there inlies the conondrum.... Who is right, and who is wrong. Only in the end will the truth be told.........

Folks, don't get me wrong. I was bred on the border, born on the border, and raised on the border. I Alone fully understad the full ramifications on my statements, and beliefes. I have already seen many wrongs, but yet I have not seen any of the rights...

I also fully under stand that many may not follow my worries and conserns. That is alright by me.

But you have to under stand I do know the total cost of everything that has to so with us as a sociaty as a whole.

I do my best to attempt to conceder that in my equation, as I unerstand it...

LOL, I should know when to keep my mouth shut. Actually, I would do my own driveway, Ben...

It was just a thought experiment.

My point is simply this - if citizens of the U.S. did not hire illegals, they would not be here.

So let's forget roof, driveways and protecting families and consider that single point.

"If we did not hire them, they would not be here." Do you agree or disagree with this?

If you disagree, please say why. I might be missing something.

See ya
Scott

Kaboom, I got to play a baritone sax in high school. During the days of Ike and Tina's "Proud Mary" It was so cool. How much does a baritone sax cost now days?

I agree... Why not hire more cheeply?
The reason are multi fold...
Is the job being done right... you'd be suprised! Once again, time will tell, the question is will it be too late
I would give an exacing account, but by law. and a great deal of penalties (monitarily) I cannot.

Ben,
I could not possibly imagine how much a quallity barri would cost today...
Never played one... I am currently a smoker and would not attempt such a lofty goal.

Scott, I agree, however, they are hired because they are willing to work. It is unfortunate that we as Americans have decided that many jobs are beneath us, compounded by a welfare system that rewards people not to work. The root problem is not why are they here, but why are they being hired.

Just speaking from memory but I founnd the baritone sax easier to play than the alto or soprano, maybe because you don't blow as hard to get the bass notes.

Ben,
I liked the alto... seemed to breathe ok to me, But the tennor was like a freash breath of air.. I've seen those bari players a huffing an a puffin.. seeemed like a whole lot of work to me...

Folks, I'm a realist. I realise all that is realistic going on around me at all times...

Health care could be resolved instantainiously.
Look at Brad and Anjolie.. they adopt forien, yet I see 1500 locals looking for a home
Look at all the foriegn aid.. but people in New Orliens go on living like thier in a third world country. No Nothin!!!!
Look at Bill Gates. Most of you have contributed to his wealth. He gives it away to others. Do you realise that his weath equates to more than 40000 American milianairs....
Look at what we are giving away to out neighbors to the south.. uncountable.
We complain, we shout at the nurce aid at the price, and not to mention, the wait.
Look at the real problem...
You might find the actual sum to the equation.

I had this relative that took deep breaths each day from being a heavy smoker, stating that that would help clear out the lungs.
Doing that before bed time.
Vicks was also a big thing with colds.
Strangely, I use Vicks vapor rub and apply it to my head with headaches.
I am a true northerner and get headaches in hot weather.
If the temperature is above 70.
The cooling sensation with Vicks Vapor rub seems to alleviate headaches.
But anyway, I tried the deep breath before bedtime approrach.
I have noticed that just after a few months, I can carry a note longer singing and can breath into a harmonica better.
Even though I still hav'nt mastered a harmonica.

These wind instruments are good for cleaning out bad air also.

Matt

Matt,
You have got to totally know how much I'm laughing at you post just about now... The low here is 95.... in the shade of the moon!

BTW I would never attempt a bastard of an instument as a harmonica (just kidding). I tend to go for a penney whistle (when the dog allows)

From listening to G 'N' R with Axl's harmonica to graduating to jazz rock hybrids like Chicago, I would love to tackle all the horn instruments I can.
But I am not going to embarass myself any further.

I think of that old fogerty on the porch imagining he was in that jug band with the harmonica.

Can't do it like that, but it's fun to imagine.
LOL!

Matt

actually,
I use a wind midi controller (yamaha WX5) played through a acustic tone generater (yamaha VL-70-m), to emulate just about any wind (and other) instuments... kinda cool, jet it still leaves me wanting. BTW, I set the wind midi controller to the exacting standards of a sax, with some exeptions...

Kaboom, I think that your deal is that you never blew threw a baritone. It is so cool. You control all bass with it. It is such an expensive costing instrunent though.

I was always curious bout the bari... Just never had the balls. Plus bass parts always seem boring... yeah I know.. It's the driving force. The thing is I loved the tenor so much comming off the alto, that the bari put a bit of fear in me. That low bflat has got to just rock all parts of the body (the sax and yours).

Ben I read it. He's a reasonable man and he needs to be sitting around the think tank table that is set up to help solve the health care crisis. I read most of the interview but this part really got my attention.

I once asked a friend and associate of mine, Nobel Laureate Friedrich Hayek, if he could write a law that would help the country the most, what would that law be? And he said, “Very simple: You should have a law that Congress cannot do for one American what it does not do for all Americans.” He gave me the example that if Congress pays some people not to raise pigs or grow wheat, they ought to pay every American not to raise pigs or grow wheat.

..Walter E Williams

Ah, a elegant remedy to the special interest rampage on Capitol Hill! Now how do you get these Jack Asses to pass it?

When insurance companies are involved,prices go up,I wonder why.

With car insurance,most companies give you lower rates if you agree with higher deductible,the higher the deductible the lower the rate.Now if you have a fender bender and have to make a claim against your insurance,you first have to pay the deductible and the insurance company pays the rest.Only thing is if you make a claim against the insurance company,up goes your rates for the next few years.So what happens here where I live,if you have a fender bender and you are not sure what the cost will be to repair it,we go to a repair shop for an estimate,the first thing they ask you,is this an insurance job or are you paying out of pocket.If you say insurance,the price is $2000.00,if you say you are paying,the price is now $1000.00. If you have a $500.00 deductible,it is better to pay for it yourself,because the increase in rates will, over a few years, cost you more than what you saved by going the insurance way.

Why does body repair shops double the charge to the insurance company compared to what they would charge you?Could it be that insurance companies are slow paying and you will pay cash.Could it be insurance companies will beat their asking price down,so they have to double their charge to get what they actually need. Who knows for sure,but insurance companies win either way.Insurance is only good if you have a serious accident.

Could the same thing be happening with your health care insurance?Inflated hospital prices to get what they need in the first place,while those that pay cash can get a better price than the insured people, plus the health care provider get their money faster and with more profit than what they would get from the insurance company.Something to think about.

Sam, You should hear him speak. He makes you think, "That is so simple of an explanation why didn't I think of that?" Ben

Man Is this post still going? Some of you guys are really "Sicko"
I am aginst Universal Health Care unless it is returned to the States and each State decides if they want it or not and collect the money and disburse the payments.

There is a lot of Graft and Corruption in the Federal System. At least each state would be able to oversee it better.

Everett: When you have a "Fender Bender" and go to a body shop they will give you an estimate. Then the insurance adjuster goes in and sets the final cost. Usually the Body Shop will estimate a high cost but that isn't the final cost. I know. I've been there on occasion.

Michael Borges made a good post on the last page. Most likely returning the health system to Private Enterprise will lower the cost in most cases.

States as well as Federal laws do regulate the system so there isn't as much Greed as you may think. Every one wants to make a little more. Don't You?

I doubt that the US is 37th on the quality list. We have a Free Press and they report much more than may happen in other countries. And "Sicko" has been examined by a lot of knowledgable
people and the flaws in the movie.

It seems that the states would be better for making that decesion and some already have in the form of an unfunded mandate. Take Mass., they now require health ins. the same as most states require car ins. but I have read the downsides of this from people who live there. You may have catistropic ins. with a high deductible but at least your covered for unforseen problems in the future. As far as the out of pocket cost, I would have to leave it to people who live there to chime in on. The problem is that it is forced upon you by the state and that goes back to the heavy hand of govt. that we so deeply despise.
The problem remains for people who are too poor or unable to buy ins. because they are illegal. I see these people in Walmart buying $100 Nike shoes. Most do not know how to budget their money, and live from paycheck to paycheck. That is due to plain and simple ignorance. That $100 that they just paid for shoes could go toward an ins. payment but they want bells and whistles so screw ins. payments. Let people like me and you pay it. The majority of their paycheck goes back to Mexico or Guatamala.

Ray,

So you are FOR making sure everyone has universal health care, you simply want the States to pay for it as your solution, not the federal government right?

Brian

Here's a clip from Richard Jeni (yeah, the guy who off'd himself) about politics. I think it pretty well sums it all up.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rhw8DFSGzvg

Brian

As Dr. Williams points out, the Bill Of Rights is and was never intended to be a list of OUR rights rather it is intended to be a roadmap of things that the government cannot do to violate an individual. The Bill Of Rights does not tell us what our rights are but tells the government what they are NOT allowed to do. I wish this present 16% approval rating congress would take it out and read it some time.

I agree with Ray on the idea that it should be up to the individual states to decide. Each state has differing circumstances. If a state, for example, with a lot of industry (are there any left?) has concurrently greater revenue from that industry and greater health hazards from the same, shouldn't that state bear the cost?

Also, I like Brian's idea of providing catastrophic care. When I first read that, I thought he meant covering catastrophic events, such as floods, earthquakes, etc., but now I see he meant individual catastrophic HEALTH events. This was what I was getting at by suggesting that such programs could begin by targeting certain health problems. Still, I'd leave it up to the individual states. If you find a particular state has a greater percentage of a certain health problem, then that state should target it. People closer to the problem are better suited to fix it than people further away. Some guy in Washington shouldn't be making decisions that affect someone's problem unique to Arizona. Folks in Mississippi shouldn't have to pay for bullet wounds in California. Folks in California shouldn't have to pay for tick bites in Tennessee. Besides, I'd like to know what folks think that the Federal Government does well? What do they do a good job with? Do you trust congress? Do you trust them with your health?

Again, I'd suggest a voluntary "safety net" program, offered to citizens who agree to practice a healthy lifestyle as defined by the local government provider. I hate to say it, but some folks are suicidal. I know one fellow who, when diagnosed with heart disease, started smoking crack. Another fellow who smokes cigarettes, lives on fast food candy and ice cream, and is a classic "couch potato" because he is bored with life. People like these should not be enabled with free emergency care. I'd suggest mandatory counseling and monitoring as a prerequisite for any "free" health care.

If you are given a grant from a government entity for some project, and then you spend the money on something else, it is fraud. I see this as the precedent and theory for there being such a prerequisite to health care. If the government (meaning the citizens) provide health care, then the recipients ought not to waste it.

Finally, If such programs are put in place by the state, I'd like to see vouchers supplied per/capita for those who opt to use private medical services.

All the Best,
Mike

It's easy to take shots at the Feds. I wonder, however, if the private sector, taking over everything the government does, would be better? Maybe. But maybe not. The private sector controls the Toll Way on Highway 90 going across the top of Indiana and they do a terrible job. The roads are falling apart. The toll rates keep going up. That's one tiny examples. But I am curious as to the success of government controlled sectors that went private company controlled? Anyone have details?

I think most of us would agree that Katrina exposed Federal, State and Local governments at their absolute collective worst. Would a completely private system, run by Haliburton or Wal-Mart or whoever, have done that better? If the private insurance system are allowed to exclude people in insurance programs, don't you think they'd do the same for low income areas of New Orleans as well? And if they must take and support everyone, wouldn't they essentially become a totally privately controlled government? (Even worse than it is now?).

I am just putting that out there for contemplation.

Brian

The problem is that people are not used to paying for health ins. out of their own pocket. They feel that someone else should do that for them. If you buy car ins. than what's the difference? You will find out when you start getting calls from collectors. So Joe Couch Potato wants to sit around and drink beer and Pepsi all day and live a sedentary life style. If he bought his own ins. I wouldn't give a damn. When the govt. starts pulling my wallet out of my pocket to pay for Joe Couch Potato's health problems then we have a problem and that is the crux of this whole thread. Ben

I don't trust any of them. I'd rather see it administered by the states because it gives greater weight to specific local problems and requires fewer ticked-off folks to throw the bums out.

At the fed level, issues specific to a rural state like Utah get ignored with the rush to supply needs of a more populated state like Illinois or California.

Neither do I trust corporations. It's not in their nature to operate social programs. It causes both the social programs and their private programs to suffer.

Nor do I trust states...but I'm pretty sure it's easier for the populace to hold their feet to the fire.

Ben,

Does this then mean, you'd be for health insurance that anyone can not be turned down for, only so long as the individual pays for it?

Jody, Someone has to pay for it. It's that simple.I don't know if health insurance that no one can be turned down for exists. We are looking for answers and that is the reason that Brian wanted to bring this discussion to a civil level. I can't solve the worlds problems by sitting at this computer but I can try to come to a consensus by chatting with you and others about it and maybe it will spark awarness in others to use their rescources to make money and pay for their personal problems first as in buying health insurance so someone else doesn't have to pay your bills. I am aware that some people have prexisting problems that an insurance co. would not touch. Let's figure that out before we challange someone on a text that was written and not fully understood because it was a text. If we were talking face to face it would be different.Ben

Here is what it all boils down to in MY opinion. Brian, do you really want the government to take care of you in a health care crisis? Look at what they did with Walter Reed hospital. Buerercrats don't care about you. They work for the government and have no one to answer to. The private sector HAS people to answer to. If a hospital in the private sector does bad than they simply go out of buisness.If a govt. hospital does bad than it's too bad your stuck with them. Ben

This thread is getting a little fragmented- I think I even heard a sax solo but back to verse 2- health care and illegal immigration- what do they have in common.

I made this comment on another thread but I would like to repeat this. I took my 17-year-old daughter to the Cooks medical Center emergency room about a month ago for an eye injury. She was trying to open the gate to a swimming pool when a bungee chord whipped her in the eye. She was crying and couldn't open her eye. I live 2 miles from Hugley Medical center but opted to take her to Cooks Medical Center, famous for the best children's hospital in Texas.

When I got there the whole place was filled with Hispanic folks and sick babies. Nobody was speaking English. By the time we checked in, my daughter could open her eye and I could still she still had it so I lightened up a bit and just had a good look around. I saw perhaps 30 or 40 little kids and babies. Every one was of Hispanic persuasion and virtually all the conversation was in Spanish.

Remarkably my daughter was seen pretty quickly because the place was very well run. We got a bracelet for in the first 5 minutes, saw a nurse in 10 minutes then waited 1/2 hour to see a vision specialist and then another 1/2 to see the doctor.

When I finally got to talk to a doctor about all the folks in the emergency room, I said, "All these folks are using the emergency room for routine office visits aren't they?" He said yes and there is nothing anyone at the hospital can do because according to law (state or federal I forgot to ask) they cannot refuse to see them. So clearly we are all paying dearly for illegal emigration and that is reflected in the outrageous cost of hospital treatment. Of course, the folks in the emergency room paid noting. I paid my $150 copay and God only knows what my insurance paid but we all pay for the kids in that room.

So what solution can I offer? Based on this experience, I would have to say that part of the health care solution must be found in addressing the issue of paying for these illegals. So we could start with this: How about a super secure ID system that is applied to hiring? Even if it has to be eye scan or DNA match. We have be able to hold folks who hire illegals accountable for doing so- but without a lock tight security ID, they can, as they have done in the past, claim ignorance. I hired a guy to do my concrete porch. He was white and a contractor but he went down town to a workpool and got theses Mexican (great hard working guys by the way) and paid them $6 bucks an hours and bought them lunch. What if that contractor had been required to pay a health care deposit for all those guys and there families- now what would it cost him to hire them?

I have zero animosity toward the Mexican workers and all 40 kids in the emergency room. Each little child is a precious child of God and just as precious to their father as my child is precious to me. They are not the problem and never have been. The magnanimous solution is not a great wall that will become as infamous as the Berlin Wall was, but checks and cross checks at the Work Place- and then we need to export our best and brightest ideas to Mexico. Bill Gates, go down there and build the biggest smartest medical college in the world and maybe they won't try to come here. Hey right now, if I was a Mexican with a child with a brain tumor, I would get across the border as fast as I could and find the best medical center I could and wait with my daughter in my lap in the emergency room.

My daughter was fine by the way. The irony was that the swimming pool with the lousy bungee chord latch belonged to our friend Lisa, who is a doctor at Cooks Medical Center.

Sam, Mexico has a currupt political system. There is no middle class in Mexico. That country is ruled by millionairs and billionairs, with nothing in between.Sure the poor come over here for a better life. But the problem is that they send their money back to Mexico and live off of our "welfare" system. They seem to think that America belongs to them because we are in the same hemisphere. We fought the Alamo once but that does not seem to register with some. Why don't we just make them a territory and tax the hell out of those greedy bastards. Ben

Brian,
I believe I already answered your question as to how I could approve Universal Health care.
There is no doubt illegal immigrants are severely straining a lot of local tax bases and I think I have heard of Hospitials closeing for that very reason.

The American people have spoken Loud and Clear of what they want done with the illegals. Most if it is economics, a lessor issue is crime.

Simply put, if the illegals stay here until they can no longer work they are going to go to the local welfare office and seek assistance to live. They are going to have no retirement to speak of. And the local taxpayer is going to foot the bill. If you examine the cost of livung even today a lot of Americans struggle. And that goes for health care as well.

The U.S. can't Baby Sit the world. Some business' may be getting cheap labour now but we will all be paying for it in the end. If they are going to be here they need to be paid a fair wage and pay taxes the same a citizen so they will contribute to the services they are getting for free now.

Ray, When an illegal gets a job in the US with even a phoney SSN they are paying taxes via FICA and SSA. That is money that they do not take home. My question is where is that money going.Since there is not a "Lock Box" as Al Gore put it than who actually gets that money. It goes into the general fund. Ben

Hey Ben,
Just wanted to drop a line thanking you for linking to my piece. My Doctor, Miguel Pasquel-Perez escaped to the U.S. from Cuba and he says the exact same thing about Cuban Medicine that your implying. Thanks also for saying that my review was VERY fair, that's what I'm always trying to do and it's nice to see someone recognized it.

Hey Jodie,
I just wanted to take the time to respond to some of your statements about me and to clear up some of your misconceptions. Without getting too into it, I was told the copy I received was from an early release that someone, (M.M.?) released to create a buzz. I just like to give the impression I'm a bit of a bad guy. As far as being disorganized; come-on, we're at least as organized as "The View" or any of the Sunday morning talking heads who do nothing but yell over each other.....and we do it with FAR less funding. I'll admit though to being childish. As John Mellencamp so eloquently stated; "Growing up leads to growing old and then to dying" and I'm just not ready yet. I don't remember saying that Michael Moore was "Lying" specifically, however, deceit is a form of lying, and I do think he did that. I think that what I said, (and I know it's what I meant), is that he relied too heavily on exampling and didn't give enough stats. And for the record; I don't like generalities, especially when applied to a group of people. Now, you didn't like that we all let our opinion of Michael Moore show, but isn't that the kind of honesty you would hope to get from your reviewers? Since everyone has their bias, I think your better off knowing what they are up-front...agreed? As for why you can't find my name and I hide behind a pseudonym. I work at a major University where having an even mildly conservative point of view gets you fired. Oh, they won't say that's why, but every openly conservative professor that we have ever had was shown the door. I fail to see what that has to do with free speech and I have a lot of good company in using a peudonym; Ben Franklin,(Silence Dogood) and Samuel Clemens,(Mark Twain) to name a few....but I guess they must lack credibility also. Finally, some of the things that WERE NOT in Mike's film were the most reveiling. For instance; That France's disorganized Health care system was responsible for killing 14,800 mostly elderly people in 2003 (http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2003-09-25-france-heat_x.htm) That's hardly unbias to leave a fact like that out. I agree with you that getting the message out is the most important part of "SICKO" and I said that in my piece. If "SICKO" gets people talking about health care, then I'm for it. That's why I said people should see it. Next time you want to question me, or even critize me, feel free to stop at my site; thehippieconservative. you-know-what. I promise you will be treated respectfully.

In Canada each province runs their own hospital and health care system,the feds pay a percentage of cost,based on population of each province, each provincial government pays their share of cost.The federal government requires each province to supply a certain minimum standard of health care.The richer provinces with higher populations will offer more specialised care and equipment than a poorer province,but if someone in a poorer province requires special care that is not offered in that province,the province will pay the cost of sending that person to where they will get that care.

Thanks for coming in and providing a view point here. I'm guessing I'm the one being referred to (Jody).

Honesty yes, I like honesty.

I don't compare the video review to any show. I don't watch TV. I don't own a TV. So I don't have a reference to the shows mentioned.

Childishness, yup I like it too when it's not in conjunction with being mean spirited or bashing. I find it hard to listen to when it's mean. If I ever become a parent I won't tolerate that in my kid(s). I'm all for being childish when it's playful. Unfortunately the review was not playful. I'm willing to bet John Mellencamp wasn't equating staying young to mean childish mean-spirited acts.

Saying the bias before the review is fine. Constantly bashing the person during the review is a waste of breath. I don't care one way or the other about Michael Moore. I don't hate him, I don't love him. He does what he does and he gets people to talk. That is something I've stated here before. Statistics didn't work in Bowling for Columbine either, he used so many it was overkill.

Interesting statement: deceit is a form of lying. I'll provide the counterpoint, it's also a form of the truth. It's all in how something is looked at.

To later make a comparison to Benjamin Franklin who posed as Silence Dogood, and Samuel Clemens who was otherwise known as Mark Twain, is strange. If memory serves me correct, Ben Franklin was 15 years old when he wrote the Dogood letters to his brother. And Clemens was a novelist writing fiction. I'm not going to deny that Franklin and Clemens were brilliant people and writers, but we also know their identities too. I have learned is it isn't smart to directly compare oneself to brilliant people, it's better to let others make that comparison if it's warranted.

Getting fired for beliefs to me means it's the wrong job. I certainly wouldn't choose a job where my beliefs would get me fired. To me that is an inappropriate use of one's time. Obviously the University has a problem if they don't allow a range of professors. Sounds like that University is broken just like the Health Care system is broken. Perhaps a movie should be made and maybe something could be brought to light instead of hiding.

As for the debacle in France over a heat wave, sure that's terrible. I'm not gonna deny that. However, that was preventable if people had A/C. The same thing has happened here too and more often. I seem to recall heat waves hitting here more often in the past few years and every time there's stories of people dying due to no A/C or something related. That's just as terrible. Shouldn't our health care have stepped in too?

I appreciate you coming in and explaining a side of things, minus the wherewithal to reveal an identity. I'll decline the offer to join the hippie conservative site, as the introductory video I was exposed to really didn't show a situation that I would value as a good way to use my time.

At this point in the thread, we've attempted to start presenting ideas to how we would want to see our health care system reformed. Care to help provide ideas?

Jody, I like that, "hippie consertive" kind of an oxymoron. Ben

I'm not following you Ben. I didn't create the name hippie consertive. I was merely going by what the hippie conservative wrote in his post for his name.

I only mean't it in jest. I just thought those words sounded funny together. I don't know who used it first. Ben