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Bayside
by Gary E. Andrews - 10/19/26 09:48 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,778 Likes: 24
Top 50 Poster
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Top 50 Poster
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,778 Likes: 24 |
Thanks, Pete! Maroon, thanks for listening and I'm glad you found my production good. I have to disagree about Ricki's verses wanting to be in 6/8. 6/8 (as in chopping off 3/8 out every 9/8) would make the lines all run into one another creating enjambments up the yin yang and it would be hard for the singer to catch her breath. The verses would feel claustophobic, even if the tempo were to be slowed down even more than it is. 12/8 (adding another 3/8 to the 9/8) would mean holding a note near the end of each line (of lyric), and would work better than 6/8, feeling like a swing-time 4/4 then, but 9/8 works best and is the most organic choice, I believe. It allows for the right amount of breathing between lines/phrases, and the three accented notes 7, 8, and 9 are processed mentally by most listeners as pick-up notes since the rhythm section is supporting 9/8 feel and not fighting it. Plus, 9/8 takes into account the song's mood and meaning, I believe. I don't think a first listening where one has to "get their bearings" is a bad thing. For example, there's plenty of 6/8 songs that start out accenting 1,3, and 5--and you think the song is in a (3=2) faster tempo..then the band comes in and 1 and 4 get emphasis..and you go "aaaaah!" ---cuz there's much pleasure to be had and found in this intentional deception on the composer's part by holding back part of a rhythm for a bigger payout later. You are not an average listener, Maroon, and I think perhaps you are overthinking this. I think for most, ANY time signature and combination of time signatures (in a piece) can work if the choices follow the natural inclinations that a lyric will engender, taking into account the lengths of the lyrics' lines/phrases and allowing for breathing space (not too much, not too little) between those lines/phrases, and at a higher (meta) level, taking into account the songs meaning and mood. These were concepts The Romantics (Wagner for instance..and moderns like Sondheim) latched onto in their choral, theatrical and operaric writing, veering away from cookie-cutter Mozartian 3/4 and 4/4. Instrumental music has other ways to make un-boxy phrases and odd time signatures feel "right" and often it's the same concept of letting the melody be the "hero" on the journey--like narrative story-telling. With pop music (and all its variants) it's certainly less common (than say, in theatre) but not at all a foreign concept. Ironically, the more sophisticated the music writing, the more apt it is to let the lyric take it down some path less travelled. Folks like Bacharach made careers undermining expectation in their music. Imagine listening to "Anyone Who Had A Heart" for the first time. It needs a dozen listens before you realize how perfect the odd, unboxy phrases are.  I know that you aren't disagreeing with any of that, but perhaps saying, more or less, that Ricki's composition doesn't feel like it "grew from her lyric" but that's where I differ with you, for reasons stated. 12/8 could work, but 9/8 gives the song a restless quality that matches the overall mood and feel of Ricki's lyric. She is thinking about him and it's making her get all 9/8, so to speak! Too antsy (from thinking about him) to wait another 3 eighth notes. 12/8 would have felt a little too pat and boxy, long and slow for what the lyric is doing, in my humble opinion. Mike
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 12/21/17 06:31 PM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon) from the song "Songs of Love" from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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