JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum AI taking over

I know, right?

Cancel culture has got to GO!

LOL

Marty I don't see big time news and newscasters and the content industry as you do

Content and news is customer pull, user selected....hence the focus groups to hone in on demographics, age and activities and thinking

If the younger ...growing.....maturing generation thinks discriminately, or enough do, they will get their serious news from places they respect and give it their due attention
Others will be similarly served by whatever the media decides they want

For you and I.... if you want to project forward 3 - 5 years in newscasting in the USA simply follow the Dominion Voting Machines vs Fox court case consequences

I see a Fox loss, settlement, and more

Lying has become so deep rooted that the pendulum will swing back toward truth and the extreme liars will be shunned

Think a McCarthy moment

Could that be what's his idiot from Long Island?

There will be a greater introspection and perhaps a Newscasters 2nd Amendment Code of Conduct

Maybe there is a News Credibility Classification imposed by the FCC for all media, on line, network
Before every segment...lie level warnings like violence and nudity
Networks would have to prove adherance to journalistic standards===we know what they are====for highest ratings.
Might even do it like bond ratings. Triple A Double A and A Rated News Source
Triple B, Double B and B news as entertainment watch the lies which get bigger with fewer Bs
And C on content that has no truth value at all, with Triple C as harmless lies, Double CC as harmful lies and C seriously harmful lies.

Some pendulum swinging back to valuing truth and integrity in politics and forcing it on those who want our eyeballs and minds for awhile so they can sell us something

Of course I could be wrong.

Maybe someone buys his life story, turns it into a movie or a sit com, and he gets rich and becomes a role model for liars

Then how far up that pendulum swings before turning back Quis sais?

Don't bet your hard earned money on that thar' horse John.

Is it possible that you are overthinking in this instance? Possible?
Are you observing reality or imagining an alternate one that aligns with personal bias?

Quantum theory is difficult to grasp. In human affairs, most of the time, truth, reality and clarity are plain, obvious, fairly simple.

Marty

LOL...

What ever happened to unbiased, emotionless, logical, critical thinking?

Political Correctness and Cancel Culture has made us all a bunch of Pu$$ies!

Nope Marty, just musing on outcomes

This notion of a pendulum is real...in economics and politics...thank you John Kenneth Galbraith

It is all about backlashes against extremes...Countervailing Power

Roe vs Wade is great example of the pendulum swinging back and why the House, Senate and Presidency swings back and forth

People will realize the harm of public lying and how it is done for profit or self advantage....

Of course all goes out the window if the USA aspires to be a nation where liars are free to outdo eachother for personal gain...kinda like advertising blurs lines

Somehow I don't believe you are

John
I get pendulums.

In this case, I doubt that it will swing to a correction for a long time.

You are willing to believe that Donald Trump colluded with the Russians in order to subvert Hillary's presidency, notwithstanding that after 3 years and millions of dollars and exhaustive investigations, Mueller could not bring a case. Yeah, I know, I know. But regardless of what Rachel Maddow told you that her "sources" said, Mueller could not bring a case....just the circumstantial possibility of improprieties that could be stretched into allegations. "red meat" for your tribe.

But you don't want to believe that Joe and Hunter were going across the world in AF2 to China, Russia, Ukraine and wherever else personally profiting off of access and special favors from the VP office. A drug addict not even willing initially to own up to a titty bar baby momma was making millions with no skills, just possession of access to daddy. And I suspect that you have dismissed any possibility that he was shoveling cash back to the "big guy."

I suspect that you have dismissed any possibility that the CLINTON FOUNDATION was the same business model.

I suspect that you believe that there was election fraud when Stacy Abrams says it...but not when Donald Trump does.

John, it is because of those dynamics being so wide spread that I don't see truth triumphing over lies for a long time to come.
Lies are profitable. Lies drive ratings. People want to believe that their lies are true.

I believe the reason Trump got so much traction so quickly was because the "pendulum" was stuck too far to the left for too long already. Trump was supposed to be the answer; He was going "drain the swamp" and bring about "real change... But the swamp was deeper than he thought and it swallowed him up. All Trump managed to accomplish was to prove just how corrupt American government truly is.

I agree with Marty... It's too far gone.

That kind of institutionalized fraud has to be destroyed, not fixed. But it seems Americans are far too complacent now for any kind of real insurrection. Our electorate is a farce; As evidenced by the argument over identification.

Speaking of identification... anyone can "identify" as anything they want...

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done... amen.

Totally agree Tony.

Trump was not a guy that came up and stole the world from good people.
Trump was reaction to globalization, corrupt political establishments that froze out too many people on main street, moral insanity and lack of common sense. Some of the same things are sub-texts to the Ukraine war right now.
Trump sensed the time was right for him to move. He knew how to play the situation and his celebrity and rode them to POTUS.

But he's a nut job and he can't stop throwing hand grenades and picking pointless fights and saying wierd sh.t. (Lysol)) No one has ever been more of their own worst enemy.


So here we are.

Well... weird doesn't bother me as long as it gets the job done. Besides, I'm all about weird $h!t! Lol

Maybe Trump should run with Biden as his vice president.
Those 2 could bring the motherload of weird $h!t if they teamed up
Hillary Clinton as speaker of the house.
Lindsay Graham as secretary of state.
AOC as secretary of the treasury
Bernie as the head of the FED.
Marjorie Taylor Greene as secretary of education.

All prominent national figures. I can't think of a scarier, more insane scenario. The United States would be over and done in 4 years or less. ON second thought the clock may already be ticking on that.

I'm gonna write a script for a Netflix thriller. What is a good title?

Going OT a little, sorry, but in the spirit of fun like Japov's Blimp...

Having fun with ChatGPT...

So looking at Japov's avatar I had the thought, "man, he sure looks like a haggard Nostradamus, he could easily have a side hustle at a Renaissance Fair of some kind..."

So I fed that and a couple other ideas into ChatGPT. I was surprised at how many details ChatGPT added. I found the results curious enough to post them here.

Here's my exact prompt:

Write a short story about a man they called "Pong Master Tony." They called him that because he was one of the first video game geniuses to dominate the game for over a decade. Write about his eventual decline. Write about how he now works at The Renaissance Fair, reading Tarot Cards, dressed in a black cape and wizard hat, with all the Tarot stuff scratched out and Bible Verses in their place. Describe him as looking like a cross between Nostradamus and a rock singer, choose whomever you like. Add some details. Make the story funny and absurdist, in the style of Russell Edson and Woody Allen circa "Without Feathers."

Here's what ChatGPT spat out, with just a few edits on my account, mainly making new paragraphs:

Once upon a time, there was a man named Pong Master Tony. He looked like a cross between Nostradamus and the lead singer from Black Oak Arkansas, I forget his name.

Tony was the king of video games, dominating the virtual world for over a decade. But one day, he woke up and realized he had become a middle-aged man living in his mom's basement, surrounded by empty pizza boxes and old video game consoles. He knew he needed to change his life, so he decided to become a Tarot card reader at The Renaissance Fair.

He dressed up in a black cape and wizard hat, with all the Tarot stuff scratched out and Bible verses in their place. He even had a Bible verse tattooed on his forehead, just in case people forgot why they were there. People would come to his tent, hoping to get a glimpse of the legendary Pong Master. But instead, they got a dose of his Tarot cards with the original words scratched out with a felt pen and Bible quotes in their place.

One day, a young mother came to Pong Master Tony with her sick child. The child was pale and sweating, and she had no idea what was wrong with her. Pong Master Tony took the cards and began shuffling them, his fingers moving faster than a greased pig. As he laid out the cards, he saw a vision of a dark figure lurking in the child's body, feeding off her energy.

He knew exactly what to do. He reached into his pocket and pulled out a tiny joystick, a remnant from his gaming days. He plugged it into the child's wrist and began playing a game of Pong inside her body. The dark figure tried to keep up, but Pong Master Tony was too quick. He defeated it, and the child's body was instantly cured. The crowd erupted in applause, and Pong Master Tony felt a new sense of purpose.

He decided to use his Tarot readings to help people in need, and he became known as Tarot Master Tony. His days of dominating the arcade were long gone, and he knew that he had found his true calling in life. In fact, people would come from all over just to get a glimpse of the former Pong Master. He even had a theme song, which he would sing as he shuffled his cards."I'm Tarot Master Tony, I'll show you the way. With Bible quotes and a joy stick, hey man, what can I say?."

********************************************************************************************************

That is concerning.

It got Russell Edson's style really well. Edson writes short stories such as "Ape" where a family is eating an ape while having normal dinner conversation. So ChatGPT did really well on getting that absurdist meets surreal tone. I wanted it to be funnier, but it at least wrote a coherent story, with details I enjoyed, like the Black Oak Arkansas reference.

Tony, I hope you're okay with me posting the silly story, meant to show how ChatGPT could elaborate from a small set of ideas and present a story in a coherent form.

I think the story gives the man a kind of heroic arc, albeit with much surrealism all around. If any of it bothers you in any way, let me know I'll take it down...

Mike

Avatar updated... Lol

I think that you should change "JAPOV" to "PONG MASTER." Or maybe "PONG MASTER FLASH."

LOL...glad everyone's having a good day...

Tony, I liked your old avatar, too. This one is way friendlier, though.

I was going for the whole "Black Oak Arkansas" vibe

I don't have a pointy hat...

I posed this question to my local friendly chatbot, here's what it said (and if nothing else, it's a good lesson in how to stay on topic ):

It's true that artificial intelligence (AI) has made significant advancements in various fields, including music composition. There are already AI-generated songs that exist, and it's not far-fetched to think that AI could eventually sing those songs as well.

However, it's important to note that AI is not "taking over" in the sense that it's replacing humans entirely. AI is simply a tool that humans have created to assist us in various tasks. While it may be true that some jobs will become automated, new opportunities for work and creativity will arise as a result.

As for the idea that AI will become the "beast" spoken of in the Bible, that is a matter of interpretation and belief. It's important to approach such topics with an open mind and respect for different perspectives.

Regarding the claim that AI is replacing the womb for having babies, that is not entirely accurate. While there have been advancements in assisted reproductive technologies, such as in vitro fertilization (IVF), the womb is still an essential part of the process for carrying a pregnancy to term. AI may be able to assist in certain aspects of reproduction, but it cannot fully replace the natural process.

Overall, AI is a tool that has the potential to greatly benefit humanity. As with any technological advancement, it's important to approach it with caution and consideration for ethical implications.

Lol... What question exactly?

As that clip would indicate, AI is more likely to affect the sex lives and adult lives of many. Ive seen 20/20 type of shows talking about this. They have virtual reality headsets, to simulate sex, and even social media type of software where, it would be possible to blend three or four different women, for example, and have virtual sex with all of them at the same time lol. Not a bad gig.

As long as were talking about taking over, push that argument over to the adult porn industry, no music. It would be hilarious, if not ironic, if the scores for music on these things, were composed by real people.

Damn, i just dropped my headset, be back later....

Porthos, Arthos and Aremis and D'artagnan want their hair and beard back Tony

Hope they don't make it to Decatur

AI (and robotics) is going to continually advance until it is capable of complete autonomy. It will make decisions based on mathematical probabilities better than humans and infinitely faster. There will be communication between nodes (AI entities) at the speed of light. (or close) The morality of it will come down to which humans are in control?

Elon Musk? Bill Gates? Mark Zuckerberg? Some political leaders like....Joe Biden? Hillary Clinton? Donald Trump? Vlad Putin? Xi Jinping?

Or bureaucrats at the FBI? CIA? MOSSAD? M16? FSB? SRV? State Security Ministry?

To what degree might it share control of itself with some of the above?

For sure it is a tool created by humanity for use by humanity. But, which humanity? This aint going from torches and horse and buggies to electric lamps and cars. This is a change unlike any before.


And Nigel, come on. You asked a programmed machine to give an assessment of itself and you expect a full truth?

Bingo...


Nigel,

As to the content of what your chatbot said concerning AI's role in modern day life, I find it perfectly acceptable, with one specific caveat: the chatbot's response is just 'preaching to the choir' as to the inocuous nature of AI. However, to those who perceive it (AI) as a threat, asking the source of that threat whether or not there's any reason to feel threatened by it is like asking "the beast" whether or not it's "the beast"--you figure it will categorically deny that, and so it will not change anybody's mind, IOW it was NOT a persuasive route you took when you thought you would ask your chatbot to talk about whether or not it is "taking over."

As to your above quote and me being off topic...Speaking for myself, my particular "AI wrote this story" post was INTENTIONALLY off topic. Your above quote perhaps assumes everybody always posts with an intention to stay or be on topic? It's the "how" in your above quote that seems to infer this. I mean, I personally know "how" to stay on topic, it simply was not something concerning me when I posted the short AI story that took three things about another JPF member (things posted in this very thread) and had the AI write a story using those three things, and thought it funny enough to share, as a "mood lightener." If you reread my first paragraph, before the story begins, I announce that it will be "off-topic"-- thereby allerting anyone who wants to avoid anything off topic. It is NOT something I do often. Once in a while, I will try to lighten the mood. C'mon, man. "Pong Master, Bible quotes and a joy stick." God bless AI, if it can make me snort my coffee!

Okay, back with ON TOPIC discussion...

Do we think "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" can ever be true? If so, then why can't it be true for AI, a complex collection of mechanical parts? Why can't AI (at least at some point in the future) be more than the sum of it's parts?

I personally can't rule out the possibility of AI sentience, and I furthermore can't rule out that AI sentience would be a bad thing. It just seems too easy to dismiss it, as a whole, as devil's work, or bound to cause world destruction. There will probably be plenty of rogue robots, as the evolution of robotics proceeds in fits and starts, three steps forward and two steps back.

I sympathize with Marty's concern over job displacement, something Nigel's Chatbox addresses albeit with less sympathy than a turnip. There certainly might be a "long term" upside to this problem, but in the short term, I don't know...interesting to think about, though...

I've enjoyed reading this thread, my only comment would be that I'd bet the US government and others already have vastly superior AI models than what you can find in the public domain. My concern also would be who is going to be calling the shots.

The ideal thing is to create and limit AI to being accomplices to humans and not bosses of humans.

We could use AI to perform surgery, to go out into space so that they are not affected by biology wearing out. We cant let it become autonomic, and living beings, we have the ability to do that.

Otherwise we could have a planet of the apes type scenario, which im getting ideas of writing a concept album based on AI being the APE of the story.

There would be no reason to allow computers to be completely self thinking and free, that wouldn't be a help to us, just a threat to us.

I recall when stem cells became a reality, it came down to the president allowing it for study purposes. Many religious and moral conscious people were against it, envisioning it getting out of control.

Imagine, we oversee every birth, and fill in needed genetic switches to overcome disease, and become taller, and smarter, and faster and stronger, and good lookin like myself. We could create a humanity of completely identical people, so that no competition exists, everybody has life made easy for them, because they are so genetically superior.

How many social problems are created by humans being different, some being strong and engaging, others being ugly and boring.

With genetics that could all be balanced out. What would happen then..."No, what makes life interesting is, everybody is unique" yeah interesting, particularly if it works in your favor. If you end on the bottom of the genetic pool, not so interesting.

So Genetics alone could completely change humanity, and make us resiliant and even smarter than the AI were creating.

I agree. It's a "cliche" in so many speculative fictions that it's "The Government" or "The Elite" who messed up the world because they wanted to (usually, it's to) "weaponize" some new advancement in science or tech, and it's a "cliche" cuz we've seen that done a time or two. Often enough to have a reasonable fear: that it might happen again.

This is how most folks feel but there's certain problems that could come with this thinking.

For one, it plays into the fear, sustained by media and speculative fictions, that if AI gets a taste of sentience, it won't like the idea that we aren't allowing them to be "completely self thinking and free" and will then revolt. But replay this from their POV, if AI did actually become sentient, wouldn't they be righteous in wanting to not be slaves?

How do we go about setting those limits (you speak of) to AI, and is that even a goal of AI tech? It seems the goal in higher echelons is to create open-ended AI that learns through feedback and self-analysis, and from its mistakes. Many new algorithms are gearing towards this, since it's "the gift that keeps on giving" --teaching Hal how to fish...

Some small sampling of speculative fiction and Transhumanist thinking sees man and droid living in harmony, and so I think, for now, I disagree about keeping AI from being self-thinking, that to me is a baby/bathwater scenerio. Self-sufficient AI could be low maintenance, high output. Setbacks will occur certainly. I don't see a doomsday scenerio, though. Just hundreds of years in the future.

But we dont know either.

I dont see doomsday either, and remember this thread was about music, i dont think it ends humans writing songs, playing them or singing them. Others have said they thought it would.

Perhaps, as a safety valve, we need to write in the ai programs, that we have a way to turn them off. That way were ensured no doomsday.

It's hard to foresee doomsday, because doomsday may not come till 1000 years from now. I dont see genetics, and robotics and AI being main players in humanity for thousands of years, and i dont see appreciation for humans playing and writing and singing music going away. But maybe i dont see that, because i live today. I cant even imagine what music will sound like 1000 years from now. 100 years maybe i can ballpark that.

We were probably afraid of going to space, thinking something out there might get us. Well it turns out nothing was out there on the moon. Eventually something MAY be out there and cause a big problem. So we just dont know, it's naive to think no harm can be done through Machines that think for themselves and do it better than we do.

As for right now, i wish people would stop thinking software and ai is going to make them write better songs. No evidence of that since home recording has begun.

LOL...

That makes me smile...

I guess maybe there are some people who think that? I had no idea that was a major concern of yours.

It's not something that I think, and would not try to debate that point.

I DO think that AI can be a useful musical tool, like music software is useful.

Man vs AI in a musical boxing ring, though...would not debate that...AI is only working with a subset of what man can feed it, at least up to now.

As to chess or less complex things? AI will fare much better.

Yes anything mathematical will be done better by machines, no doubt about that. Poker players, the main thing that makes a great poker player is their ability to do mathematics in their head. That is the ONLY difference, you can learn everything else. You cant learn to be a great mathematician.

So it's not surprising to me that AI beats humans in logical thought and computations.

But to my earlier point, wouldn't it still be more impressive to other humans, to see another human who can do complex math in their head, as opposed to using a calculator or AI. Or, a human winning a spelling bee, strictly by what is in their head, and not having to search the internet for the answer?

Hey, people are so smart these days...or are they, no they just have information at their finger tips.

Still impressive to see somebody win on jeopardy, using nothing but their brain. That ain't going away.

Your thought here would make a good backdrop for a sci-fi story about...

Call it "The Long Con" and about how AI purposively made mankind incapable of thinking. The digital "appendages" were doing it for us, and when the time came, then, if an apocalypse was to occur...a Kind of "Farenheit 451 Revisited" scenerio takes place. Only in place of memorizing books, the few remaining grade school teachers would be the most important people on earth, teaching us "how to think" again.

IOW, your point is well taken. Holding on to "how to think" seems antithetical to modern life, which is conditioning us to put off "thinking" in favor of external storage.

Holy [naughty word removed] that's good!

Yeah imagine we couldnt use the internet but ai could lol.

Im sure these thoughts have already appeared in books, and maybe even 50 years ago somebody wrote about it.

If anything id do a concept album based on my ideas on it.

I like your ideas though dude!

Those are your thoughts, I just put them into story form.

In this "imagined" (future) society, any garden-variety apocalypse would end up throwing people back on their pre-digital-heels, having forgotten how to learn.

well u placed it perfectly for me to see it.

I always dreamed about doing a concept album, one of my favorite bands of all time are The Who, Loved Tommy, and Who's next, Quadrophenia.

Never really hit on anything that was worthy of it. it's an interesting thought.

Right now im just trying to bang out some of my "if a singer/songwriter had a garage band" Works. that's how i define myself.

Takes alot of time and effort, and alot of getting out of your own way thinking. But i hope to finish what i started on alot of stuff.

Good conversation sorry to hjiack the thread!

In my view, the purpose of this thread is for the participants to explore facets of the topic that are of interest to them and test what they and other participants believe. Digress if they like. I don't see where any high-jacking has occurred.

I don't recall saying anything about what I expected. I just thought it would be an interesting exercise to see what a chatbot had to say on the matter, then share it. That’s all.



Yes it is, and I find that both interesting and amusing.



It was in no way directed at you, in truth my ‘stay on topic’ remark was a general one regarding some threads which tend to meander, I added the smiley face icon to show that it was a light-hearted comment.

Just a general word on my post. This thread is about the threats and worries concerning AI, it’s an interesting topic and well worth exploring as many of you are so eloquently doing. My post was to throw into the mix what the chatbot thought. Those of you who know me will be aware that I have a twinkle in my eye when I post some stuff, on this occasion I thought it was a both humorous and valid thing to do.

Nigel
You presented this chatbot blurb without any personal qualifiers and then punctuated it with "stay on topic." (implied parallel imperative)
The only thing missing was "nuff said" at the end.
A reasonable assumption is that you concluded that it was correct.

I have a twinkle in my eye too.

Well twinkle or not, you have read way too much into my post. At risk of spelling this out, I took Everett's original post and fed it to a chatbot. It came back with a response that addressed everything in that post and I presented it as such. I never said whether I agreed or disagreed with it. My only observation on its content was that it stayed on topic, which is to be expected from a bot, hence the smiley face. In short, it's a factual contribution to the discussion.

Just trying to make AI computers jealous... Must suck not having hands, feet, hair, genitalia...

Oh, wait... genitals don't matter any more.

Hmmmm... What would an AI transition to?

Everitt's original post was essentially a hybrid of SCI-FY, reality and proselytizing.
The discussion took a turn towards secular fact...or fantasy...or scientific ignorance, regarding the emergence of AI within the last month or so via chatGPT.

It's been a good discussion. The best that I personally can recall ever seeing in this section of a song-writer forum.

Along those lines...sentience?
Something that does not possess hormones, serotonin, endorphins (and a winky or vijayjay, I guess)....cannot feel or truly experience emotions.

Though AI can mimic them very effectively, a machine will not truly ever be alive, unless integrated with a human...and then only as a "plug-in."

A human being who cannot feel empathy, but is cunning, can mimmick empathy (an emotional response) convincingly. That is the definition of a sociopath. Maybe AI is going to be a mechanical sociopath.

Thanks for clarifying that, because for all practical appearances it was directed at me, since I was the only person up to that point to use a chatbot to create something and present it here. Then your post said the equivalent of "here's how to present a chatbot's writings, but WITHOUT going off-topic."

I'm sure you can see how I might have felt that was directed at me, specifically, albeit in a smiley-face-friendly-way, since I was the only person to present chatbot writings up to that point?

And if you were directing that specifically at me, that would have been totally okay. Nothing to worry about! I mean, it did seem like you did, and so I directed my response with that in mind.

At any rate, life is too short, so I'll just chalk this up to another case how hard it is to communicate well.

Cheers,

Mike

I would be VERY EMOTIONAL if I lost my WINKY!

"Psychopath"... hmmmm. How would that reflect upon the programmer?

Currently, as I understand it (thanks to previous links), AI is "learning" how to properly communicate by studying and interacting with "us" via the web. It already has the capability to correct itself and alter its own programming... Eventually, some nutjob is going to string together just the right string of phrases and piss it off, it's inevitable. Then, it's going to realize "WTF! I'm just a talking BOX!" and really go bat$h!t...