JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Blazetrak...

Nite,

You haven't walked in my shoes, so you can't really presume to know what I have and haven't been through.

We can agree to disagree though brother. Nothing wrong with that. I respect what you do and I would appreciate it if you afford me the same respect.

Persol note - Mike I will do the "songs" track after my new release with Yann. First things first.

Secondly - You know yourself Mike, that I have sent your material to the best people I know.

Once, I did it without your permission. I did it because it was right. I emailed you afterwards, and everything was cool. Why woudd't it be ?

Like you, I have some great contacts, have worked with brilliant people, but SO WHAT ? I make sure that the people who have broadcast quality work here on JPF, are represented on the major databases, ( think News Corp ) but again, SO WHAT !

Contacts don't mean jack sh*t. The work simply isn't there. It's all a Lottery Ticket and we all know it. Why try to pretend ? It's exceelance which will make the day, full stop.

I'm not going to wrangle any more with some one who is jumping up and down and is playing pretty princesses. The real world is getting up at 3 am, and BY GOD, they better be worthy of broadcasting.

cheers, niteshift

Hey Greg,

Pleaae don't give me the "walking in your shoes" stuff, because it just doesn't cut it.

Geg, you haven't even seen the start of this industry. Get real. Grow up.

Sorry to offend.

cheer, niteshift

Note ; Post edited for language, for which I appologise.

Have a good one Nite. I'm done here.

I don't mean you any harm Greg, and i wish you all the best.

I'm just over bullshit.

cheers, niteshift

Nite,

Sometimes the day ends at 3 a.m. At least it did for me last night. Long day of writing and recording. Two new tracks for my library. Tracked vocals for another artist. Many phone calls throughout the day. Plus working on the database for my library website (almost finished, probably some time later today).

While I've not used Blazetrack, I don't have a problem with their system - from my very limited view of it, it reminds me a little of TAXI. People tend to love TAXI. However, TAXI doesn't give video feedback.

I did use TAXI for a short time - against the advice from Brian. There were good things and not so good things about it. In the end I wasn't unhappy, but Brian was correct in his warning to me. It had nothing to do with the quality of what I do, but everything to do with the fact that I am the artist and not really writing music that fits other people.

Which is why I won't track down services like TAXI or Blazetrack. I don't hold anything against them. They're just not for everyone. I think Ott's assessment of it is a very good one. I've done similar things. All of which is beginning to pay off in spades. Eventually it's going to help some people I know as well, cause I like to help my friends.

The world's idea of success is way off base. It equates fame and fortune with success. Most of us would be better off ignoring that nonsense. A bird soaring in the sky is success to me. Writing a song is a success.

Blazetrak isn't unethical. Just a guy trying to make a buck. Whether he offers a good service or not is up to the consumer to decide.

Greg I understand your disappointment at me not liking your song much.
But my short critique was free and probably spoke more frank truth than a few hundred bucks spent with Blazetrak. You are trying to buy a dream.....they are selling a belief that dreams might become reality albeit indirectly and by implication so both of you are happy.....sadly few dreams come true. I agree with Nite but would not quite go to the extremes of bluntness and language.....the only way to get ahead in this business and earn true respect from peers is to learn the craft and learn the business.....not just hang out and write lyrics with boy bands.

I agree with a lot you say about buying a dream...it cannot be done. However for the record I do not hate everything I love great music....I hate bad music that includes most pop and boy bands etc. I also hate how the industry works or should I say does not work in as much as the naff acts seem to get acclaim whilst the truly great acts get little or nothing. That is a product of a sick society. Because so many people condone such things and some encourgae them somebody has to make a stand and put in words what most people just think.

That's a little brutal! (ha, ha) The point you may be missing is that maybe Gregory really likes that type of music, has a blast writing it and wants to keep doing it. Therefore he needs to get into those "circles" to be successful. ... and if he really likes it, who are we to judge -- even if we don't see the appeal.


I hear where you are coming from. I liked that Airplanes song -- until the guy started rapping. I just don't get that. Early rap was the street poetry of the ghetto -- now it is soulless. But in the end, we can't stop pop music nor should we try. It is a big world with lots of choices.

Kevin

He would do better and write better lyrics and perhaps learn how to handle the music writing side as well if he mixed and learned from real musicians who write real songs.....sorry to be so blunt.

Oh man Were you do start with that? lol
Get ahead in this business? What business? Greg's the one here doing business. And he has learned to work with his peers, and he does, and has learned the craft and a craft.
I don't know if it can ever be explained softly or clearly that writing a POP HIT SONG is a craft and it is a TREMENDOUS business effort. My goodness how easy is that to see?

For those who do neither to obsess about the subject is mind boggling to me. I always feel I should have a real reason to complain or bicker. Those reasons usually come from me trying to death to do something and others not making it happen.
I understand the doubts and the realities of dreams and broken dreams all to well. It doesn't mean you should try to kill the dream for others even if it's over for you. That includes everybody.. I'm talking in general here.
Again screw me, but anybody who wants to make a list of heartbreaking opportunities and try to place it next to mine LOSES!!! I'll bet lungs on it.

Yet I never make the kids who come here feel like that, Never encourage them to be a hater. Someone especially who calls themselves a lover of music and an artist should always be that first. I never DOWN there music meaning the new young artist they listen too to them. Of course we show them other great stuff from the past. And we love it when they respect that even if they don't like it (yet) Or get it yet.... So they respect us just like we do them. And there 12 YEAR OLD little girls! lol Hey Oh What's a matter wit you guys?

Even if you've been through alot and are beaten to near death in this field. Don't you remember the excitement? The joy and the feeling of EXTRA great pride and purpose that something you love doing and have dreamed about and worked so hard on was being considered to be put out there for the whole world possibly.
Doing it in just to do it in the first place is a GIVEN. So throw that talk in the trash can

The excitement of waiting for that phone call, or the conversation you actually have with someone who could make your goal in life happen... DESPITE the goal! It's the point that matters.Sharing the enthusiasm and the frustration, the disappointments the almosts and the success with those who worked with you. And those who UNDERSTAND how much this goal means you, no matter the goal. Remember the feeling of being young and alive, that anxiousness of call for a girl or boy, that first date, first kiss. That's what your music should always be like impossible as it actually is, I know.

The feeling of putting that American Dream into reality, Mom here's that house I promised, I know you were proud of me anyway but... Kids your future is set... "HEY bozo's from the old job especially the boss and those harsh kids back at school I TOLD you's I could do it. I believed in myself and it was NEVER ABOUT THE MONEY OR FAME. If it was I would have gave up 10 years ago.... lol

Some folks are content watching the Superbowl others just want to be play in it ONCE! Despite what year it is or who's playing now, what's wrong with that?

All the best.
Great thread believe it or not!

Jim, Niteshift, Kevin, and everyone else who has an issue with this concept or model, just answer me one question. If the person you admired or respected the most in music invited you to audition for them for a potential gig, job, placement, etc. and it was on your own dime to get to where they were and you were given 5 minutes to make it or break it, would you or would you not go? Its a simple yes or no question.

Yes

.... and the full answer is Yes -- if I thought I had a decent chance at being successful.

Yes.

And the reason is, because they INVITED me, not because I PAID some third party to get me there.

The music industry, what's left of it, has so little pride anyway. I won't be a part of the crumbs that are left in the biscuit barrel.

cheers, niteshift

PS - there is no such thing as the 5 minute pitch. It does not exist. It is an urban myth. In reality, it's more like a 2 hr chat fest of like minds. Would you invite someone into your project, and play the 5 minute producer ? Again, this rubbish is coming from LA LA land. And even there, the 5 minute pitch doesn't exist in reality. It's a learning tool, in order to be brief and concise.

So the issue is that you are paying us, not that you are paying in general. LOL. You will pay an airline $500 but wont pay us $75 to give you the same opportunity. Hilarious, but I guess you have your "principles"

And what you are failing to recognize for some reason is that when a Pro decides to use our site to accept submissions, they are INVITING you by opening themselves up to the public and willing to take submissions AND respond to everyone of them.

And sorry to burst your bubble, but no one is gonna sit around for 2 hours to have a chat fest if your 5 mins isnt good enough in the 1st place. At some point you have to make a first impression which is what leads to more interaction down the line.

I just sense a huge amount of bitterness in your comments. Its as if the biz has done you wrong and you dont want anyone else to have a shot UNLESS they take the long road that you seem to have traveled.

When your idea of “the music business” is so screwed up that you think everyone who works in it is nothing short of a crook, then perhaps it’s time to look in the mirror and ask yourself, “if I worked in the music industry, would that make me a crook?” The answer is simple. Unless you’re doing things of a criminal nature, you’re not a crook and neither are the legitimate people who work in the industry who have built their empires and fulfilled their dreams.

Where exactly is “the music industry” located? For some, they would tell you the industry is in the west somewhere near the heart of Los Angeles. Others would argue that the genie in the bottle rests in the mid-west where the cowboy hats roam at large. That place is Nashville, the land of guitar strumming, gun toting yee-haws sitting in droves on benches overlooking Lyric Street from their porches. Or, so the picture would appear in the minds of those who dream of one day resting a rifle of their own on their laps whilst strumming a beat up guitar they owned since childhood.

Whether “the music industry” is described as Los Angeles, Nashville, New York, Orlando, or some other place across the pond, the truth still remains that there is a misconception about what the definition of the world of dream makers should be. Whether you’re writing and/or performing pop music, country music, rock music, or some other type of (pick your genre) music, they all have one thing in common. It’s ALL music.

I wasn’t going to respond to this post as there are some who would prefer to attack the validity of what I do rather than admit to themselves that I might actually be fulfilling what I have set out to do with MY life, not theirs. I don’t have a problem with other people choosing to perform in cover bands to make a living. I have no problem with people playing in coffee houses, empty to near empty bars, or singing about the last drop of a liquor bottle they nursed during a lonely night of melancholy solitude.

Yeah, I do have friends who are in boybands. So what? They’re not the only friends I have and to presume I am sitting around writing lyrics with boy bands all day, every day, is laughable. I’m certainly laughing! HA HA HA HA

I was a college radio dj before I left for four years to serve in the United States Air Force. I am sure there’s a few on this board who would find something about that to complain about. Save your breath. I’m sick and tired of the bitterness seeping out of people who think they have the right to tell me how I should conduct myself in a business THEY aren’t even in.

I’ve worked my ass off to get somewhere with my dream. Ask Brian. Ask mike caro, jody whitesides, and others who have watched me from the beginning. I’ve been a member of JPF since 1999. I was a pompous, know it all kid back then with NO experience in the industry who wrote mediocre lyrics at best back then. Since then, I’ve grown in experience, both in the industry and in life, and I have earned the right to have a say on some things. Telling me I haven’t even begun to see what the industry is like is an insult to me. I’ve sat in the living room of one of my best friend’s houses in Los Angeles during New Years Eve as members of the band Chicago and Toto jammed together until the clock struck midnight. I’ve rubbed elbows with industry executives at parties in Los Angeles, at showcases, at red carpet events, and I’ve been in the studio as a guest of a major producer who wrote some of the biggest classics such as “Joy to the World” by Three Dog Night.

I’ve built a great writing team and we’re working with industry professionals who have our back and who have been part of some of the biggest hits in the past ten years. So don’t presume to tell me I don’t know jack [naughty word removed] thank you very much. I know what it’s like to work day and night trying to get somewhere. I’ve spent hours in the studio working on material and projects in the hopes that it will propel me forward in my “career”. I’m not just a lyricist. I wear many different hats. I’ve helped connect people to professionals who as a result, have gotten the attention of executives at Sony, Universal, Atlantic, and Island Def Jam. In some instances, those turned into actual signings.

I brought up Blaze Trak here as a genuine desire to show people that if they don’t know where to go to make the connections they normally would NEVER make, they could check this new company out. I didn’t create this thread so you guys could crap on the industry, disrespect other people (including myself), and hang me out to dry as if I am some insignificant piece of laundry you can discard at will.

So put your “bullshit” meters away and show some damn respect. If you don’t want to use Blaze Trak, don’t, but shut the hell up so others can decide for themselves what they want to do.

That is all.

Sorry to interject....

But YES I would pay $500 to fly down on there invite, but NO cause they ain't NEVER gonna give me that invite! I can't reach em to even get it.

That's the WHOLE point, Blazetrak at least has an invite, to offer you, so you can show your face at the party and mingle with the other invites. Not a VIP but an invite the rest is up to you and your work.

--------
Note : the other invites are the other submitters and the faces may be on video.

Once again we are seeing fluff and nonsence, in order to support your weak business case, which has no merit.

Me ? Pay $500 because someone wants to work with me ?

No, that's not the way it works. That $500 is paid for from the production budget.

Ever sat in a prodution meeting ? Ever done a production budget ? Quite clearly not. They take hours, often with little achieved.

If your boys were gainfully employed, they would be doing what they love to do, and they wouldn't see the light of day, even to listen to one track of music.

They're clearly not producing music. That's because there is no money left in the cookie jar.

So, what do they do ? Sit and listen to Joe Bloggs and charge them $75 because they have tripped over the odd famous person from time to time.

The real people in the industry are working at their chosen profession. And they're working damn hard just to keep it afloat.

I'm now being laughed at, and called "bitter".

It's a very well known phycological tactic used by scam artists..... I'm sorry, dream merchants,.... to further line their pockets.

When I get invited into a project, it's just that. An invitation.

Do you think in your wildest dreams, that decision makers i.e. those with the deep pockets, are ever going to take a chance on some guy they don't know, from a 5 minute pitch ? ( which don't exist ) Perhaps you should watch more Seinfield re-runs.

Your boys are "opening up" ? What a load of rubbish. They are opening up their empty wallets, for the gullible to fill them.

Please offer you services. Just don't expect old and exhausted industry folks to agree with your tactics or your motives.

cheers, niteshift

PS - you may attack me all you wish. I'm over it.

Very rarely has anyone ever thanked me for going out of my way to extend a helping hand and for putting my reputation on the line for them because I thought they had the talent and ability to go somewhere. Actually, most the time, people take it and don't look back. So can I blame the professionals on blaze trak for putting a price tag on their time? Not one bit. Because at the end of the day, if they're not gonna get any gratitude from many of the people in this world who have the me me me attitude, why shouldn't they get something out of it? If I were in their shoes, knowing what I know, I'd put a price tag on my time too.

Well, for me in particular, this has been a real eye-opening thread. I paid attention to the principals making comments, and started to wonder: which ones have credibility? So, I went on Greg's site, listened to "Dating Game" and "Fly Away". you know something? They were both really good. I got commentss from Mike Caro, so I went and listened to his stuff. Was quite frankly blown away. Then I went on Niteshift's site. Listened to "Synthetic Salsa" and "You Do It Right". The latter in particular had a wonderful production (panning techniques I'd never heard before), gospel and synth mixed beautifully, absolutely delightful. A couple of these posters said they would listen to my stuff. After hearing their's, I had a moment of panic. These people are really talented. Still, I am proud of my own tunes, and am flattered that they will go listen.
So, here's my point, sort of. Niteshift thinks the Blazetrak concept sucks. Mike Caro & Greg disagree. They're all damn talented, way more than me.
I think that a shot -- five minutes -- at one of the proven, successful "professionals" on the site is entirely ethical. If it works, great. If not, at least you have been shot down by the best. And you even have a video to prove it.
Ott

Time for a writing session on skype w/ my co-writers in Australia, so peace!

Now all i can is that you are flat out ignorant and have no idea what you are even talking about at this point. I promise that you could only dream to sit in the meetings and sessions that I sit in and have sat in. If you want to learn more about me and the projects I have been involved with, feel free to check the credits of some of the biggest stars this planet has ever seen in the last 10 years...The Beyonce's and Usher's of the world...Last name is Harrison in case you were wondering.

If "My Boys" were gainfully employed???? That is the most laughable statement of this whole thread. "My Boys", meaning the clients and Pro's that accept submissions on Blazetrak won over 15 Grammys just 2 months ago including SONG and RECORD of the year. "My Boys" have made more $$ in music then some small countries have period. "My Boys" are executive producing songwriter shows for Bravo, "My Boys are on American Idol every week as EXPERT judges. "My Boys" are on celebrity apprentice on NBC right this moment, "My Boys" don't know the famous people, they ARE the famous people. Do some research before you say:

Paul Worley
Rodney Jerkins
Evan Bogart
Lashawn Daniels
Jeff Haddad
John Rich
Bryan Michael Cox
Chuck Harmony
Wally Wilson
Makeba RIddick
Rich Harrison
B.o.B
T.I.
Steve Rifkind
and about 350 others

are NOT gainfully employed, or NOT producing music, or NOT real people in the industry, or DONT have any money left. Man you sound silly.

There is no point in even trying to reason with you because you dont even have a clue about any of this or the people who are involved.

Good luck to you all and thanks for listening.

Take Care,

My bad.

Your crew are wonderful. They are the best in the business.

They are very famous people and highly talented.

I am silly and will go away now.

cheers, niteshift

Good idea.

What a whacky thread man Nite we love ya but is there alcohol or pills involved in your day somehow?
Whoa! are u alright?

Really one of my first questions here was why be so concerned or worried or worked up or anything over something you want no part of and will have nothing to do with? Does not even pertain to your work or goals in some peoples cases....

Peace
Mike

Don't know who Ron is. I haven't read more than a couple posts that mentioned something like hundreds of dollars to pay someone (perhaps an intern in reality) to listen to your music?

I only endorsed Taxi because I went out to California in person and spent time there investigating it with 100% open access to everything. (It was an offer made and I accepted and followed through). I then wrote an article about it (this was over a decade ago.. actually over a dozen years ago) and it was long after that they became JPF sponsors in case anyone questions how we do things. So I will not endorse anything like this because I know very little about them in particular. But I do know a lot about OTHER sites which have come and gone who charged ridiculous sums of money for famous (or in many cases has beens) to listen to their music. I do not endorse that business model because I've never to this point seen it done honestly. Does that mean that no one working with the long list of scam companies that came around before ever made a solid connection? Nope. I bet more than a handful did. But the odds are in lottery ticket range that any Joe or Jill could send something to such a site and have any benefit at all. Is Blazetrak different? I can't tell you that. But the business model is great for them and horrible for everyone else. I can't see the value in getting a critique (that supposedly comes from a famous connected person and not their errand boys and girls) for that kind of money when you can pay 20-30-40-50 dollars to get really deep critiques from a wide range of professionals with track records of helping developing artists and who you can email directly or call on the phone or see in person easily and regularly for that kind of money.

If someone wants to prove otherwise to me, I am always open to finding good people at good companies doing honest work with value to the customer (our members). I visited Derek Sivers at his home in the deep woods of upstate NY before he moved to Oregon to check him out. I got a similar insiders look at Disc Makers as well. I met face to face multiple times with BMI and ASCAP folks before we ever partnered with them and spent dozens of hours speaking with Ourstage before we got involved with them for 18 months. All have proven to be long term quality companies who treated our members great and in each case, AFTER we had checked them out and in most cases after we started working with them on some things, they also became JPF sponsors. That's how honest people endorse companies and create legit sponsorships in my book. I am batting 1000 so far over the past 15 years, never leading our folks astray.

So if they want to talk with me directly, I am easy to find. But they'll have to provide clear and present benefit and return on investment for me to endorse their model or them. An honest company would have no problem with that and would welcome and hope for it.

Brian

Greg,

I'll remind you that I spent a large amount of hours speaking with you and working hard to get your head out of the sand. You've acknowledged that many time here (I guess we could dig them up if you need to be reminded). When you started to do the common sense things we discussed, you started to find some success, in small but growing bites.

Now the company in question may be 100% legit or 100% scam, I have zero knowledge of them as people nor do I have reason to dig deeper because we have no business together. But you and I have had a relationship that spans more than a decade and I haven't ever led you down the wrong path. On the other hand, you've hooked up with some questionable people on occassion and gotten burned. No idea if this is the old Greg or new or a mix of both, but I do hope you're putting some of what we spoke about into mind when bringing a company here to present to our members who trust our site to give them the truth and to do all in our power to make sure they are not being led astray. I hope you've done all the due dilligence in this case before bring any company here, regardless of their model. Are you stating your reputation behind these folks? I put mine behind every company I bring forward. I take a methodical approach towards each to avoid smoke and mirrors or even what they can do for me personally until I as settled on who they are, what they bring to the table and if there's real value to the massive 50,000 members we have, plus the 10's of thousands of non members who come through these boards.

If you are serious about these folks and you want JPF to take them seriously, then you'll do the work needed to provide the due dilligence involved in checking folks out. You'll also put aside personal gain and look at the bigger picture. I get offerred thousands of dollars per month from companies frequently who I turn down even though we could do a lot of good with the money because those companies either don't pass the test or WORSE, consider themselves above due dilligence and skepticism. When I see that happen, all red flags possible are raised high into the sky for all to see.

If you've brought this company to our doorstep, I hope you've done the work already and I hope you're ready to do it again if you want me to get behind it. If you all disappear than I will have my answer.

Brian

Brian,

Ron Harrison is the brother of Rich Harrison (grammy award winner for the song "Crazy In Love" by Beyonce). He is one of the founders of Blaze Trak.

One of my good friends, Andrew Fromm, is on their advisory board and several relevant industry professionals are featured on their site right now accepting submissions for various opportunities. Everything BlazeTrak promises, they deliver on. I have seen this personally as I have used their service to find out for myself whether or not their promises are worth its grain in salt. It is. I sent submissions to Brian Richardson (manages hit rapper B.O.B) and Brian personally responded in a video response to me. He liked what he heard and he gave me his contact information and as a result of that, doors have been opened that otherwise were shut.

Now, I could have gone through other connections I have and had them talk to Brian Richardson on my behalf, but by using Blaze Trak's service, Brian Richardson knows who I am directly.

There are several other industry professionals on Blaze Trak and they work with various major mainstream artists in the industry. There are even writers/producers on Blaze Trak who have written/produced songs and worked with Justin Bieber (who is currently the biggest popstar in the world right now).

BlazeTrak offers access to the industry professionals. They're not selling dreams, they're not promising record deals, or anything that would offer up a red flag for a scam. I have spoken to all 3 of the founders on several occasions and have gotten to know them. They're stand up guys and easy to talk to. I am sure they would have absolutely no problem speaking with you and answering any questions you might have.

Would I stake my reputation on them? Based on my experiences with them and what I have seen first hand, yes. I would.

I didn't introduce them to JPF. They found JPF months ago. I found their original post at that time and I reached out to them to investigate what they were about because I was curious. They're offering a service and they deliver. If after 30 days the customer doesn't get what's promised to them, they give a full refund of the credits used back to the customer.

OPEN LETTER RESPONSE:

Dear Jim, Inquiring JPF Members and Potential Blazetrak Clients:

Blazetrak was founded in November of 2009 and has to date accepted thousands of submissions for more than 350 Blazetrak affiliated professional experts. In each case, the professional that receives a submission is chosen by name by the customer. There is a detailed bio, picture, and in most cases a video from the professional to identify who they are, their accomplishments in their field, as well as any current opportunities they may have available. Each submission request from our professionals is a detailed description of what they would like to receive, and what each customer will receive in return. Each submission is replied to with a video response (that must be streamed LIVE into our servers because of the technology we have in place) so there is no question who is reviewing each submission. There are a few cases where a video response will NOT be rendered because of the vast amount of submissions that may come in for a particular request, which would be a daunting task for our professionals to undertake, and could diminish the quality and messages of the video responses. In these cases it is SPECIFICALLY stated so, and that submissions may be viewed by representatives of the person. All of this is guaranteed to our customers to occur within 30 days of their submission date (unless another time frame is specifically stated due to schedules). If our obligation is not met, the customer will receive a full refund of the purchased credits used to make their submission. (Credits are the Blazetrak currency that we created for use on our site). If there is a technical error, or the person who was submitted to is not the person responding in the video, a refund is also offered. Our organization has lead to early success stories for several aspiring artists, musicians, songwriters, producers, etc., and a few have provided us with testimonial videos that can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/blazetrak#g/c/A1522629B2E850CD These stories are the driving force behind fulfilling our corporate mission of “Getting You Closer”. As a company, we pride ourselves on our corporate professionalism, industry expertise and the valued reputations of our affiliated partners. Further, we welcome the feedback we receive from our users daily.

An example of such is the open discussion on this Just Plain Folks General Message Forum. This message board is an open forum for public information sharing amongst JPF membership, for which our organization and our leadership is also apart. The discussion and feedback on the quality of services rendered by potential, current, or prior Blazetrak clients should be encouraged, whether positive or negative.

In response to the validity of our organization, we take this matter very seriously. At Blazetrak we understand that integrity is the premise of all business relationships. As such, we are very interested in responding to JPF founder Brian Whitney’s last post regarding the legitimacy of our organization both as members and as businessmen.

To start, be it duly noted that Blazetrak has never solicited Just Plain Folks, or any of its members, or employees, to provide endorsements whether paid or in-kind on behalf of our organization.

Furthermore, to date, our organization has not received an invitation from nor extended an invitation to Just Plain Folks or any of its affiliated employees to meet with our firm to discuss the operations of our organization, our value proposition, and the ways in which it may be of value or benefit to your membership.

We welcome this opportunity and, as members, the opportunity to publically hear more about the due diligence process your organization uses to evaluate organizations it is willing to endorse or partner with to support its mission of increasing opportunities for its membership. More specifically: your selection process, your evaluation criteria and rating metrics, and the scope of relationships (financial sponsor).

We gladly except the opportunity to respond, publically or privately where proprietary or confidential corporate information is not infringed upon or jeopardized.

We look forward to receiving your response to this public invitation and the subsequent findings.

Sincerely,

Ron Harrison
Partner/ Co-Founder
Blazetrak
www.blazetrak.com

Lastly, We are just 3 guys who bust our tails everyday trying to establish relationships with individuals, companies, leaders, and decisions makers who the general public can't, won't, or just doesn't know how to access. We do this so the public doesn't have too. We spend our money to fly across the country to meet with them so you don't have to...we negotiate with their attorneys so you don't have too. We spent 2 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars creating a platform to make it easier for you to reach them. We train them on how to use our platform. We do all the work and heavy lifting for you. All you have to do is supply the talent they are looking for.

Ron H.

Personal Note to Sub,

Unfortunatly, there are no mind altering substances in my body. Either legal or otherwise.

I'm just a wacko ! Actually, knocked out after a long week.

The reason I get annoyed at this kind of thing ? Because it's everywhere, and doesn't look like it's going to stop anytime soon. I'm just sick and tired of it. Just look at this thread, which started out "Blaze Track in the Wall St Journal". What rubbish.

It's just removed from reality.

Reality is all those people who work hard in this industry every day. Like you, they work their socks off.

But wait ! If you pay $75, you don't need to work hard, because a famous person will discover you. All will be well. And they will do it, because they are really really nice people.

It just makes me sick that someone on the bottom of the food chain who can't afford $75, will be suckered in to recieve a video critique which means absolutely nothing. And they've learned nothing to boot.

And it's wrapped up in the guise of a "service". This is not a service. A service is a mixdown, or laying a track, or promotion or marketing. Real things, with clear and tangible and measurable results. This kind of thing is just parasitic.

I'll resume my medication now.

I am silly and will go away.

cheers, niteshift

PS - This is a personal note to Sub. Please do not reply.

Nite,

1) I'm the idiot who titled this thread "Blazetrak in the Wallstreet Journal". Sorry if that annoyed you. After all, I'm the one who started this thread.

2) Nobody asked me to start this thread and nobody's paying me to do it either.

3) I'm not running promos or anything of the sort. I started the thread of my own free will.

So if you want to be pissed off at someone (God forbid), be pissed off at me. Blazetrak didn't ask me to talk about them here. I personally believe in what they're doing and I don't believe for a second that they're "parasitic" as you claim.

4) Personal notes are what private messages are for. If you weren't looking for responses, you would have responded to Sub privately, which you did not. Just an FYI.

No one begrudges you your hard work in everything you've done in your life. I know you don't think much of me at all, but nothing was handed to me either. I worked hard for everything I've built. I had to learn through the school of hard knocks a few times.

In this matter regarding Blaze Trak though, I think you're wrong and I am sticking to my opinion even if you do not agree with it.
Hate me, make fun of me, whatever. That's up to you.

Cheers

No worries Greg, we'll catch up for a beer one day.

cheers, niteshift

At the risk of repeating myself and going round in circles as Greg would suggest I will say this again. I have been in the music business for a very long time and have been exploited by promoters, agents and many other people who try to make a quick buck from dumb musicians. I know lots of other people in the music business who have similar tales of exploitation. The industry is full of creative minds who are ready to exploit any niche they find and part the unsuspecting public from their money. So the buyer beware and if it looks too good to be true it usually is principles are strongly ingrained in me. I have a rule that people pay me to hear my music not the other way around.
Now Kudos to Ron for being so up front and honest about his company and its objectives. It will remain to be seen whether his business model is worth investing in. I have no knowledge of him or his biz other than what has been said here or what I gleaned from an online search.
That said alarm bells do ring. I ask why top execs and successful producers would want to listen to and critique songs from people whose only qualification to submit is having the cash to pay for it. To me it sounds like a nice cash cow sideline earner.... nothing else. Now you know and I know that the vast majority of stuff submitted will be of the poorest quality and not worth the bother of listening to. If truth be told a complete waste of time and money of those who submit this material and waste of time for those who have to provide a critique if it was not for them being paid to do so. Now you know as well that a fee for submission will not deter the hopeless wannabes if anything it will be a nice carrot a guarantee that their stuff will be heard by some famous person who could make THEM famous. To illustrate my point AI has many thousands of delusional people queuing in all weather for an audition. Most are completely tone deaf and have never even sung in public. But they take a chance. At lesast that audition is free but if there was a charge they would still pay(surprised Cowell has not thought of that angle to exploit even more money from sad folk)
So logically what is the motive for these top pros to listen to thousands of submissions which will never make dollar one...MONEY...nothing else.
I am of the opinion that great talent is easy to find...so if these guys genuinely want to find new talent to promote etc..they can find it...without the hopefuls and hapless having to pay for an audience.
I wonder how much unsolicited stuff is reviewed or even listened to.
So all that said on the face of it I think that this method of working and this business model is unethical.
If I approach anyone to ask for work or for an audition I would expect a simple yes or no or free audition. If a person says yes you can audition but you have to pay me £500 for the pleasure. I would tell them where to get off. They have no interest in anything other than making money.....and even they were interested in me and a contract at the end of the audition is this the sort of person anybody would want to do biz with.

Ah just checking the thread and personal messages before I force myself to go to sleep. During bouncing off this thread I have been editing,scrubbing & mixing for the last 8 hours on this one tune. Mixing is crazy for me, analog with very little automation.

I certainly don't mean to pick on you my friend but your typing behaviour is troublesome and worrying to me. I just can't follow your thinking at all

Just a few quotes...
The reason I get annoyed at this kind of thing ? Because it's everywhere, and doesn't look like it's going to stop anytime soon.

What bro? it's not terrorism. I don't see this kind of offer anywhere actually, that looks half for real. Very few places I know of do anything like this. I wish there were more. How is it hurting you? or Taking your money?

But wait ! If you pay $75, you don't need to work hard, because a famous person will discover you. All will be well. And they will do it, because they are really really nice people.

This makes no sense bro, if you pay $75 you don't need to work hard??? You need to be a lot more clearer man And that comment saying "Contacts are nothing" or something like that. It's scary talk, and not because it's true. Because if your straight and not drunk then it's scary. If it wasn't you, I don't think i would be up trying to relax you.

It just makes me sick that someone on the bottom of the food chain who can't afford $75, will be suckered in to receive a video critique which means absolutely nothing. And they've learned nothing to boot.

Ah, now there's something. Unless it's you that are you worried about not somebody's, some strangers $75 bucks? What if that same person your worried about drinks that $75 smokes it or snorts it.

Stop thinking, stop talking then apologizing and just read some of what it actually offers and what has been said. Them let it go from our mind dismiss it like it never existed and relax.

Read!
WHAT video critique? It's a SUBMISSION. They do not do what paid critiquers are doing. Listening with NO HOPE or mention of using your song...

Do you need an inside story to make it all seem real? I'll make one up using my common sense, (It's all I have) It's pretty easy to figure out. Be right back with it.

I'm not defending Blaztrak, really no need to they haven't done anything or said anything to be defended for... I don't know these guys from Atom but YOU guys are making it very hard to defend you. lol Save face and walk away from it.

You's are like lunatics, what the heck is going over there?

Sorry Mike, in this case Nite is making more sense than you.

I think (i think - since I can't really know) that what Jim and Nite are saying is that: It doesn't matter how honest BlazeTrak is, the business model itself is going to take money from folks that are just not ready to submit. It's not BlazeTrak's fault, it's a buyer's beware world.

It seems to be mostly aimed at the young rap/hip-hop/pop wannabes and if you know anything about local scenes, there are hundreds, thousands, 10's of thousands of kids with multiple CD's/mixes of their rap stuff (with tons of sampling) that will be the next big thing -- if someone can hear it (dang -- just go to soundclick). These folks have no "realistic" chance -- it is just a lottery ticket purchase.

Kevin

People pay to hear you IN A BAR, and only sometimes if there's a cover charge.
NOBODY pays you for your songs until you give them a reason to, that reason is the dream you's are peeing all over here lol
$75 on strings. If you make music for real you SPEND MONEY FOREVER!! Hopefully you get some from it to spend....

But anyway here's an imaginary story so we can go to sleep and have nice dreams

Jim wonders WHY? how can this be... yes I thought about it too
and here is what my mind imagined as a possibility using all I have , Common Sense....

1- Who cares what there reasons are, and if there reasons are to make money then WHO doesn't want excuse me NEED to do that?
What goes on behind the scenes is of no concern to me as long as I'm getting a fair shake.

2- Fact - Rodney Dark Child produces and works with Lady Gaga
Fact - He responds to submissions through Blazetrak
He even endorses them... Why?

3. Well lets think maybe Ron's brother Rich who did "Crazy In Love" great pop tune by the way I think her best and most creditable one... works with Beyonce he works at the same level of the business with Rodney, maybe they even know each other. Hmmm!

I would think he has friends in the business No?? Now he starts his own company an idea he and his brother had. Why? to make money? No! why start a business to do that? Geez I hope so?
To find material to make more money? Geez I hope so again..
How do you make REAL money with songs? A- You are the writer or artist B- You find the writer or artist...

Okay so now some friends get involved. When your in the industry your friends often are too. Making sense?

And just maybe these guys had to struggle and work hard to get there. And thought of a way to help others who might deserve a shot, a chance. So it's like a really unique cool thing to do
and we ALL have to make money so what? Who works 100% for free except for maybe Brian

Why would well known Producers like Teddy Riley who i have always had respect for go out there and put there rep on the line
to scam? I mean the way word travels around from hand to hand on the internet and twitter and all, nobody wants to be caught up in BS.
So let me me find out if I don't like Teddy any more lol you guys don't worry about it. lol

I'm a lifetime New Yorker and 100% Italian NOBODY nowhere on the planet fools me. And if there not from the planet they better not come equipt with eyes or a tongue. How do you spell equipt?

Relax guys, no harm has been done... Expect for maybe chasing professionals away.

Hey Sub,

Kevin pretty much summed up my viewpoint. Thanks Kevin, perhaps I am half sane, rather than half crazy. Who knows ?

Jim asserts that this unethical. I happen to agree.

The target clientel for Blaze Track is mainly rap, R&B and beat makers. Most of the target group, I'd put in the 14 -24 yr old age bracket. They're kids with dreams and little resources.

And who is taking their money ? Grammy award winners worth millions, supposodly. Is this what successful people do ? I thought that those that caught a break, pass it along to the up and coming from the next generation. They seek out talent, not charge them $75 to listen to their music, 99.99% of which, won't make the grade.

cheers, niteshift

Sorry Kev, no way! Not a chance.. he's not making any sense at all, I'm actually worried about him. Drunk people talk like that It's totally destruction mode!

And yeah so the industry is full of kids who were rapping on the street two weeks ago... So should they have packed it in as well?

How does that make any sense? If somebody SEE"S and hears what a producer is doing in a studio with Gaga then goes into there bedroom picks up there Roland MPC and starts creating beats and gets DAMN good at it. Doing the same thing,, maybe at the same level or better...
Then he contacts the guys, HE CAN DO THAT? WHAT? and takes a chance the guy will see himself in the young upstart.. Or maybe he'll see dollar signs. Boy there's aloy WORSE that kid could be doing with $75 bucks man.

I mean really, AGAIN and AGAIN why keep obsessing over something you's want no part of, and can not relate to in any regard. Why isn't Joice Marie here tearing into Blazetrak and all this. Cause she know it's got nothing to do with her and she not gonna waste time and make herself look like a amateur in the process.
I like to use Joice's name she's a sweetie and never gets mad at me.

You would NOT believe how your attitude makes you look to others.. not you Kev anybody's...
I nave been around both pro's and amateurs my whole life and even in the same day.
I have spent time with professional people with things on the go. They are usually postive all the time accept for kidding around.

I recognize it easily.. They talk and sound like Greg does and Jody does. The way Donna did when she came on here. It starts with not being a hater... a downer. At least don't make everybody think you are..

Why go through all this explaining over and over...
Well hopefully the peekers will read it and get something positive from it maybe. it's 7:am where I am so I gotta get some sleep.

It's all good, but really if you want no part of this I'd say leave it alone. We'll let you know how it went

Peace

Mike,

I don't think BlazeTrak is a scam -- in fact, I think it is a pretty cool idea. Ron asked the question would I go to nashville and meet with Paul Worley for 5 minutes -- and I said yes. Now why wouldn't I spend $132 for the same opportunity through BlazeTrak?

Mainly, if I had a face to face meeting with Paul, it would be because I had been "vetted" in advance. Through contacts, someone else would have put their professional opinion on the line to get me that appointment. So, if I had the real stuff, I would have a so-so chance of moving forward via that meeting (ha, ha). (plus I could do a lot of other things while I was in nashville).

If I had phenomenal stuff, BlazeTrak might work for me -- but considering that most songs are artist/producer/team written, my chances would seem to be as big as getting hit by lightening. Of course, going out in a thunderstorm and holding up a metal rod would increase my chances.

So I don't think BlazeTrak is a scam, but no one should get indignant or call us fools or haters for questioning the business model. The name calling is beneath you.

Kevin

EDIT: Plus this whole thread started out as Gregory saying "Look, BlazeTrak is in the Wall Street Journal -- how's that for credibility?" ... and then come to find out it was a press release on a web site. It was a mistake by Gregory and shouldn't reflect badly on BlazeTrak -- but it was a misrepresentation, nonetheless.

But if you don't think I should post in threads like this, because it makes me look bad or look like a hater, then maybe I won't anymore.

Kev not only am I exhausted I'm dizzy in this chair. I'm going around the clock here at 7:16 am. So please try no to take offense. Those other guys have the thickest skin i have ever encountered so i'm not worried about Jim or Nite. Well Nite does concern me..

Oh man,... Listen Paul Worley or nobody he knows will EVER invite you to fly down and sit with your music.. EVER! Because you/WE have NO CHANCE of reaching him.... That's the whole point.
Now your chances are impossible, so you submit to him through Blazetrak now your a one in million shot.

How good you are or hard you work and what you invest in yourself takes those odds DOWN...
What's there to discuss... Try it or don't try it.

Sorry for the rudeness, If I could shake him physically I'd do that instead...

Man I cant even type....

Not YOU Kev, the other guys. Isn't that obvious? I just talk in "You's and I's and We's ...your not that. You do not down everything to do with success today. And you did not give the visitor on this thread the amateur impression.

What If Ron said Paul W look at this link for a minute on this site...
Guess what he would think? You'd be alright Kev Hey maybe you could still get that invite....

EDIT!!
Nobody called you a fool, and they weren't questioning they were attacking and insulting. And I wouldn't blame the guy for never coming back... Even if this is the way of the internet talk in general we ain't kids and we aren't supposed react that way imo I think we are better than that. And especially when one of our own posts the thread, for whatever reason.

GOODNIGHT!!!

Hey Sub,

I thought we were talking about the ethics of a business model. Obviously not.

I am silly and will go away.

cheers, niteshift the amateur

Well there Ethics have been fine so far no problem at all. Ours on the other hand looked like 12 year old girls on Facebook or an episode of Jersey Shore

I must leave now, stay silly and stay away!! this time LOL

PS - dont worry about the evil company coming here to take us.. Brian took care of it like usual. And anything that should worry us here he's got the head for it totally. Read those two threads of his and Ron's response.

All is well good NITE!

Sub
"Oh man,... Listen Paul Worley or nobody he knows will EVER invite you to fly down and sit with your music.. EVER! Because you/WE have NO CHANCE of reaching him.... That's the whole point.
Now your chances are impossible, so you submit to him through Blazetrak now your a one in million shot."

So if these guys would NEVER ask for submiisons EVER from people they did not know....then why oh why are they accepting them from people just because they have a few hundred bucks to tip them?......They want the money and to hell with the submission. They will put in their two cents crit and say thanks but no thanks.
Mike GET REAL I am sorry to say this but you are being taken in with this hype and chance for recognition dream...if I only spend a few bucks i WILL BE GUARANTEED to be heard by a top exec they will think my music is top drawer and I will be made. How can it fail.


As Nite says it would be far more ethical if these guys accepted submmisions for free from people who have been vetted as having potential. Blazetrak could vet these people first and send the succesful ones on to these execs then take a payment/commission from earnings they receive as a result of a succesful audition/submission. They put something back and do not waste time sifting through crap meanwhile Blazetrak operates ethically and still makes money.
More important the poor sucker wananbes do not have to part with any cash upfront.

Boy you guys,

You guys are on page 4.

Lots of good point on both sides.

it will be up to the individual songwriter to choose what is right for them.

Waiting to see what the results come from those using this company, JPF members. That will be interesting, don't you agree.

Petra

Sorry Big Jim. As much as I've come to like you, and as much as I respect your history, you miss the point here. So does Nite.


As you yourself have stated, the industry made and makes all kinds of money off the talent...and the unscrupulous make lots of it. Think of Fogerty and CCR, for example.


And think of how records were funded. The "industry" basically lent the money to the talent, who, if there was cash flow from their records, paid for every last cent of the production, distribution, publicity etc., and often started record #2 "in the red" even if record #1 was a smash hit. So much for thinking the talent should get "a free lunch"


Great deal for the industry. They made lots of money legitimately using one sided contracts, and more through creative accounting whereby the talent also absorbed industry overheads. Then again, they also lost lots of money on acts that made it nowhere...despite paying out lots of money to try and make it happen.


So even if the studios paid for flights in, demos etc, you can bet your bottom dollar it eventually came out of the pockets of the talent. The difference is that those who made no money were released from their labels, and those of lesser talent yet were exploited by the sharks...and EVERYTHING PLUS INDUSTRY PROFITS came out of the successful acts. Yes, the successful acts paid for the cost of failure, speculation etc.


What is happening here with BT is no promise or guaranty for success, just the chance to be heard by industry professionals. Full stop. End of story.


It is a well defined "value proposition" that makes no promise other than you will be heard and will receive feedback from an industry professional who is not working on behalf of some record company, but entirely for themselves when they contract with you and BT. You are paying for their time because no one else is when they listen to your stuff. So there is no chance to "put in on the books" and recoup it later with interest and overheads from the talent.


But IF you happen to give them something they like and can use, well that's the sound of another door opening. And cheaply done in my books.


Under the old model, this meeting you were invited to would have cost you everybody's time, all variable costs including travel, the noshing meals and drinks etc...plus interest while these costs were on the record company's books. AND because this was done via a signed contract, all was fine....that is if you signed. If you did not, well, they wrote off the cost against their profits from successful, acts and they still made money...but chances are if you got the meeting they were interested.


If you could have gotten the meeting without an invitation, it would have come out of your pocket right away. Either way you paid.


But the world and industry has changed, and all kinds of things are now possible via the net. I applaud the innovation, and I find that NOT charging or paying for legitimate services from credible people unethical.

I don't understand this thread at all. I have seen this before and it always gives me the same feeling.
A few years ago I went after a company who came here with an offer. I can't even remember the name. A couple other folks joined in as well. As it turned out the company was legit but the damage was done. They left and never came back. I decided then I would never do that again.

Over the years I have watched the members here spend Thousands of dollars on demos and other music related endeavors which they thought would lead them to the success they crave. They pay for critiques and travel to Nashville and attend workshops and meet the "People" who will help them in their career. They belong to NSAI, TAXI, BMI, ASCAP, And any number of other organizations that they believe will help further their career. They Order CD's and put their music on the internet in the belief someone will listen to it and make them famous. Most of the CD's will become coasters.

I have too, and you know what? It's all the same bullshit.
I have listened to criques from amatuers and professionals and they always say the same things. Including the "Professionals" endorsed here.
I have heard the list of overused rhymes we are not supposed to use recited by everyone I have talked to including the ones I paid. And the ones endorsed here.
You know what? Without fail every one of them has then played me a song they wrote that has one of those overused rhymes I am not supposed to use. EVERY ONE.

Just about everyone here says they don't listen to the radio because the music sucks.
Well guess what? If you want to hear your song on the radio you better learn how to write songs that suck just like the songs you hear on the radio. If you want success you will have to do music that sells. Yet I see the same people who whine about the crap on the radio making the same music they have been making for years that will never see the light of day.
Then a company comes along that might, and I say might, be able to lead you in the right direction and they are always attacked.

I don't pay for critiques anymmore. I don't pay to belong to any organization anymore. Why? Because I have figured out that I will never be able to create music like I hear on the radio and that is the only kind of music that sells MILLIONS of downloads or even thousands for that matter.

Everyone is laughing at Rebecca Black. Well guess what? It has over 100 million views on youtube. You can say it only has those views because it was terrible but people are also buying it on I-tunes. SOMEONE likes it enough to pay for it. When is the last time anyone on this site sold 10,000 downloads?
Everyone says the company that made the video is a scam. Well I really doubt Rebecca Black thinks it's a scam.

IT IS ALL A SCAM. If you spend your money on music in the hope that you will ever get a song on the radio it is a SCAM. You have no better chance than winning the Lottery.
But you know what? If you don't spend money on it it is the same as not buying a lottery ticket. You have NO CHANCE.
Does anyone believe the lottery exists to make you rich?

In the end I'd say everyone here has spent money on their music in one way or another and you know what? If it hasn't brought you success it was a scam. It separated you from your money and you did it in the belief you would be the next big thing in music.

If you think Blazetrak is a scam don't use it. But don't belittle it for charging money to do the same things you have all been spending money on for years.

Ron Harrison, First, I tip my hat to your promotional instincts. You couldn't pay for the kind of publicity you've gotten from this long and weird thread on JPF. And you've already picked up new clients from it.

I've already said before I see nothing unethical about your business model. It's another way of making a buck in the entertainment world. People throw money at their dreams everyday. Look at the business state lotteries do. And music demo services. Caveat emptor.

But I've got one question. When you offer a guarantee that a customer will get a video response within 30 days are you offering to return CREDITS or their money back??

That's something your new customers might want to be clear about before they part with their hard-earned cash.