Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.
By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
Since Russia invaded Ukraine life in Europe has changed. Russian angst is dominating the minds of the Europeans. And now that Trump has changed American international politics, putting money first, things have gotten even worse. I wish the Western World could reunite again and make our countries a safer place to live. This song describes the situation from a European’s perspective. In Suno I used the following prompts: anthemic, catchy, singer-songwriter, male vocals, layered harmonies, melodic, minimal, melancholic.
[Verse] Cold winds rising, whispers haunt the night Ghosts of history awaken, waiting for the fight Steel tracks echo, a warning of the past A shadow looms, how long can peace last?
[Pre-chorus] Moldova holds its breath, the Baltic Sea runs cold Maps are redrawn again, just like we were told If the eagle folds its wings and leaves the world to fate Who will stand against the storm before it is too late?
[Chorus] Are we standing here alone? Will the West turn away? If the wolves breach the border, who will make them pay? A silence in the distance, a whisper in the dark The world holds its breath, will they strike the first spark? Shadows on the border, shadows on the border
[Verse] Propaganda weaves its chains, twisting truth to lies Shadows pull the strings with watchful, waiting eyes They light the match in silence, let the chaos burn Divide and turn, divide and turn, when will we ever learn?
[Pre-chorus] Berlin watches nervously, Paris plays for time London sends its warnings, but no one draws the line If the eagle folds its wings and leaves the world to fate Who will stand against the storm before it is too late?
[Chorus] Are we standing here alone? Will the West turn away? If the wolves come for the border, who will make them pay? A silence in the distance, a whisper in the dark The world holds its breath as they strike the first spark Shadows on the border, shadows on the border
[Bridge] Footsteps marching closer, a future left unknown Do we fight or do we fall? Do we stand or turn to stone? The clock is slowly ticking, yet no one says a word In the frozen silence, warning cries go unheard
[Interlude]
[Chorus] Are we standing here alone? Will the West turn away? If the wolves come for the border, who will make them pay? A silence in the distance, a whisper in the dark The world holds its breath as they strike the first spark Shadows on the border, shadows on the border
[Outro] Shadows on the border, creeping through the night If history's repeating—will we run or will we fight? Shadows on the border, shadows on the border
Rob, Enjoyed your song. I knew that I would because I always do.
I think that I disagree with your premis though.... Trump is a disrupter and a very bumpy ride. However, the other day I saw a chart concerning NATO countries allocations for defense since Trump started insulting them. They have mostly chipped in some extra cash to get to 2% and some are talking about 5%. Trump (and Russia) are clearly the catalyst for that.
Pax Americana has been a general pause in the history of all-out wars since WW2. Sadly the world is returning to a more typical state of affairs. The Europeans have always hammered the hell out of each other, and the US gets drawn in. I'm happy that Trump is not eager to be drawn in.
Nonetheless, nice song and I respect your opinion.
Hey Marty, I’m glad you liked the song. Thanks for the feedback.
According to the NATO contract everybody in Europe has to pay their 2% of GDP. I’m absolutely fine with that. Trump is now asking for 5%. That’s why some European countries are talking and even doing 5% (Denmark, but that’s a different story … they have to make sure nobody invades Greenland). America spends around 3.5% of their GDP for defense, not the 5% he’s asking for. And now Trump calls for Ukraine to pay the U.S. $2 for each dollar in aid the U.S. has sent to Kyiv to fight Russia’s invasion. That’s what European’s call putting money first. It’s not about the people or democracy. If they don’t pay, he’ll let Russia overrun them. That would be a very bad deal for America because Russia would then get the minerals Trump is after. European countries payed more in military aid to Ukraine to fight Russia than America did! As far as I know, Europe is getting no payback for their contributions. To top it all off Trump recently said Ukraine started the war, which is absolutely ridiculous. I said I wrote this from a European perspective and with the combination of Trump and Putin, Europe is feeling way more insecure. I understand that you don’t want America to be drawn in. If that is what most Americans think then Trump should shut NATO down and close all the American Air Bases in Europe and let whoever wants to, take over Europe. But I’m not sure that’s what Trump wants. Who knows. Anyway, Germany felt pretty secure these past decades. I know, because I lived there. Things are changing rapidly. This is not an anti-Trump song, it’s about Russian angst.
Rob On the numbers, I'm not sure how they shake out, but I'm fine with Trump shaking that tree and I don't expect him to do it flawlessly. Ukraine has a problem. They share a border with Russia and they hate each other. Wash DC is 4900 miles to Kyiv. Moscow is 470 miles to Kyiv. 470 miles wont even get you close to New Mexico from my house. It's about 490 miles from NYC to Raleigh Durham, NC.
Putin has grabbed what he intends to keep and unless the US gets in the war, that won't change. The choices appear to be accept that and work out a negotiated peace or continue to deficit fund a country that was considered too corrupt for the EU or NATO, but now is presented as a savior of democracy...and has no viable path to victory.
I never know what's true, but I read an article today that Ukraine was sending amputees back to the front. I'm sure that they would take you too. But I dont plan to be there. (all meant in light banter)
Hi Elvis, I see what you're saying. But ... in this case there is no solution. Just think, if your neighbor took a piece of your yard away from you with force and every time you go over to his house to take it back you hit him in the face and he hits you. Now Trump comes and tells you that you have to give up that piece of your yard to stop the fighting between the two of you. In the end you have to give up your land and pay Trump. To me, that doesn't sound like a good solution. I'd say that if your neighbor doesn't give you your land back, you can't reach an agreement. One guy wins, the other loses. The thing is, and here is where my song kicks in, the winner (Putin) might feel encouraged to do the same thing again and again. What worked once, might work a second or third time. That is why Europe is so scared.
Marty, the distances you mentioned made me laugh. Like I said, if Europe is too far away then why not let Putin take it ... all of it. Putin already said that he wants Eastern Germany back again. Ukraine is not the only country with a joint Russian borderline. America doesn't need Europe to become great again. Musk will surely notice that the U.S. is spending a fortune on the many military bases alone in Germany. America could save so much money if they could just work out a good deal with Russia and hand over Europe (all meant in light banter). Trump doesn't own Europe but he doesn't own Ukraine either and he's making a deal with Putin anyway. The whole situation is pretty fu**ed up. I still live over there part time and I have family and close friends there. I wrote this song because the whole situation makes me feel sad.
Hi Elvis, I see what you're saying. But ... in this case there is no solution. Just think, if your neighbor took a piece of your yard away from you with force and every time you go over to his house to take it back you hit him in the face and he hits you. Now Trump comes and tells you that you have to give up that piece of your yard to stop the fighting between the two of you. In the end you have to give up your land and pay Trump. To me, that doesn't sound like a good solution. I'd say that if your neighbor doesn't give you your land back, you can't reach an agreement. One guy wins, the other loses. The thing is, and here is where my song kicks in, the winner (Putin) might feel encouraged to do the same thing again and again. What worked once, might work a second or third time. That is why Europe is so scared.
All the best - Robert
Yeah I get it Rob , I don't follow the merry go around bullshit , I don't write em
We’re all built from the same dust and dreams, Different roads, but the same means.
Rob, Trump doesnt call me and tell me what he has in mind, but here is a reasonable hunch...
End Pax Americana. Get Europe, Canada, Ukraine, Israel and everyone else to quit defaulting heavily to the US war dept. They all beef up their own defenses. Revise NATO to become more than an entity that blows a whistle and summons the US armed forces. Once done, get a geopolitical/weapons system in place that contains the Rooskies...where everyone puts skin in the game.
Then there are two major concerns #1 the geo-political competition between the West and a massive and growing Chinese army and military force. #2 A cornered Putin or Israel and their nuclear weapons.
When Sting wrote this, things were much scarier than they are now. Much..."I hope the Russians love their children too."
#3 Wild cards in the deck, Nuclear Pakistan and India.
Rob, End Pax Americana. Get Europe, Canada, Ukraine, Israel and everyone else to quit defaulting heavily to the US war dept. They all beef up their own defenses. Revise NATO to become more than an entity that blows a whistle and summons the US armed forces. Once done, get a geopolitical/weapons system in place that contains the Rooskies...where everyone puts skin in the game.
Dream on ...
Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
Then there are two major concerns #1 the geo-political competition between the West and a massive and growing Chinese army and military force. #2 A cornered Putin or Israel and their nuclear weapons. When Sting wrote this, things were much scarier than they are now. Much..."I hope the Russians love their children too." #3 Wild cards in the deck, Nuclear Pakistan and India.
The Russians don't love their children. That's one of the problems. That's why Sting wrote that line. I don't agree with you here Marty. For Europe things are much scarier today. Gorbachev was the leader of Russia when Sting released that song. He was a good guy. Under him Germany was able to reunite. He broke the USSR into smaller entities. Putin wants to reverse all of that. Germany celebrated back then. Today is totally different. Like I said, I'm looking at this stuff from a European perspective.
Rob, I'll dream on then because I don't think that the US becoming committed to whatever it takes to expel Russia from Ukraine will be an available option.
So I have no choice but wait and watch. Not very likely Trump will call me and ask me what to do.
This morning the following popped up in my youtube feed. Let me know what you think is wrong about it. Also, I did not know that the Russians do not love their children. Can you elaborate on that? Marty
This morning the following popped up in my youtube feed. Let me know what you think is wrong about it. Also, I did not know that the Russians do not love their children. Can you elaborate on that? Marty
Wow, that guy can talk. The way he explains it sounds pretty good, doesn’t it. You asked me for my opinion. Think of it this way. Assume Mexico would use military force and take control over parts of Texas. America would fight back and there would be heavy losses on both sides. After 3 years a European leader would step in and say this war must end. Too many innocent people have lost their lives. The solution: America would have to give up parts of Texas and pay Europe for finally achieving peace. That is basically what Rubio is suggesting in Ukraine. Ukraine is so rich, they don’t need any financial help for rebuilding. Russia now “owns” the parts that were totally destroyed. It will cost Russia a fortune to rebuild those areas. Another thing that Rubio doesn’t mention is that the valuable minerals are on the Russian side of Ukraine. Trump has to strike a deal with Russia if he wants those minerals. I have no idea how that is going to work and i don't understand what the final deal will look like. In WW2 Germany had to pay huge amounts of money to other countries that they destroyed. Germany was the aggressor. Trump wants Ukraine to pay. That’s why he says that Ukraine started the war. Another BIG lie. We all know they didn’t. All they did was defend themselves. But Rubio did a great job on making a bad deal for Ukraine sound good, especially for the Americans. My song looks at what is going on from a different perspective, a European perspective. I mentioned that. One more thing: history shows that it’s impossible to make deals with Russia. Ukraine did in the 90s. They handed over all their nuclear weapons to Russia. Both sides signed a contract. What a mistake.
Russia forced their own troops, untrained 16-year old kids, to walk through Ukraine fields without cover so they could see where the Ukraine soldiers were hiding when they shot the Russian kids down. When they ran out of their own kids they used North Koreans. Human life is not worth much in Russia. I wasn't there but the BBC and other news channels explained the Russian war tactics.
I would enjoy talking more about the song and less about politics.
Rob Rubio is a politician, but he didnt say a lot and what he did say sounded fairly grounded to me. And I don't need any persuading that many Russians are bat-sh+t-crazy.
In my personal opinion, Ukraine did not start the war, but they engaged in provocations that goaded the Russians and set the stage for Putin's invasion. That conclusion doesnt come from anything that I have ever seen Zelensky say. A few years back, well before the invasion, I saw a video of VP Biden in Ukraine shooting his mouth off, like a bar room drunk, that the US had Ukraine's back come hell or high water from the Russians.
I thought at the time...Why is that phuque Biden being so publicly provocative. Then I would learn that he planted his drug addict son in Ukraine to bag money as a Burisma board member. Clearly the Ukrainians were paying for US access and air cover. When Trump shined a light on it, he was impeached.
I don't know what Putin may do going forward. But I do believe that breaking him loose from his gains in what is said to be largely Russian-speaking areas, is not very likely to happen. And I firmly believe that American soldiers should not be going there, or American weaponry, until every male Ukrainian ends up a casualty as a consequence.
Is there a risk? Yes. Russia may go into Finland and then land an invasion force at Cape Hatteras, but I see that at less than a coin toss. Ukraine is hopelessly corrupt now and always will be.
And as you stated in your Mexico comparison, Russia is right there. That is a reality for everyone to recognize and deal with.
Hi Marty, I don't know what news sources you have but just to set things straight. Russia started invading Ukraine in 2014. Long before Biden was President. Obama and Trump didn't do anything about it. Trump asked Zelensky to uncover dirt on Biden's son. Nobody could find anything. You say Trump shined a light on it. No, he spread lies about it and was impeached for putting Zelensky under pressure. You have your news sources and I have others. In the end he was impeached, so he must have done something wrong, I guess ... If your solution to the problem in Ukraine is not supporting Ukraine until every male Ukrainian is a casualty, man that is a pretty cruel thought. Is there a risk? Sure. Putin already said which countries are on his list. They include ex-Eastern Germany. My best friends who live there are filing for a Green Card. America will have migrants like never before. I'm going to end this discussion. It's getting too political for me. I love all you guys here. You are talented songwriters and I don't care what news you watch, which God you believe in or if you're male, female or diverse.
You say Trump shined a light on it. No, he spread lies about it and was impeached for putting Zelensky under pressure. You have your news sources and I have others. In the end he was impeached, so he must have done something wrong, I guess ...
You see a Po-Tot-o and I see a Po-tay-to. Of course the pressure was implied with Zelensky. Happens all day every day. Trump asked Zelensky exactly what I think that he should have. Biden and his druggie son never really answered for any of it. Impeachment was another thing that undid the dimocrats.
Originally Posted by Rob B.
If your solution to the problem in Ukraine is not supporting Ukraine until every male Ukrainian is a casualty, man that is a pretty cruel thought. Is there a risk? Sure. Putin already said which countries are on his list.
I did not say that. You misconstrued my wording. I edited that to make it clearer. I'm a realist. Putin's invasion of Ukraine has been costly to him. He's not going to give up what he has taken. Most of the people in the area appear to be Russian speakers. Concede it to him. Negotiate an end to the war. Stop the dying and destruction. Keep the US out of an ongoing sh+tstorm. Try to stabilize that scenario.
Ps...If Putin were to go for Germany, then we would be in that war. Putin needs war to stop.
Originally Posted by Rob B.
I'm going to end this discussion. It's getting too political for me.
Okay also, 30 trillion cells in my body, give or take. Each one has 23 pairs of chromosomes. One pair of those 23 contains an X and a Y chromosome. That's me. External attachments or severances or high-heeled shoes are not going to change that.
Trump asked Zelensky exactly what I think that he should have.
Zelensky asked Trump for help because Putin had already invaded parts of his country and they knew Putin wanted more. Trump pressured Ukraine and other foreign governments to cooperate in investigating conspiracy theories concerning American politics. Trump blocked but later released payment of a congressionally mandated $400 million military aid package to allegedly obtain quid pro quo cooperation from Zelensky. Sorry, but that has nothing to do with the America I grew up in.
Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
I'm a realist. Putin's invasion of Ukraine has been costly to him. He's not going to give up what he has taken. Most of the people in the area appear to be Russian speakers.
I live in Southwest Florida. Very many of the people in the area are Spanish speaking people. In your opinion, what does that mean for the area I live in? People speak English in Great Britain and Australia too. Are the British Americans. Are the Americans British? You lost me here.
Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
Ps...If Putin were to go for Germany, then we would be in that war. Putin needs war to stop.
Marty, that is exactly what I'm scared of. If that happens, my kids and grand children are in great danger. Putin needs to be stopped before he crosses the border. A strong western alliance is what is necessary. That worked for decades.
Marty, that is exactly what I'm scared of. If that happens, my kids and grand children are in great danger. Putin needs to be stopped before he crosses the border. A strong western alliance is what is necessary. That worked for decades.
Rob You and I arent going to agree on this. My opinion is that neither one is privy to enough actual facts to debate it with any certainty.
A strong Western Alliance in the last several decades has actually meant someone on the other side of the world blowing a whistle to summon the American military to some war that is thousands of miles from our nearest coast. A bunch of expensive, no-win, perma-wars often to liberate people who view us contemptuously. We're tapped out and have financed this stuff with debt, as the debt service on our own debt hits 1 trillion dollars and is still climbing.
Europe needs to pull more weight. The only person in my lifetime who has dared to say that is Trump. That and his stated aversion for foreign wars was one of the reasons that he got my vote. You worried about his tweets, insults, exaggerations, odd statements and narcissism. I worried about foreign wars and drug cartels in the country.
My feeling is that you are allowing yourself to be ramped up too much. You wont be deported. I and many other people want to see if Ukraine can be de-escalated with meetings in conference rooms. If that doesnt work and Putin invades Germany, the US will go to war...but I doubt that will happen. So I'm not gonna light my hair on fire because it might.
We're both starting to reach and repeat. Take the last word and let's relax.
Your amateur song-writer internet pal,
Marty
Ps...People who share a common language and geographic proximity are going to more-than-likely have an affinity. I know that you can google examples contrary, but I personally believe that to be a fairly accurate statement about eastern border Ukraine.
Marty, we don’t have to agree on anything. We think differently. That’s ok. I accept and respect your opinions and I’m so glad you think the same.
Since you offered me the last word, here’s what I would like to say. Europe will never be able to defend themselves if they are attacked by Russia. You say if Putin invades Germany, America will come to the rescue. As you correctly said, America is pretty far away from Europe. It will be interesting to see how they do that if Russia bombs the U.S. military bases in Europe and cuts the communication lines with their submarines.
Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
I worried about foreign wars and drug cartels in the country.
I’m with you here 100%. I too am worried about drugs in this country, especially because Trump just pardoned Ross Ulbricht. Have you ever heard of him? Ross created and operated the darknet market Silk Road. That was one of the biggest American marketplaces that facilitated the trade of drugs. Ross also committed computer hacking and money laundering and sold stolen passports. Silk Road was used by thousands of drug dealers, distributing drugs to more than 100.000 buyers totaling more than 200 million dollars. Ross was basically one of the biggest drugs dealers in our country. In 2015 he was sentenced to double life in prison plus 40 years. Trump gave him a full and unconditional pardon. Ross can now go back to the darknet and sell drugs again. I’m with you Marty, yes, I’m worried.
By the way, I just heard that Musk is not the head of DOGE anymore, he’s not even a DOGE employee. Was he fired? I don’t know. I just heard it in the news. DOGE just deleted the five biggest cuts they celebrated last week. Why does Musk have access to all that highly classified government data? You know, if Biden had done something like that, Republicans would have toasted him. I have no idea where this country is heading to. I shouldn't watch TV anymore.
OMG Marty, I thought you gave me the last word but now you posted this piece of BS that I have to comment. What did you post here? You heard him. He confirmed what I wrote. Elon Musk is not the head of DOGE. He is not even an employee. That is exactly what I wrote. “You can call him a patriot!” He’s nothing more, nothing less. Trump says, you can call him whatever you want. That is what Trump said. What do you call Musk? Call him whatever you want… I won’t tell you what I think Musk is. And Trump gives this patriot access to all this confidential data? OMG! Marty, I can't believe what are you posting here? Those social security payments that Trump mentioned... Do you really believe that BS? Ok, Marty, Social Security benefits are being paid since 1940, since just 85 years! Do you really think that thousands of dead people filed for Social Security and got away with it? How did they do that? They were dead! Please tell me! Listen to what Trump said: “I wonder if people are being paid with all this. Are these checks and that’s what we are checking right now.” What? Listen closely! He’s not saying anything. His grammatic is pretty bad but I think everybody knows what he's saying. You are hearing things that he is not saying. Can he prove that dead people are getting checks? No! He has numbers written on a sheet of paper. Come on Marty. How can you post this BS? They aren’t getting social security benefits. That’s exactly what he said, but you “hear” things that he wants you to hear. “One person is 360 years old.” Wow! This is ridiculous! The USA is 249 years old! SS is being paid since 85 years and we have one person who is 360 years old. Trump said “that’s just that”??? What?? “That’s just that?” Marty, come on. What is he talking about??? Sorry Marty, you should listen to what our President says. Listen closely. How can people file for SS 200 years after they died Come on Marty, you've got a brain. Use it. He talked for a long time but he didn’t say anything. Feel free to tell me why you posted this clip. Peace - Robert
Please buy two or three fire extinguishers and have one with you at all times, because your hair spontaneously combusts every time you see Trump's picture. One of the main reasons that Trump is back in office is because people such as yourself go all Chicken-Little in flames every time he says something. The incessant over-reacting, crying wolf and blowing up things like the Zelensky call into an impeachment trial, did not play well ...and re-elected him. (Joe and Kamala were a help)
If you listen, Trump said that dead people were on the rolls. Beyond that he doesnt know what is being paid out, but I personally have no doubt that there are some relatives cashing some dead people's SoSec checks. Would not be hard. Dismissing it as bullsh+t is self-defeating for you Trump-haters.
And I personally have no doubt that SoSec books and many many things in the fed govt are a mess and need someone to straighten them out. Musk is a South African, via Canada and then a US citizen. As a Texan, I have no doubt that the government funding is a corrupted mess and I am fine with Donald Trump assigning Musk to uncover it...as long as I'm looking at the truth.
I don't think that Musk is going to need to distort and inflate the corruption that will be found. Musk is clearly highly intelligent with a brigade of 140+ IQs to look into the govt spending. Works for me. I wanna see what they come up with.
The govt bureaucracy is undoubtedly scared sh+tless of what they know is there to find.
For now, for me, it's wait and watch...both Musk and your flaming hair. Step back and let the truth come to you. If it actually is true, that what you say is true... it will bear out. I don't want to be lied to by Musk or anybody else. Having said that, I expect everyone to lie, but I want to see some believable facts.
As I said, the hysterical inaccuracies and rotten condition of the govt are the main reason Trump is president...AND SOON TO BE CORONATED AS KING / EMPEROR FOR LIFE. Octavian Augustus Caesar, Julius Caesar, Donny J Caesar.
j/k
Marty
Ps...I did give you the last word in our original back-and-forth. I regarded this as separate ad newsworthy. I didn't intend to drive up your blood pressure.
Hey Marty, this was your key statement! I agree with you! Well, almost. I want to see the real facts, not just stuff I think I can believe. When Trump says there was a person on a list who was born 360 years ago why can’t he give us the name of that person? Or even better, show us the whole list? What list was he talking about? A list with names of people who were born before the USA even existed and they collected SS since 1940. If these are believable facts for you … Amen. Sorry, not for me. I want to see the real facts.
Our President just said that he can’t believe he ever called Zelensky a dictator. Does he have a mental problem? Trump probably also forgot that he wanted to do something against inflation. The guy is old. The oldest President we ever had. Old people tend to forget things. Old people often suffer from dementia. I sure hope he's ok. But he isn't acting like he is. Biden had the same problem. You know, these guys don't have super-natural powers.
I never said Musk wasn't intelligent. He's the richest guy on the planet. I just can't believe these multi-billionaires are working their asses off to support the working-class people in America. I don't think Musk paid Trump millions of dollars to get that DOGE job just to save tax payer’s money. Like you said, we'll see (hopefully the real facts).
In the news I just heard that we’re probably all getting a 5,000$ stimulus check. Oooh, do we all need to be stimulated? Again? What's the reason this time? Is another pandemic on the way? Will checks lower our inflation rate? He says the money will be coming from DOGE. At the same time, they’ll be raising the debt ceiling again. And they plan on lowering the taxes for the rich. All of this doesn’t make sense to me. I’d love to see the facts, some numbers. What did DOGE achieve so far and what did it cost us? Three days ago DOGE deleted all 5 of their biggest savings from their web site list. Uups! What happened? If DOGE is so successful, why do we need to raise the debt ceiling? They should show us the real facts and not tell us lies. You might be satisfied with believable facts or alternative facts. I’m not. By the way, there’s nothing wrong with my hair, Marty. Take care - Robert
Hey Elvis, I’m normally not into politics. When Trump won the election, I thought … ok, we made it through his first 4 years, we’ll make through his next 4. I really didn’t care. But this time it’s different. Very different. I love our country and what is happening right now is not good for our country. I feel sad that most Americans aren’t seeing the warning signs. That is why I’m writing political songs to calm my nerves. But, you’re right … I should not discuss politics here, especially not with Marty. I’ll stop. Thanks for the advice and waking me up.
Hey Elvis, I’m normally not into politics. When Trump won the election, I thought … ok, we made it through his first 4 years, we’ll make through his next 4. I really didn’t care. But this time it’s different. Very different. I love our country and what is happening right now is not good for our country. I feel sad that most Americans aren’t seeing the warning signs. That is why I’m writing political songs to calm my nerves. But, you’re right … I should not discuss politics here, especially not with Marty. I’ll stop. Thanks for the advice and waking me up.
All the best - Robert
Rob, I have a very different viewpoint. Our country has passed the expansion stage and is in the decay stage, comparable to the UK a couple of centuries back. We off-shored a great deal of our manufacturing capacity to China and other low wage countries. China has a massive wartime machine now. I'm not sure what our war capacity is. For years the most prominent force on our border has been drug cartels, which are now a parallel patchwork of warring feudal govts controlling 30 - 40 percent of Mexico. Sheinbaum is president of PART of Mexico. Our treasury is being pilfered around the world and we are still trying to pretend that we can finance Pax Americana, as if it was 1960. We have massive unfunded liabilities that likely wont get funded.
As imperfect as Trump and his shenanigans can be, e.g., "dictator", he is the best leader that we could have at the moment. Chopping the govt down and weaning our allies and enemies off the treasury tit will be risky and clumsy, but not doing it is headed for an inevitable collapse.
At this very moment, because of Trump's immigration and border measures, there are many citizens who will not become victims of crime in this country. That alone, validates his election.
Ben There's rules around here. But, like the govt, they dont get enforced. Politics and religious discussions doom websites to arguments. I've made that point repeatedly and been told to phuque off if I don't like being called an "A$$hole." After I was clipped for $300.
I've stop being concerned with it, one way or the other. I put up a good song in this section, but it is 1 out of 20 places that I have already uploaded it to and 1 out of 50to100 that I will ultimately upload it to.
Rob and I have, at least, confined the discussion to his song and thread which is clearly a political statement. Given that it was a political statement, we have kept the debate on point and sequestered to this thread. Additionally, Rob and I had a discussion without "A$$hole, fuk yourself", etc, being peppered in when reason failed and collapsed into frustrated emotion.
But then again Ben...here you are, partaking from your pedestal and casting displeased glances. You should thank me and Rob for providing you that opportunity to be so holy.
But then again Ben...here you are, partaking from your pedestal and casting displeased glances. You should thank me and Rob for providing you that opportunity to be so holy.
Elvis, you did nothing wrong. Thank you once again for your advice.
Marty, I just watched the Zelensky/Trump meeting in the Oval Office live. This should have been done behind closed doors. What a disaster. Trump even talked about Hunter Biden. What the f***? They kicked Zelensky out of the White House. America wants a mineral deal. We call it a deal, right. It's blackmail. A small country is invaded by Russia and they are in deep trouble defending themselves. Trump is asking for 500 billion dollars even though America gave them only 120 billion in weapons. Ukraine is willing to agree if Trump gives Ukraine guarantees. Trump doesn't want to do that. Trump only wants the minerals, so Zelensky won't do the deal. Now Trump says he will have Musk shut down Starlink if they don't do the deal. Wow, so now we have Russia and America joining forces against Ukraine. This is really sad. 80% of Americans don't trust Putin. Trump doesn't care what Americans think. Now, many more Ukrainians will lose their lives and Putin will get the minerals. That really was a great deal - for Putin. That is why I wrote this song. European countries are scared as hell, because of Putin and the new American politics. I would like to say again that I wrote this song from a European perspective. I know that some Americans, including you Marty, think differently. I'm ok with that.
Rob, I watched the whole thing on MSNBC. WW1 was a horrid and gruesome affair, complete with trenches and gas, that dragged in all of Europe, the Ottomans and ultimately the US...and was triggered by an assassination in a small nation in Eastern Europe. (Balkans)
Speaking of small nations in eastern Europe, Russia and Ukraine share a border and a hatred for each other. Russia has a large, war hardened army entrenched in Ukraine's east. Putin is not going to give up what they hold. Without US firepower, Ukraine has no hope of a win.
Zelensky needs to realize that many people, such as me, do not want the US ramping up and up a war with Russia in Eastern Europe. We will gamble on what Russia does next, but do not want to gamble on whether or not the Russians will use nukes if cornered. Doing that for a small nation, so corrupt, that the EU wont let them join, does not justify the purpose and risk. (They are a "candidate" for membership. That doesn't mean much in the current scenario)
It is a trap for fools. The US has been involved in too many of those, because that is what Super-powers always do towards their end. It is an unpleasant situation with unpleasant realities...that Zelensky and Ukraine are going to have to face...because Russia is right there.
What happened on TV was unpleasant and undignified. But what I like about it...is that you and I saw it for ourselves. Cable news wont be flooded with agenda-pushing liars from all sides distorting what no one saw over the next few days.
I appreciate your opinion also,
Martin
PS. Putin was a KGB officer. You can't get into the NBA if you can't dribble with both hands and you can't be a KGB officer unless your blood runs colder than a lizard's. No one trusts him. The people closest to him likely sleep with one eye open. His personality is a factor, but there are other factors to be weighed by Trump.
Marty, when the war broke out 3 years ago, Western countries froze all the Russian assets. Huge assets. The costs for the war were covered by the interest of these Russian assets. When the war is over this Russian money is supposed to be used to rebuild Ukraine. So tell me again why Trump wants Ukraine to pay 500 billion dollars to the US? If they don't reach an agreement, Russia will get Ukraine and the minerals. You make it sound like it was Zelensky's fault that the deal wasn't acceptable. It was a bad deal for Ukraine. If you spend 500 billion you want some kind of guarantee. Zelensky wasn't asking for the US to send troops over. What now? Why not tweak the deal to make it acceptable for everybody. Kicking Zelensky out of the White House is not the solution.
Rob, I doubt that the deal can be tweaked. I don't know what the Russian assets total, however on MSNBC (not Trump fans), some opinion-ater just said that the US outlay to date is 189 billion. Trump says 350 billion. Vance says 200 billion. My instincts tell me that the frozen Russian assets are nowhere near any of those numbers. Hopefully but doubtfully, you and I will receive a truthful accounting of those frozen assets. I suspect, without any personal knowledge,that they were also bartered in the prisoner exchanges.
Additionally, per a talking head on MSNBC, China controls most of the rare earth minerals and has the US somewhat over a barrel in that important regard, so there is that.
Zelensky has several problems. He is a small nation bordering a dangerous hostile neighbor. He trusted Obama and Biden to step in and body slam the Russians if the sh+t ever hit the fan. Biden made him think that he would but he didn't. Biden sent just enough weaponry to Ukraine to frustrate the Russians, yet let them grind down the corrupt and problematic Ukrainians until they are all spent on battlefields. My personal opinion is that both of those were his admins goals.
Had Harris gotten in, it would have continued to whatever uncertain ending. Trump got in and said, this ends and everyone accepts the realities here or I walk away and let the chips fall.
I am not sending Americans to die dislodging the Russians from Ukraine. (and they wont dislodge if I don't) I am not going to gamble on starting WW3 or launching nukes. I'm not going to borrow money and send it to Eastern Europe to keep this going on behalf of a small corrupt country at a risk to the rest of the world.
Ukraine's problem is that the worst reality is clearly theirs. But the bright side for them; the dying stops, the destruction of property stops and they have cash flow from the American mining, with hopefully some assurance that the Russians wont invade the mining operation.
Will it last? I've no idea. But I have a nephew who made a career out of the Navy. He face-times my wife every couple of weeks. If he told us that he was being shipped to the BLACK SEA, I would hate it. There are other people who feel that way in the US and if soldiers started shipping out and dying...it would become unpopular quickly.
Marty, I think your instincts are wrong. From what I heard the frozen Russian assets are way higher than what the US invested. It should be pretty easy to find out how much America invested. Those packages were supported by Republicans. I hope you are aware of the fact that Europe invested even more than the US in Ukraine’s fight against Russia. Trump hates to mention that. I’ve been watching German television tonight. It looks like Europe is rallying around Zelensky tonight. It looks like Europe could take over where America left off and support Ukraine’s fight against the aggressor Putin. We’ll have to wait and see but if that happens then the US is out. Marty, this is exactly what you wanted. America will not have to send troops to Europe. The minerals deal is off the table. We’ll have to wait and see how much of the frozen assets America gets in the end. Trump wasn’t able to end the war in Ukraine on day one. America can now focus on making America great again.
Honestly, Trump’s deal wasn’t acceptable. Ukraine was supposed to pay 500 billion dollars and get no guarantees in return. Putin would have taken over all of Ukraine and Ukraine would have had to pay America. If Zelensky doesn’t accept the deal, the war will continue and Europe will increase their support. America is out. Marty, this is just what you wanted.
I think your instincts are wrong. I’ve been watching German television tonight. It looks like Europe is rallying around Zelensky tonight. It looks like Europe could take over where America left off and support Ukraine’s fight against the aggressor Putin. We’ll have to wait and see but if that happens then the US is out. Marty, this is exactly what you wanted. America will not have to send troops to Europe.
If Zelensky doesn’t accept the deal, the war will continue and Europe will increase their support. America is out. Marty, this is just what you wanted.
I, personally, do not want US troops and/or money in Eastern Europe escalating a war with the Russians...over Ukraine. I saw several condemnations of Trump by various European leaders in the news. If they don't like Trump's approach, let's see what theirs is. It needs to be something other than simply telling the American to go fight the Russians.
Sometimes real bad situations do not have golden and clean solutions. This is one of those times.
As far as how much money is where? I'm privy to nothing. I can't say.
I, personally, do not want US troops and/or money in Eastern Europe escalating a war with the Russians...over Ukraine. If they don't like Trump's approach, let's see what theirs is. It needs to be something other than simply telling the American to go fight the Russians. Marty
Marty, I can't recall that the Europeans ever asked for American troops in Ukraine. And as far as I know America never sent any money over there. We sent weapons that were made here in America. That war created/secured a lot of jobs in the U.S. and most of it was financed with the seized Russian assets. That was a pretty good deal for the U.S. I'm pretty sure Trump is stopping that now. Putin wants all of Ukraine. That's what Trump offered (a deal with the devil - Putin - and no security guarantees). On top of that Trump wanted money (minerals). I'm sure you know there was a ceasefire agreement between Russia and Ukraine in 2019 which Russia broke. That's why the security guarantees are so important for Ukraine. I assume Europe won't ask for money like Trump did and they will will continue supporting Ukraine in the hope that Russia suffers so badly that they won't be able to launch another attack on a neighboring country within the next decade or two.
One thing is pretty clear after this event: America is not the leader of the free world anymore.
I don't know what Putin wants, nor do I know what he is capable of taking. But I am glad to see the Europeans stepping up to take charge of the front lines. Waiting to see what they come up with, as are many other people.
You seem distraught. I can't help you with this Ukraine situation, but I can offer the following as something that will almost certainly offer a distraction and release some endomorphins.
I don't know what Putin wants, nor do I know what he is capable of taking. But I am glad to see the Europeans stepping up to take charge of the front lines.
You seem distraught.
Hey Marty, Putin said exactly what he wants. But I’m not sure he still has the capabilities to get what he wants after these 3 years of fighting in Ukraine, especially if the fighting continues and it looks like the Ukrainians will continue to fight until the bitter end. They love their country. I think Americans would do the same if Putin invaded Alaska. When I see what Trump posted in the last 24 hours I don’t think NATO has a future.
I’m not distraught. I’m just sad. The guy who said he would make America great again weakens our country’s standing in the world. Like you said, now other countries have to take charge. It will be interesting to see which country takes the lead. Great Britain is off to a good start. I personally think Canada would a great successor. Turkey would love to send troops to Ukraine. So far, America stopped the Turks but that might change now. Orban, a good friend of Trump, on the other hand wants Ukraine to become part of Russia. These next few years will be very interesting.
Trump said that if he gets elected, we will never have to vote again. That will be a great relief. Just think, no more rigged elections. So, he’ll be around for a while and he’s got a big family. Like Castro in Cuba, some Trump family member will lead our country for the next decades if we like it or not. I sure hope the courts will allow us to vote again in the future but he owns the Supreme Court. Luckily, I can leave the country when I feel enough is enough. Many fellow Americans will have to accept the new “golden age”. I don’t need Candy Dulfer to distract me. I’ve got my family and my own music. I’m enjoying life to the max. Every now and then I try to wake my fellow Americans up with songs and posts like this but many of them are sound asleep or brainwashed. That’s not my problem, Marty. If you feel good, I’m absolutely fine with that. Good night.
Leave the door open for the remote possibility that it is not me that is brain washed. If I am, this morning I am, at least, enjoying the fact that there are many people who will not be raped and robbed or otherwise victimized by people who were prevented from illegally entering this country, and by others who have been arrested and deported from this country in the last couple of weeks.
Rob Framing these kind of arguments is why the dimocrats lost every swing state. The important contrast is not the comparison of Trump's border policies to some greater expectation that he failed to meet. The important contrast is the United States border under Trump versus the United States border under Biden or Harris. Night and day. The actual border has been so altered in such a short period of time that it is not each day's lead news story and is considered to be under control.
The "subject" is priorities. The US border or foreign borders. I live in Houston. One of my properties was actually abused by an MS13 enclave. My personal safety and the people in my city, state and country is my priority.
The issues in Ukraine are not over and settled. Macron et al wont get anything done. Zelensky will have to come back to Trump. Trump and Vance are in the process of realigning his expectations with a reality that will provide some kind of prospect for a negotiated cease fire. Defeating and expelling Russia is not a realistic expectation. Another endless war is not a desirable involvement.
The issues in Ukraine are not over and settled. Macron et al wont get anything done. Zelensky will have to come back to Trump. Trump and Vance are in the process of realigning his expectations with a reality that will provide some kind of prospect for a negotiated cease fire. Defeating and expelling Russia is not a realistic expectation. Another endless war is not a desirable involvement.
Marty, I think you missed a few things. Zelensky will never talk with Trump again. Why should he? Trump has nothing to offer. Zelensky doesn't want to talk about Hunter Biden again. He never did. Trump wants a cease fire without any border securities. So he basically wants to hand over Ukraine to Putin and take their minerals. Like I previously said. America is out. They are not the leader of the free world anymore. Trump is signing one executive order after another. That has nothing to do with democracy. He's a dictator. On Friday the whole world saw what that looks like. The free world countries and Ukrainians are celebrating Zelensky because of the way he dealt with Trump and Vance. You say Europe won't get anything done. Well, the UK is now giving Zelensky more money for much needed weapons. Nobody wants this war to go on forever but Trump's deal was only acceptable for Putin. Now at least everybody knows that the only way we can reach an acceptable deal in Ukraine is by leaving America out of the whole thing. So far, I'd say Trump made things worse. Americans may think Trump is making America great again but after what happened I would think it's the opposite. I can't change what is happening, so I must accept it. I'm enjoying my life as long as I can.
Trump just stopped military support of Ukraine, he's stopped cyber-operations against Russia, he wants to open Nord Stream 2 again and let Russian gas flow to Europe, he wants Russia to participate in the next G7 meeting, ... What is going on? Putin is suddenly his best buddy. Do you know more than I do?
Rob One thing that I have learned not to do is trust CNN fact checkers when it comes to Trump. 80% of my tv news watching is CNN and MSNBC. Their "facts" are badly biased. Is this fact true? Maybe? Biden and Harris told me that the border was secure and that Biden was lucid and cogent. Given my priorities, those lies were a much greater concern, than dead people on SOSec rolls. And...CNN did not "fact check" them until the election was lost.
As for Ukraine. I read last night that Trump "paused" the aid. I can't tell you exactly and factually why he did it. Trump doesnt call me and kick ideas around, but here is MY GUESS.
Trump doesnt like participating in or financing foreign wars.
At all times, there is someone(s) telling the US that it is our duty under God to go fight one somewhere ...against evil and for democracy. That has been the case since I was born. An objective mind would put Vietnam and Afghanistan in the loss column. Many people see the invasion of Iraq as an egregiously unjustified destruction of life and property, based on intentional lies about their AMDs. (Personally, I don't see it that way)
Texas and California have greater GDPs than Russia. (Per Gemini) But Russia has around 7k nukes with submarines and inter-ballistic missiles to deliver them.
Trump thinks that he can get along with Russia and he thinks that the world overall would be a better and safer place if Russia was gotten along with. And Russia may turn to the West instead of East if China decides to use the war machine that they have built up...from the profit of manufacturing goods for Europe and the US.
You think that Russia is an incarnation of 3rd Reich category evil and will blitzkrieg through Europe if their war machine is not utterly destroyed. Trump sees Ukraine (and Zelensky) as a hopelessly corrupt, mostly inconsequential nation that stands in the way of the better and safer world that he envisions.
Who is Right? You and people sympathetic to your view, or Trump? I don't know. I am completely GUESSING and surmising here.
My prediction...Zelensky knows that the US is his only bluff with the Russians. UK and France are just going to assist in dragging out an ugly loss. I suspect that Trump and Zelensky will be all-in-love again fairly soon.
But ROB, I DON"T KNOW. Trump is on TV tonight holding a rally from the Capitol building. I suggest you tune in and gather whatever information is there.
Trump is a DISRUPTER. In the last month he has disrupted;
the border policies and enforcement. the govt policies regarding DEI and CRT. the govt policies regarding sexual disphoria, confusion, transitioning, etc He is gutting the fed govt of what he considers to be unproductive "bloat."
Now, I read that he has Tariffed Canada seeking tit for tat tariffs....and they are retaliating. Now, I read that he has Tariffed the PARTIAL govt of Mexico that is recognized at the UN and is said to control 60-70 percent of "Mexico" ...seeking tit for tat tariffs... and they are retaliating. He has designated some of the patchwork, feudalistic, cartel govts of 30-40 percent of "Mexico" as "terrorists." The PARTIAL govt of "Mexico" that is recognized at the UN and is said to control 60-70 percent of "Mexico" is suing American gun mfgs in SCOTUS TODAY for the proliferation of guns to the cartel warlords in their tragically broken country. They are demanding 60 billion dollars from SMITH &WESSON et al (per what I read)
And then, there is aid to Ukraine and the Russians.
The disrupter has flooded-the-zone with disruptions. What matters to a given individual depends on that individual's priorities.
We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.
"I have dreamed a lot of things that have come true for other people, because I didn't take the action to make them come true for me." –Brian Austin Whitney
