JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Fake Country Accents

Absolutely. Why you ask? My feeling is there are very few emotions in life when you get right down to it and we all as humans feel every one at certain times. All songs are really about are these limited emotions. So we can write about good times, bad times, sad times, fun times, funny times, etc., and just fill in the blanks with a charter or two. I'm not faking it when I write about a a situation I was never in, I'm applying an emotion that is relevant to everyone to a story about life. But what does that have to do with blatantly faking like you have a country accent when you don't? I mean it's not against the law, you can do it, but isn't it strange to have someone belt out a number with a thick country drawl then walk off stage and talk like a Californian?

If I was from NY and came to Nashville and purposely started talking with a thick country type accent, wouldn't that strike you as strange? wouldn't you think, this girls got some problems, why is she pretending to talk like that? is she trying to fit in, isn't she comfortable in her own skin? Why doesn't she just be herself? Don't you think that would reflect bad on me, as in dishonest, trying to pull the wool over your eyes, like I'm one of you?

What's the difference when it's done in a song? If you don't have a country accent, you dont' have one. you can fake it all you want, it doesn't make it so and it doesn't make it real or honest.

You shouldn't purposely try to make your voice sound like BB King, because that's not you, that's FAKING it. The only load here is the load of people who don't understand what being themselves means.

RIGHT ON!

Spend a little time on soundclick and listen to some of the stuff people classify as country. Maybe if they put a little country in their voices it might be a little more convincing.

Patty, I actually agree with you to a certain extent. I don't think someone should pretend to sing in a way that is not natural sounding. But I do believe that if the singer can sing with an accent and make it sound natural, they should do it if the song calls for it.

As others have mentioned, people who sing opera or in a foreign language try to sound authentic. I woudn't want to hear someone sing an aria with a southern twang. At the same time, I don't think a southern accent is necessary in a country song unless it's a certain style of country (even then not always necessary).

I think what underlies the whole discussion is whether a person is being "fake" in order to sell music rather than being "fake" in order to convey the emotion of the song. And I do believe there is a difference. If the latter is the case, the person should at least sound authentic or someone should tell them not to try.

Even in movies, I'd rather have someone speak in their natural voice rather that attempt an accent that just sounds fake. However, if the actor is very good at it, I'd enjoy the movie more if they could pull off the appropriate accent.

What I think makes a great singer is someone who can adapt their voices to carry a particular emotion in a song. Not everyone can do it but those who can are truly gifted. In the end, we all decide what we like anyway so I guess it's a moot discussion anyway.

But you sure did get a lot of replies for a moot discussion so who am I to say?

Who cares. Authenticity is overrated.

You must be one helluva songwriter with that attitude!

Nope. I just don't care if someone sings with a fake accent or not. If I like the song, I like the song, period.

I have a word to describe people who care more about the authenticity of the singer's voice than the song itself. I call them "snobs." And I find that a lot of these "snobs" are actually failed musicians and singers who are angry and jealous because someone else is making tons of money by "faking it."

Not that I'm calling you a snob, pattycakes. You're obviously among the intellectual elite and wouldn't stoop to any sort of name-calling.

[This message has been edited by scottandrew (edited 04-01-2004).]

Some great actors can only play themselves. Katharine Hepburn, for instance. But some, the great "character actors", can play any sort of person and completely hide their own personality, accent, and appearance. Dustin Hoffman, for instance.

We can appreciate both kinds, if they are good at it.

You guys are pathidic! Real pros you guys are!

Hi Brian honey

Hey all,
Michael H here,
Ultimately, I feel if you deliver the song and it is heartfelt, there you go. That in itself is the hardest task. Isn't that why we choose to be Songwriters? Got in a little hurry there. Got's to keep your diction straight don't ya know. You'all are a tough crowd I tell you what...


[This message has been edited by Michael H (edited 04-02-2004).]

Wow, watching Patty turn into Justin was like that scene in the Crying Game. Here Patty was the real fake all along.

Mike "pathidic" Dunbar


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Mike Dunbar Music

Hey Truman-
You stole my lines- just kiddin'.
I have one too- another example, that is-
Two white artists "icons" in the industry, currently topping the charts- doing rap, and hip/hop-
Who else?
Kid Rock, and Eminem (M&M).

Cal

I don't know what the deal is here lately that every post on here has to become a war. Shouldn't this be just a little more positive?

In defense of the human voice and as a musician/ singer/ songwriter/ husband and father of two. The voice is no less an instrument than a guitar, drum kit, etc... And if that instrument can be used to embelish a lyric in a way to make the song & performance better by "acting" if you will, if you can, use it. If you tune a drum down in pitch beyond the normal range, is that cheating somehow? I think not.

I am influenced by many artists and am not afraid to learn from their techniques. Including accent. I tend to try to get as much impact out of a lyric by pronoucing words a certain way that will suit my voice and make the song work. If that's called "acting", well, I guess I'll go with it. I sing my songs the way I want to. It's me. I've been told that at times, I sound like James Taylor, the Beatles {I don't get it either, I grew up in Iowa} Clapton, Glen Fry, and Dwayne Allman. I think I just sound like me. You tell me? Is it so wrong to enjoy the way another person sings enough to emulate it a little? I don't think so. I enjoy singing. I don't think I'm great at it, but, I seem to get the job done. I hope.

Kris Karr

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/kriskarrmusic.htm

Kris,

The problem is a common thread currently called Justin, but also called many other things over the last few years. (with different genders and different psychotic moods). He's easy to ignore most of the time, but does one thing in his miserable life pretty well.. make people dislike him. In that he's very successful.

Now back to our regular programming.

Brian

Here's my take on this. I think singers and musicians have a tendency to be somewhat eclectic. We rely a lot on what we hear and reproduce it with varying degrees of accuracy. I don’t think it’s preposterous at all that a singer from, say California, that has listened to Country music all is life would develop a Country music like accent in his singing. In fact, it seems quite natural to me.

I was raised in Minnesota and I will admit to not being a big fan of Country music until a bit later in my life. I am now a HUGE fan of current AND classic Country music BTW. When if first got turned on to Country and immersing myself in it and eventually started to sing it, I was told by others that I started to develop a slight twang in my delivery. I wasn’t trying to do this and frankly, I didn’t even notice it. It seemed natural to me. I now live in Nashville. Although, I haven’t really heard it being that pronounced, I have been told that since I moved down here I talk differently and actually sing even more differently than I used to. Am I being dishonest in my vocal approach? I sure don’t think so. I’m just singing (actually still trying to develop my own style which I’m not 100% happy with at this point but this has more to do with technique and tone than anything else).

I think it is difficult to make a blanket statement about how someone sings based on where they were raised and make it stick. Especially in world we live in today. The world has shrunk to such an extent that we are all exposed to exponentially more influences than we were 20 years ago. Including speech and verbal styles/accents. Heck, lily white 14 year olds in Minneapolis are talking like black gang bangers from LA. ‘Sup wit’ dat?

(meant to be funny – if it isn’t…please forgive)

That is all


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John

http://www.johnkscott.com

John-
You said it all-
Very well stated.

Cal

The irony of this whole thing is that Patty, who started this thread by insisting that those who sing with an affected accent are faking and selling out, and who is a self-described 38 year old mother of two, is actually a man. He's a guy who has trolled this site for years popping up to discredit Brian and to put down Taxi. He's now Justin.

I hope anyone who agreed with Patty will look at this as an example of "argumentum ad hominem." Good art exists apart from the artist. Do you like the Mona Lisa? Would you like it if I told you that Leonardo da Vinci beat his mother? Would you then like it again if I told you I made that up? Don't be manipulated. It would be easy to start a rumor that George Strait was born in New York City. The point is, it doesn't really matter where the artist was born, what they sound like when they speak conversationally, what color they are, what really matters is the music.

Now, there is a side issue of support for the artist. You may decide you do not want to support an artist for some political or moral reason. That's fine and still logical, but it also does not make the artist's product "bad," simply undesireable for your political, or moral reason. If you simply don't like the art, then you criticize the art. If you don't like the artist, then you criticize the artist, but logic determines that you can't critize one by finding fault with the other. It's apples and oranges.

All the Best,
Mike

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Mike Dunbar Music

Very interesting. . .

Regardless of the original motive behind the discussion, it has been mildly amusing. I'll add one more little thing, kind of in the same vein of reality vs. make-believe in music and performance.

One of my old songs is a bluegrassy, uptempo folky tune from the point of view of a farmer who works land near a river. In this song, the farmer's grandmother had a brother who died in a flood long ago(it's really not the main point of the song, just a minor plot note). Once after performing this song, I was approached by a woman who asked whether it was a true story. Meaning, did my own grandmother's brother die in a flood.

Though parts of the song were based on places and people I knew, I told her that, no, the incident was all "made up." She was actually offended and almost angry with me, as if I had deceived her somehow.

When I realized she was actually serious, I was a little shocked and didn't quite know how to respond. Later that evening, I thought back on it and was somewhat amused that she would think every single thing in every song is true. That's the response I'm now feeling to much of the above furious rhetoric.

"a tale told by a madman,
full of sound and fury,
and signifying .....?"

On the plus side, I guess I "sold" the story pretty well, eh? Guess in some eyes that makes me a very dangerous character.

Whatever.


G

Thank you Brian and Mike for stting me strait.

I guess one could end the topic with a question.

"Could we learn to speak and understand one another with out teachers to imitate?"

Kris Karr

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/everywednesdaymusic.htm

Well, well well,
that was a boat rocker discussion. I guess Patty Cakes, aka, Justine, got us all to hammer the point home. I think all of you are on the same page and I am having a great time doing the boards. I got so involved in this the last couple days, I got a little behind on studio projects!
Michael H.

It's easy to do, Mike. I read a lot of the threads, but I personally try to subscribe to the "in and out, nobody gets hurt" philosophy. Albeit entertaining as all, it's pretty easy to get sucked in and taken for a ride.

Just make sure you're wearing your seatbelt. =D

Cheers,

Rodney

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http://hugheymusic.com

This was wonderful!!! All the earmarks of a truly-inspired satire...(and, much more refreshing than that guy who thinks Springsteen is God).

I was actually going to join in with my own perspective--that of an Air Force brat who took on every regional accent he moved to, until he had none. I use the accent that I've heard the song sung in...I don't think that's being untrue at all...it just is that way, for me...same when I'm talking to someone with an accent, whatever it may be...after about 5 minutes, I'm speaking that way, too...it's natural, for me..!



[This message has been edited by Bluepoet (edited 04-03-2004).]

Jeez why is everyone beating up on Pattycakes. I'm almost scared to join in here, but I'll give it a shot.
Bruce Springstien is an interesting artist for someone to bring up, a guy from Jersey who talked like he was from Jersey, and sang like he was from jersey, and acted like he was from jersey, and wrote many of his songs about Jersey, and he realy was from jersey and still lives there. There is something emotionaly apealing about him being true to himself and who he is as there was with Hank Williams and others as well no doubt. Then there are those who don't write there own songs don't play an instrument don't care to sound like themselves and think that if they sounded like themselves no one would like them or buy there recordings. Are they actors .....sure appears that way, calling them fakes may sound derogatory, many of them seem to sing very well like Kieth Urban and Gary Allen great Singers, Entertainers, Actors, absolutely and they help keep songwriters employed I enjoy Gary Allen very much but I personaly would never refer to him as an artist. The true artists are the ones who wrote the songs that he acts out.To me that is the fake when these guys who are actors are presented as artists when the only songs they write end up as album filler.
Oh sure I understand everyones very logical arguments about why it's OK for them to sing with fake accents and all the logical arguments are correct and make all the sense in the world, but they don't make Pattycakes emotional plea and desire for a little more honesty in this seemingly plastic world any less compeling.
In a way I can see both sides of the argument, now I guess I realy need some time for some real introspection. I have long considered this issue for myself and my own singing and on my first CD I sang with my own accent partly because I wanted to be true to myself and partly because I wasn't sure if I would be convincing with a southern accent.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/kennyholcomb.htm

Oh BTW Pattycakes, Garth Brooks was from Oklahoma and he sang with an Oklahoma Accent I know becouse my Mom was born and rasied in Stillwater OK which is where Garth is from.

What'da ya'll talkin' 'bout? :0

Liszt, thanks for the levity!

I suppose a song which comes to my mind in this conversation might be the John Prine and Iris Demente duo of "In Spite of Ourselves"
Find me two singers with grander accents, I dare ya.
But if you ever become familiar enough with the song (or enjoy it enough) to perform it, I would CHALLENGE you to pull it off with a non-southern accent. Doing so would brutally suck, as the accent is an essential element of the song.
-gary

Now, Iris Dement is a great singer and artist in my opinion. I have to admit, though, that for some time I was under the impression that she was from California. Thinking that, it amazed me that she could sing the way she did. When I finally found out she was originally from Paragould, Arkansas, her accent became much more understandable.

Randy

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http://www.songramp.com/homepage.ez?Who=RandyB

(Buzz replies in his best Elvis voice)
Thank you, thank you very much.

Speaking of Elvis, I have a confession to make. I like to sing Karaoke (so shoot me ).

It just happens that my natural singing voice is such that when I sing some Elvis songs, I tend to sound a little like him - sometimes, a lot like him. I don't intentionally try to immitate Elvis (I'm so sick of Elvis immitators) but some of his songs just don't sound right unless you use some of the vocal inflections that he used.

Is this a bad thing? I don't think so but I certainly don't try to sound like an Elvis immitator. I just like singing a few of his songs. Having said that, I'd be willing to bet that many of the untrained ears in a Karaoke audience think I'm trying to sound like Elvis. I wonder how many of them roll their eyes and think I sound fake? Not that it really matters all that much in the end but it does make for an interesting discussion.

Van

That was my first thought-

LOL...

I guess Country music goes well with that accent...I personaly love it...I wish we could fake it when we sing if its possible to do...I don't really mind if people that sing Country fake it or do it naturaly...the accent is just so cool and good to my ear...love...

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And..."Don't give up, give Love"..:)

Briggitte...JBLOVE
JBLOVE at IUMA
JBLOVE at Soundclick
JBLOVE at Songramp