JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Just lost a cut

Someone wanted to do a patriotic song of mine but wanted to make some changes. I said I was satisfied with cosmetic changes as long as it did not change the meaning of the song. Seems she wanted to write a complete verse, I said not without me approving it first, so she decided she was going to write her own song. I said go ahead but make sure she wasn't repainting mine. I checked her out on the net and found her to be a hip hop artist, not exactly what I write, so who knows what my song would have turned out like if I said go ahead.

Hi Everett:

Win some... lose some... but patriotic hip hop sounds like a real "stretch" to me. Another opportunity will arrive to replace this setback. All the best, ----Dave

I'm going to take the other point of view. Maybe You should have given it a shot....who knows where SHE is heading and who you Might meet. I lost out on MANY opportunities when I was younger and maybe didn't see the whole picture. NOW I'd let an Artist, Singer or Band do what they wanted so MAYBE I'd get a foot in the door. WHY not Patriotic Hip Hop....sounds like an improvement in the Genre.....just my take this morning and not sure I'm correct on this.

I'm going with Barry's opinion here. You just never know and it might be the foot in the door. UNLESS, the song has some personal meaning to you. I probably would not sell out in that case.
But if it's just a song I wrote - yeah, do a patriotic hip hop song with metal influences and sounds from Mars out of it. It's a cut and who knows where it might lead to. Most of us have defined goals like "be a Country songwriter" and try for decades and decades not getting a break - but maybe passed 5 open doors for Pop, Hip Hop, Rock or whatever else on the way. Chase plan A but if plan B, C or D happens, take it. It won't keep you from continuing to chase plan A but might help to get there.
Just my take on this of course.

Yup, The first answer should always be "yes, give it a shot". If it doesn't work out, then at least you know for that artist! Next artist, yes again!

Maybe if this was my first cut I would be desperate enough to get it out there to say yes. But to me it is like prostituting myself just to get a cut. If I believe in something enough to write a song about it and do my best on said song, I should have at least a listen to any changes made to it before approval of it. My name would be attached to it and my name will not be attached to who knows what.

I respect Everett for sticking to his guns and losing the cut but I would have let her run with it (being more desperate than Everett, no doubt!). I am curious how a hip hop artist found your song in the first place.

For good or bad, this is probably going to be more of the norm in music. If you want your songs cut, you are going to be have to be willing to let the artist write on the song, get personally invested in it, or they are not going to cut the song. It is my opinion that within five years there is never going to be another outside cut that an artist doesn't write on. Almost that way now. Artists simply look at music differently now and if they are not involved in the writing, they are not going to be interested. Just an evolution of music, the same way rock evolved after the Beatles.

Now, everyone is a writer themselves and whether we consider them a "good writer' or not,they are the ones with the public persona on the line.

Having said that, I have done the same as Everett. I have had to turn down a cut because someone wanted to change a song dramatically. But even with that, I might have been willing to do that, had I not written the song with a very well known hit writer, and I knew he wouldn't go for it.

This is just something every writer is going to have to deal with. If, like Everett, it feels like "prostituting" to get it, it is in a way, although I look at it much more as adapting to what the dynamic becomes. That is what music does. It adapts. The opinions of the writers have to adapt or not. No one has to pitch their material. And no one HAS to be listened to.

Just have to decide on what means the most to you.
MAB

There is (Usually) a clause in a Publishing Contract that allows Editing a song if needed to better fit the Artist. It is a necessity as most songs do not fit perfectly.

i would have let her done it had i was okay with the changes she made.

I would have said yes but I certainly accept your reasons for not doing so Everett.

I agree with you Marc but still hate it. FOR me it's not the Purist in my anymore but it sticks in my craw that a singer or band that can't really write well THINKS getting their name on as a songwriter will give them MORE Credibility....makes them look more talented and I just think that stinks. I guess I'm just ethical as I could NEVER do that IF I was a star or famous band. I'd give credit to the writer or writers. In America in general today there is no more ethics unfortunately. Young kids are striving for the American Dream BUT AT ALL COSTS....and a lot of their dreams aren't just a good life but it's to be RICH and Famous....It's a joke as Very Few will get there. SO for a singer to want to add something GOOD about their life that's ok but for a singer to just add a line or some stupid nothing for the song or JUST WANTS their name on there and does nothing is Par for the Course in America today. Hey.....Young kids just expect to get songs for free today and Most don't have a clue at HOW HARD writers work to get to where they are. There seems to be very little interesting in HOW things became the way they are or where something comes from. SONGWRITERS are really mostly forgotten and TOTALLY Taken For Granted. THEY Would miss us if we weren't here but for now we are just taken for granted AND IT'S a SHAME.
B

I agree with you Marc but still hate it. FOR me it's not the Purist in my anymore but it sticks in my craw that a singer or band that can't really write well THINKS getting their name on as a songwriter will give them MORE Credibility....makes them look more talented and I just think that stinks. I guess I'm just ethical as I could NEVER do that IF I was a star or famous band. I'd give credit to the writer or writers. In America in general today there is no more ethics unfortunately. Young kids are striving for the American Dream BUT AT ALL COSTS....and a lot of their dreams aren't just a good life but it's to be RICH and Famous....It's a joke as Very Few will get there. SO for a singer to want to add something GOOD about their life that's ok but for a singer to just add a line or some stupid nothing for the song or JUST WANTS their name on there and does nothing is Par for the Course in America today. Hey.....Young kids just expect to get songs for free today and Most don't have a clue at HOW HARD writers work to get to where they are. There seems to be very little interesting in HOW things became the way they are or where something comes from. SONGWRITERS are really mostly forgotten and TOTALLY Taken For Granted. THEY Would miss us if we weren't here but for now we are just taken for granted AND IT'S a SHAME.
B

In the end it is your property, your decision. You threw it out to us for discussion, so I assume you wanted either validation or some kind of discussion.

Question...why would you not have offered to co write something with her that was acceptable to you both...and primarily her?

Cutting her off entirely cut off all opportunity for now and the future. Even had she said no, she might have come back. Now all you are to her is an ornery, pedantic cuss and an unpleasant memory.

I did give her a chance for her to make changes but I would have to approve those changes, but like many young people today, she did not want to bow to another person, maybe she knew I would not approve of what she wanted to do. As the song says, "you have to stand for something or you'll fall for anything". Many young people feel they know it all and are use to getting their own way and will throw a tantrum if they don't get it. I never let my own children dictate to me and I will not let other children dictate to me. If she was going to change it to hip hop, who knows what could have been added to the lyrics, hip hop and rap is known for it's foul language. If I sign off on a blank cheque, I want to know what the maximum amount is going to be, I might not be able to afford the final amount. Name and reputation is worth more to me than dollars and cents.

It's a shame you didn't let her do it, she obviously felt inspired by the song. They say one volunteer is worth ten pressed men

Personally I wouldn't be worried about any swearing, just as long it's not gratuitous or inciting racial and/or religious hatred. Some of the best innovative music comes out of artistic struggle and compromise. But fair play to you for sticking to your guns and it's good that you are getting interest.

I know and respect you as a man of deep faith and principles, so I understand the fear\trepidation you may have regarding the use of your words....and of course it is, as I said, your property so yours to do with as you please.

Still, I think it may have been handled differently and in a way that would have allowed her to show you what she wanted to do with it and still allowed you to have a final say.

But I would also not second guess yourself here. You made a decision based on what you felt so onward and upward. The only thing I might suggest is that you develop a "script" to use in case it happens again.

"I agree with you Marc but still hate it. FOR me it's not the Purist in my anymore but it sticks in my craw that a singer or band that can't really write well THINKS getting their name on as a songwriter will give them MORE Credibility....makes them look more talented and I just think that stinks."

John, I understand this sentament, and do agree in part, but I have to work within the world of "WHAT IS' as opposed to "WHAT IF'S." And the reality of life is that modern people have no real clue or interest WHERE things come from, how much work songwriters put in or any of that. They are ONLY INTERESTED IN THEMSELVES AND WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

Everett has been finding this out recently with his experience with the woman who no longer wanted to record his songs, in leiu of doing her own, and now with this person wanting to be a part of the song and him not wanting to give on that principal.

I am afraid this is more the rule now than the exception and every writer is going to have to make those decisions on their own. I can appreciate his decision, and understand it, but I will have to prepare him that he is going to see this more and more. It is the "new normal' and we are all going to deal with it regardless if we want to or not.

Songwriters can make that decision of "NOT TO PLAY' and that is fine, but they are going to face this from now on.

It is not just music, it is everything. I was with a group of songwriters yesterday and one of them has just invested in a 3 D printer. He is now manufacturing all kinds of things, even had a guitar he had printed from his three D printer. This is going to affect manufacturing of everything and if people just have their own printers, who knows what it is gonig to do to the manufactruing of anything. Could be that most of the rest of the world soon becomes as irrelevant as songwriters have become.

We are already seeing interesting things happen throughout society. For years, musicians, songwriters, labels, publishers, etc. anyone in the creative fields, lived from paycheck to paycheck, no security, no retirement, no benefits, etc. now the rest of the world is living from pay check to paycheck, no benefits, no retirement, etc. Companies downsize, businesses change, culture changes render what many do extinct. And many jobs, opportunities, lifestyles are gone and are not coming back.

All we can say to these people is that those of us in these industries is that we know how you all feel. We have been here all along.

MAB

This is an interesting question for all songwriters to face—how important is my idea? I can see so many ways to view this, and I definitely respect Everett's decision. Some songs are too personally important to change. Sometimes they represent your personal brand, sometimes they mean something to family, sometimes you just want to keep one exactly as you planned it.

Personally, I am almost totally willing to revisit any song in any way at all. I love doing it, in fact. Changing things is fun. The way I see it, each song still exists in every form you ever wrote it, after all, so I don't really care if the versions change. That's how life happens anyway...you try to keep things the same, but time changes them one way or another. C'est la vie.

I would have investigated the artist first.
Maybe try to guess how many units they might sell.

Check the artists social media foot print, twitter follows, youtube views, and FB fans.

If they had lots of followers and lots of views I might be inclined to say yes or even give up a writer share.

Understand their label situation, funding, support and marketing plans.

You also don't know what is going to come from where or who's going to hit it big & who's not.

To me, part of something always makes more sense than all of nothing.

but I have turned down songwriters & artists who wanted to rewrite my songs for a credit.

I also didn't allow a cowriters husband to take my publishing on a song I cowrote with his wife that they were thinking about pitching to Disney. ( They'd placed other songs with Disney )
I didn't say yes.
They didn't pitch it.
Nothing happened
And now their Disney connection retired.


What we do know about the music business is:

it doesn't make any sense.

Most artists won't make it, but a few do.

The best time to get in with an artist is when they are unknown and have no deal.

That most artists and writers who have incredible talent never get the big break or have a single that charts.

That first impressions can be way wrong. and

That Liz Rose is laughing all the way to the bank and many writers who had a chance to write with the artist that lifted Liz beyond the stratosphere, probably now wish they would have.

I agree with MAB, you gotta cowrite with the artists or allow an artists to add touches for credit on what you've written.

More and more cuts will come from being part of production teams.

Drop by www.AllMusic.com
and read the writer credits on recent CDs & hit singles.

IE George Strait http://www.allmusic.com/artist/george-strait-mn0000944084/discography

His 2013 Love is Everything George Strait CD
contained
1 solo write by George
3 cowrites by George & Bubba (his son),
2 of those were with Dean Dillon and
1 was just George & Bubba

1 I Got a Car Tom Douglas / Keith Gattis

2 Give It All We Got Tonight Mark Bright / Tim James / Phil O'Donnell

3 Blue Melodies Wyatt Earp / Keith Gattis

4 I Just Can't Go on Dying Like This George Strait

5 I Thought I Heard My Heart Sing L. Russell Brown / Bill Kenner

6 That's What Breaking Hearts Do Bubba Strait / George Strait

7 When Love Comes Around Again Monty Holmes / Donny Kees / Jeff Silvey

8 The Night Is Young Dean Dillon / Bubba Strait / George Strait

9 Sittin' on the Fence Roger Creager / Keith Gattis

10 I Believe Dean Dillon / Bubba Strait / George Strait

11 Love Is Everything Casey Beathard / Pat McLaughlin

12 You Don't Know What You're Missing Al Anderson / Chris Stapleton

13 When the Credits Roll Steve Bogard / Kyle Jacobs / Randy Montana



but George had no writer credits on his
2003 Honkytonkville CD

1 She Used to Say That to Me Jim Lauderdale / John Scott Sherrill

2 Honkytonkville Buddy Brock / Dean Dillon / Kim Williams

3 Look Who's Back from Town Dale Dodson / Billy Lawson

4 Cowboys Like Us Bob DePiero / Anthony Smith

5 Tell Me Something Bad About Tulsa Red Lane

6 As Far as It Goes Tony Colton / Russell Smith

7 I Found Jesus on the Jailhouse Floor Earl Clark / Greg Hudik

8 Desperately Bruce Robison / Monte Warden

9 Honk If You Honky Tonk Dean Dillon / Ken Mellons / John Northrup

10 Heaven Is Missing an Angel Jerome Earnest / Doug Powell

11 Four Down and Twelve Across Dean Dillon / Tommy Douglas

12 My Infinite Love Annette Grossberg / Byron Hill / Billy Yates


Lastly album cuts just get Mechanical Royalties, so if you're lucky enough to get a cut, your cut needs to be released as a single and needs to do well on the charts, staying on for many weeks and breaking the top 5 or top 10.

Plus now CDs and even digital downloads aren't selling nearly as many copies as they used to.

As usual, Fact checker andy Rasmussen has the facts and figures and is dead on. By the way Ande man, why did I never do a guitar vocal on the song you and I wrote? You sent me that and I was wondering why there was only a work tape. Remind me over the next week or so and let me at least do a decent guitar vocal work tape on it. And thank you again, for helping at the Music Cares event a few weeks ago. Nice to meet your wife (and you for the first time face to face) and letting me sit at your table. (folks Ande really helped out a great charity for Musicians in this town.

I was telling them over here about Liz Rose's comments about Taylor Swift's abilities. Always a few doubters here. I'm a believer. And she has told me that privately as well.

One of your "things we know" for your list:

MAB will often miss the golden opportunities that drop right in his lap,
"Writing with Garth Brooks,(unsigned at the time)

Missing a cut with Garth Brooks ("Holding on to a song for self to be an "ARTIST!" Famous last words!)

Missing a co-write with Taylor Swift, because she was a 'Teenager and what do those people know?"

So yes, when it comes to advice, either ignore everything I say, or know that I HAVE SHOT MYSELF IN THE FOOT MORE TIMES THAN MOST OF YOU WILL EVER GET A CHANCE TO!

MAB

I don't know if it is a lack self respect, pride or scruples or just pure greed that would lead a singer to ask for their name be included as a co-writer when they had nothing to do with writing the song. I had an occasion where I was asked by a local artist to help him finish a song that was about half written, which I did. He wanted to give me 50% co-write but I said no, give me 25%, because it was his idea to start with plus his tune and about half the lyrics, I did not think I made a 50% contribution to the song. I don't remember if I was a Christian at that time but I would not take credit for more than I thought was fair. I know times are changing and people will take credit and glory for things they did not do, which is the way of the world, but it must be a hollow victory to them and should bother their conscience if they have one. That is why we should never let our conscience be our guide, it is too easily seared, it might bother you the first time you do something you know is wrong, but each time you do it, it gets easier and easier, until it does not bother you at all.

A writer can only make money a few ways on what he writes, airplay and mechanical royalties, and they are shrinking fast, while artist make most of their money through performing, sales of CDs and merchandise, endorsements, etc. Still they want to steal a share of the writers royalties. Maybe it's just me, the way I was brought up, but I am glad when I can look in the mirror without being ashamed. God knows I'm not perfect, I've made plenty of mistakes for which I am ashamed, but I am forgiven, and I try my best not to make them again. If that makes me a fool in the eyes of the world, so be it, I am trying to please God, not man.

Stand your ground, Everett:

I read all these responses and shrug. When did we decide to take the "low self esteem" route? If you buy a book or painting... are you going to have the stupid audacity to ask the creator to include you as a co-creator simply because you plan to hang the painting on your office wall... or read the book to your book-of-the-month club?

This very morning, I received a notice from ASCAP wanting me to write my congressperson or senator begging them to support the songwriter's equity act. All this because some low life, moron Judge decides in Pandora's favor. Will I write? Absolutely. Do I think it will do any good? Hell no!

You guys can do what you want with your music. Let some Rap "artist" profane your work and add his/her name alongside yours in the profit sharing column (as if there is any profit on our level) and the world will be a better place. LOL!

I applaud you Everett... for doing what you thought is right.

Everett,

It is none of those. It is developing a propriety in the song. Without the artist, where are you? Where is your song? Are you on the road promoting it? Are you dealing with people that refuse to pay you after you have driven hundreds of miles to a gig that no one showed up or the venue owner absconded with the money? Are you paying the bills of people in your team who don't pull their weight? Are you incurring the expenses of writing, recording, promoting?

That is really the deal. Writers can approach their music however they want. But complaining about it does nothing. Writers only write their songs. Important but not everything. It is actually about 15% of it. And about 9% of an artists money comes from recorded material at all.

So what happens? They write their own songs. Period. You still have 100% of your song.Sitting in your computer or at your house. Now that is fine for some people. But if you want to participate in the real world, you are going to have to understand what the real world is.

I have had to cut all kinds of people in on songs to get them cut. Publishers that did nothing. Artists that did nothing. 90% of this business is about giving credit to other people. The key is making other people look good and bringing something to everyone else's bottom line and hopefully yours as well.

But if you are expecting anything to be "fair' or right. This is really not the business for you to be in. Because it never is.

MAB

Hey Marc,
The Artist is the Salesman and without them the product just sits in the factory. SOMEBODY has to call on the customers and give the pitch and that is the Band or Singers. Marketing and PR is really important also to get a buzz going. My youtube page is great as my legacy and that's ok....BUT it is like having a Great Store with Great Items....on a side street, with the blinds drawn, no sign and no Advertising....NOBODY Knows you are there so what good is the great looking store and items. ALSO I BELIEVE a Provocative and Eye catching TITLE is essential especially for an unknown writer and Artist. I go to the Book Store and just look around sometimes......and guess which books I'm drawn to check out....yep....the catchy titles and art of the cover......SO it IS a Team....B

This is true in nearly every field. Just my opinion, but the main culprit is "technology". It leveled the playing field so much that there's very little $$$ value in anything, and so we are left to scramble.

That doesn't make technology evil, it just means that we have to adapt.

Did I ever tell ya how in the late 90's, I was making $70,000 a year as a pay phone technician? Thought I was set for life, until the first person with a cell phone came walking down the street.

Midnite

Very true Bob.

At one time, if you wanted to get anywhere going West, you had to have a stagecoach driver, Teamsters, or wagon train. Was the only way to make it alive, and sometimes that didn't even help. Ask the Donner Party.
As time went on, the Railroads came in, then airplanes, cars, mass transit. Now everyone pretty much gets along pretty well. A lot of people get displaced or adapt. Elevator operators, buggy whip manufacturers, etc. were replaced. We've seen it in every industry.

When the Internet allowed everyone to have a voice, everyone to have a soapbox, every one to be able to make their own music, videos, pictures, etc. Camera phones have demolished photography, videographers, studios, etc. They still exist, but are very much into NICHEING.

Artists and writers have had to adapt to this. They CAN do everything themselves, for good and for bad. Most of it is mediocre. To really get to a higher level, they would do best to work with more experienced writers. They generally don't. Not much you can do about that except try to find people who will.

Writers are going to HAVE to pair up with artists if they want anything done with their songs. Within five years I don't think there will ever be another outside cut period. Even the "outside cuts" that come into a place like Nashville, are never really 'outside." They are inner circles of friends and relationships that actually have known each other a long time. Outside cuts can't compete with that.

That is where we are. And everyone needs to understand it if they do this.Everyone can ALWAYS write for themseles. Write em up, record what you want, put em on I tunes, do a camera phone video, start your own channel, whatever. You can always do that. About thirty million people are doing just that.

But if you want someone else to record what you do, you are going to have to make some decisions about how much you actually want that. Because it is going to require giving up part of that song. That is just the evolution of music.

But here is the great thing. No one HAS TO PLAY. It's a hobby that you can make up your own rules. That's kind of cool.

MAB

With the exception of those at the very top, there is no money in being an artist. Most artists who go on tour lose money after driving halfway around the country and couch surfing with strangers. Being a writer is one way that is left to make a little money, should the song happen to sell. That is why they want to be a co-writer.

Sounds a lot like scab labour or the underground economy. I'll give you a job at a lower rate of pay so I can undercut the trades people, sure my product will not be quality but if I can sell it, I will make more profit. The consumer will get cheated but who cares. Is that the attitude of today's artist, steal from the little guy to make themselves rich. Take credit for someone else's skill or talent because they lack that talent themselves.

Post deleted by Everett Adams

hey Everett,i just thought about what happened to one of my songs.I let someone do the music to "Arkansas Moonshine" which tells you right off the bat without reading the lyrics how it should sound,boy did he screw it all up.He didn't change any words,he only added the worse possible music to this lyric even though it was country.I had a hillbilly version of it but he mutilated it.It's too bad cause he lives close by and does really does cool music.But he failed on this one.Mike

I know what you mean Michael, I've had a few songs demoed that didn't turn out the way I had hoped. I sing and play(badly) just enough to get my idea of what I want my song to go like across to the demo studio. Most of them do get it done the way I envision it to be, but a few times, not so much. A few songs I demoed it the second time at a different studio to get what I wanted.

“The music business is a cruel and shallow money
trench,
a long plastic hallway where thieves and
pimps run free,
and good men die like dogs.
There's also a negative side.”
― Hunter S. Thompson

thanks MAB! I'm kind of a nerd on fact checking, I used to write a newsletter for songwriters and attempted to share accurate info

It was wonderful to finally meet you and we should talk about our song and what's next.

It's hard decision for an artist who doesn't have a deal, but wants one, who's written a really good song that another artist wants to record.

Karen Taylor Good cowrote "How Can I Help You Say Goodbye"
that wound up being a hit for Patty Loveless
www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4F_cXGQN9k


Kacey Muskgraves cowrote "Mama's Broken Heart" that was a hit for Miranda Lambert, then a little Later Kacey's career took off & she won a grammy
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yg05svXp98


Here's a story about Austin's Christine Albert

Who got the deal,
found the song, then lost the deal
then watched the song she found become a huge hit for another artist who copied her recording note for note.

"Albert had rolled into Austin in 1982, with a truckful of possessions and a pocketful of borrowed money. It was a bigger pond, but it didn't take long for her to make ripples. With the help of veteran musician Ernie Gammage, whom she married a year later, she was gigging across Texas.

Austin only stirred her ambitions for the biggest pond of all-Nashville-and she started knocking on doors.

One of those doors belonged to Larry Hamby, head of Artists & Repertoire for CBS Nashville. He had followed Albert ever since his brother had called from Texas, raving about seeing her on TV. One day, she dropped into his office with a new demo tape.

"While he was listening to it, he called my lawyer on the phone," says Albert. "He said, 'Jim, why don't you just start working on a contract for Christine Albert?' I was just out for a walk, and when I left his office I had a record deal."

Her fairy tale had come true. It was 1988, and she was making an album for a major label, with the same producers who had made stars of The Judds.

Her star turned out to be a falling one. Before the record could be released, the label was sold. Hamby left, and with him went all his artists. In place of a major-label disc, Albert limped home to record a self-released cassette.

It was back to the grind of regional touring, with the added responsibility of raising her new son, Troupe.

Mandolin player Paul Glasse, who backed her for nine years, remembers her resolve to juggle both jobs. "We were doing a duo gig at the Tyler Museum of Art. It was the first time she'd been away from her son for much of a period of time. After the gig, we got in the van, and she said, 'Paul, get in the driver's seat and look forward, and don't turn around.' She turned on the electric breast pump and we drove back toward Austin."

Nashville was still calling, and Albert was scouring Texas for "the song," some undiscovered blockbuster that would blow away record execs and knock open the gates of radio. At the Kerrville Folk Festival, she found it.

On a tape from songwriter Jon Ims, Christine heard a track titled, "She's in Love With the Boy." She sped up the tempo, got it onto a record and started to shop it around Nashville.

Her instincts were dead-on, but her luck was not. The song became a number-one country single-for a little-known artist named Trisha Yearwood.

To deepen the sting, Yearwood's arrangement followed Albert's almost note-for-note. Albert had handed her tape to the very producer who'd later recorded Yearwood.

She tried not to take it personally. Album cuts were often carbon-copies of demos. But she hadn't meant her record as a demo. The song haunted her for years."


Ande

Ande,

That is pretty interesting. I actually remember Christine Albert, I think we did a writers night at the old THIRD COAST CAFE. I also moved to town in 1988. AND also had dealings with Larry Hamby. My first cut, THAT'S WHERE IT HURTS was on CBS recorded by SHELBY LYNNE. CBS was one of the labels interested in me.

I had similar things happen. A song of Steven Seskin's I was interested in and started performing live, "DADDY'S MONEY" was a hit for Richochet. I also turned down a cut on my song CAN'T BLAME NOBODY BUT ME, when I was approached by two guys at a show of mine. Turned out those two guys were Bob Doyle, a former exec with ASCAP. The other guy who I did not meet, because he stood in the shadows was GARTH BROOKS.

There are a lot of roads you go down in this life. You hope you make the right choices, and a lot of time those choices are made for you. You just hope it all works out okay.

Always remember:

YOU DON'T CHOOSE MUSIC. MUSIC CHOOSES YOU.

MAB

Ya know Marc, even if you didn't turn Garth Brooks down you'd probably be where you are right now doing what you're doing. Sure you'd have other cuts and maybe have a bit more in the bank but with the way the industry has headed, even the big time writers are scrambling and doing things to survive in the industry as you've pointed out.

Still, that has to hurt but at least you didn't let it ruin you. You went on and wrote good songs.

It's weird how things happen. Are destinys real? Probably not. It's just life and choices.

Eric Lindros was drafted first overall by the Quebec Nordiques but he refused to go there so Philly made a trade and over goes a bunch of players to Quebec and others to Philly.Two seasons later Quebec Nordiques becomes the Colorado Avalanche and those players ,most notably (Peter Forsberg) won the Stanley Cup the first year! What did Eric Lindros get? A short career because he was obliterated with concussions.

I don't know what my point is. Forsberg had to retire because of injuries too.
We're all glad you're not Eric Lindros. He can't function all that well his brain is so messed up.

I also forgot in that trade the Avs got Patrick Roy by trading one of the draft picks that Philly traded to Quebec a few years earlier. (Thibeault) to Montreal. And traded a draft pic for Rob Blake. Yea what a trade that was.

Just shows you never know what's gonna happen.

Thanks for that Aaron. I think of that often. most of the people that I moved to town with, hit writers, artists, publishers, etc. are completely out of the business. It changed around them and they didn't react to it. So I am fortunate to still be doing this.

Hey, I want to turn this back over to Everett, I didn't really want to get into my stuff. The only way I would try to send it back is that if you start focusing on artists and working those into your music, you will be more likely to have them seriously consider or actually record the songs. The days of the outside cut (which have never really been that outside) are pretty much done.

Sorry to distract from your thread there Everett. I wish you luck finding what you are looking for.

MAB