JPF Home Page Forums Lyric and MP3 Feedback Lyric Feedback Forum 2 RED RIVER ROMANCE

blake, in two Texas songs I can think of right off, Jimmie dale Gilmore's Dallas and Guy Clark's Let It Roll, the word Dallas is just pronounced normally, with a short A. they're texas singers. it's totally your call and makes no difference to me at all. I've just heard hundreds of songs with the word Dallas in it and never heard it pronounced like that. in speech, either. you mention what sounds natural. that's a definite concern...but is it natural to mispronounce a word to force a weak rhyme? better to use a clean rhyme in a way that sounds natural. to me, that's the sign of a skilled, talented lyricist. we've all used shaky rhymes to get our points across. but to pack a song full of them shows a lack of concern for the craft...just shooting for the line of least resistance.

Hey Couch,

The proper pronunciation by the book is Dalles...check a dictionary to see that so a short a sound is not even proper.
I understand your point however and think it's valid.
What is NOT valid, is a "lack of concern for the craft" on my part...that's a little condescending (actually alot) from my point of view.
We could go back and forth forever, and that'd be a complete waste of time.
We've got completely different takes on lyrics and different styles and that's OK. It'd be like me telling you to stop with all the description; it's your style, so me telling you that is pointless, it's what you think makes a good lyric. My style might not be as rigid as yours since your concern for the craft is apparently greater than mine, but that doesn't make your opinion a correct one, or incorrect for that matter.

If I was rhyming dallas.
My first thought would be palace.
The second would be phallus (sp)
But that would be naughty.
They tell us.
Just a side thought. Is the Cow Palace in Dallas?
I forget.
If so, I bet that was the logic in the naming.
If not. It was a thought anyway.
Regards.
Graham

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http://www.songramp.com/homepage.ez?Who=grahamhenderson

Graham, that's right...the way Dallas is pronounced, those would be perfect rhymes. that's why Dallas and Alice are often used in couplets. how you could say it rhymes with an ow sound loses me. but it's not my song.

Blake, description is the lifeblood of artistic writing...writing that's not for the sake of facts like journalism, and even then it's useful. I learned that in English class way before i dropped out in 9th grade. that's why Robert Johnson, Hank sr., Chuck Berry, Dylan, TVZ, Bruce and others are so admired. they described vivid scenes and fit them in songs. to criticize description in lyrics, esp Americana lyrics would be like saying a photographer has too much scenery in his landscapes. of course, too much of anything is no good, but so far I've rarely had anyone tell me that Nashville cliche...show me, don't tell me.

as for your concern for the craft, only you would know that. but song after song with rickety rhymes suggests a writer is settling. picture this....

a gal comes to me and says, "tell me if I'm a good singer, Mr. Grouch!" "uhh, ok..." she has little range, not much depth and very little emotion. I tell her she doesn't do much for me, she needs to work on her singing. she says Janet Jackson's popular and she doesn't have a good voice, either. true but the gal didn't ask me if it was possible to be a successful "singer" with an eh voice. she asked me if she had a good voice. that's two different things. if she figgers Janet can't sing but she's a millionaire so why should she work on her voice, that tells me she'd rather settle than be the best singer she can be. sure AJ's popular but he's not much of a lyricist. not that him(and Janet) aren't appealing, that's just not his strength. a recent Entertainment Weekly article said as much but jeez, all you hafta do is look at a few lyrics and see, he's not writing Eleanor Rigby on those genial cds of his. but it's your call. what you want to achieve when you write is up to you. I just pointed out what I noticed and then what I gleaned from your reaction.

Couch,

One thing I DO know, after seeing you "debate" with others on this board is.......it's like pissing in the wind...and it's a complete waste of time. We'll call it good here (PLEASE) and agree to disagree, and if i use rickety rhymes in the future, I'll just know you won't like them. Cool enough? Thanks.

I don't get it... why on earth would it bother someone so to rhyme 'bout us/Dallas? It would be a little like condemning a writer for using a rhyme like "psalm/upon". Now for that to be a perfect rhyme, it would have to be psalm/balm or psalm/qualm. Near as I can tell, unless you spell it "psalm/upalm", it's just not quite there, IMO.

Tink

My gawd, wait a few days and what do I walk into!? Dallas and us DO rhyme. Period. It's dialect rhyme, but it's rhyme. A downeaster won't read it that way (all my relatives), a spaniard won't read it that way, and us fruits and nuts land folks won't either, but I hear it like that every day with the Dallas people I talk to.

Non issue.

This is a classic example of a commercial, popular song, Blake. Is it literature? Nope. Who cares. It gets our simple hearts and simple minds pumping with reminiscences.

Works damn good for me.

I might change the frist word of the last line of the chorus from "to" to "for" though. And it seems you've cleaned it up a lot since first post. It feels much smoother now than I remember first reading it a few days ago.

Good work, Blake.

#Wow, Blake, if you get this much attenti..un
when you release the CD, I'd say you'll be a rich man! Still love this lyric, don't find the rhyme a problem, and wonder why this had to turn into such a pissin match...solid, tight, writing, great sentiment and hook. Jeannette

Howdy Blake!

Haven't been around for a while. My wife is still extremely ill (will be for the rest of her life, the doc sez). She's having serious complications from a stroke. Anyway, about your song:

The only comment I had was what Tink has already said in her comment. (Isn't she a terrific lyricist?) As far as the rhyming debate, you probably already know my feelings from previous posts. It's your song, write it your way. It's up to me to like it or dislike it.

By the way...I LIKE IT!!

Alan

[This message has been edited by sideman66 (edited 11-24-2002).]

Alan,

Nice to see you post; sure appreciate ya giving this a read.

More importantly, I'm sorry to hear about your wife...i had no idea that had happened. I promise to put that on the prayerlist for ya (and you as well.) I'm awfully sorry to hear about that.

Right now what works n does not work in a song is not important to me. I do thank you for the links you have given to me.If you do pray please pray for my grandma also. She was born in 1912. I just got home from the er with her at 6 am . She was sick. Her blood count is 4 times what it should be. The Dr wanted to put her in the hospital but she would not stay. They wanted to run more tests to make sure it was leukemia. She has no signs of nothing else. I am to take her to the family Dr. If she will not stay in the hospital she will have to get the tests done as outpatient which will take longer and delay treatment.
Later,
Carl