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Hello Again Folks!

How do you know if you're a songwriter?

I have searched out these boards and other sources of songwriting
information after some SERIOUS pushing by friends and family. As well
meaning as these people are, they are, in fact, friends and family, and
often those eyes are looking through rose colored glasses.

As I ask this question to you folks, my answer to myself is, "No, I'm NOT a
songwriter".

This past September, I had a very emotional experience that inspired my
first song, "But I'm Your Daddy, Shaylin" (posted in the lyric forum).
Friends and family all of a sudden started ranting and raving about how I
should do more song writing, but I just don't see it. I see my material as
extremely simple. While I see other songwriters painting pictures with
words.....I just spell it out on paper.

I have sought out a couple professional opinions, while in the production
of that first song (it was a Christmas present), but I can't help thinking
that again, their opinions were skewed because of the money I was paying
them.

For the record, I have always been insecure. It is a problem I have dealt
with my entire life. Since that first song, I wrote 3 more (Above All, Mr.
Music Man, and 10 by 15 Stall) all posted in the lyric forum. I tried to
follow a "standardized" format, and was very careful to make them much
shorter than my first. I got some feedback over there in the lyric forum,
but again.....everyone is so nice about the way they say things I am second
guessing yet again.

So.....please.....how do you know if you're a song writer? Or if you can't
answer that....please....tell me I am NOT a song writer. I am much too old
to start fantasizing that I am something that I am not.

Paul

Seems to me you're a songwriter if you have written songs (which you have), even if it's just a hobby. This is different from being a professional songwriter, for which somebody has to pay you for a song, and keep this up for more than one song. And different from being a recorded songwriter. And different still from being a good songwriter (judging by what appears on the radio these days).

Are you really looking for an answer to that last question?

-pd (also in NH, and got started older than you did)

[This message has been edited by pd (edited 01-21-2004).]

Thanks PD,

Yes.....I could not be more serious about wanting an honest answer to this question.

I work in a secure building and one of our security guards is a Sammy Davis Junior impersonator. The problem is that he has absolutely NO talent what-so-ever. (Tone deaf, no rhythm, no stage presence.)

Well meaning people have given this guy the impression that he is good, and then laugh at him as soon as he is out of earshot.

I don't want to be that guy.

I'm trying to figure out if I have the tools to become a GOOD songwriter. I don't have any professional aspirations, though the thought doesn't sound so bad either.

So, yes, it's true that I've written a few songs, and been complimented by friends. So, I guess I am "officially" a songwriter. What I need to know now, is are they laughing as soon as I am out of earshot!

Thanks!

Vash

Hi Paul...

I agree with pd. I very quickly read through some of your stuff in the Lyrics forum and my $.02 is that you have some talent. You have to be interested in developing it though. Only you can make that decision.

Good luck!!

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John

http://www.nowhereradio.com/johnscott/singles

Paul,
I agree with much of what the others have said.
Obviously, you've written songs thus you can claim the title, but the question you ask is probably asked by 75% of the people here who still don't have the answer for themselves!
I'm like you...I feel a total noob, boob, and amateur... because I AM!... LOL
But ya know, as long as you are enjoying it, keep with it. Keep on honing those skills, reviewing your own material, accepting critique if you seek it, making a more advanced effort each time.
AND, always keep it fun.
Ya know.. I got together a couple years ago to jam with a couple guys, one of them insisting that songwriting was a piece of cake, as he had piles of songs. In fact he DID have piles of paper, and he'd found the hard part was to put them to music.
I took a few home with me to give it a go.
In respect to him as a writer... NO... he was not a songwriter, and that's why it was impossible for me to apply a mood or melody to his material... it stunk. (for me, anyway)
But hey... if you are writing lyrics and applying music to them...yes..you are a songwriter, and all I can suggest is to enjoy it! Keep on keepin' on!
-Gary

Hey Paul,
It sounds like you've written a few songs for therapeutic reasons which is where a lot of songwriters get their start....trying to put down on paper in an artistic form their emotional turmoil....nothing wrong with that!

I don't think that your really asking if your a songwriter. I think your really asking yourself if you have the potential to become a good songwriter and you can't get that answer from anyone here.

Beginning songwriters create simple songs.....nothing wrong with that.

If you want to know if you have the potential to be a good songwriter, keep writing. No artform is perfected by an entry level student.

So keep writing Paul. If after writing a book of songs you don't get a lot of good response, then keep writing anyway as long as you enjoy doing it. That's the main thing. If it stops being fun to do, don't do it anymore.

Your at the best place to learn about the art so your starting out on the right foot.

Good luck!
Eric

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We are songwriters unless proven otherwise. Good luck all.

Dave

Hi - I noticed that a few of these posts are from New Hampshire. Am I the only one wondering what in the world I live here for? I guess the question really is - why do I stay here in the winter? Summer's great.
There is a NH songwriter's group that I have gone to only a few meetings of, because the drive was kind of far, but I found it to be a really nice group of people and a nice place to get feedback on your work. When i was there, some of the people were very new at songwriting and some had been at it for a while. Here is the email address of the woman who facilitates it: nesbittd@proctornet.ncom
Her name is Debra Alexander. If this email address doesn't work, let me know.
How do you know if you're a songwriter? Wow - what a question. And I don't think anyone will be able to answer it for you. It sounds like something that is just beginning to unfold for you. I find that my art is a mysterious, absolutely unique and personal path. It is an incredible teacher. When I try to figure it out - am I good? will I be "successful?" etc. etc. - I kind of short circuit. When someone tells me that a song I have written moves them and encourages me to do more, then as far as I'm concerned, I'm a songwriter and I keep going. Sounds like you're already there. I really empathize with your questions, I have gone through and continue to see many questions in the mirror that this art holds up. And I have found deep answers, too. Enjoy.
nadine
www.nadinelaughlin.com

Thank you for your continued replies!

Eric.....I think you nailed it right on the head!

The ONE song I first wrote, was exactly that...theraputic. I had a purpose in that song...I wanted that little girl to hear what I had to say about her someday.

The other few that I've played with have all been "simple ditty's" and I have had some fun with them, but you are dead on about the theraputic aspects.

I don't know if I am/will be a writer, but I think I'm going to look into it a little more deeply.

John, Gary, thanks for taking the time to look at what I've written.

Nadine...I have no idea why I live in this icebox we call New Hampshire. Hell, even the Old Man of the Mountain moved south! I have, however, promised myself that this will be the LAST winter I work in Boston.

Again, thank you all!

Paul

In playing upon what Eric offered, I'd suggest a whole lot of us are "in therapy"..LOL
JPF group therapy? ???
I think you'll find hundreds of lyrics on the review boards which will support that notion...so you are in great company.

I'm still trying to find a way to answer the question of when you'd know yourself to truly be a songwriter, and I cannot arrive at a solid answer.

One thing I notice about many of my own favorite songwriters is how simple so many of their songs appear. They make you feel stupid for not thinking of the approach they took towards the song...they make it look terribly easy. It almost appears as though you need to dumb-yourself-down in order to pull it off so easily.
And...it's not easy. It's a craft of boiling-down thoughts which would consume pages, (sometimes volumes), from the average author, and then condensing it into several brief lines. It's a craft of introspection of self, and empathy/insight of others. It's a craft of language, of psychology, and of artistic expression.
It's pretty kewl!

-gary

Paul,

You are what you BELIEVE you are. Accolades from friends, family and fellow songwriters is great for the ego, but the ultimate compliment has to come from within. Doesn't matter where you live, how much money you have, or if you speak 10 different languages--it matters that you believe in yourself and your talents.

If you write lyrics for a song, you are a songwriter (or lyricist if you wanna be technical.) If the rest of the world never knows that you wrote those words, but YOU know you did, and you're proud of what you accomplished, that is what matters on a personal level. Be a songwriter for yourself.

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Montez Simmons
Director, Carolina Music Industry Coalition
www.carolinamusicindustrycoalition.org
JPF-South Carolina (Columbia)

I can only speak from experience.

I knew I was a songwriter when I realized that I couldn't wake up one day and decide NOT to be. I couldn't NOT write songs, even if I tried.

when I got my first song published.. THEN I called myself a songwriter to people who asked me "what do you do?". But before that.. I just said.. oh "I write songs".. but I wouldn't give myself the TITLE until I had some written proof. haha

see we're all just as self-doubting as you... just keep at it..

Do you THINK you're a songwriter?
Have you written a song? Have you repeated the process to create other songs?
Has songwriting and all its accoutrements invaded your life?
Is your home filled with songwriting clutter?
Do people talk to you about your songs?
Are you always looking for song ideas or worrying about the quality of a phrase?
Have you ever heard anyone call you (or seen your name in print as) "songwriter"?

If you answered, "yes" to ANY of these questions...
Honey, you ARE a songwriter!!

Now, if you answered, "Yes" to ALL of the questions...then let's hope you're beginning to make money from your obsession, or you're GONNA need some therapy!!!

( Just "go for it" and have fun! )


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www.dianatyler.com

Uh-Oh....

I have all the symptoms doctor...but no scratch to show for it...give me some medicine. Maybe the cure is to write more songs?



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John

http://www.nowhereradio.com/johnscott/singles

My own gauge to the "Are You A Songwriter?" question is based upon one simple criterion:

Did something you wrote or composed interest another person enough to either:
a) collaborate with you, for free, to create a finished song (assuming you were not both lyricist and composer)
OR
b) use the material in a live venue and/or recording?

If the answer to a) is yes, then you're on your way, and if the answer to b) is yes, then you're a songwriter.

Note: if said artist who used the material wasn't a friend, relative, or acquaintance who owed you a favor, then you REALLY are a BONA FIDE songwriter!

Of course, this is a 'results based' gauge. Going with the "I've written some poems/lyrics" or "hummed tunes in my head" more liberal outlook, it's been scientifically proven that there are more songwriters than people.

I read once where someone's mentor said: "If paper cost $500 a ream, and pencils weighed 12 pounds, there'd be a lot fewer songwriters... and that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing."


[This message has been edited by RobertK (edited 01-27-2004).]

Anyone can be a songwriter but not everyone is a good songwriter. If people you don't know come up to you and say. "Cool song. Who wrote it?" or say, "Where can I buy a CD of those songs?" then you know you are in the ball park.

JeanB

Hey there,

I agree with all the replies here. You suffer from the same insecurities that so many of us do. I remember going to go see the Santa Clause 2 and Molly Shannon is a blind date for Santa who writes Christmas songs ala Shania Twain. Well, she was supposed to be awful and I just cringed, hoping I'm not deluding myself too. Now with that said, I have gotten enough feedback to encourage me to keep writing. My final thoughts on this subject are this...

The more you believe you are are a songwriter, the more you tell others that you are, the more that you look at the world with "songwriter glasses" on, the better songwriter you will become. So go ahead and say it, "My name is Paul, and I am a songwriter." After all, admiting it is the first step to recovery.

Keep posting,
Ashleigh

You know you're a songwriter when you create a new song, including lyric and melody. Some, obviously, are better than others. Writing words only, makes you a poet, and possibly a lyricist, if the work lends itself well to a melody. Some musicians are proficient at writing melodies, arrangements and orchestrations, but don't even try putting lyrics to their compositions, so they are really more composers than songwriters.

In my opinion, the more you know about all the elements needed to create a song, the better.

P.E. Knudsen

Vashtor

You mentioned that you felt you may be too old to get into songwriting. I'm in my fifties and find that being older can sometimes be an advantage because us older folks have a lot of life's experiences to
draw on. I am a songwriter, so are you!
As far as being professional, there are many
gifted people (many on this forum) that just
have not had the breaks. In the meantime I'm
going to read books on the subject and learn from the other writers on this forum.
AS far as critiques are concerned, I try to learn from them. Most people on this forum
do everything to help.

Keep on writing,

Mike Claxton

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