An interesting thread.

Being a lyrics only guy who doesn’t have a note in his head, I always rely on others to write a melody and sing to arrive at a completed song.

I find that if I want to write a song, it normally takes about a month to complete. One I did look over 2 years of putting away and going back time after time after time.

I can’t calculate hours spent on 1 verse then next day re-starting it because with a fresh reading it wasn’t right.

Then when I am convinced it’s finished I post it on JPF and friends and members
come in with suggestions and comments, many of which make me realise that I need to re-work and so off I go again.

So I make changes and then sometimes I realise that although the original wasn’t quite right, the suggestions given also were not quite right, so I search for what is right for what I want to say.

It all takes time and a great deal of deep thinking.

Looking at your song Polly ‘If You Could’ (which I love by the way), I know the time you spent on the lyrics was an awful lot and to say that that is only a small part of your song is IMO belittling the greatness of the words that you created.

Yes the music and your singing added to the finished song, but without your inspired words. What then?

When I feel my lyrics are ready I send them to my studio to have a melody written which I pay for.

Obviously the studio hope that I will use them to have the complete demo made, which will give them a financial benefit.
BUT should I decide not to have the demo done, the melody is mine as a ‘work for hire agreement’. I normally receive the melody as a single guitar track with vocals and the tempo it’s in. That costs me $80 and it’s done and dusted.

They do understand from having a working relationship with me that if they just ‘knock a tune up’ then the demo work will not follow so they normally come up trumps.

So I have a melody for which I have paid and I can hear it. That is a single business transaction.

NEXT, if I want the demo that becomes a separate transaction for which I will pay, and they have various types of demo that I can go for, from simple guitar/vocal to super demo.

I do see where those who say the production and singer make the song are coming from, because whenever I get my melody back it never sounds good enough for me.
I can’t see a great song IMO. Then when I get the finished full demo, using that melody, I always go wow and am normally bowled over.

I can always find a studio or GOOD musician to write me a melody for my words, but
I don’t see many people out there offering to write GREAT ORIGINAL lyrics to order.
Sure occasionally we can write a song off the cuff and it works, but often just coming up with the GREAT idea for the song to start with can require a lot of mental work.

A musician or studio has a big advantage over a lyric writer because they have something to start from. They read the words and form the tune. The lyricist doesn’t have that benefit. He or She is always starting from scratch.

I am not knocking music because without it the song wouldn’t work.

IMO the lyrics and final melody/arrangement/singer all have a place in the completion of a song. Too what degree depends on the way each person adds to it.

Crap lyrics with great music with a great singer can and often does work.

Great lyrics with not so good music but a GREAT singer can also work. Etc etc etc.

Referring Polly to Helen’s song ‘Burned’ that you and Haze did for us and your question.

----- quote -------

How is the lyric, IN ANY OF THESE SONGS, better or more important than the instrumentation, melody, and performance? Please tell me!

------ end quote ----

Of course in this finished song all elements have an equal value, and YES you both made a great job of it.
But I say that had Helen not written the words and had Haze and you not seen what to do with those words then the lyric sheet would still be in the suitcase gathering dust where it laid for 25 years.

So I think all parties contributed.

Anyway I could go on and on but won’t.

This has become a big hijack. Sorry Sam

God Bless to all Roy and Helen

Last edited by Roy Cooper; 10/02/10 02:12 PM.
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