JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum How does this stay on the Country charts for 35

35 weeks this has been on the charts.
How did this even get on the radio.
If I sent these lyrics to a publisher they would'nt even get through the first verse.
Unbelievable!

"You Are" by Jimmy Wayne

Baby when I look at you
You know it breaks my heart in two
How beautiful you are
I've seen you in a million dreams
Now you're finally here with me
We will never be apart
I wanna hold you forever
That's all I'll ever need

CHORUS: You are my love
You are my life
My heart and soul
The truest friend I've ever known
You are my world
All of my dreams
My fantasy, my reality
I love everything you are

Every time I close my eyes
It hits me so deep inside
How real this feeling is
I'm intoxicated by your touch
It's a sweet, sweet rush
I'm in love with your kiss
You're the one I trust the most
You changed me

Not familiar with country radio, but holy @#!& that is bad. Real bad.

[This message has been edited by Shandy (edited 09-16-2004).]

Well, hmmm... that effin sucks. Man, is that bad. I don't know what to say. Except that I feel like throwing up languishing over these lyrics I write. Truman, are you SURE they don't push crappy songs?

Doesn't this look like something you could of wrote when you were about 8 years old.

My guess is that he is young and good lookin to the female audience, has a decent voice, but cmon!!!...

This is the perfect example of pushing Crap.
35 weeks of pushing it.
This morning the DJ on our local country station said "hey this kid is a fighter to stay on the charts this long".
Yeah sure It's seems like payola to me.

DAvid

And they wonder why I don't listen to mainstream radio.
Even I, Mister tact and postitive approach to critique himself, would have trouble finding a place in this one to start some sort of costructive comment to this one.
Graham

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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/grahamhendersonmusic.htm

Here is why: Kenny Chesney wrote that song.

What! did Kenny pull this out of his elementary school journal?
It still just boggles my mind.
Especially when you know this would be shredded if it was one of our tunes..

DAvid

That is just disgusting. The type of lyric you would expect a beginning lyricist to write...No it's worse than that. Are you sure that these are the actual lyrics?
A six year old could write better than this. Yuckkk!

Someday folks around here will learn that Art and Commerce are separate things. Using standards for one to judge the merit of the other is pointless.

It would be better to examine how folks who wrote this song were able to find commerical success. Their "art" in this case is obviously more about navigating the industry successfully and figuring out how to get radio airplay. Writing a great lyric is one talent. Knowing how to get a song played on the radio is a different one. If you're concern is with commercial success, then better to study how they do it and mimic that than complain that your "art" is better. If you want to create better art, then do it.. but don't expect that talent to translate to commercial success. It rarely every does.

We use this analogy all the time and it always applies. McDonalds makes generic food that isn't as good as nearly any other restaurant (or probably any other dinner being cooked in a home) on a given day. But they know how to appeal to the masses with food that is as simplistic and generic as it can be. A Master Chef probably isn't lamenting how McDonalds can make a zillion dollars a day selling a zillion hamburgers. He's making great food for what is likely a much smaller niche of consumers. Artists concerned with art over commerce should do the same. Unless you want to write McSongs and learn about how to market them, don't concern yourself with bad lyrics in a pop-country song. You'll never find an answer that will be satisfactory from the artistic view. Why do people watch Jerry Springer when they could watch the History Channel? Why do people eat McDonalds when they could have a home cooked meal at a small local restaurant that costs the same and taste better? Why do people want to listen to lame songs with bad lyrics over a well thought out, deeply written piece of art?
The answer defies logic.. but that's what people do every day on all sorts of products and choices.

Brian

Good point and great analogy.

I wish I could analize the report of exactly how this song is continued to play on radio.
Also what the process was of getting it there.
Now where did I put Kenny's number...
Just kidding!
Your a very wise man Brian, and once again you've put things in a very positve perspective.
Great message of how we need to start analyzing the positive ways that this got on there instead of why this sould not be on the radio according to all the darn Quasi Songwriting rules.

I'll stop whining again for a while.


Thanks,
DAvid

ok David,guess you better jump again
http://www.mjmrecords.com/websitephotos/mainwaterfall.gif

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Michael,

Did not quite go so overboard on this one.
But I am still crafting that barrel made out of demo CDs.
Just need a few more bad songs and it will be strong enough to make it over.
Or on a positive note I could finally get a cut and buy a motorboat engine and make it up the river. But I would need a publisher to wade through the water and get me..

Thanks for the laugh again Buddy!

DAvid

How does this stay on the Country charts for 35 weeks?

People who listen to country radio like it?

It sounds like the folks here don't like it. That's fine.

I've never heard it. No opinion. Analyzing a song by reading the lyrics is like analyzing a painting by looking at the jars of paint.

Well Truman,

If you have ever looked at (ascap) Ralph Murphy's laws of songwriting his Publisher survey that he conducted says the number one important thing publishers are looking for are the lyrics.

DAvid

I sort of go along with that David.
Only thing is, I look at it more as to how well the lyric works phonetically. How it fits and/or makes the melody, rather than wht the words actually say.
Now I now I stand a good chance of being banned for life from the Lyricist's Of The World Federation for saying that, but the fact remains I rarely know what the lyrics of any song are unless I read them. But if I hear one line that clangs with the music, youbet I will know what that line says, and why it shouldn't.
Graham

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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/grahamhendersonmusic.htm

Sure. Not only that, I had Ralph explain it to me in person once. Ralph is a very cool guy. Funny. And very astute. And, he did not say that lyrics were the ONLY important thing. What is posted above is a LYRIC ONLY.

A song lyric does not exist independent of a song. It is a part of the whole.

There are a lot of cool songs with pretty lame lyrics. That is because a great musical vibe, or a cool groove, or a fabulous melody...or just a great vocalist...all can produce a great record.

Ralph, I believe, would also be the first guy to agree with what Brian mentioned earlier: when you see an obviously successful song, that you don't like, you can either rip it or learn from it. Each of us decides which path to take.

Sometime, just for fun, read the lyrics to "Wild Thing," and ask yourself if you would give a songwriter a $10,000 advance based on the lyric alone. Of course you wouldn't. You would say it is stupid and throw it in the can. BUT, as a whole, the song was pretty cool. It was effective. It worked. People loved it and STILL DO. You don't believe that, play it at a wedding reception sometime. Maybe people just love a good ocarina solo every now and then.

I believe the song at the top of this thread is popular because people like it. Does anyone have a better explanation?

Does anyone here think that Jimmy Wayne, or his producer, or the president of his label, heard that song and said, "Gawd that is awful! Let's cut it." Of course they didn't. They LIKED THIS SONG. You guys don't. What can you learn from that?

What do YOU think? What is your theory? Why did Jimmy Wayne cut THIS song? Why, among 10 or 12 songs on his CD, did the record company choose THIS one as a single? The results seem to indicate that these guys know what they are doing and that they made very effective choices. What can we all learn from that?

Here is something else Ralph Murphy told me. When I asked him if he was having a good day, he said, "Every day that I wake up is a good day." Very astute, indeed.

Truman,

I agree with most of what your saying.
I think that however most lyrics in todays country hits can almost stand on their own.

Rock songs don't count here.
I could give thousands of those examples.

To answer your question:

I think that Jimmi Wayne's song is a good song musically and vocally so I guess some folks could like it. (but which)
But I think how it got cut was probably due to someones hype and pushing it. Especially if Kenny Chesney wrote it.

I see your point that if it was total crap that no executive would let it out.

So my final conclusion is that they must of anticipated a Younger target audience than the usual 35 year old female.
I'm guessing they thought this would appeal to a young female audience 15-23
Must be a label marketing genious behind this one.

So I guess if I was to judge this as a 15 year old female I would think this song was just Dreamy...

Another solved case...
I figured this out with no DNA.
CSI Nashville
Cut Song Investigation

Hey that would be a great show to have on CMT
How bout it Truman, you and me start this show.

DAvid

Okay, sigh, I'm going to jump in here. Thanks a lot Wyman <g>! Just kidding!
First off I'll re-iterate what DavidW said in his response to Brian, 'great analogy'. Secondly, there's a conglomerate called "radio". Radio is a business, music is a business. Music feeds radio and radio feeds music. That simple. Marketing made this happen, and marketing has kept it happening. That's it in a nutshell. Oh, and by the way, this song actually opens up really well, sounds great all the way to the chorus and that's the part everyone (that I know of) gets disappointed. But it made it, it exists, and you too can write lame lyrics (and I'm only talking lyrics cause the melody's not bad at all) if you have a major label and a fantastic marketing plan. Oh, and by the way, there is no such thing as bad press, so already here just because of this post we're all feeding the curious minds into going out and listening to this just to decide whether or not it's really bad, and so it'll have another week on the charts, thanks to DavidW. <g> just kidding with you David! BUT, that's marketing!

Oh, you're quite welcome Char. Anything I can do to help <G>
And you're quite right. Hadn't heard this , uh, song, but now I've got the try to catch it. I don't usually listen that much cause most of it, I don't care for. (Well, been a few lately (Whiskey Lullaby, etc)I hadn't noticed the writer on it but Songbird said Bill Anderson. Now "there's" a songwriter
Wy

Personally, I don't care much for simplistic lyrics such as this one...but sometimes writing something simple is the hardest thing to do!!

We all tend to "overwrite" sometimes...

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http://shayneman.proboards19.com/

You're absolutely right Shayneman. Simple is better "if" and that's a big if ,"If" you can make it work. For ths aimple reason that an "overwritten" song just makes too many points instead of concentrating on just a few simple ones ,cause just a very few points that stand out is all the average listener is going to remember anyway. When we over write (I plead guilty too), it's really more "fun" to write but is it going to grab
the listener? I'm talking Country of course. Some other genres, the lyrics don't mean that much, It's all about the beat and the "groove"
Wy

Ok, here' what I find funny (and ironic). A couple of songwriters I know have sent demos in the past to Dreamworks creative director (whose name I wont mention). One of the usual comments you'll always hear from them is "try to stay away from using cliches". But yet here is this song, 35 weeks on radio loaded with cliches.

I'm not saying that my songwriting friends are better writers, but their lyrics sure as heck don't have as many cliches as this song does. I agree that Jimmy Waynes'song musically has a nice structure and arrangement, but if it would have been pitched by an unknown writer the chances it would have gotten cut (or even published) are slim to none.

just my 2 cents...

I just listened to a snippet of "You Are" at Amazon.com. I have to agree the lyrics are really poor, nothing but cliches and just kind of dumb. I would guess that it's popularity has to do with the rest of the song--the melody, the beat, the feel, the singer's performance--and a marketing push, and LUCK.

--Jean

hey brian,

you put this very well

ande





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Ande Rasmussen
AndeRasmussen@aol.com
http://www.AndeRasmussen.com
http://songramp.com/ande
http://www.soundclick.com/anders
http://www.MySpace.com/anders

Editor Of "Inspirations for Songwriters"
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This is why I tend to avoid writing love songs. I could take the words of this lyric, rearrange them, add or subtract here and there and come up with a bunch of different versions of a love song that has been written thousands of times before... seems that may be exactly how these lyrics were "written." Anyway, as others have said, it's a hit for some reason.

I'd be happy just to be able to write a decent love song for my wife. But I can guarantee you that if I sung lyrics like this (even with a great melody) to her, she'd be very disappointed that I couldn't come up with something better. Hell, she might even file for divorce .

Not that this has much to do with the point of the thread but I believe that most people pay more attention to the music of a song than the lyrics. There are just way too many examples of hit songs with strong beats and melodies but poor lyrics for me to believe it's not true. If that's what the public wants, so be it...

Having said that, most of us would never get a cut with lyrics like this because we hold ourselves to a higher standard lyrically than what a large number of listeners evidently do. Most of us would have filed these lyrics in the circular file rather than embarrass ourselves. If money is more important in the end, perhaps we should all rethink our approach.

Buzz,

I have heard Bob Young say something a couple times about lyrics.
I can't exactly quote him but he said once in another post that during the thousands of gigs he has played at he usually doesn't look out in the audience seeing people humming melody lines.
THey are mouthing and singing every word.

So that should tell you the importance of the lyrics.

DAvid

Have you ever heard where 70% of communication is non-verbal? Like, your body language and tone of voice and facial expression, etc., carry 70% of the message, and the actual words you choose carry only 30% of the message. I think, for some people, myself included, that's how music is. The words are important, but if the words are mediocre and the music is great, I'll enjoy the song...if the words are fantastic and the music is blah, I probably won't like the song...best thing being the lyrics and the music are fantastic, but the music, for ME, will always win out as more important. I mean, I can listen to an instrumental and get all kinds of meaning and enjoyment out of it, and not care what the title is, and not ever need to hear any words to it...and that's complete music to me, just like a song that has words.

Sorry for the tangent. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

I do think that some people listen more to the words and don't care as much about the music...just a different set of ears, I guess. --Jean

[This message has been edited by JL (edited 09-21-2004).]

Good point David. But I could point out that this is often true in dance clubs as well and we all know that most dance music is not lyrically challenging (for good reasons but still true). Just because people sing along doesn't always mean the lyrics are great. Sometimes it means they are easy to remember.

In my experience - which is no where near as vast as Bob's - people who enjoy thoughtful lyrics in music tend to be quiet while a song is playing and only applauding when the song is finished. They want to soak in every word. People who sing along tend to do so because either the song is fun to sing or because the lyrics are easy to remember. This is not meant to be a negative comment, just my own observation. There are always exceptions.

Well, out here in "Nashville West" (Bakersfield, CA), I heard this song played once on the radio and I understand that there are NO requests for the song. I believe this is Jimmy's 2nd single. The first one barely got into the the top 20; I don't know where this one is on the charts. Nashville's promoted some good songs and some pretty bad songs . . . and this song has got to be the worst of the worst!

HI Evabody!

Real Enjoyable Discussion, Hats Off to Brian for the Best Explanation so far!

This all brings to mind back in the '80's when Stevie Wonder had a Hit with "I Just Called to Say I Love You" & Publishers all over were soon seekin' "Songs With Banal Lyrics"..with a Vengeance!

Back to Lurkin' Mode...
Big Hugs,
Stan

I also totally agree with Brian, apples and oranges, and personal opinion plays a big part in both.

Dave

I think some of you are missing the point. Corey gave you the answer.
Kenny Chesney. Simple as that.
In Nashville if you are an established star you can get just about anything released.
He could probably write a song comparing toilet paper brands and it would get airplay.
And anyone who believes there is no "payola" involved is living in a fantasy land. I have read it takes at least $200,000 to get a song on the air on a major radio network.
BTW the lyric may be juvenile but the song itself is pretty decent.
Production, orchestration, etc, are good.
I'd still question how many CD's he sells.

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www.soundclick.com/billrobinson

Bill
Live with a song in your heart

Whoops, I was wrong... I did a little research on "You Are"... there were, count 'em, 4 writers! I think I got mixed up because Jimmy Wayne wrote a song with similarly insipid lyrics on one of Kenny's albums. Anyway the writers of "You Are" are Jimmy Wayne, Chris Lindsey, Aimee Mayo, and Marv Green. So I guess the answer to the original question is: a good tune and payola.

It took four writers to write that?
Ohh man...
Unbelievable...

LOL

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www.soundclick.com/billrobinson

Bill
Live with a song in your heart

I agree with Brian. Art and commerciality are two separate things. I'm a singer-songwriter and I like to create art. However, I want a recording and publishing deal, and so I need to know what is SELLING in the MARKET. The audience is the ultimate decision-maker, and if they like it, then it will sell, and so publishers will publish it, artists will record it, labels will release, and radio stations will air it.

My second point is that country music is very down-to-earth-, home-feel-, traditional- like. I am not surprised that that song had great acceptance in the country market.

Thirdly, it if often hard to judge a song (lyrics) without the music. Did all of you who named the song s**t actually "listen" to the song?

Last, you need to understand that art is a very subjective thing. What is art, good, beautiful for some, is garbage for others. My best friend, my bf, my parents, my teachers, love some of my songs and don't like some others.

ok don't shoot me. I totally agree the lyrics are lame but for some odd reason i sing along with this song everytime I hear it. It's catchy. I guess it's sort of a guilty pleasure sort of thing. Now I feel real guilty since I'm not in the target audience I'm over 40. If you won't tell anyone, I won't tell anyone. ( and yes I still call myself a songwriter lol)

Funny, I hear people humming and whistling all the time in all sorts of places, but I seldom run into anyone who knows more than a few catch phrases or chorus from songs they've heard literally hundreds of times.

Quick, sing through two full verses of "My Favorite Things" or "Moon River".

Bet you can hum your way through them, though.

And I've yet to walk into a supermarket or elevator and hear Lyrak.

As the inimitable team of McCartney/Lennon once said (for more than five minutes) in their most successful pop hit:

Nahhhhhh, nahhh-nahhh, nah-nah-nah-nah... nah-nah-nah-nah...

(It's kinda funny that people are debating the importance of lyrics in a thread where everyone agrees that a hit song on the charts for more than half a year has lyrics that wouldn't pass muster on any internet song board. Like Brian said, in so many words: what does that tell you, folks?)

[This message has been edited by RobertK (edited 10-06-2004).]

What's all the fuss about!
Didn't hear the song, but love the chorus and hook.
I feel those parts are very well written.
Achey Breaky Heart, Swingin', She Don't Know She's Beautiful, Pop A Top, and many other songs with simple and sometimes referred to (as you folks say), "lame lyrics," seem to always make money.

I don't see this point as being relevant to
making money in the music business;
other than a bit of ones jealousy, and inflated egos.

Writing great lyrics, of course, would be the ultimate situation, if one had the gift.
I think being versitile, can only benfit ones chances for success
Regarding what grabs me in first hearing a song;
Yes- The music, and the beat rule!

Rock On!

or is that Country On?
Now that's lame.

Cal





[This message has been edited by Cal (edited 10-07-2004).]

You forgot to mention " She thinks my tractors sexy" LOL

Well well Wyoming, does this mean you're converted
On the topics of lyrics, funny story: see Wyman wrote a lyric, and it was complete, and it was whole. Then one day an artist decided he liked it, but then he sliced and diced it, to fit a feel he wanted, and it was complete, but it was half the lyric that Wyman wrote, did that make it less whole? I dunno, but darn if people didn't get grabbed by it anyway. Thing is if Wyman was to post it as a lyric as it now stands he would be crucified for having half a story, yet if one was to hear the complete song as it now stands then one might actually think hmmm, I dunno what it's got but it's got something.

hey there tialyn-

The song must still be making money-
I heard it on WSM 650 Nashville's a.m radio station; last night about 22:15, while in Indiana, driving home from a job.
Interesting how I heard it not to long after seeing your post.

JMO

Ok...
after further consideration
I admit that I started to hum this dumb song too.
Maybe because I payed so much intimate attention to it.
But I surely ain't gonna buy it..
The melody line is good.
Jimmy's voice is good.
Lyrics still SUCK
but hey it works.
I just need Jimmy to sing my tunes..
This song would be good litmus test for any performer.. If you can sing this particular song and pull it off with those lyrics than you can perform anything...
So congrats to Jimmy Wayne and his label...

DAvid

You have to ask why? Simple. "Lemmings like the water".

I'm with Graham. My family and I no longer listen to commercial radio. Haven't for about 5 or 6 years. We don't miss it either. It's just too predictable. Payola has been and is king. There's nothing you can do about it. What you can do for yourself is to move on and connect with your audience. Write good songs, play them, enjoy it, and hopefully others will too. Sell some CDs.

Yea, that song is pretty bad lyrically. But hey, who knows how to polish a turd and sell it as the ultimate confection on a stick better? Can you blame them? Money, money, money......we love it!

Kris Karr
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/kriskarrmusic.htm

It is amazing how quickly people change up once the big dawg ( brian ) speaks. Read above his post, then read below it. Its great that he gave you a very good explanation of WHY, and its great that folks can see the light of day because of what he said. If you want to complain and downgrade someone elses lyrics by calling them disgusting and awfull, I think that is very un-professional, un-sportsman like and un-caring of your fellow writers. Critiquing is one thing but demeaning someones work is another. I'm totaly disapointed!

Robert Gann

[This message has been edited by palidin (edited 10-08-2004).]

I'm sorry if someone DISSAPOINTED you.
but some of us work our ass off to come up with the best lyrics we can by meticulously combing over every precious word, spending hours and hours on our craft. I spend over 30 hours a week doing this and I have a full time job also as a computer technician. Plus I have a family. So when I see lyrical rubbish that I could of wrote when I was twelve it tends to flare my Hemorrhoids.
Yes Brian made a great point of not judging the art because its pointless.
But there is a bar of standards that most songwriters look at..
That's usually what's playing on the Radio.
I and others who focus on the lyrics don't feel this made the bar.
But the song did meet the two other bars.
one being melody line
and the other Vocal Likeability.
So I agree that "two out of three aint bad"
which coincidently has 2 out of three also.
So yes Brian did a positive thing by trying to change our thinking and focus on how the song got there and not whether it was worthy.
I still stand by my assesment that these lyrics suck and if I wrote them I would hope someone would tell me that they did..
Anyway Who Are you.. My Mother.
again Sorry to Disappoint you..
I'll be sure to get you a firckin Hallmark card.

DAvid

Who am I?
I'm someone who believes that a writers time is better spent writing than degrading someone elses work. The person who wrote this may have spent just as much time as you do on your work. Just because it dosnt meet yout criteria for good lyrics does not mean thay are not good lyrics. A writer,A publisher, a record label and an artist did their work and it paid off. Do you have a song that spent 35 weeks on the charts? I know that I dont. I'm sure that you work hard to come up with the very best that you can, so do I and so do most if not all of the writers here.
No need for a hallmark card. Just please dont critique any of my work with an I am better than you attitude. Now thats what sucks!
And no I am not your mother, nor am I trying to be.
My mother taught me that if you cant say something good about someone, it's best to say nothing at all.

Robert



[This message has been edited by palidin (edited 10-08-2004).]

sorry, posted twice! original is above.

[This message has been edited by palidin (edited 10-08-2004).]

touche on the mother line

Wow. Don't get your pants all in a bunch. Hm... Let's see.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You as well as I. "Beauty in the eye of the beholder" once again rings true. "My" opinion is that the lyrics I percieved are mediocre. Does it really matter? No. The song was on the charts for 35 weeks. Is my song on the charts? No. Do I work hard at song writing? Yes. Does it matter? I'm not sure. Have people critiqued a song of mine here in a favorable light? Yes, much to my delight. In an unfavorable light? OH YEA. I know, you expected me to be perfect. Sorry to dissapoint you. If you put your lyrics up here or anywhere else, it's gonna happen. Some will like it, some won't. It's opinion, not fact based. If it was, there would be a college course followed by a degree along with a job sitting in a cubicle writing songs for $6.50 an hour. Overtime during christmas hours of course.{It's not far off, is it?}

It's critique. Nothing more. Not founded in science. It's opinion. You have yours, I have mine. Sometimes the kitchen gets hot. Sometimes your co-writers will tell you honestly that he or she thinks your lyric stinks, fix it. Depending on the thickness of your skin, you either will use the advice, or won't based on your opinion that the lyric is sound, or not. If your lucky some how, you might have a song on the radio for 35 weeks that irritates and inspires people. That is a fact. It is what it is.


Welcome to the kitchen. They're serving lava today, I'm in, how about you? Lighten up a little.

Kris Karr

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/kriskarrmusic.htm