JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum What is the shortest a hit-worthy song can be?

Can anyone tell me what is the shortest a song can be time-wise and still be acceptable? Does anyone know of some hits and their time (min.sec.) that were short? I know for radio they like it around 3 or 3 1/2 minutes but what about 2 or so minutes, are there any that short? Thank you.

Best,
Lynn

Hey Lynn:

I don't know what is currently acceptable or if there even are any rules. Hope others weigh in....

Goes back a long time but Max Frost and the Troopers had a big hit with "The Shape of Things to Come" back in the late 60's. Its running time was 1:52.

Scott

Hi Lynn,
I don't know if there is a minimum, I think it might be hard to write a song with complete thoughts in under 2 minutes but I am sure someone could prove me wrong.

Radio used to want some shorter songs to squeeze into the space at the end so Buck Owens purposely did shorter songs. I don't think that applies anymore.


Here are a few hits that are shorter:

I'll Have To Say I Love You In A Song (long title)
Jim Croce-2:31

Sunshine
Jonathan Edwards-2:14

Softly
Gordon Lightfoot-2:36

I also have a song that comes in at 2:07, Free To Go. You can hear almost the entire song at cdbaby.

Vondelle

I don't have the record in front of me, but I believe there was a song on Elvis Costello's first album that came in at about 1:57. I could be wrong, since I am trying to recall this from a long time ago, but it was not one of his hits although I thought it was a really fun song. I liked everything on that first album.

Jack

The La's had a perfect pop song that was a bit of a hit: "There She Goes". It was even a hit a second time about 10 years later.

The original clocked in at abour 1:42 or so, if I'm not mistaken.
In fact every song on that record was under 3:00, with one exception that clocked in at almost 8:00!

AllMusic listing: http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:w6ae4j270wav

EDIT: It was the second radio song ("Feeling") that was in the 1:40's!

Maurice Williams and the Zodiacs "Stay" was no.1 in 1960. I'll have to do some research to find out the exact time but it was called the shortest no.1 song at that time.

That's The Way Love Goes-M. Haggard

Hi Vondelle, (love that name)

Thanks for all your info. I actually went to your site and listened, very nice. I actually listened to see if I thought your 2:07 seemed to short a song as I did listen and it didn't feel that way which is good. Thanks for sharing.

Best,
Lynn

Hi Scott,

Yeah, 1:52 is short and yet a hit! This question was actually for my own interests in regards to a short song I wrote but it's turned out to be an interesting thread. Thanks.

Best,
Lynn

Hi Jack,

1:57 wow. I was wondering if things around the 2 minute mark even existed and apparantly so.

Best,
Lynn

Hi Pop,

I even looked up the link you provided and it seems The La's had many "short songs". Longer ones were the exception. Thanks for sharing that info with me.

Best,
Lynn

Hi Ben,

You needn't go to the trouble to look up the Zodiac's "Stay" song, unless your curious. It seems that "short" hit songs aren't so uncommon. That's good.

Best,
Lynn

Hi Dennis,

And yet another "shortie" for the record books. Didn't realize there was such a long list. Interesting. Thanks!

Best,
Lynn

Lynn,
While not the shortest the Rolling Stones had many a hit well under 3 minutes. George Strait has had several too. Wish one were mine. One thing about a short song is the listener doesn't have much chance to get bored. "Right or Wrong" by George Strait is 1 verse sung twice - that's it.

John

Howdy Lynn!

Ok, I don't have any hits, but I always try to write 'em short if I can... I figure if I play one and you don't like it the torture is over quickly; inversely if ya do you'll come back to hear it or buy the CD! (and you thought it was just my 2 minute attention span )

Jack was correct: Elvis Costello has a bunch of songs including hits that are at or under 2 minutes.

I heard a story on the radio one time (from a DJ so maybe someone can qualify it or discredit it) that Glen Campbell made a carreer of writing short songs. Apparently, the DJ's often had blocks of time under 3 mintutes that needed filling. Glen's songs fit nicely so he got a lot of airplay. Find your little niche...

So I say go ahead and write 'em short!!!

Chuck Crowe

It's the quality,not the quanity,of a song that makes it a hit.If you can say what you want to say in less than two minutes,why drag it out to three or four or five minutes.Nobody likes long speeches or long sermons,so maybe they don't like long songs, unless it is telling an interesting story that takes longer to tell.

Everett

Hi Gas Man,

Guess the jury's in. The short songs have it! Their allowed and welcomed! I hadnt' realized there were sooooo many. Thanks!

Best,
Lynn

Hi Chuck,

Interesting how sometimes the radio station is looking for a fill in and the 2 min ones fit the bill. I'm learning alot. Actually I'm not writing them short on purpose, they kind of come to me and some have come kind of short so I wanted to check this out. Thanks!

Best,
Lynn

Hi Everett,


I agree. I will say when I really love a song, even 3 minutes can be too short and I want the song to continue but if it's horrible it can be like torture so I quickly change the dial if I can. Thank you for your reply.

Best,
Lynn

Believe it or not, I have a stack of 45's sitting on my end table

Here's a couple more:

Five O'Clock World (Vogues) 2:05
Mr. Tambourine Man (Byrds) 2:18

A ton of them around 2:30......

Scott

I don't think any hit songs in the 21st century have been much under three minutes. Most of the examples given for short songs were from the 60's and 70's when AM radio was still popular. I vote for 3 minutes plus, because it could actually alter a music exec's perception of you, like you're out of touch with the current market.

JMO FWIW

Hi Shayne,

You raise a good point and made a astute observation that infact those "shorter" songs mentioned were not recent. Perhaps I should've worded my question "are there any recent hits that were under the 3 minute mark or closer to the 2 min. time, do I hear 2 1/2, going, going,". Thanks for weighing in on this.

Best,
Lynn

In jest, of course:

Well, TLT was a hit with Brian and a few members,and it is 2:00, (1:54) when I was on adrenalin! And, it was recent. So yeah, anything is possible. Just when there are rules that seem constant, something comes along to start yet another trend. Hear this Hit, (of sorts) at the third bottom link. Wink!

Interesting thread. When I first started writing songs, I didn't write anything shorter than 6 minutes long. I have to try real hard to get under 3 minutes. I'll have to work on the 1:57 thing :):)

Awright! I will grant you that I'm an oooooooold person and perhaps way out of touch with the current market (OUCH!) but I made a quick run to the MP3's that I've downloaded and I found this:

"Song 2" Blur 2:02 (1997)
"What's A Guy Gotta Do" Joe Nichols 2:19 (2004)
"Nothin' To Lose" Josh Gracin 2:37 (2004)
"The Late Great Golden State" Dwight Yoakam 2:26 (2003)
"Woo Hoo" The 5,6,7,8's 2:02 (1996)
"Sorrow" Bad Religion 2:47 (2002)
"Turn Me On" Norah Jones 2:34 (2002)
"The Only Difference Between Martyrdom and Suicide is Press Coverage" Panic! At The Disco 2:55 (2005)
"I Bet You Look Good On The Dance Floor" Arctic Monkeys 2:55 (2006)
"California Girls" Gretchen Wilson 2:48 (2005)
"Nothin' 'bout Love Makes Sense" 2:56 LeAnn Rimes (2001)
"American Idiot" Green Day 2:54 (2004)
"Good Riddance" Green Day 2:33 (2001)
"When I Come Around" Green Day 2:58 (1994)
"Punk Rock Girl" Dead Milkmen 2:39 (1988)
"Down In Mississippi And Up To No Good" Sugarland 2:51 (2004)
"Down" 311 2:53 (1996)
"Sex & Candy" Marcy Playground 2:56 (dunno 1997 maybe?)
"Lonely Day" System Of A Down 2:47 (2005)
"Sugar" System Of A Down 2:45 (1999)
"Buddy Holly" Weezer 2:39 (1994)

and in the pretty dang close department:

"Don't Know Why" Norah Jones 3:06 2002)
"Gold Lion" Yeah Yeah Yeahs 3:06 (2006)
"Big Deal" LeAnn Rimes 3:07 (1999)
"Hands Open" Snow Patrol 3:17 (2006)
"Somebody Told Me" The Killers 3:18 (2004)
"Girl's Not Grey" AFI 3:10 (2003)
"Dirty Little Secret" All-American Rejects 3:13 (2005)
"I'm Gonna Miss Her" Brad Paisley 3:13 (2001)
"Last Nite" Strokes 3:12 (2001)
"Juicebox" Strokes 3:14 (2005)
"Creeps Me Out" Ima Robot 3:03 (2006)
"Basket Case" Green Day 3:03 (1994)
"I'm Alright" Jo Dee Messina 3:16 (1998)
"Vertigo" U2 3:13 (2004)
"Dance, Dance" Fall Out Boy 3:00 (2005)
"You & Me" Lifehouse 3:15 (2005)
"Since U Been Gone" Kelly Clarkson 3:08 (2004)
"Walk Away" Kelly Clarkson 3:07 (2004)
"Hypnotize" System Of A Down 3:09 (2005)
"Hash Pipe" Weezer 3:02 (2001)

Yes, I admit I had to look up the dates. No, I did not search for these- they were already in my downloads list. I'm sure if we all searched we could find argument for either side.

Sooooo, I think that my original hypothesis is more-or-less true: write 'em as short as you like...

Smile!

Chuck Crowe

Seems like I remember that the Oak Ridge Boys' song, Thank God for Kids was only 2:15.

Best wishes,

Larry Beaird
http://www.beairdmusicgroup.com

Wow, Chuck... that is an impressive list. I humbly retract my statement

Hi John,

You had me laughing at your adrenalin line there. Your right about the rules sometimes being broken or being flexible is a good way to put it.

Best,
Lynn

Hi Vikki,

This has been interesting although my initial question was merely out of curiousity. It's also interesting how different people are, you have a hard time writing a shorter song and others have a hard time writing a longer song. Makes the world go around for sure!

Best,
Lynn

Hi Chuck, (as the Crowe flies),

Gee I feel like you just did my homework assignment for me and I should atleast share my peanutbutter sandwich and oreo's with you. Thanks for all that research which puts this matter to rest.

Long or short,
Short or long,
Either way,
Their both a song!

Thanks so much for your tireless effort on behalf of the question. And the gold star goes to.......... Chuck!

Best,
Lynn

Hi Shayne Again,

Hey we both learned a lesson. Thanks again.

Best,
Lynn

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the fact about the Oak Ridge Boys "shortie".
See you just registered w/JPF, so a hearty WELCOME!

Best,
Lynn

Hi Scott,

Almost missed ya, sorry. Ahh yes, Mr. Tambourine Man brings back the memories. Thanks.

Best,
Lynn

I was reminded yesterday that nearly all The Ramones' songs came in under 2 minutes. (Our impromptu bluegrass band will be playing some Ramones covers at the gig Thursday night. Punk rock with dual mandolin leads...) Shortest one I've written was "Can i Have Your Car When the Rapture Comes?", which was 2:16 with a lead break. I tend to be wordy, though. I try to hit for between 3:30 and 5 minutes.

Wasn't the original "mr. Tambourine Man" (by Dylan) something like 8 minutes? It had *lots* of *long* verses. I always figured Roger McGuinn just couldn't remember all the words...

Joe
www.soundclick.com/bands/7/joewrabek_music.htm
www.myspace.com/joewrabek
The Writer's Blog: http://nakedspacehamsters.blogspot.com

The most played song on radio ever is around the 2:00 mark, (give or take 4 seconds). "Yesterday". Two bridges as well. The one word hook/title being in the first and last lines for most of the verses allows not to have a chorus. And the bridges are around 20 seconds each, also with the hook. So, a hook heavy song with no long and repeating chourus,(which usually will also have a bridge or lead guitar, ect), can make for an extremely effective and very short song. That was of course McCartney's composition, but it was Lennon who might have steered him in the short direction early on, when he was quoted as saying when asked how to write great pop songs, "Say what you have to say and get out").

Then, like any Beatle would, (not following the rules joke), Paul later turns that advice around and ends a huge hit song with a 4 minute ending!

Yesterday could have been demoed with longer intro, a middle lead, and a longer ending, and like many songs, would be around the 3:00 mark. So, a producer could take your/our 3 to 4 minutes songs and strip them to the bare bones is wanted, and presto! A 2 to 2:30 song! (If that's what is wanted or needed).

I've done that for a lot of my songs for the fun of it. And they all came in around 2 to 2:30, with two being around 1:50. And they worked somehow, and sounded longer.

Fir FUN, try editing a song you, (anybody) has and make the intro very short if at all having one. Cut out any long sections in between verses and choruses, and have no leads. If there's a chorus, Get to it reall soon, as it should fot most hits anyway, (Ya know,,,don't bore us get to the chorus saying?). And just use a short bridge version if the one you have is not really concise.

See if that 4 and half minute song could be taken to 3. And the 3 to 2:30. (Not that it's needed now,,,,but for "getting to the point" demos, it wouldn't hurt to get to the the "song" and like Lennon said, "get out". Leave them hearing everything in short time. Could make a second listen easier to sit through too.

Do not touch "Famous". Back away from your computer.

Ha!! YOU HAD to say that, didn't you? You must know what I would then do. YEP! Challenged myself to bring Famous in at 2:30, which I just did, in about ten minutes of editing after thinking how the song would still be presented. (Actually good maybe for a publisher or label, (as if anyway,right?). But it was fun to hear it with the no intro, no lead, and other little chops. (Ending is real short, but gets the point across. (I think). I still like the full version way better, but for showing how a song can be shortened for publisher listens, it's pretty cool. The hook now comes in "three" separate times within 45 seconds! If they like the hook, that could get more time on the listen and possibly the whole song, if let known it is only 2 and half for that version, (and letting them know of the full bells and whistle version). >>>Yes? No?

I'll email the MP3 to anyone interested in hearing this shortened version. The full one can be heard on the Myspace link below.

Mmmmm, peanut butter! Thanks Lynn!!
Yeah, I think the best advice is just write 'em and don't worry about the length so much...

Chuck