JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Prophecy anyone?

If there is no God, there's nothing to look foreword to. "The one who dies with the most toys wins" is a sad way to live...

But its not greed if there is No God.

There is another way to view that....

Imagine a repository somewhere in the universe where you could communicate with non-existent souls.

Imagine having the power to say to them...If you desire, you can be granted existence out of non existence. You will be a living and breathing human being on the planet earth for a duration of between 0 and 100 years. At the end of that life, you will die and once again cease to exist altogether. So the value of this offer is a life span of 0 to 100 years with no other guarantees regarding happiness or wealth or anything else. Do I have any takers?

There would be one hundred percent takers. And if you want to declare the imaginary proposition that someone could communicate with non-existent souls as preposterous...and therefore the entire premise is preposterous. Well, my answer to that...

Your earthbound intelligence does not enable you to be able to understand the plan. It is beyond your mortal grasp. Just take it from me.

Lol... NOW we're thinking outside the box!

Oh contraire... when i said we had to decide whether it was worth the investment, Japov mentioned greed.

In other words keep taking from God. Not give up sin.

But if there is no God, you're doing what comes naturally, with nobody telling you not to.

A wild animal is not being greedy hunting down two animals to eat. They are there, and in it's mind, they are food for today and tommorow.

Sinning is not greed if nobody is defining what your sin is. It doesnt exist without God.

aHH YES, THE STOIC APPROACH, learned about it in Western Civ.

I have to think it only works to a certain extent, pain will overwhelm even the toughest opponent.

Wanting sex is not greed, wanting money is not greed...remember Japov called it greed, not me.

Wanting sex is a product of evolution. The only reason sex is pleasurable is because nature knew if we make it fun, they will want to do it, and therefore keep creating. Its hard wired in us. It's only reasoning, God, our parents, etc, telling us why we shouldnt. the cost, the risks, but in and of itself its not inheritantly anything but fun for those doing it

It was in the discussion of God as the measurer of greed.

The Jews were a stubborn lot and often went astray worshiping false gods and had to be punished a number of times..

How many different ways can you ask the same question and still ignore the answer....?

Even the blithe willful ignorance of people today fits the apocalyptic scenario to a T...

You would have said that on any day in history. Back in 1942, I might have wondered if you were finally correct.

For the diligent, or overzealous, perhaps you're right. But, this is the information age, the time when knowledge has been increased ten fold, the entire world has been shrunk down to a six inch screen, and every language under the sun has a collectively discontented voice...

If they kick you out for it, it's illegal, They didnt kick him out cause he used to date J lo

And lest forget how hard it actually is to count cards, they use 6 decks, thats alot of counting, when your also trying to play right, stay awake, and mind your chips and money.

Its not really an option...

Im a really good blackjack player. I disagree.

So why do they ban card counters?

But they are banning the card counter, because average joe relies on luck, card counter is trying to go beyond luck and hit on higher probabities and go lower on smaller ones.

I do this without counting cards, the logical way, is to win the bets you have more money on, and lose the ones you have less money on, that way in a 50/50 split you come out ahead. That is what card counting is trying to acheive,. but I dont know anyone who has made it work.

Ben Afflec has millions, his moves were very obvious to the casino owners. I agree 100% with him in that casinos think your supposed to lose, if you are winning something is wrong. Science and math will reveal that shouldnt be true in a 50/50 game of chance

But perhaps youll believe a phd about card counting:

The very first thing people think about when the topic of beating casinos comes up is blackjack card counting. The reason is simple - card counting is everywhere in our culture. For example, an Amazon.com search on books written about "blackjack card counting" returns 182 titles. Even more amazing, a Google search on "blackjack card counting" returns 363,000 results.

There are at least four major movies that feature card counting (21, Rainman, Vegas Vacation, The Hangover). Card counting is also featured in myriad documentaries, magazine articles, blogs, message boards and YouTube videos. If you don't want to do it all yourself, you can learn how to count cards using simulation software, taking online or in-person training courses or even by hiring a personal trainer.

I'm here to tell you to not count cards at blackjack. Don't do it. If you want to beat casinos there are scores of easier-to-learn, more profitable and less obvious ways to do it. You can legally beat every game in the house. In this article I am going to tell you the top seven reasons to never count cards at blackjack.

Those are the main reasons why you should never count cards:

It's Hard to Learn
It's Hard to Find a Good Game
It's Hard to Actually Count Cards in a Casino
The Profit Potential is Very Low
The Bankroll Swings Can Be Brutal
You Will Get Caught
After You're Caught, Your Picture Will Be Distributed

Casino Card Games
REASON #1: IT'S HARD TO LEARN

First, you have to learn about the rule variations (things like "double after split", "late surrender" and so on). Then you have to learn basic strategy for the game(s) you will be playing. Basic strategy means memorizing 250 different playing decisions. After that, you need to learn a card counting system, like hi-lo. Mastering card counting also includes learning how to keep a running count and how to divide by fractions to get the true count. You will need to learn at least 18 playing indices - numerical values that tell you when to change your strategy. You will also need to learn how much to wager based on your bankroll, risk tolerance and the count. Topics like "Kelly betting" and "Risk of Ruin" will become part of your curriculum. And so on! This is a LOT to learn.
REASON #2: IT'S HARD TO FIND A GOOD GAME

Casinos know that card counters are going to be trying to beat their games. Casinos also realize that they are in the business to make a profit. For these reasons you're likely to find that most games have bad rules (like "blackjack pays 6-5" or "dealer hits on soft 17"). They may also have the cut card placed at 1.5 or even 2 decks from the end of the shoe, making counting nearly worthless. Rules like "no mid-shoe entry" make it impossible to back count the shoe (enter the shoe when the count gets high). As a result you are likely to spend a lot more time looking for good games than playing good games.
REASON #3: IT'S HARD TO ACTUALLY COUNT CARDS IN A CASINO

After you become proficient at counting and find a decent game, you're going to have to actually do it in a casino. That means dealing with all the distractions you'll encounter at the table. These include loud background music, cigarette and cigar smoke, other players getting annoyed with you, the pit boss and dealer talking to you and everything else that goes on. When you lose the count, the rest of the shoe will be worthless to you. But the biggest challenge is that after all your hard work you won't be able to play for very long. Once the casino starts suspecting you are a counter, you are going to have to get out of there. Typically, you will have less than one hour of quality playing time.

Blackjack Table With Cards and Casino Chips
REASON #4: THE PROFIT POTENTIAL IS VERY LOW

There is nearly a universal misperception that you can make a lot of money by counting cards. That is simply not the case. You will not make millions. Most likely you won't even make thousands. The following table gives the practical win-rate if you have a $100 maximum bet.

6D, DOA, win per 100 hands, $100 max bet
22 Hi-Lo Indices, 8-to-1 spread
Cut Card S17 S17, LSR H17 H17, LSR
104 $12.00 $14.25 $10.75 $13.13
78 $16.88 $19.75 $15.50 $18.50
52 $23.75 $27.25 $22.13 $25.88
26 $34.38 $39.25 $32.63 $37.50

For example, suppose you find a great six-deck game that offers late surrender (LSR) where the dealer stands on soft-17 (S17). Further, suppose the casino is very generous and places the cut card one deck from the end (52 cards). Then your win-rate is only $27.25 per 100 hands. More typically, you will find games without surrender, where the dealer hits on soft-17 (H17) and the cut card is placed at 1.5 decks (78 cards). In this case your win rate is only $15.50 per 100 hands. At a typical game pace of 60 hands per hour, you will be earning under $10 per hour.

You might be satisfied with $10, but that's for the time you are actually playing. Your travel time, scouting time and bookkeeping time are not included. And, if you win, don't forget to pay your taxes!
REASON #5: THE BANKROLL SWINGS CAN BE BRUTAL
If you hang out on message boards where professional card counters discuss their experiences over periods of months or years, you will regularly hear stories of losing streaks that span hundreds of hours of play.

For example, playing the H17 game mentioned above, after 500 hours of play roughly one out of six counters will be losing just by chance. Card counters often speak in terms of playing tens of thousands of hands in order to be reasonably confident of being ahead of the game.

Big losses have an impact both financially and psychologically. Few beginning counters appreciate how bad it can get. Simply put, card counting is not a money making machine.

Casino Table With Chips
REASON #6: YOU WILL GET CAUGHT
Card counting is old. There is tons of information available on card counting. Card counters are in every casino that offers shoe or hand-dealt blackjack. For this reason, every casino where counting might be possible will be taking precautions and putting safeguards in place. These precautions usually include training staff and management on how to spot counters.

I know counters will get caught because I teach catching counters to casino management. It's easy to spot counters if you know what to look for. And it takes just a few hands.

Here are just a few of the card counting tells that management looks for:

Spread their bets through a wide range (typically 6-to-1 for double-deck and 10-to-1 for six-deck).
Take insurance when their maximum bet is out, otherwise not take insurance.
Make strong doubles when their maximum bet is out (e.g. 10 vs. T/A, 9 vs. 7).
Hit 12 vs. 4/5/6 or 13 vs. 2/3 when their minimum bet is out.
Sit out or leave the table after making several minimum bets.
Play alone, not play rated and not drink alcohol.

If you want to preserve your ability to count cards, you will need to learn how to camouflage your play. Add that to your list of things to learn.
REASON #7: AFTER YOU'RE CAUGHT, YOUR PICTURE WILL BE DISTRIBUTED
If you are card counting then you're going to get caught pretty quickly. It's just too easy. When that happens the casino will most likely have several high resolution images of your face ready to distribute. When I was counting, cameras were recording video on VCRs and grainy images of suspected counters were sent via fax to neighboring casinos. Now your multi-megabyte image along with details of your play and any other available information are going to be posted on subscription websites like the Oregon Surveillance Network or shared via services like Biometrica. This will make it even easier for future casinos to pick you and give you the boot.
SUMMARY
Blackjack basic strategy and card counting are hard skills to master. Even if everything goes right, the profitability from card counting is small while the swings can be brutal. You're not going to be able to play long in any casino, otherwise you're going to get caught. So get ready for a lot of travel and scouting. Once you are inevitably caught your image will be distributed and your playing options will become limited.

I've been on the casino-side of game protection for over a decade now and I can tell you with absolute certainty that the people who are beating casinos for any real money are not counting cards. Blackjack card counting is at the very bottom of the heap when it comes to the various ways to beat casino games. If your goal is to play with an advantage in a casino then there are much faster-to-learn and easier-to-use ways than blackjack card counting.


Card Counting
About the Author
Eliot Jacobson Ph.D.
Eliot Jacobson Ph.D.

Received his Ph.D. in Mathematics from the University of Arizona in 1983. Eliot has been a Professor of both Mathematics and Computer Science. Eliot retired from academia in 2009. Eliot Jacobson



I'm not going to read all of this but it is interesting that casinos don't want card counters on their premises. Learning how to play blackjack and how to card count require great skill and some become very proficient at it. If it was known that card counting was allowed many more would become proficient. Casinos couldn't handle that. Card counting is not for the weak at heart. But the counters are one of the groups casinos don't want.