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hi folks, I'm based in the uk, and I'm
wondering if superstition travels well,
please can you help me, if I was to mention
for example, magpies, please could you tell
me the things that come to mind in your
country ?
thank-you very much.

What's a magpie?

If the audience needs to get the reference to like the song - a lot of times it doesn't work. If its still a cool song without getting the reference, than folks will try and learn what it meant and that can generate additional buzz.

A local radio jock here in Northampton Mass is from England and he does a feature every morning called "word in your ear" where he uses a colloquial term folks here in the states aren't likely to know and listeners call in with their best guess. Its a very popular feature of his show.



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Marty listen here

Is there a setting on the digital delay that will allow me to think before I speak?

Marty,
a magpie is a fairly common bird in much of the west. Black and white from a distance. (although much of the tail is not black. my ID book pictures show it to be more of an irridescent blue-green)
and if you're old enough to remember........ the cartooon characters Heckle and Jeckle were supposed to be magpies.

to answer your question maccca,
I'm not sure we have any superstitions attached to magpies. In some areas they are considered pests. and their chatter can be annoying.
Are they more akin to our folk interpretations of owls? bad omens and such?

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Harriet
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/harrietamesmusic.htm

Well,
The only Magpies I am aware of are those two cartoon characters Heckel and Jeckel.

Hi maccca,

What you associate with a magpie would probably be better understood here with a reference to a raven or crow. From the poem by Edgar Allen Poe ("The Raven") to "The Crow" movies, it's clearly understood in the states that they are an omen of death, or a guide to the underworld, or both. For the sake of songwriting, "raven" and "magpie" have the same metric foot, so should be interchangeable. Visually, the three birds (magpie, raven, crow) are pretty much all the same -- large, black (or mostly black) birds. But, as I said, the raven or crow would be the reference Americans would understand.

In the states, we generally call magpies "mockingbirds", which is more associated with the childrens' song "Hush little baby, don't say a word / Mama's gonna buy you a mockingbird / etc...", and so brings images of childhood, not ill omen.

Hope that helps.

Baz / Erik
www.eriktyler.com
www.soundclick.com/eriktyler

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"The only way to get anywhere is to cross a few lines."

okay...then there must be some regional differences Eric.
Cuz no one I know would call a magpie a mockingbird.
two different birds.... and (sorry to get technical...but it's part of what I studied during my 5 years of college) they are in different families of birds. not closely related, I'm thinking.
Magpie is about twice the size of a mockingbird.

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Harriet
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/harrietamesmusic.htm

I think of a football team.

Mockingbirds are present here in New England, but not nearly as prevalent as down south, as I understand it. I myself have not seen one. My connection between "magpie" and "mockingbird" goes back to childhood, which admittedly, is getting muddy. I defer to the ornathologist!

As far as the "ill omen" best being conveyed by a raven or crow in the states -- of that much I'm sure.

Baz / Erik

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"The only way to get anywhere is to cross a few lines."

Weren't magpies supposed to steal babies or something similarly medieval? Wasn't that because magpies were rumoured to steal things from other birds' nests to (shall we say) feather their own?

Joe

thank-you all very much for your help
and time, I appreciate that,

me.

hey i was just curious...it is VERY bizarre what has been happening to me for the last month or so...i was just wondering if anyone could explain what the hell is going on with me!! kk here is the deal....almost everytime i look at a clock...(mainly digital) i see 1:11, 2:22, 3:33, 4:44, or 5:55...it seriously freaks me out because its been happening to me constantly everytday at least twice a day...PLEASE HELP!!! plz email me with reply...anyone...or a reference to an expert would be good..thanks!! nancythedevil666@hotmail.com

My first girlfriend!

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bc

Magpies - This is a little superstitious verse that my mum (Irish) used to say to me whenever she saw a "tiding" of magpies.

One for sorrow
Two for joy
Three for a wedding
Four for a boy
Five for silver
Six for gold
Seven for a secret never to behold
Eight a wish
Nine for a kiss
Ten is a secret you cannot miss

Here are some other versions that I have found on the net

Crow or Magpie Augry (the practice of foretelling the future based on the number of birds seen) has been around for centuries, and spawned many version of the "counting rhyme". These are a few.
The older ones and the European ones tend to be about magpies, while the newer ones and the North American ones tend to be about crows, suggesting that the subject switched from magpies to crows around the same time that people were crossing the atlantic.


Counting Rhyme (from The Folklore of Birds, by Laura C. Martin, 1993)

One for sorrow, two for mirth,
Three for a wedding, four for a birth,
Five for silver, six for gold,
Seven for a secret not to be told.
Eight for heaven, nine for hell,
And ten for the devil's own sel'.


Counting Crows
One for sorrow,
two for joy,
three for a girl,
for for a boy,
five for silver,
six for gold,
seven for a secret,
never to be told,
eight for a wish,
nine for a kiss,
ten for a time
of joyous bliss.




Magpie Rhyme (from Bird Brains, by Candace Savage, 1997. The Rhyme she quotes is from The Dictionary of Superstitions published by Oxford University Press in 1992)

One for sorrow,
two for mirth,
three for a wedding,
four for birth,
five for rich,
six for poor,
Seven for a witch,
I can tell you no more.


Counting Rhyme

One crow sorrow,
Two crows mirth,
three, a wedding,
four, a birth,
five brings silver,
six takes wealth,
seven crows a secret,
More I can nae tell.


Counting Crows

One for sadness, two for mirth;
Three for marriage, four for birth;
Five for laughing, six for crying:
Seven for sickness, eight for dying;
Nine for silver, ten for gold;
Eleven a secret that will never be told.

One for sorrow, two for mirth, three's a wedding, four's a birth, five is Heaven, six is Hell, seven is the Devil himself.


Magpie, magpie, chatter and flee,
Turn up thy tail, and good luck to me.


One's lucky,
Two's unlucky,
Three is health,
Four is wealth,
Five is sickness
And six is death.


One crow sorrow,
Two crows joy,
Three crows a letter,
Four crows a boy.

One for sorrow
Two for mirth
Three for a wedding
Four for a birth
Five for silver
Six for gold
Seven of a secret not to be told
Eight for heaven
Nine for hell
And ten for the devil's own self.


One for sorrow
Two for joy
Three for a girl
Four for a boy
Five for silver
Six for gold
Seven for a secret never to be told.


One for sorrow
Two for mirth
Three for a wedding
Four for birth
Five for rich
Six for poor
Seven for a witch
I can tell you no more.

There are many recorded instances of country folk being n real terror if a single pynot or "Maggotty-Pie" flew across their path. Two of the most popular rhymes concerning this dangerous bird of omen are:
One for Anger
Two for Mirth
Three for a Wedding
And for for a Birth
Five for Silver
But six for Gold
Seven for a secret
that's never been told.
Eight for Heaven
And nine for Hell
Ten for the Devil
Who'll get yer so'elle

One for Sorrow
Two for Joy
Three for a Letter
Four for a Boy
Five is for rich
And six for Poor
Seven for a Witch
And Eight for a Whore
Nine for Burying
I ca tell thee no more.

Tradition accusses the magpie of not wearing full mourning at the Crucifixtion and is supposed to carry a drop of the Devil's blood under its tongue.

The/ magpie brings us/ tidings of/ news both fair and/ foul
She's more/ cunning than the/ raven More/ wise than any/owl
She/ brings us news of the / harvest Of/ barley wheat and/ corn
She/ knows when we'll go/ to our graves/ How we shall be/ born//
One's for sorrow/ Two's for joy/ Three's for a girl and/ Four's for a boy/
Five for silver/ Six for gold And/ Seven for a secret/ never told//
Devil devil/ I defy th-/ ee//
Devil devil/ I defy th-/ ee/
Devil devil/ I defy/ thee//


[This message has been edited by johnnie7au (edited 12-27-2005).]

A little off topic but ...

These are sites that have pictures of the Australian magpie and the Australian Magpie lark

http://www.calm.wa.gov.au/plants_animals/bird_magpie.html

http://www.amonline.net.au/factsheets/magpie_lark.htm

The magpies Aussie rules football club

http://collingwoodfc.com.au/

Hi Gang:

Harriet is absolutely right. Although Magpies don't normally inhabit the central and eastern portions of the USA, they are somewhat plentiful in the western half of our country. I have never heard anything "superstitious" about this species of bird who happens to be a cousin of the Crow and Raven. In the southern USA, there are plenty of interesting "legends" about the Raincrow (Yellow Billed Cuckoo) who is a cousin of the Roadrunner.

Thanks for an interesting post. In my younger years I was an amateur ornithologist.

All my best to all of you for a Happy and Successful 2006. RICE

I always thought Magpies were native only to Australia.
Also thoight heckle and Jeckle were crows.
The things ya learn on JPF.
I like a thing my day used to say:
Superstition is the religion of feeble minds.
Mind, I decided it worked better for me inverted.
Graham

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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/grahamhenderson_music.htm

Magpies are quite prevelent here in BC. Canada. They are usually quite mischievous and noisy. They have been known to dive bomb cats in our area.I heard that in folklore they were considered an ill omen...
Ravens are good luck if there is one, two together is bad luck apparently.

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"Let the morning bring me word of your unfailing love, for I have put my trust in you. Show me the way I should go, for to you I lift up my soul"

Magpies? What comes to my mind? Bagpipes.
And then dumplings. Really. But how does superstition come into play with magpies? What are magpies?

John Daubert

Hey I come from NOTTINGHAM,ENGLAND
& magpies are a pest where I live.Over the years they have multiplied and have started to bully all the other birds here,even canadian geese which are quite big.Anyway enough of the ornithology lesson,I think there is a magpie quote goes

1 for sorrow
2 for joy
3 for a girl
4 for a boy
5 for silver
6 for gold
7 for a secret never to be told
thats what I remember from an old kids series from the 70's called magpie.
PEACE.
STICKUZ.

In aussie, where i'm from, Maggies are EVERYWHERE. but here they aren't a pest as such, but more of a national icon. if any of you brits have watched Neighbours (i was told it's aired there too) you would have heared the typical warble at the start of each scene. so, yeah, no real superstition that i know of topical here.
Dreamer