STRUCTURE:
Structure: (7) Where can I learn about proper lyric/song structure?
Song Length: How long of a song is too long?
Song Length: How long should my intro be? (obviously, cut to the chase!) but people really need to know this.
Song Structure: As to song structure. It has been noted that a popular song needs to have a beginning, middle, and end. It has been noted from time to time, that a song, popular type, should be about 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 minutes long.
Song Length: A song too short may not be a song at all and one too long may get too repetitious.
A song should not give away everything until it is ready in the song. In other words, a bit of mystery. But of course the song still has to have some continuity instead of a bunch of words just thrown together.
Song-Writing: Modern Rhyme, Meter, Rhythm, Phrasing. How to use repetition. The Vowel Triangle (Open and Closed vowels).to create singable lines.
A song that is pretty long but works perfectly is EL PASO by Marty Robbins. Keep writing.
"Forty Shades Of Green", Johnny Cash.
"Stairway To Heaven", Led Zeppelin.
"Hotel California", The Eagles.
Song-Writing Quality: 7. Questions about improving writing (funny, if this were the number one question, most of the other questions would answer themselves.)
Structure: What is song structure? Where can I learn about proper lyric/song structure?

Song Length: Concept: I think information about concept and length is important and a good addition to the answer for this question.

Structure: I do believe beginning songwriters need some understanding of structure though, before they venture out of the box. Once you know what rules you're breaking it's easier to get away with it.

Structure: So if someone could answer the specific - what is structure. Maybe there's a post you could refer to regarding structures - ABABCB, or AAA or possibly the difference between Pop Verse-Chorus and Country Verse-Chorus. I don't think we can go into depth but I think a starting point is important.

Critique: I am reminded of our first song critique submission - a meandering 7 minute, ABABCAAABCDEFG.... I can't repeat the comments here. Ouch.

Books: Don't forget book suggestions on the subject.
Here's one - Songwriting - A Complete Guide to the Craft, Stephen Citron

Structure: Where can I learn about proper lyric/song structure?

A) What is song structure

There are several categories of song structures; lyric, rhyme, melody and chord structures. Here is one of the basic lyric structures used in many pop and country songs.

A - verse 1
B - chorus
A- Verse 2
B - Chorus
C - Bridge (or verse 3)
B - Chorus

Rhyme Structure: A basic rhyme structure in a verse containing 4 lines:
Rhyme the last word of lines 2 and 4
Verse 2 rhyme differs from verse 1.
The last line of the chorus is generally the hook, or punchline of the song.

Study song lyrics of hit songs and you will often see this structure.

Pre-Chorus/Lift: You may also see an additional line or two between the verse and chorus. This is the lift, meant to carry the power of the song upward into the chorus.

This is only one of many song forms. We highly recommend you study a good book on the subject.
Song-Writing/Structure: B) Where can I learn about songwriting and song structure:

Learning: As far as where to learn, a lot depends on how you learn. Some folks learn best from books, others from organized classes; some like the �immersion therapy� of songwriting camps. You may learn best from watching other people. The lyric and song forums here on JPF are an excellent resource. Read lyrics and what other people say about them; try to get a handle on what people consider �good� in your chosen genre, and why.

Rules: Once you understand how to write a song by the rules, you can start to break them. Say something new, or say something old in a new way. Change the structure, use structures you are unfamiliar with. AAA, AABA, AAAC. Look them up. Try them on. Break them completely. See what happens.

Books: Book recommendations:
The Craft and Business of Songwriting, John Braheny
http://www.amazon.com/Craft-Business-Songwriting-3rd-Edition/dp/1582974667

Writing Better Lyrics, Pat Pattison
http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Better-Lyrics-Pat-Pattison/dp/1582975779/ref=pd_sim_b_4

Songwriting, A complete Guide to the Craft, Stephen Citron

http://www.amazon.com/Songwriting-C...&keywords=Songwriting+Stephen+Citron

Joe Wrabek
I�ll just be providing a starting point for others to talk from. What I say will reference country music, too, because that�s what I write. There are other genres, and some of the rules are different. You should also take what I say with a large amount of salt, because I am not famous by any means.

Structure: There are music-industry experts who will tell you a country music song should follow the pattern of verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus. I think that�s c**p. You�ll find most good songs ignore that format. I pay attention to it only when it�s convenient (which is not often).

Last edited by Gary E. Andrews; 10/17/22 11:32 AM.
There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com