Blaze Trak is a legit source for those who don't have the industry access some people are fortunate to have. If you're not ready, don't do it, but if you are, you'd be doing yourself a disservice by not. Yeah, it costs a little bit of money to buy BT credits, but I've gone out on a limb and even with the connections I do have, I tried it out to see how the end result would be.

Lets just say, my team made a good impression with those we submitted to.

Anyway, this press release through a Wall Street Journal affiliate should show you what's possible through Blaze Trak. If you didn't believe me before, you should believe me now.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/on...oup-launches-via-blazetrakcom-2011-03-29

Brian,

I would love to see you reach out to Ron Harrison and see how JPF and Blaze Trak can benefit each other.

For everyone else, I recommend checking it out.

G

thanks for the progress update Greg

anything that actually works is most welcome in the puzzle palace that is the modern music business.......appreciate you sharing your success story with them.........

Tom

Gregory, Not to rain on your parade, but that's NOT a Wall Street Journal news story or any kind of an endorsement. It's a press release from Blazetrack. An advertisement for the company.

Oh crap. Thanks Dan. I probably included the wrong link. Let me go look for it again. haha

That's what I get for copy and pasting without looking.

Uh actually, when you click the link, look at the top left hand corner (market watch is an affiliate of the WSJ). So yeah. There you have it. Attention to detail.

Gregory, Maybe I've got you confused. I'm not saying it's not published on the Wall Street Journal's website or a site affiliated with the WSJ. I'm saying it's NOT a news story, or news item. It wasn't written by WSJ or anyone affiliated with WSJ. It's clearly labeled a "press release." A press release is not any kind of objective news story. It's an organization or a company promoting itself or its views. That's why I said it's an advertisement.

Oh well yeah. It is a press release, but that doesn't make what is being said in it any less true. Let me "edit" my prior post and re-iterate that it's a press release and not an article.

Anyway, I wasn't looking to debate on the dynamics of what a press release or an article is. The attention I wanted to bring was to the content itself.

Gregory, I wasn't arguing with your endorsement of BT. But as an old journalist, I think its important not to pass off a company press release as if it's an objective news story or editorial from a reputable news gathering organization.

You seem sold on the company. That's fine by me. Good luck working with them.

Yeah Dan. I'm glad you caught that so I can make the necessary correction in my post. I don't want to mis-represent anyone. :-) What publication did you work as a journalist for?

Greg, I was an editor of a local union publication called "The Union Flash." Out of Kalamazoo, MI. I was a jack-of-all trades, reporter, features, editorials and photographer. It was kind of a one-man operation.

Some of the stuff I wrote in my union days is still online. Here's a sample of convention reporting I did, if you're interested. Pretty straight-forward reporting.

http://www.lunewsviews.com/apwu/convention02.htm

That's pretty cool you were able to make a living as a writer/editor. Cool stuff dude.

Sorry, this thing got distracted from your endorsement of BK. Back to your promo now.

Great job, Greg!!

I'll bet you made a wonderful impression. You & your team write some very cool, very marketable and current material.

Linda

Don't do it Brian!

Is this thread some kind of satire?

Dan

No, Dan, it isn't - this is a real and legit company out there doing great things for artists.

Linda

Why do I even waste my breath?

"For one Blazetrack credit, Robin (or one of her "representatives") will review . . . but wait! there's more . . . for 12 Blazetrack credits, Robin will . . . (do what?) Yeah, Greg, in this instance, you are most certainly "wasting your breath".
Ott
p.s What's a "Blazetrack credit"?

To satisfy your objective curiousity, Ott, here you go.

1 Credit = $15.00
3 Credits = $37.50
6 Credits = $72.00
8 Credits = $92.00
12 Credits = $132.00
24 Credits = $250.00
50 Credits = $475.00
100 Credits = $900.00
150 Credits = $1275.00

Credits are purchased when you submit your track to the professional of your choice. The professionals themselves set their rates, not Blazetrak.

A further article about Blazetrak.
http://newyorkbuzz.org/2009/11/19/b...-get-video-feedback-from-a-professional/

Thanks very much for the heads-up on this one, Greg.

I've signed up, and plan to submit a song to one of the professionals who places music in film/tv. I think the 6 credits will be well worth having the comprehensive feedback on video.

There's also an interesting selection of videos on YouTube from people who've made connections through Blazetrack. Here are three of them.

http://www.youtube.com/blazetrak#p/c/A1522629B2E850CD/13/572pspbLEDE

http://www.youtube.com/blazetrak#p/c/A1522629B2E850CD/3/kGbPNJJ5K6A

http://www.youtube.com/blazetrak#p/c/A1522629B2E850CD/4/WFMETsZKw74

Donna

Ott,

If it's not for you, it's not for you. Continue doing whatever it is that you're doing.

Donna,

Thank you and you're welcome. I especially appreciate the additional links you've provided!

Good luck with your submissions. I look forward to hearing how it turns out.

Seems easy money just for listening to some tracks or looking at videos especially if you can delegate the task to a "representative". So now they will accept unsolicited material....from any source..... as long as you pay them......MMMM Mixed feelings on this.... the whole thing seems unethical....even fishy. I wonder what percentage of submissions gets anywhere via them.
I get a feeling of deja vu with this Blazetrak....was it not discussed a while back and a lot of JPFs had similar reservations.
But hey Greg and Donna if it works for you go for it.

Big Jim, it was only that one instance that mention of "representative" was made, and it had to with dancing auditions, not music. The submissions aren't delegated to anyone else. The professional who's selected responds via a video, so you can see exactly who it is.

To my knowledge, Blazetrak hadn't been discussed prior to Greg's posting the info here. I don't throw my money away lightly, but I've been impressed by the videos from the people (from around the globe) who've had dealings with the organisation and have in fact made "connections". Check out the links I posted. The site itself is also informative and transparent.

Frankly, I'm glad to have the opportunity to get feedback on at least one of my more theatrical pieces, which aren't really suitable to submit for 'normal' critiques. My only problem now is deciding which of my many show-type songs to send.

I'm curious though as to why you'd consider Blazetrak unethical.

Anyway, once I've done the deed, I'll let you all know how it goes. If it turns out to be dodgy, I'll only be out a few euros and no harm done. If it turns out to be useful, well so much the better.

Donna

So Jim,

Would it be "unethical" for a person to book a flight to (Nashville, Los Angeles, New York) in the hopes of "maybe" getting an appointment with a music professional in person? Would it also be "unethical" for a person to book hotel, transportation, food, or any other expense while that person is out on that trip HOPING to get someone to give them the time of day to let them explain WHY THEY are the next big thing as opposed to anyone else?

Paying for guaranteed exposure through Blazetrak costs A LOT LESS than that. Oh, did I forget to mention GUARANTEED EXPOSURE? Going on a trip to a music city doesn't mean you're gonna meet anyone worthwhile.

I bet you neglected to think about that. But then again, maybe BLAZETRAK isn't for you, and that's okay. It's not for everyone.

It's for those who are willing to invest in themselves IF they believe in themselves enough to do it. It's not for the hobbyist or fly by night get richer's. There's a fee attached to getting video responses from these professionals (not because they need the money, because I can assure you, they don't), but because it weeds out the serious from the casuals.

Do you think it's unethical for Universities to charge people to apply to their colleges in the hopes that those people get accepted into those Universities? It's kind of like that.

In the world of economics, there's a rule that applies, "Ain't no such thing as a free lunch." Do you really think everyone's time is free and that these professionals are obligated to give you the time of day, FREE OF CHARGE? IF they like you and they think you've got what it takes to have a profitable partnership with them, you're gonna make your money back and then some. IF they think you need room for improvement, then they'll offer you advice in where that improvement is needed. Doesn't TAXI do that (for a cost)?

I think before you totally dismiss something as "fishy", you might want to reconsider your position.

NOT EVERYBODY IS A SCAM ARTIST!!! (And if I remotely even thought what they were doing was a scam, there's no way in hell I would endorse it to anyone).

Anyway, that's my two cents. Take it or leave it. I have no control over what you choose to do and it doesn't affect me either way, but I do hope you become a little open minded about things in the future because there really are good people out there who want to change how things are done.

And yes, Blazetrak was talked about months ago when they were first starting out. They've GROWN a lot since that time. I've introduced them to a couple of the people who are now featured professionals on Blazetrak. One of which is Larry Live (A&R for Timbaland productions & childhood friend of Timbaland). If you don't know who Timbaland is, I suggest you google his name.

I've used Blazetrak for things as well. Everything they promise, I got. It's worked in my favor. No scam or rip off there. I'm speaking of PERSONAL experience, so yeah.

I vouch for them because they deliver what they say they will deliver (even if it's a refund after 30 days).

If you have questions about them, contact their customer service and challenge them if you want or contact one of the founders and ask them whatever concerns you might have.

If it's not for you, it's not for you, but I think it's pretty crappy for a person to dismiss them as "unethical" or "fishy" without actually backing up the claim.

I am just saying that to my mind paying someone to listen to your stuff seems pretty crappy and fishy and unethical but HEY if it works for you and others and you think it valuable then great go for it. JMO....and probably a lot of others.

I agree Jim! There are plenty of listeners and critics right here.

I wonder about the underlying objective of a songwriter using such a service. Or the subtle implications attached to the advertising of these services. I have a feeling the songwriter is thinking more in terms of the reviewer's credentials and what the reviewer can do beyond critiquing for them (unrealistic expectations).

I would be surprised if these services render anymore than a generic critique.

John

Greg, Don't get so worked up, dude. Just because you're running promos for Blazetrak doesn't automatically give the business the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval, and Big Jim is right to snort and be skeptical about it.

It sounds like a business exploiting people's dreams - mainly aimed at the young fellas and gals like yourself. You're paying for "access" to "important" people in the music industry for a fee. They'll give you an opinion and advice on your submission. I understand most of the big shots charge between $100-200 to listen to whatever you want to send. In return, you get a brief video response.

You can get an opinion and advice on your music on JPF for nothing if you're looking for validation.

Mostly, Blazetrak is about making the founders of the company rich and providing another small revenue stream to the "bigshots" offering advice and critiques to those willing to pay for advice.

How long has this outfit been around? Two or three years? Give me the name of someone who hit the jackpot after paying one of these "bigshots" for an opinion.

Until then, young folks trying to make it should concentrate on their music and networking in the music industry and playing gigs.

And always remember that a fool and his money are easily separated.

As I said, it's not for everyone. Those who are interested, will use it. Those who aren't, won't. Blazetrak is an avenue for those who don't have the desire, knowledge, and/or ability to network and develop relationships with people in whatever field of profession they're looking to break into.

I have access to a lot of people and I've done it because I am lucky enough to be around the right people, but not everyone is able to be in those kind of shoes.

By the way Dan, I'm no fool and my money is not easily parted from me. I don't think Donna, Linda, or anyone else who have spent money on Blazetrak are fools either.

I agree with you though. Skepticism is healthy and I begrudge no one who utilizes it, however, I do have a problem with people who make blind accusations without substance.

Dan, you said you “understand that most of the big shots charge between $100-$200”. If you'd read the list I provided 11 posts above, you’d have noted that credits range from $30.
The professional I’ve chosen to contact charges $72.
Thus, it’s misleading to imply that charges range from $100 to $200.
As an ex-reporter, you know the importance of getting the facts right.
Likewise, stating that Greg is “running promos for Blazetrak” is a misleading statement.

Do you know for certain that the video is brief? Have you read or heard that anywhere? How short – or long – is brief?

I only know that others have reported they found the videos comprehensive, detailed, and very useful. I intend to find out firsthand. As an ex-journo myself, I look on it as research.

I’m neither young nor aspiring. And I like to think I’m not foolish. I am, however, curious about what contact with a Blazetrak professional might involve. I have no qualms about spending $72 (or 50 euros, so for me, it’s cheap at that price) to be able to present something to someone who actually might have a clue about what I may – or may not – be able to do with a particular genre that’s outside the normal critiquing range.

It’s funny about attitudes. On the basis that I now know a little about the organisation (after spending some time studying the site carefully), if I knew of anyone who was going to ‘give it a go’, I’d be encouraging and hopeful for them, and eager to know what the result might be. As a realistic person, I know a healthy scepticism is absolutely in order for all things. However, I’m often astonished by how quickly people with no knowledge whatsoever about a particular thing are so quick to disparage.

John, I hope to be able to tell you whether the critique is generic or not.
If it is, I’ll have lost 50 euros. It would only be a one-off, so I could live with that. But at least I’ll have checked to see for myself what BT is all about.

Stay tuned to this channel, folks.

Donna

I am just doubtful about the value of a paid critique in the first place. Are they seriously going to tell us something we do not already know? Most of us know a good song from a bad song and if we are honest know exactly how good our song is and where it ranks against others. Most of us scratch our head when a bummer of a song gets undue notice or becomes a hit and when a great song goes unnoticed we ask why. So what mind boggling shaft of light are these so-called high flyer experts going to add to the mix? Your song is too different in style to what is a hit these days...... or your song is too similar too what is in fashion these days and we want something a bit different..... or simply don't give up the day job as we have the market sewn up and do not want outsiders competing with us..... so thanks for your money but no thanks for the song.
I think there is something very seedy about people asking to get paid for giving comments on a song and something a bit creepy about folk paying to hear what these moneygrabbers think. I think it a tad delusional to think that a comment from one of these people is going to make any difference to us or make us better writers or get a song placed or make any money from it.
Better to save your money, write better songs build up a fan base and get noticed so the suits have to notice you.
Just my 2 cents......but some folk genuinely think they are the best songwriter in the world and have written the next "My Way" so all logic and rational thinking goes out the window along with their cash.

DonnaMarilyn, Good luck with Blazetrak. I hope you have a good experience with them and that you feel like it was money well-spent.

Most of what I wrote was just my opinion. But here's the source where I got the only facts I used: the $100-200 fee that most of the big shots charge and the statement that you get a short video in return for the fee you pay.

http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2009/12/would-you-pay-for-access-blazetrak-hopes-so.html

It really isn't any of my business who uses or doesn't use Blazetrak.

Gotta love the business model here. Let's say you pay $100 for Mr. or Ms.Important to listen to your stuff. They do a five minute listen, and get in front of a webcam to give you a ten minute response. Which, as far as I can tell, gurantees you absolutely nothing. Say they do this for eight hours each day. That's $400 an hour, $ 3,200 a day, or (taking 2 weeks off each year), $160,000 per year. Just to send you a video critiqing your attempts. If they charge $200 an hour, double the above numbers. Since I'm describing a full-time job, when do they find the time to promote your stuff?
Will say I enjoyed their little video, with their logo emblazoned on the tee shirt of a well-endowed young lady. I'll agree with Greg. "This is not for me".
Ott

Reading Blazetrack's press release,they are also into Fashion,Sports,Fitness,and MUSIC,amongst numerous other subjects..a little bit of "jack of all trades ...master of none"..Look,it is just another angle to "turn a buck",plying on folks hopes, dreams, and aspirations.The "Genie is out the bottle" in the music biz,A video respone from a "name" big deal!..tell you what bro,for another $300,i will do this or do that,that will prob be the follow up line,we all seem to be forgetting the "GOLDEN RULE"in Songwriting,never pay anyone to listen to your music...no one!...if it is good enough...they will PAY YOU...There are no short cuts in this songwriting business,no quick fix,and no overnight success,it is a craft ,and you hone it and learn it,and if you want to spend some cash,spend it on recording your material,or spend it on a website,don't spend it on someone who is gonna give you a wink and a nod on some video,&say well done,and in the next breath shout....NEXT!...As usual these people work on the old tried and trusted percentage game,if you go out with 20 scrubbing brushes,and chap on 50 doors,you are bound to sell 1 or 2,this works on the same principle,only difference being,they are putting a name to the scrubbing brush.Cheers...Terry...

My general approach to things is to have no expectations one way or the other.
This keeps my blood pressure healthy.

I also prefer to go to the source for the facts/answers.

Because - and for the first time - I'm simply curious about a particular business model (in this case Blazetrak), I'm willing to risk 50 euros to do the research. Thus, in the same spirit of sharing that Greg displayed in his first post, I'll report back to y'all after testing the waters.

Donna

Oh Dear, another pay to play scam. But the problem is, you don't even get to play, you just get a nice message from a "famous" person in return. Can you pay to go to a "really hip and swaggering" parties too ? As buying your way onto a guest list would be considered the bottom of the barrel, so is "please listen to my music, and I'll pay you to do so".

Ever had a job interview ? Did you ever pay the interviewer to interview you ? That's how moronic this kind of nonsense is.

And don't get me started on the bit about the Wall Street Journal. The origional piece is a press rease. It's advertising and nothing more. To say it's journalism, and would even be allowed into the basement of the Wall Street Journal, is misleading at best, fraudulent at worst.

cheers, niteshift

Other threads months ago that were actually about what Blazetrak does and is and the guy Ron was there to ask anything we wanted to know and nobody bothered with it. Now? lol

I joined and made one submission... Why?
I'll tell you then I'll tell you what happened....

1. Well it cost nothing to join, other things I've joined cost me four hundred plus dollars.

2. WHERE else are you sending your music? I know your not supposed to pay others, but others AIN'T ever paying you. Getting solicitation and the open door to submit to the MAJORS is really really really hard. And don't think people don't still pay to get places.

3. Again where? Where & who can you send your songs to?
Like Taxi and other places you have try somethings sometimes to see how it works and if it works for you. It's not a contract at worst it's a one time gamble. Ever gamble $50 bucks?

4. The video response is a guarantee your song was heard, most places you send things don't guarantee anything.

5. I'm good enough, not because I'm special,screw me.. but because I've worked myself dead. If you pick the right person or project to submit to and your stuff is ready then I wanna see who's gonna tell me I'm not. All they can say is it's the wrong project, not what there looking for. But if i research them a little and read the add, I'll know exactly what to send or not to send.
One feedback and I'll know where there at for me.

6. I've spent nearly my ENTIRE life's earning's on my music So $50 $75 or whatever to give my stuff a shot? That's "string money" for guitars.

What happened?

I joined and submitted a killer current ANYBODY can do it song.
I filled out the bio, the people in it could all be working there taking submissions.

I made a great choice match and selection and submitted. It was a $75 submission. They give you a 30 Day money back guarantee on the submission. I waited about 37 days but never got a response. Got my entire $75 back....

I know that these people must be busy, you can NOT have a music career and be very busy. So I did not judge the whole place by the one submission. Because I was cool about it Ron there appreciated that and probably the non bashing lol and gave me some free credits.

So,so far no harm. I will submit again. I will let you guys know what happens as I hope others would as well. I see Donna will fill us in.

Hey we have to try to do stuff with our music so we have stuff to complain about afterwards.


All the best.

Hey Sub,

So you get a critique. And...... ?

Why do you wish to spend $75 on a critique ? Are they promising something more than a video critique. And if so, what ?

If it's a song submission for a particular project, then $75 is very steep for ONE submission for ONE project.

Nothing of this does any harm, ( except for you loosing $75 ) but what good does it do ?

cheers, niteshift

Mike, you've summed it up well.

I was a TAXI (PLUS paid an extra $150 to be sent Dispatch requests) and NSAI member for a couple of years. Got zilch out of it. Compared to those combined membership fees, $72 (€50 euros) is nothing. NSAI provides 10 "free" critiques as part of the membership, but I found the bulk of them to be largely waffle. And none of the reviewers were au fait with the genre I like to write in.

As I mentioned in a previous post, my main reason for wanting to check Blazetrak out for myself is because much of my material is apparently suited to film/tv/theatre. Hence, I felt it could be interesting to submit a sample to a professional who actually works with this type of thing, and might offer advice.

I'm glad your own experience was - despite no response - relatively positive, and that you'd be willing to submit again.

Anyway, folks, here's the original thread. (I was mistaken when I said the site hadn't been discussed previously.)

http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=876021

Stay tuned.

Donna

Donna - I did get my entire $75 back, I just added it to the thread.

Nite - Are you kidding? What do you EVER get back sending or giving your song to ANYONE?

What's the score there or anywhere?

Besides If someone isn't completely full of crap, which I'll figure out in no time at all, then I'd believe in and bet alot more than $75 on myself.

Did an extensive search and so far plenty people on various sites have used Blazetrak.....so far I have not heard anything positive about getting a result other than a critique.....Has anyone had a placement or sold any music as a direct result of Blazetrak?......I could not find anything.

Here's another thread on them (short): http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=830977

Here's one as part of another thread: http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=827629

... and another: http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=823870

There might have been more, but that was enough.

Kevin

Just ponder on this.....they have a business model based on cashing in on the wannabes perpetual chase for recognition, acclaim fame and fortune and the business professionals greed for money.....how can it fail. They will always have a great supply of BOTH and never have to have a end product other than a critique. That IMO is highlly unethical.

Scamming people is bad......BUT usually they realise they have been scammed and adopt a once bitten attitude.
It is worse when they do not realise they have been scammed....they carry on oblivious
It is the pits when they are scammed but are convinced they have not been and actually defend and promote the scammers thinking they are giving a valuable service and a foot in the door to stardom....they will keep coming back for more or till they run out of money.....but no prob there are countless other wannabes to fill their shoes. This whole Blazetrak thing IMO stinks.....why am I the only one who thinks this way.

I have been told this over and over by many people I have talked over the years. Never pay anyone to review your songs!

Petra
Just my expeience

Whoa whoa you's need to slow down. When I got four songs placed in a movie I did not have to pay the director but I did have to pay for the lead. It was a yearly fee, a subscription just like Taxi.

We do not choose to HAVE to pay for certain leads or opportunities we have NO choice.

Your paying for the contact, if you want try another way, drop everything,alter your life completely, move to Nashville with your obvious outside accent and get in a HUGE massive line for ten years or so. See how it goes and if it costs you anything. Or move to NYC get a suit and briefcase and that Songwriters guide book. Go to the addresses in it and see if you can get passed the doorman, & security desk.

Or find the the kinda music lawyer who pitches for you for Free!
There common.

Petra, did you actually read any of Greg's, Mike's, or my posts?

Donna

The real bottom line in all of this is...The Music Business as We Know it (or used to know it)is in Terminal Decline..Good Luck to all you people who want to subscribe to this Company,Let us know the end result,i do hope you are not disappointed,but because of the state of this music industry nowadays,and the mentality of the "shortcut to success ",these two things go hand in hand unfortunately in today's world..QUE!..The opportunists(we won't call them scammers)As far as people listening to your music,there is a big world out there,the days of the record chappies are numbered,target your market,be innovative,and think outside the box,but the downside unfortunately for most folk is..you Need to invest,and i don't mean by sending some 3rd party a 100 bucks to give an opinion,IF , you really believe you can cut it,and believe in yourself,YOU WILL KNOW!..within yourself,but i must add this,you do need persistance,willpower and patience,and the foresight to know where you want your music to take you,but most of all and i really do not like to use this word...LUCK..but it does carry a lot of weight in this business..i know, because i have been lucky a few times,in the respect the right ears heard the right song,but at the end of the day,the song did the talking,being in the right place,at the right time,certainly carries a massive weight as well...Whether i could have got a "result" by sending my songs to an anonymous third party,for an opinion,and then following up by the track being actually recorded and a publishing deal...i tend to think not,but as the old saying goes"you payz your money...you takes your choice"....Cheers...Terry...

Hi Terry it's good too see you man...
This is not just in reply to you but for all.

What opinion? It's not a paid for critique only.

Teddy Riley puts a lead or add in with this company, to give us his opinion of our songs? They have specific things. It's not just songs but they're looking for artists, singers, producers, musicians, beatmakers etc...

I'm not defending or representing them but I can't see condemning them either without cause.

Disappointment? Who in there right mind is truly deserving of any opportunity without earning it through disappointment.
It is not up too anybody or any company to pre-determine before you submit anything if you are qualified enough or have paid enough dues. No it is not.

My intention months ago was to try it, then I would write a whole essay on it. They just didn't get to the submission and refunded the money.
It was for a young singer who just had a song on the last Twilight movie soundtrack. My song fit her, and the guy who was looking for it was an older my age musician,producer with a history of successful work. I figured since he wasn't hip hop/rap and comes from the band back ground and live instrument background, He would relate to me & my music.
I even re-did certain aspects of my song so it would fit more submissions.

If Paul Worley the Country Producer who did Song Of The Year Grammy winner Lady Antebelum is taking submission through them. Then what is that saying? Is he a crook? I don't know we should ask MAB he's gotta too know the dude.
Why would he after producing "Song Of The Year" would he need the money?? To waste time on amateur song submissions? Made it for any R&B artist today as well.

DarkChild there has Lagy Gaga! So what does he want? To make more money? Perhaps? And Why not?
Maybe they genuinely want to find some great material and give opportunities and make money.Sound logical to me. They must care about music somewhere or they wouldn't have got where they are.

That's a lot of good questions, I feel worth trying to shed some light on. And I question answers even more than I ask questions.

The old way was hard but I got some where with it.. Liked it better actually. Now I'm older and ill I can't hit the pavement and I can't allow my old self to think and react that way to everything.
People have to TRY stuff to learn or get anywhere with there goals. Even if they have to take a little beating to do it or decide not too anymore.

All the best!
Mike

Always good to hear people's opinions about what we are doing with Blazetrak (both good and bad). Let me address a few things:

The link that was posted was in fact just a press release that we put out, no big deal. If you want an unbiased opinion about us here is a link:

http://mashable.com/2011/03/28/blazetrak/

What is Blazetrak? It’s really quite simple actually. We provide direct access to people that you normally wouldn’t be able to get to or get in front of. We guarantee this is in the form of a video response from that person. There is a fee associated with this guarantee that we share with the Pro for their time, expertise, and the opportunities they can provide for THOSE who exhibit the talent. Maybe you see the value in this, maybe you don’t, but this is the proposition.

Is this shady or unethical? We don’t think so one bit. Let’s look at the advice/critique aspect first. You pay people every day for their time and expertise in every other industry imaginable. If you want advice on a legal document, you pay an attorney or expert. Should it be any different if you want advice on a song or production? Most people think Rodney Jerkins and Paul Worley are experts in their craft, so why is it unthinkable to pay them to hear what they think about your work?

Let’s examine the opportunity aspect. The pro’s who accept submissions on our site have the ability to open doors for you IF you are talented enough to them. These doors are completely inaccessible to so many people. What if you live in Idaho where there is no music industry or good networking possibilities? What do you do? What choices do you have to get yourself out there to be seen and heard? What if you live in Africa, or Japan or anywhere? What are your options? Our very 1st success story was an 18 year old kid from the UK. He knew no one in music, had zero connects and not a clue what to do or how to get his music to the US. He used Blazetrak, and now is managed by Jeff Haddad and just spent the last 3 weeks in LA working and taking meetings. It cost him $50. You can read about him here:

http://www.blazetrak.com/view_success_stories.php?ssid=8

Or what about the songwriter from Canada who made a submission to Ruben Studdard, and found himself in the studio with Ruben 3 weeks later? You can read about this here:

http://www.blazetrak.com/blog/?p=381

How about to girls from Florida whose dream was to work with Rodney Jerkins, and next thing you know, they are in the studio with Rodney Jerkins:

http://www.blazetrak.com/view_success_stories.php?ssid=10

I can probably post 100 more examples like this. Does this mean they are all gonna be big stars with deals and placements? Of course not. Is this the norm? Of course not and this will not be the result for most, because quite frankly most people are not good enough. Could of all of these things have happened without Blazetrak? Yeah I guess anything is possible, but the fact remains that it did happen because of Blazetrak.

In regards to paying for access or to submit music for people to listen, you are already paying indirectly in so many ways and do not even realize it. Here is a great post in another forum by someone completely unrelated to Bt that speaks a little about this:

http://www.futureproducers.com/foru...p-r-b/j-troups-opinion-blazetrak-340708/

Some people will never see the value in Blazetrak and that is fine with me. We can’t please everyone and we are not trying to. All we are doing is offering an alternative to what you normally do to try to make it out there.

Let me pose a question to you. Who is your favorite songwriter/artist/producer etc? Imagine that person reached out to you and said the following: “I want you to fly to anytown USA at the end of the week and you have 5 mins to impress me and MAYBE we can work together. There are no guarantees.”

Would you purchase that flight and take the chance? If you answer yes, then you just did exactly what Blazetrak offers and paid 5 times as much. If you answer no, then in my opinion, you probably don’t believe in yourself or your abilities enough anyway, which is a much bigger issue.

Ron Harrison Co-Founder Blazetrak

Great response Ron. Especially the last section.

Of course there's no guarantee in this business or any. Even if you think back to when you started and it STILL happens today, somebody said "Hey man that's a great song, you should do something with it, It would be perfect for "Seal". "Why don't you send it in"? LOL Did you write it with him in mind?

Oh man I" never thought of that"! lol They WONT listen or TAKE the song. It's like against the law or something lol.

Now you find the guy who produced or wrote for Seal at one time on Blazetrak. Hmmm maybe it's worth a shot, he'll pick up on what I and others have. Or someone similar to the act/person you wanted to submit for...

Anyway this just a simple example I'm using, but it's the core of what EVERY song writer who isn't the artist too feels and deals with....
This is a fact not disputable!

I GENUINELY care about people especially songwriters, AND I must make money to live.. What does that make me? Maybe you are the same way.

Put like that it almost sounds ethical.

You guys are not for real! If you can't find real publishers out there to pitch your music to for free, you are not doing your research properly. Spend a week looking for publishers online, and you'll find more than you can supply in a year!

How can someone dismiss something like this before we've tried it or bothered to look into it properly, Donna asks? Well, it's because we understand the business principle, and there are not that many of those around I can add. One is that business is non-ethical, though! Music supervisors and a&r get paid to listen to music by their employers, who makes money off of exploiting music.

If somebody don't have an a&r job where someone pays them to listen, they'll charge you if you insist that they should listen, and they'll even promise not to exploit the music (hint hint).. pure non-committed BS!

It's an expensive myth that it's hard to get music into the music business. There are takers if the music is worth a dang. Unfortunately, in most cases, it isn't. THAT's where this type of "business" comes in.

Ron, I was hoping you'd chime in here to give the facts from the source, so to speak.

Matter of fact, I sent an email off to Guy this morning, the young man from the UK. I'd noted on his Twitter page that something good must have happened for him, because he'd recently returned from LA and had been having Label-related talks there.

Donna

Yes Donna, we are very proud of Guy. As I mentioned he was our 1st connection that was made on Blazetrak. We havent spoken to him yet about his first trip io LA (or the USA actually), but we know that he is doing some great things.

Back in the bad old days when musicans, performers and songwriters had to serve an apprenticeship and not just any kid off the strret could make it there were pluggers, talent scouts and agents. These people would look out for up and coming talent then they would contact the correct people on their behalf to arrange auditions etc help them on their way. At no time did they ask the acts for payment.....any payment made was from commision from earnings as a result of the extra work they got from this introduction. Now these talent scouts new their stuff and would never put forward a bad act as this wasted everybody's time.

Whatever happened to the bad old days.....

Now it seems acts have to pay to speak to the big shots.....that IMO is unethical. Fist off it encourages people with no talent and a few hundred bucks to submit rubbish...wasting everyones time and their money. It is also a neat earner for those at the top of the tree who already make a good living and should in theory be giving something back into the industry instead by helping those with great talent without asking for money up front first. I could go on and say more but you get my jist.

It took me over 10 years to barely get where I am now (and believe me, my journey is JUST beginning). In that time, I spent a lot of effort making friends and building relationships. During that time, I walked into a few situations where I got screwed over and I was taken advantage of by people with less than noble intent. Would I pay $50, or $100, to cut to the chase and get to the meat of the situation if it meant I had guaranteed access to people who have the power to make things happen (as long as I had the goods to make it worth everyone's while)? You bet I would.

Being screwed over by people who are willing to take your hard work and profit from it whilst laughing behind your back is no fun. I think Blazetrak is merely providing another avenue for people to bridge the gap and cut out the weeds in the process. Here's another thing. They're not putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy into it. If you don't want to, DON'T! No one's gonna kick your ass on the way out and if you do choose to try it out in the future, you'll be welcome.

The hard way is HARD. For a lot of people, I would say don't quit your day job, but for those who have it, have it, and should consider something that could be their golden ticket. Willy Wonka put golden tickets in candy bar wrappers. If I remember correctly, Charlie had to go into a store and purchase a candy bar first before he could unwrap the candy.

At the end of the day, there may or may not be a golden ticket in your candy bar, but at least you still get to enjoy the candy.

Mags really? All I have EVER seen is publishers who are set up in there basement, those are the ONLY ones who take unsolicited music. Ones with no juice. Has this changed now, please send me links. Maybe times have changed on me.

I want publishers who represent signed artists who make money, listening to my songs! Not Joe Smith who decided to start his own publishing company like anybody can do. No diss to Joe Smith

The ones who say NO we can't listen are the ones who can help you at the level we are seeking. But finding the angle or the hook to get them and passed them is the life time trick. It usually starts by doing and spending all your time effort and money on your music. Some people refer to it as "Networking" now. I call it "busting your ass"

Go buy the songwriters market book like I have years ago and won't ever again probably and read all the NO ACCEPTING ones.
Try to find a publisher that will ADVANCE you as well.

Man we've been down that road many times before and decades ago.
Has it changed? Curious but doubtful

Good Honest Response from Ron @ Blazetrack,who freely admits most submissions are not good enough,and the examples given,young producers who have worked at their craft obviously,and seem to be committed to their craft,but two examples of a couple of r'n'b producers ,current tho' they may be,hardly covers the full Gamut of the music business.Personally i would like to see more examples,covering a full range of genre of music,(perhaps in time who knows)but i would guess,even the examples you have here,tho' no doubt it is a great experience for them,they will struggle to get a placement on a major artistes release,their best shot is probably to find an up and coming artist,and climb alongside them,and make their own identity,and i would imagine talking and working with these guys would only make them more determined,but whether Blazetrack is the route for the normal "married man" songwriter,i would have to say,it has a lot to prove yet,but in saying that,your response to the issues brought up on the board,well that has to be respected,especially your honesty...Cheers.. Terry...

Jim, you are entitled to your opinion, and I respect it, but i completely disagree with you. First of all having a fee actually SAVES time and should (in theory) deter people with no talent from submitting. What is more likely, someone with no talent to submit for free or to have to pay? Imagine the alternative. Lets use Paul Worley as example. Paul announces on the radio that he is looking for music, send music to Paul@gmail.com. How many submissions would he get? probably several thousand from every tom, dick and harry on the planet with a keyboard, with most of it being "rubbish" in your words. How long do you think it would take him to go thru all of that? How many many man hours? I am assuming you have a job and you get paid for the work you do. What you get paid can be broken down on a per hour basis correct? SO you think that because Paul has "made it" He should spend countless hours and days going thru those submissions for free and responding to each one because he owes you and should give back. That is what I call rubbish, and quite frankly unrealistic. Fast forward to Blazetrak, charge a fee to cut the fat so to speak, so instead of thousands of submissions, maybe he gets a MANAGEABLE number of 100. Could there still be some bad submissions in that bunch, of course, that is just the game. In this scenario each of the 100 will get a personal video from Paul discussing their specific submission. There is value in that to alot of people. Instead of sitting in the studio with Lady Antebellum making music that he KNOWS will make $$, he listening to you AND responding. Why should he not be compensated?

Terry, we are a new company so we have to start somewhere. No one really knows what will be accomplished with these guys, but thats not really the point. The point is that they are in better position now then they were before Blazetrak. Or motto is "Getting You Closer" not Get you a deal or placement or make you a star. We dont push that message or even hint at it. At the end of the day your talent or lack there of will determine that. All we do is position you with a platform so this fact can be determined by people who have the ability to make something happen for you.

It's a funny business this music business,you gotta play it cagey..let me share this story with you when iam here...just before the new year got an e mail from a record company in England(i'm based in Scotland)...Mr Moore,would you be interested in joining us,we are one of the UK's biggest "download" agents,we have access to all the major download sites worldwide,if you could provide the "artwork" we would be delighted to add some of your songs to our portfolio for downloads,in fact we will pay you an advance,we are so confident that in 6 mnths we will re-coup it...big Jim would say "i smell a rat"...gotta say so did i..hmmn,sounds too good to be true,wrote back,and said thanks,but no thanks,sounds too good to be true,whats the catch?...guy wrote back ...no catch..sign up with us,we will give you an advance..nah!..these things don't happen,anyway i sell and offer direct downloads from my own site..but thanks anyway...a couple of days later the guy writes back..Mr Moore,we are actually an agency as well, who trace uncollected royalties worldwide,you have a substantial amount of uncollected royalties from your songs...oh! ..i wrote back ..which songs? he hit me with 5 or 6 titles,so i thought, he must be "kosha"...ah! so that is why you can give me an advance..yes he replied...anyway the story will come to a conclusion in the next week or two,they are paying me these uncollected royalties in April(minus 20%)..but hey it's cash i didn't know i had...i will let you know when the cheque is paid in...then i may do business with this guy..so far so good,he seems straight up....Cheers Terry..

Sounds like a great story Terry. I'd be very interested to hear how your story ends.

I have a job...I am a pro singer.....I am in the lucky position of making a decent living solely from music.
I live and work in the UK though sometime venture abroad if the pay etc is worth the travelling.
Now we do things a bit different here in the UK to the USA so I will make allowances for that.
That said I disagree with what you have said.....but respect your opinion.
No I do not expect anyone to wade through tons of rubbish to find any potential.....but that will surely happen whether the submisiions are free or submitted to a paid service. A few bucks is not going to deter the serious delusional wannabes whether they have talent or not. Sorry to be blunt but that is a fact of life.
It is not rocket science to adopt a system like I explained happened in the bad old days where scouts searched for real talent and weeded out the rubbish before submitting the true talent to the people whos decisions count. Listening to a few sumissions from people who have been vetted by folks whos opinions you respect is far more productive if you want to find real talent than wading through thousands of tracks with a hundred dollar bill attached....soon the hundred dollar bill becomes the attraction rather than the material.

Getting you closer...ok Ron if you say so..who came second in the 100metres olympic final?...they were close,how close is close Ron,it is just an experience for these guys,they still have to burn a lot of midnight oil,i still say it,there are no short cuts,it's a long winding road,Blazetrack may be innovative,but don't know?see that young guys video response,hmmn,if i were you i would'nt use that as an example,didn't come across as totally convincing,mybe it's just me,but it didn't sound to me especially by his body language,as if he was totally blown away...Anyway,All the Best...Terry..

Gregory,Thanks Bud,yes i will definately let you know how the story ends,and i will be happy to pass on the company's name to any writer who may think they have uncollected royalties outstanding,this mob will trace them for you...Terry..

he is an 18 year old kid, sorry that he didnt give an oscar winning performance. The fact reamins that he is now represented by a highly respected LA manager, Has already worked and collabed with several KNOWN artists, songwriters and producers, made his first visit to the US, drove around in a Ferrai in LA (he was bragging about that on twitter, lol), and sat courtside at a LAKERS game.

All for the bargain price of $50

Is that close enough for you?

And what do u mean there are no shortcuts? This business is littered with shortcuts and luck? What hard work did Justin Bieber do? Putting a video on Youtube...Im sure a lot of work went into that.

Actually Terry, I do have uncollected royalties in Europe that I'd like to track down.

And nobody knew who this kid was PRIOR to crossing paths with Blazetrak. If you're dope, things might just happen. If you're not dope, then you'll get your reality check and suggestions on what to improve with.

Terry, I agree and yes it does not look like anyone's hiding anything or it's something we don't already know about.
And Ron made sense, really when someone is not meant to do or be something they may bail out on it. Especially when it costs money! I say with all respect to hopes and dreams "Please do, bail"

The biggest problem for the married stay at home song writer guy is he's married and has to stay home LOl. No but that there are specific submissions to cater to, here's what's good about certain ones..
You dont have to be the artist.... especially when they are looking for "Songs"
So right there age and looks and sex appeal is out. While I posses the last two things anyway even at this dis-eater stage of what I call a life LOL. I want those things out of the picture.

We just can't write or present out material as though we were old married men lol. Some guy I submitted to thought I was 20 and the manager of 4 bands. He wanted there songs... I said sorry no bands no manager all me.....

The BIGGESET concern before anything is....

1- Getting and being good enough and prepared. Work wise and mentally.

2- Realizing where you are at and what your trying to do, matching up with something or somebody else. Song matches artist or request.

Most of the submissions are in the world of Hip Hop / Dance. So you have to contend with that in ALL aspects of the Music/Entrainment Biz. If that's not your bag you either search for the other submissions or make alterations or variations of your work. The first ones easier. It's just whats most popular and it seems it's never what your doing at the moment right?

Gregory,as soon as these guys hit me with this cheque and i know for certain they are Kosha,i will pm you the you name of the company and their phone number..thats a promise..Terry..

I just had to pay TAXES for WHAT? I don't know, but I cant put too nickels together over here,to make another submission, it's ridiculous! And these doctor bills...

As soon as I can I'll test the Blazetrak system to the max, cause if anyone I submit to there was to ever sits in a musical room with me, I'm getting and keeping there attention. I'd bet ANY money on that. I faced the big wigs and won a few over in my time. There's only one I couldn't persuade to work with me. The biggest one, but i did get his labels approval on a live showcase. That;s neither here or there, it's just a point.
Why Because I'm great? Nope not a chance, too bad for me I know what great is. I suck rotten eggs in my book, but I WORKED hard bro, that's why! Screw talent or what the average person thinks real talent is. WORK!

I paid dues 100 times over, and I'm getting even more lethal than ever. Especially thanks to an industry that wont let me ever be content, lazy or get fat. Gave me that one hit back in the 80's so I can be content and somewhere selling cars at a dealership perhaps With my one hit wonder from the 80's maybe even a silly one at that.

Nope, As I'm reading this thread my left hand is bouncing four stroke rolls with the metronome on the practice pad too my left. The weak side! Just one of the many many steps in constantly improving myself somehow. I'm trying to figure how to raise enough money to get the $250 (starting cost) to how ever many hundreds or thousand to get a horn player from sessionplayers .com on to some of my latest instrumental work. Cant find one around here anymore and can't get into the city... Seven Hundred for a player to lay down a part, $50 to submit the whole song??

And for what? who even cares about them or me... We do it because we love it. And we have to. So I'm willing to gamble on any site or place that seems straight or at least has no bad rep.
Even out of curiosity I wanna see what excuse someone may give me for saying no.

All the best

Rebecca Black and her Friday Song is a shortcut to 24 thousand a week income as reported by Billboard.

When I was a kid I was not fond of the guido's around me. You know the disco boys... Now the same exact type get a Million dollars a piece for there four seasons of "The Jersey Shore"
All that tanning, working out and talent development in acting
and breasts enlargements, really pays off, no short cut there. Dues man!

Chasing girls, getting in fights, acting like A holes, I knew I should of done that instead of practicing six hours a day in my room. What was I thinking" What am I STILL thinking? lol

Ron my friend,good luck with Blazetrack,i respect your honesty,but unfortunately iam over here in Scotland,you are over there in the great ol' U.S. of A,..we share a common language,that is about all,but i would suggest,the way things are shaping up,and by your responses,as far as Blazetrack is concerned,you should add the rider,anyone over 25 yrs of age need not apply,for to be quite honest,i cannot for the life of me,see you add Andrew Lloyd Webber or anyone remotely of that ilk,to your video response team,if you get my gist,my yankee friend,but hey,18yr old driven around in a Ferrari,and would that be a baseball game as well, with a ringside seat?...man it don't get any better...just sign here my son!...all for 50 Greenbacks!...would hardly get you 5 gallon of gas over here in the UK..you may end up the Simon Cowell of the social network world if you don't be careful lol....Terry...

If we did get Andrew Lloyd Webber on Blazetrak, would you pay to make a submission to him??

Still seems like a crap shoot to me.

If you are young, hot and talented you have a shot.

If you are young and talented, you may still have a shot.

If you are talented, well ......

Good luck to all that try -- folks win the lottery every day. But you can't win if you don't play.

Kevin

Golden Rule Ron...The Terry Moore Songwriters Manual.Page 1..
DO NOT PAY ANYONE TO LISTEN TO YOUR MUSIC...the best judge anywhere in the world,is JOE PUBLIC...very seldom wrong...
The best compliment any Songwriter can get is for someone to sing your songs,and it don't get any better when you are singing your songs,and your audience is singing along with you,that is what you call a GREAT critique...no doubt Blazetrack will find a niche in the market,but whether it can sustain it,now, that is the $64,000 dollar question my friend..but from this side of the pond,i wish you well..but your forgetting one important fact here Ron...iam SCOTTISH,we are supposed to be very tight with money,as far as the fable goes...anyway would you like a video of Andrew Lloyd Webber,he has a face like a bulldog chewing a wasp.....Terry...

Last Word!

Registration of a basic claim in an original work of authorship on Forms PA, SR, TX, VA, SE (paper filing) $65.00

Why should anyone ever even bother?

If you are worried about copyrighting, you can do a collection of many tunes on-line for $35.

There's a sideshow tent at the circus with a picture of a giant chicken chasing a small man on a sign that reads "Man eating chicken!"

It costs a dollar to get in. When you step inside there's a man at a table eating from a bucket of fried chicken.

Caveat Emptor.

Good One Dan:}

Petra

Thanks Kev I knew that and wasn't worried. But even at $35 remember, if you have a new song and a deadline of a submission are you gonna wait to finish 10 other songs to copyright them all together to save money? And lose the submission or do you take care of that one your sending out?

That answer is easy... You pay! $35 a song!

Somebody/Anybody who never submits there songs would never think of that nor would they even consider Blazetrak or any other place like Taxi or others like them. That's the real conflict of interests in this thread. The money is sometimes an excuse.
Now somebody will come along in here crying that I insulted them lol

mike, check your pm's.

Well, I actually went and checked out the site. Went to the songwriter/publisher links, of which there were 66. Scrolled down, and at least 41 were African-Americans. There went my country song hopes. (Anyone here who is politically correct, spare me, those are the numbers) The fact is, I've never heard of 95% of these "professionals". So here are my loaded questions: Where are the bios for these "professionals"? What have they accomplished? Which artists have they worked with? And here's the real killer question: What have they ever worked on that has actually charted, especially on Billboard? And why isn't this stuff posted as a convenient link? Enquiring minds would like to know, not to mention it would add a lot of credibility to Blazetrak's "professionals".
Ott

Hey Ott,

You might consider clicking on "View Details" for each professional if you want a biography describing what those professionals have done. Just a hunch, but I think the answer to your questions are just a click away.

Also, when in doubt, there's this little thing called "Google". By any chance, have you heard of it?

Greg: What is this "Google" you speak of?
Ott

Bump

Greg: You got me. I missed the "bio and credits" box. Will check them out.
Ott

LOL sweet! I was hoping you would take it as the humor I intended! :-)

Google is this sweet invention that's sort of like an engine...although I'm not sure how to turn it on or whether it requires a key, eye scan, or fingerprint option...

Don't get me started on how to drive it because every time I try, I screw it up and I end up crashing it! lol :-)

Apparently it likes hide and seek because there's a lot of searching involved.

Yes, this is absolutely true. Remember, I have absolutely NOTHING at stake here. I provide my take, take it or leave it, and I'm not trying to ruin anybodys business - ESPECIALLY not fellow songwriters' business! Do I want to provide you with the links to prove my point? No, because 1) they are not that hard to find (do your own research) and 2) they WILL close down their open doors if they get swamped with 50.000 unrealistic submissions. Over here you can even submit music online to a&r with a MAJOR record company (yes, also for free), how's that for open doors? (it would not take you too long to find THAT; think Denmark, think major labels, think websites). I cannot recommend any of the available books on this subject, you have to do your own research. There's just no way around that.

I know others that have had success building relationships with cold calling too. Nothing new under the hood really. It's called making business relationships or marketing. Communicating in that genre can be learned from books. It's all about relationships with publishers, producers and artists. Blazetrack got that right, IMO.

But if your music is not up to par (sounds on the edge contemporary in broadcast quality), don't bother (of course I know yours ARE, Mike! but this is a public forum). I'm guessing that folks who are buying into deals like Blazetrack are folks who doesn't have that type of music, and think others may want what they have. Unfortunately the market doesn't work that way. You either have it or you don't. They either want it or they won't. Music is subjective, but not THAT subjective!

Bottom line for me is: when you pay for having folks to listen with no real opportunity offered, you basically ruin the market mechanism, and you can't trust the feedback on your music anymore. Good feedback is not in what people SAY, it's in what they DO (risk something of their own for yours, like in contracts and stuff :-). So, what's your win?

Kudos to Ron from Blazetrak to come on here and defend himself from us vultures who traditionally stick up for the poor songwriters and musicians who forever seem to be chased by companies wanting them to part with what little money they have. You have my deepest respect for that.
Some people will see the Blazetrak service as a valuable thing with possibly a pot of gold at the end for some artists etc....others see it as cashing in on a wannabes desire for recognition. Either way it is bound to be a success perhaps only just for Ron and his cohorts. Time will tell.
OK some guy got spotted and may hit the big time because of Blazetrak.......but I would like to think that these people probably would make it in any case the conventional way.
Sadly we are in a situation where the next star could be the talentless girl next door who can barely sing in tune......cause she posted a song on Youtube about the days of the week. Is it any surprsie that the wannabes will try anything to get a sniff at success.

So, his manager is paying for all this ? Just asking..... it would be a little strange for the manager to pay the talent .... oh but wait a minute, ....

The Ferrari line really sums it all up for me. LOL It's a great phycological give away of smoke and mirrors.

Can Blazetrack please provide the successful referral percentage ? Taxi, for example quotes a 3-5% random chance ratio.

As to business models, please compare Blazetrack to industry professional publishers such as www.musicdealers.com which has no sucker,..... er I mean..... entry fee for submissions.

Oops, I forgot, it's not about submissions, it's about driving Ferrari's and going to Lakers games. *bangs head on desk*


cheers, niteshift

Nite it is the very expression "business model" that sums up the whole business nowadays.....whatever happend to passionate musical people who were really into putting out great music by truly talented people and could not care less if they made zillions just as long as they could make great records. They have been replaced by people who are not in the slightest interested in music but are interested in having a succesful business model which makes tons of money...making great records is not essential...heck in most cases not even required. Any cute kid will do...."now son stand in front of that camera..... does not make any difference if you cannot sing...our techies will cover it in the studio.....cant write a song?..... does not matter we will cover it with sound effects etc...our techies have that off to a fine art. lets make you a star......you will be forgotton in six weeks but hey we all make tons of money meanwhile" Sadly all the other kids say well I am cute and I can sing just as badly as Justin Bieber so I deserve a shot. That is not a business model it is a scam....I do not want any part of that.
I remember the days when record producers agents etc had a reputation for only signing the best and went to great lengths to discover only the best. You had to be top drawer and have served an apprenticeship before being discovered. Sadly that no longer happens. The cute kid next door COULD EASILY be the next star FOR ALL THE TALENT AND EXPERIENCE THAT IS NEEDED NOWADAYS.
The bar has been set so low that just about anybody can easily jump over it....with the right help and backing.

its pretty funny how you manage to pick and choose what to focus on in my statement. You poke fun at the Ferrai and Lakers comment (which was made in jest on my part anyway), but gloss over and ignore the point that he is actually working with mainstream artists now (actual work), which is what this whole thing is supposed to be about.

Who is paying for all of this for him, i dont have the slightest idea, nor do i care or does it matter. What matters is 10 months ago, he was sitting behind a desk in an accounting class at a community college in London with dreams of one day coming to the US to work as a producer. He spent $50, and made a connection the lead to him coming to LA to work in the studio with the likes of Dave Aude and Nicole Scherzinger of the Pussycat Dolls. Maybe you dont think he is in a better position now than he was, maybe you think Nicole and Dave suck as artists and musicians (or dont even know who they are) and none of this will amount to anything for him, maybe you are just bitter because he took a "shortcut" to get to place that people (or yourself) spend their whole lives trying to get to (working with a major artist) and you dont think he deseres it. The truth is it really doesnt matter what you think because you did not use the service, he did, and he is pleased with the result.

In regards to a successful referral percentage, i haven't run the numbers but obviously it is very low, most people just are not good enough and those are the facts. Less then 1% of all college athletes go onto to play pro sports, does that mean people should not play college ball if their goal is to play pro?? Of course it doesnt, you put yourself on the line and hope you make it knowing that you probably wont. Here is a percentage i can give you: the percentage of complaints we recieved from people who did NOT make a connection....ZERO! Sure people may not like to hear that their music just isnt that good, no one likes to hear that, but they appreciate the fact that it came from someone they respect or admire, and they appreciate the time and the advice that came along with it to help them potentially improve.

We are giving people the chance to get their creations into the hands of people you cant just call up, you cant email, you cant just go knock on a door and have their undivded attention. Actually we guarantee it! There is a fee for this guarantee. You wanna send some music to an a&r in Denmark for free that you found online who may or may not respond?... be my guest, knock yourself out. When is the last time an a&r in Denmark won 3 Grammys, or had a #1 Billboard hit (hot 100), or sold 30 million records worldwide? Blazetrak is not for everyone, and we never intended it to be. If you have the connections, networking ability, know how, and access to people like we have for free, then you are in GREAT shape and congrats to you, u dont need us. If you have $50 in the bank and its either make a submission or eat, please go buy a sandwich. If you live in the middle of nowhere, you dont have any access, you dont know who to talk to or how to get yourself out there, you tried other avenues that dont seem to be working for you, you have a little extra money, a dream and talent, then give us a try. you never know what might happen.

Cheers!

Mike, I remember when it was $30 or 35.00? (US)

I have to check out how much it is here Under Intelligence Property.

Petra

How and why is copyright registration tangled up in all this? I got lost on that one.

Kevin

I don't know Kevin,

Forums take all kinds of twists and turns like a winding road.

Like everyday life, you start out to do something and you get sidetracked.

Peta

I don't know Kevin,

Forums take all kinds of twists and turns like a winding road.

Like everyday life, you start out to do something and you get sidetracked.

Peta

I don't know Kevin,

Forums take all kinds of twists and turns like a winding road.

Like everyday life, you start out to do something and you get sidetracked.

Peta

So
Here we go
Driving another possible resource away from JPF.
How many is that now?
Good work guys.

I know what you are talking about Bill, but in this case I have to disagree. This is a "for pay service" and therefore JPF is as good a place as any to "put it through the ringer". If it comes out the other side looking OK, then it might just be OK. As long as the conversation remains civil, why not? It seems there are a few folks that are giving it a try.

Kevin

Surprised Marc has not :?popped his head into this hot topic.mmmmh

Hey Bill,

No, I don't think so, just an honest discussion on the merits or otherwise, of $75 ten minute friends.

Is that kind of thing legal in your state ?

cheers, niteshift

I really couldn't have said it any better than that. :-)

I recall posting a song once on the boards (and the song is now being considered by a major artist for an upcoming project of theirs and professionals who have heard it think it's a hit) but someone here on the boards suggested I should change the lyrics to encompass mermaids, greek mythological creatures, and a plethora of other stuff that would have rendered the song unmarketable in the top 40 market. How is that suggestion ( on these boards ) preferable to people who have had major mainstream successes? So I can get a suggestion from a hobbyist as opposed to someone who does this for a living and has success at it....But apparently some of you guys think a bad suggestion is preferable to putting your apprehensions aside and trying something that might prove fruitful?

The logic here astounds me. smh (shakes my head)

Anyway, I'm done posting on this thread. Blast away. Those who see the value in it, will try it. Those who don't, ignore this thread and go back to whatever it was that you were doing. No harm, no foul.

How many songs (or artists) have you heard on JPF that you really, really thought had "can't miss" commercial potential? I would say not that many. For those "can't miss" folks, then BlazeTrak might be a good avenue.

For the rest of us, it is just a "more expensive" professional critique. I am not sure why this logic astounds you. If I was writing songs that were at the "commercial bar" and things were starting to come together, then I can see where this service might be useful.

Can a model be discovered walking in the mall with her mom? Sure -- but it is the exception to the rule.

In all likelihood, for 99+% of the aspiring folks, this service will end up not furthering their careers.

Kevin

Kevin

Truthfully, I haven't heard very many people on the BOARDS with that commercial potential. That doesn't mean there aren't members within the JPF community who have commercial viability. I think Brian has confirmed that there ARE on several occasions. I've connected with a small handful here on JPF with the potential (and have had some success), but for the most part, there are a lot of people on the boards who don't fit what is commercially viable right now. That's just the reality. Anyone who gets offended by my saying so, I'm not apologizing for saying so. The truth is the truth.

Yes, I meant the JPF boards -- and I agree with your assessment. I don't think anyone would be offended by that opinion.

Kevin

Here's another reality....I wasn't always at the level I am at now. Brian can attest to that. Lol In my opinion, at one point in the past (until I improved), I didn't exactly "suck", but I wouldn't let anyone hear a lot of my earlier works. haha So even if someone ISN'T commercially viable, that also doesn't mean they won't be in the future. If they got the RIGHT advice from the RIGHT people, they can make leaps and bounds. I just don't think a lot of the people offering "critiques" on the boards are the right people for it (unless their intent isn't to get their songs on the radio or on major artist albums), then by all means, ignore what I say too. :-)

Greg most of us here are mature adults and write adult music so it is hardly surprising that few of us write or even understand kids chart music and even less could give a decent crit on it. I would not consider a critique from a kid who writes like Justin Bieber would be much good or appropriate for my style of music either. So it is mutual.
I doubt very much if a couple of five minute video reviews or pro critiques could help anybody that much and the chance of being picked up with a record deal by some top professional is just a carrot to lure people in....it is unlikely to happen. There is no shortcut to learning the craft and attaining success is a combinataion of luck, hard work and contacts.....
But if Blazetrak works for you then I do not have a prob with that.
You obviously have your finger on the pulse and know better....keep us posted if anything ever comes from your dealings with Blaztrak....I would be genuinely interested and a trifle surprised if it ammounts to much. That said nothing would suprise me about the music scene of today. Some real stinkers have made it big.

Actually,

I did have a good experience using Blazetrak. I made a couple of submissions to Brian B Richardson (B.O.B's manager) and we've exchanged contact information and are now in touch outside of Blazetrak. I may or may not have had the opportunity to get in touch with this guy outside of Blazetrak, but the fact remains, due to using Blazetrak, the connection has been made.

If you're unfamiliar with B.O.B, then check out the song "Airplanes" (it was a hit on the radio and the song was done by adults):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn6-c223DUU

Each to his own, please keep us informed.

Of course there will be successes, that's the nature of buying a lottery ticket. As long as folks are informed that it's $75 critique, and that's all it is.

cheers, niteshift

PS - Mr Blazetrack, I think you may have me confused with that crazy pilcher eating, beer swilling Dane. I don't know any Danish A&R folks ??? I do know a Danish mastering engineer, who has contacts with lots of REALLY REALLY famous people, but they're probably just unknown Danish A&R guys....... and smell of fish and stale beer. *shrugs*

Niteshift...

I thought you were A famous Danish singer that immigrated from down under?

Yep done by adults...... the guy rapping looks all of eighteen or nineteen. I have socks older than him. Sorry this type of stuff does nothing for me I just do not get it...but if you get work from Blazetrak for writing this sort of stuff good luck.

And that's why you and I are not two pea's in a pod.

I looked for americana/country and came up with a few (actually only Paul W, but you gotta scout around):

John Rich: Not accepting submissions

Paul Worley (Lady A): $132 a crack

Steve Fishell (successful producer): 15 credits ~ $170 (?).

By and large it does seem to be a hip/hop, rap, pop dominated site.

Kevin

So it is aimed mainly at kids or I should say young adults to keep myself right with Gregory....well that speaks volumes. "I want a PS3 cause all the other kids have one" will soon be replaced by "I want Blazetrak credits...pleeeeeeze mum"
Cannot get my head around the credit idea....... why do they not just simply come out and say a straight charge and the more famous the person the higher the fee they command.
lets say you can do 4 listens and critiques per hour so $400 or more per hour earnings is not to be sniffed at.
Hey Blazetrak I can do critiques and there seems to be a gap in the market for critiquing music from over 25s.

(yawn)

You're talking in circles Jim. You do your thing, I do mine, we're golden. Stop beating a dead horse.

Only messin.....but I think it is unethical and just a simple money maker.

Hey there, I even didn't read all this stuff(it's boring)
I do only statement (as for me): never pay for critique.
Example: right today I did submission via www.musicxray.com to get a critique of my song, why did I submit?- cuz it's free!
There are options at musicxray:: "free opportunities" and "No submission fee", so,
if I see something interesting exists there, then I submit.
That's all.

Understood and I respect your opinion, even though I happen to disagree.

Quick notes

1- I brought up the copyright costs.. Since spending money on our music is such an issue why does anybody spend to copyright? $50 or $75 to submit a song is not terrible copyrighting $35- $65 is....
Moneywise...

2- A Critique is not ALL it is. It's a SUBMISSION! The intention is for your song to be used. The critique is two different things
1- Proof it was ever even heard HUGE! 2- Advice and a learning process on that particular tune or match up with the submission.

Those last two are what I'm really interested because I'm never sure it was listened too in many cases and I worked extremely hard too eliminate #2.

3- I don't think we'll chase Ron away Bill He'll do so little with us he'll just move along most likely. But he seems poised and not easily rattled (so far) But from what I can tell that's part of his character. And also he BELIEVES in what he's doing that's totally obvious to me. And right there tells me something. What he's saying about the level, the contacts, the matchups/hookups, the chances and the gambles are all dead on truth.

4- If he was pushed away he'll be pushed by folks who would never use his service and have no real desire or experience/knack to place a song in the mainstream or create mainstream songs. That's kinda beat.

Peace
Sub

First off I think it speaks volumes that Ron came here and in a very articulate way explained what it was that he is trying to accomplish

Second, I have "known" Greg for several years and followed his progress before, during and after his service tour...and have nothing but the utmost respect for him. If he supports it, listen and respect what he says.

Third. The money is inconsequential when viewed through the lens of the real sharks who ask for hundreds and thousands of dollars for services that make no sense

Fourth. The internet allows for amazing amazing business models and many different ways to collaborate and share. BT is simply working their version of a business, and they are all entitlted to make a living doing it.

Fifth. Nothing I read here indicates this is not a legitimate business that works to fulfil its promise.

Sixth. Just because the music that is predominant at BT is not "your music", that does not mean it is not a legitimate business or a useful service.

Seventh. Just because there are free alternatives or other ways to get this done, does not mean BT is somehow tainted.

Eighth. Any business in its infancy has few customers and few suppliers, so just because you don't recognize or respect those involved does not make it a shady business

Ninth. $50 to $200 is nothing in this day and age. It's a couple of tanks of gas, a good night out...

Tenth. Good luck BT. I think you are on to something and I wish you success.

Hey John,

Thank you so much for your words. I appreciate it more than you know. :-)

For people like Jim who think me and my team are just cooking up only "Justin Bieber" type songs, here is a taste of what we've been in the lab doing:

www.soundcloud.com/gvwatton

Not that there's anything wrong with writing songs for Justin Bieber. If that opportunity came my way, I wouldn't turn it down and it's no secret I'm a fan of the guy.

Anyway, thanks to those who've shown me support and thanks to those who don't too. Nothing's gonna stop me from putting into motion what I have been working hard to do. :-)

Jim's OK. He's a traditionalist who came up via the old school of hard knocks.

Just giving Jim a hard time since he's so adamantly against Bieber. Haha

Haha I bet you underneath that tough guy Scottish exterior, Jim's really a softy who secretly has Bieber Fever. lol :-) (Just jiving you Jim)...

Is Blazetrak a division of Statue Records?

No.

There's absolutely NO affiliation whatsoever. Dan, are you for real? WTF.

John,

Super,very well put. I like the number listing technique lol

Has anyone ever been like "Man I lost those contacts now, nothing new is on the horizon, nothing's happening. And even so artists are all writing there own songs even if they shouldn't be technically. Especially since the quality of them are so low right now ANYONE CAN and still they don't need somebody who JUST WRITES SONGS anymore in this business.

What the hell are my options? Film & TV? well I was on to that 10 years ago and if you go that path YOU have to provide the final production product.. That costs alot more than $50 - $75 - $135- $200 or $500 dollars... Actually it costs $400 with Substudio Music Services lol

And let me think for a second NOW the music libraries have become the more dominate force in providing songs for film & TV.
Press play a TINY pay and download. That's gonna put my kids through college? You can't even buy them McDonalds for what places are willing to pay.

Oh and wouldn't the MAJORS GIVE there new young bands material away FREE! to me in the next hot show or movie. The young band will be THRILLED to death to tell all there friends & family even if they did not get a penny. As the label would sit down and explain to them HOW important it is to have this FREE exposure on CSI or the hundred other shows..

Sounds like Monopoly to me...

I want my next song done by "Rhianna" I've been told here that I can reach her publisher for FREE and I'm guaranteed solicitation
and a response by phone or video....
Well Mags didn't promise that lol but really what the hell kinda publishers are we talking about. Why would THEY bother with ME? or US?

THEY WON'T!!!!

So now you need alternatives and new angles. Yes becareful, be doubtful, be pessimistic but do not be close minded.
Everytime, a hundred times, someone asks me "Should I join Taxi"?
Forget about the list of reasons why or why not.

ONE BIG SIMPLE QUESTION!
"What else are u doing, where else can you go with your music" ?

Greg, & Mr. Blazetrack: You are about to bring me over to the dark side. I actually spent over three hours today (OK, I'm a slow reader) checking out the bios/credits of the 65 "professionals" listed under the songwriter/publisher category. I hadn't recognized their names, but I certainly recognized the artists they have been successful with. There are a bunch of people on Blazetrack with some stunningly impressive credentials, and I in fact picked out 12 I thought it might be interesting to submit to.
Last night, I was paying bills. The cable/internet approached $200.00. The T-Mobile wasn't much better. I remember when TV was free, and my phone bill hovered around $50.00 No more. I'm thinking that the old adage "never pay someone to listen to your music" will work quite well if you don't want someone to listen to your music.
The "credits", or "costs" requested by the listeners ranged from 5 to 16, depending, I assume, on how far up the musical food chain they are -- but the credits are set by the professional, not Blazetrak. So the most expensive guy was at 16 "credits". If you popped for 100 "credits" up front, your cost is $900, or $9.00/credit. So, $144.00 for one song submission. Cheapest was 5 "credits", or $45.00 using the same ratio.
Frankly, there were several people on the site that I would kill to get a five minute listen from. The fact that they come back at you with a video critique adds greatly to the legitimacy of this site, in my opinion. "Ms. or Mr. Big" actually listened, not some intern in a closet in the back hall, wondering if he's going to get lucky on his evening date.
At any rate, I've spent a great deal of money on demos over the past few years, so I think a few hundred on this site is worth a shot. Will let you know how it works out.
Ott

Hey Alek,

Yes, there are a few free oppertunities at http://www.musicxray.com/ but, by enlrge it's a paid site with prices ranging from $3 to $500.

Like Blazetrack and others, it makes it's money from the artist rather than the placement source.

I don't think that anyone's mentioned, that there is no music business anymore. It's been dead for 10 yrs or more.

But even previous to that, it relied/relies upon putting out a large solid catalogue, and chasing up leads.

The work is simply not there. It has been replaced by large music databases, where producers can access EXACTLY what they want and when they want to. It's pre-cleared, and the only criteria is wether or not it exactly fits the project. And it's incredibly cheap. The last track I got placed for a small regional, payed $19.95

It used to matter "who you know". That doesn't work anymore, although it always helps.

There is simply too much product, and not enough outlet for that product. ( recorded music )

Because of the self implosion of the music industry, we now have another industry that has sprung up, "the pay to play" industry. And it will gladly take the money of those that don't realise that the old industry is dead in the water.

It is based around those who are left. Those that once worked with "famous" people and can no longer make their living from legitimate music production. So, they are relegated to the role of "teacher" or "service provider" to those that think they may still be able to climb the ladder.

There is no ladder. The ladder is horizontal, and in most cases leads to the basement.

Spend money the way you wish. Just realise that it's a ticket to a 10 minute home made movie which taps into the pyhcology of the percieved lack of your own validation or self worth.

cheers, niteshift

Niteshift: Have you morphed into Dr. Freud? "Spend money the way you wish. Just realise that it's a ticket to a 10 minute home made movie which taps into the pyhcology of the percieved lack of your own validation or self worth."
If I pop $100 bucks to have someone who's won a Grammy, or Emmy, or whatever, to listen to one of my tunes, I suspect my sense of "validation" or "self-worth" might be quite high.
Ott
p.s. Did you listen to my last submission on MP3? Neither have a lot of other people.
Ott

BINGO! Give this man a cigar Now that's totally getting it.

Now if you'd like you can think about that song you wanted to submit post it on the mp3 board, mention " I was thinking of investing more into this song including money to pitch it, and also since you will even know who it's intended for mention that as well. Maybe in the post title put - "Song Title" & pitching

I most likely will see that since I check the board nearly every day, and can help let you know for Free! in 30 seconds or less if your set to go. Others may do the same, I know it attracts my attention even more when someones going for something beyond the fun of it or the love of it.

Why? if it's not our job. Cause some people like to help other people AND if these people are songwriters BOY do they need each others help lol

Thank you Ott.

See that's all I'm trying to do here. Show people different avenues that can help them, IF they're interested in doing so. I'm not trying to pull people's toenails off their feet one at a time. I'm not holding people's eyelids open and pouring salt in them. I'm not forcing anyone to watch endless episodes of Barney or giving them a choice between eating a plateful of broken glass or swimming in a pool with man eating sharks.

I simply want to give those who want HOPE a chance to have it. Thank you for taking the time to at least investigate BT's site and looking deeper than most here. So, THANK YOU.

:-)

I don't have to come to these boards guys. I don't have to say one word to anyone here. I choose to because I have a good heart and if a guy like me can start out with no connections and no experience and end up with a lot of great opportunities and a bright future, the same can happen for other people. I keep my eyes and ears open because there ARE others out there who are just like me.

I've basically been a member of JPF since 1999. Brian has seen me grow from a punk ass, know it all kid, to someone who actually learned a few hard knocking lessons and came out on top as a result. I'm not the best person in the world, nor do I pretend to be, but I do know what I'm talking about.

If I recommend something or bring something here for your attention, it's because I think it could be beneficial for some people.

Of course, there's always gonna be naysayers and to them I say, "Good on ya."

I'm an underdog and I know it, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

I still don't care for Mr. Bieber, nor does my daughter.
Ott

Hey Ott,

Really ? You think you can buy self worth ?

I don't see any validation when you are paying for it.

Validation comes for a whole bunch of sources. It's not worth 2 cents if have to pay for it. And very sad if you do.

It's very similar to prostitution. "Me love you long time", and even longer if you pay more. *sigh*

I'm opposed to such practices as this, as those that perpertrate them, send out a message that what they are dealing with is the real world of media. It couln't be any further from the truth. It's a trip to Disneyland.

cheers, niteshift

I am a big softie and will help anyone I can anytime I can. I will always give advice and practical aid. I sometimes will even do a demo or recording work for folks here and in other places...All of that for free. I think that says more about me than it does about Blazetrack who would charge for such services.
Yes I have Bieber fever...every time I see or hear the little squirt I feel sick.
I took a listen to your song......I tried to like it but sorry it does nothing much for me. It is so like so many other songs from boy bands and has little originality. On a positive note it is no worse than most of the songs that do chart these days. My biggest nit is the singer.....I hate the way kids sing in that stylized way and found it very difficult to make out a lot of the words....poor pronunciation. But that is probably the accepted way of doing things these days.
This demonstrates that I am not the best person to crit your songs or give you advice on how to further your career...it is clear that the style of your music is alien to me....I just do not get it. So you made a good point agreeing on that and probably most people on this forum have similar views and tastes to mine. However I still think that BT is perhaps not the way forward......I certainly on principle could never use them or suggest that it is a valuable service for anyone I know. I see how it works BUT can never condone paying for music to be listened to. That said you could not pay me to listen to Bieber.
I think there are a lot of areas with todays ways of doing things that IMO are unethical. One example is a recent boy band concert that my friends kids went to see......the ticket prices were exhorbitant by any standard...the programs were £12 each...I saw said 12 page program and would have not justified paying any more thsan £1 for it. But the most disgusting rip off was the autograph signing and pic with the band scam at the end.....there was a long queue of emotional kids all having to pay a huge fee to have their pics taken with the band and get a signed poster. What parent would deny their screaming, infatuated kids these things?.....so the management unethically can charge what they like and know they will get away with it.

I am not even going to bother wasting my time answering your post at length.

Niteshift: I don't recall saying that one can "buy self-worth". What I like to buy is "opportunity". I'll give you a couple of examples. I pay professional demo firms to do my demos, and I use high-end firms. They expect to get paid! I've paid over $1,000 for a demo. I took a CD with a few of these demos to the 2008 TAXI convention. I booked one pleasant hour with Pat Luboff to listen and critique my tunes. She expected to get paid! Also, an hour with John Braheny. He also expected to get paid! So far, I've paid for professional services, and haven't felt like a hooker. Then, I entered my expensive demos in both the Great American Song Contest and the Billboard Song Contest. They expected me to pay an entry fee! Well, I got an "honorable mention" three years running in the GASC, and an "honorable mention" in one Billboard contest. And you know something? I still didn't feel like a hooker, and I suspect none of the professionals I paid did either.I got a great sense of "self worth" from those honorable mentions. Are they tainted because I paid money along the way?
I was just as skeptical as you when this thread started. It wasn't until I checked out the credits of the professionals on the site that I changed my mind. You need only one of these people to like your stuff. It's my marketing money, and I'll spend it as I see fit -- even as I realize how slim the odds are. And by the way, I went to Disneyland once. I remember it fondly, still have the video we took.
Ott

Hey Ott,

Sorry about the hooker comment. I meant them, not you.

Ott, the difference is, and I'll put it bluntly, the folks you are talking about are highly respected. They are educators, and have spent their whole life educating others. They love to educate, and they love music. They have more contacts than you can throw a stick at. And they would never say so, because they have too much respect in themselves.

It is the insinuation that is put foward here, that I don't like. Like somehow it's a fast track to success.

It's not. It's selling dreams, and unrealistic ones at that.

I'm glad we agree on the Disneyland thing.

I'll drop by, and listen to your tracks. I'll do it for free too. You never know where they might end up.

I did a write up for an artist here, because I really liked what I heard and saw. One of those Cd's ended up in Tel Aviv, with a film and televsion composer I know. It got then got sent on to one of the major film studios in LA for consideration. Why did that person do that, at no benefit to them ?

Why ? Because I asked for that to be done ? No. Because I paid for it ? No...... Because someone else saw talent, and someone else saw potential where it was clearly recognised, and passed it foward. Maybe something will happen one day. Maybe not. That's the real world. That's the way it works.

It's just my take, and my experience...............

I don't favour this kind of "business", as it's not business at all.

Anyways, I'll drop by and take a listen. For what it's worth, I'm not famous, but would be willing to lend a hand.

cheers, niteshift

Nite.

I think you miss the point entirely. No one's "selling" a dream. No one's saying, "Hey, pay us and we'll make you famous." Nobody is making such claims.

What IS going on is that the professionals featured on the site are taking time out of their busy schedule to go through the stack of submissions so to speak to see if there might be anything worth their while in it. But going through the stack of people who otherwise would NEVER have access to these people takes time, and in the world of business, time is money.

Yeah, I could easily get feedback FOR FREE here on JPF, but according to your buddy Big Jim, my songs are complete and utter crap. He's entitled to his opinion, but apparently he has a low opinion of other people who frequent the JPF boards because he seems to think other people would actually agree with him. Lets put it to the test. How many people think the songs on this link are crap:

www.soundcloud.com/gvwatton

I'm interested to hear what the opinions on this board are. Here's an experiment on some "free advice" here...

Gregory,

You are taking this too personal -- Big Jim thinks everything is crap. I have had numerous battles over stuff like "Powerless" by Nelly Furtado, but it is all fun -- it's art, folks are entitled to their opinion.

My only worry about BlazeTrak -- yea, maybe no one is "selling a dream", but I bet there are tons of folks that are "buying a dream". If you are nowhere close to the bar, then a video critique for $130 is not going to get you much closer. I would suppose that 99+% of all submissions fall into that "nowhere near" category.

Kevin

Hey Greg,

I'll be totally honest with you here. I'm too damn old and too damn tired to put up with this nonsense.

Try getting up at 3 am for a sound check. Try being on set at 4 am with in the morning with some fuckwit that thinks the whole world revolves around them. Then multiply it by 100x.

That's the real world.

And then, just think about the $75 offer.......that some bozo is going to get you "connected".

The real world buddy, are doing their thing. And they absolelty know what's going on. Every day.

It's just that the actual real world of entertainment are employed in it, doing the heavy lifting.

What you are talking about here, is just talk. It's absolutely unrelated to reality.

If you don't know the difference, then learn.

cheers, niteshift

More quick notes lol

1. No one should worry or be concerned about Blazetrak if A) Your not using them 2) You do not create the kind of material they are looking for. C) See A

2. Nite - Are you saying in that response too Ott that you can get songs placed? And if so what the hell are you waiting for? Place your songs and HELP US! LOL
And where's the "Write The Songs" project, what happened?

Kevin,

Just proving a point. I don't really care what Jim's opinion of my songs are, especially when, to my ears, I know what crap REALLY sounds like.

I'm not writing songs to please Jim. If I was, I'd really be in trouble. lol

As far as people making submissions on Blazetrak, if they're nowhere close to the bar (and I mean NOWHERE close), then they really have no business sending in submissions in the first place. For people like that, I'd tell them to save their money and go spend it on something else.

Nite,

You haven't walked in my shoes, so you can't really presume to know what I have and haven't been through.

We can agree to disagree though brother. Nothing wrong with that. I respect what you do and I would appreciate it if you afford me the same respect.

Persol note - Mike I will do the "songs" track after my new release with Yann. First things first.

Secondly - You know yourself Mike, that I have sent your material to the best people I know.

Once, I did it without your permission. I did it because it was right. I emailed you afterwards, and everything was cool. Why woudd't it be ?

Like you, I have some great contacts, have worked with brilliant people, but SO WHAT ? I make sure that the people who have broadcast quality work here on JPF, are represented on the major databases, ( think News Corp ) but again, SO WHAT !

Contacts don't mean jack sh*t. The work simply isn't there. It's all a Lottery Ticket and we all know it. Why try to pretend ? It's exceelance which will make the day, full stop.

I'm not going to wrangle any more with some one who is jumping up and down and is playing pretty princesses. The real world is getting up at 3 am, and BY GOD, they better be worthy of broadcasting.

cheers, niteshift

Hey Greg,

Pleaae don't give me the "walking in your shoes" stuff, because it just doesn't cut it.

Geg, you haven't even seen the start of this industry. Get real. Grow up.

Sorry to offend.

cheer, niteshift

Note ; Post edited for language, for which I appologise.

Have a good one Nite. I'm done here.

I don't mean you any harm Greg, and i wish you all the best.

I'm just over bullshit.

cheers, niteshift

Nite,

Sometimes the day ends at 3 a.m. At least it did for me last night. Long day of writing and recording. Two new tracks for my library. Tracked vocals for another artist. Many phone calls throughout the day. Plus working on the database for my library website (almost finished, probably some time later today).

While I've not used Blazetrack, I don't have a problem with their system - from my very limited view of it, it reminds me a little of TAXI. People tend to love TAXI. However, TAXI doesn't give video feedback.

I did use TAXI for a short time - against the advice from Brian. There were good things and not so good things about it. In the end I wasn't unhappy, but Brian was correct in his warning to me. It had nothing to do with the quality of what I do, but everything to do with the fact that I am the artist and not really writing music that fits other people.

Which is why I won't track down services like TAXI or Blazetrack. I don't hold anything against them. They're just not for everyone. I think Ott's assessment of it is a very good one. I've done similar things. All of which is beginning to pay off in spades. Eventually it's going to help some people I know as well, cause I like to help my friends.

The world's idea of success is way off base. It equates fame and fortune with success. Most of us would be better off ignoring that nonsense. A bird soaring in the sky is success to me. Writing a song is a success.

Blazetrak isn't unethical. Just a guy trying to make a buck. Whether he offers a good service or not is up to the consumer to decide.

Greg I understand your disappointment at me not liking your song much.
But my short critique was free and probably spoke more frank truth than a few hundred bucks spent with Blazetrak. You are trying to buy a dream.....they are selling a belief that dreams might become reality albeit indirectly and by implication so both of you are happy.....sadly few dreams come true. I agree with Nite but would not quite go to the extremes of bluntness and language.....the only way to get ahead in this business and earn true respect from peers is to learn the craft and learn the business.....not just hang out and write lyrics with boy bands.

I agree with a lot you say about buying a dream...it cannot be done. However for the record I do not hate everything I love great music....I hate bad music that includes most pop and boy bands etc. I also hate how the industry works or should I say does not work in as much as the naff acts seem to get acclaim whilst the truly great acts get little or nothing. That is a product of a sick society. Because so many people condone such things and some encourgae them somebody has to make a stand and put in words what most people just think.

That's a little brutal! (ha, ha) The point you may be missing is that maybe Gregory really likes that type of music, has a blast writing it and wants to keep doing it. Therefore he needs to get into those "circles" to be successful. ... and if he really likes it, who are we to judge -- even if we don't see the appeal.


I hear where you are coming from. I liked that Airplanes song -- until the guy started rapping. I just don't get that. Early rap was the street poetry of the ghetto -- now it is soulless. But in the end, we can't stop pop music nor should we try. It is a big world with lots of choices.

Kevin

He would do better and write better lyrics and perhaps learn how to handle the music writing side as well if he mixed and learned from real musicians who write real songs.....sorry to be so blunt.

Oh man Were you do start with that? lol
Get ahead in this business? What business? Greg's the one here doing business. And he has learned to work with his peers, and he does, and has learned the craft and a craft.
I don't know if it can ever be explained softly or clearly that writing a POP HIT SONG is a craft and it is a TREMENDOUS business effort. My goodness how easy is that to see?

For those who do neither to obsess about the subject is mind boggling to me. I always feel I should have a real reason to complain or bicker. Those reasons usually come from me trying to death to do something and others not making it happen.
I understand the doubts and the realities of dreams and broken dreams all to well. It doesn't mean you should try to kill the dream for others even if it's over for you. That includes everybody.. I'm talking in general here.
Again screw me, but anybody who wants to make a list of heartbreaking opportunities and try to place it next to mine LOSES!!! I'll bet lungs on it.

Yet I never make the kids who come here feel like that, Never encourage them to be a hater. Someone especially who calls themselves a lover of music and an artist should always be that first. I never DOWN there music meaning the new young artist they listen too to them. Of course we show them other great stuff from the past. And we love it when they respect that even if they don't like it (yet) Or get it yet.... So they respect us just like we do them. And there 12 YEAR OLD little girls! lol Hey Oh What's a matter wit you guys?

Even if you've been through alot and are beaten to near death in this field. Don't you remember the excitement? The joy and the feeling of EXTRA great pride and purpose that something you love doing and have dreamed about and worked so hard on was being considered to be put out there for the whole world possibly.
Doing it in just to do it in the first place is a GIVEN. So throw that talk in the trash can

The excitement of waiting for that phone call, or the conversation you actually have with someone who could make your goal in life happen... DESPITE the goal! It's the point that matters.Sharing the enthusiasm and the frustration, the disappointments the almosts and the success with those who worked with you. And those who UNDERSTAND how much this goal means you, no matter the goal. Remember the feeling of being young and alive, that anxiousness of call for a girl or boy, that first date, first kiss. That's what your music should always be like impossible as it actually is, I know.

The feeling of putting that American Dream into reality, Mom here's that house I promised, I know you were proud of me anyway but... Kids your future is set... "HEY bozo's from the old job especially the boss and those harsh kids back at school I TOLD you's I could do it. I believed in myself and it was NEVER ABOUT THE MONEY OR FAME. If it was I would have gave up 10 years ago.... lol

Some folks are content watching the Superbowl others just want to be play in it ONCE! Despite what year it is or who's playing now, what's wrong with that?

All the best.
Great thread believe it or not!

Jim, Niteshift, Kevin, and everyone else who has an issue with this concept or model, just answer me one question. If the person you admired or respected the most in music invited you to audition for them for a potential gig, job, placement, etc. and it was on your own dime to get to where they were and you were given 5 minutes to make it or break it, would you or would you not go? Its a simple yes or no question.

Yes

.... and the full answer is Yes -- if I thought I had a decent chance at being successful.

Yes.

And the reason is, because they INVITED me, not because I PAID some third party to get me there.

The music industry, what's left of it, has so little pride anyway. I won't be a part of the crumbs that are left in the biscuit barrel.

cheers, niteshift

PS - there is no such thing as the 5 minute pitch. It does not exist. It is an urban myth. In reality, it's more like a 2 hr chat fest of like minds. Would you invite someone into your project, and play the 5 minute producer ? Again, this rubbish is coming from LA LA land. And even there, the 5 minute pitch doesn't exist in reality. It's a learning tool, in order to be brief and concise.

So the issue is that you are paying us, not that you are paying in general. LOL. You will pay an airline $500 but wont pay us $75 to give you the same opportunity. Hilarious, but I guess you have your "principles"

And what you are failing to recognize for some reason is that when a Pro decides to use our site to accept submissions, they are INVITING you by opening themselves up to the public and willing to take submissions AND respond to everyone of them.

And sorry to burst your bubble, but no one is gonna sit around for 2 hours to have a chat fest if your 5 mins isnt good enough in the 1st place. At some point you have to make a first impression which is what leads to more interaction down the line.

I just sense a huge amount of bitterness in your comments. Its as if the biz has done you wrong and you dont want anyone else to have a shot UNLESS they take the long road that you seem to have traveled.

When your idea of “the music business” is so screwed up that you think everyone who works in it is nothing short of a crook, then perhaps it’s time to look in the mirror and ask yourself, “if I worked in the music industry, would that make me a crook?” The answer is simple. Unless you’re doing things of a criminal nature, you’re not a crook and neither are the legitimate people who work in the industry who have built their empires and fulfilled their dreams.

Where exactly is “the music industry” located? For some, they would tell you the industry is in the west somewhere near the heart of Los Angeles. Others would argue that the genie in the bottle rests in the mid-west where the cowboy hats roam at large. That place is Nashville, the land of guitar strumming, gun toting yee-haws sitting in droves on benches overlooking Lyric Street from their porches. Or, so the picture would appear in the minds of those who dream of one day resting a rifle of their own on their laps whilst strumming a beat up guitar they owned since childhood.

Whether “the music industry” is described as Los Angeles, Nashville, New York, Orlando, or some other place across the pond, the truth still remains that there is a misconception about what the definition of the world of dream makers should be. Whether you’re writing and/or performing pop music, country music, rock music, or some other type of (pick your genre) music, they all have one thing in common. It’s ALL music.

I wasn’t going to respond to this post as there are some who would prefer to attack the validity of what I do rather than admit to themselves that I might actually be fulfilling what I have set out to do with MY life, not theirs. I don’t have a problem with other people choosing to perform in cover bands to make a living. I have no problem with people playing in coffee houses, empty to near empty bars, or singing about the last drop of a liquor bottle they nursed during a lonely night of melancholy solitude.

Yeah, I do have friends who are in boybands. So what? They’re not the only friends I have and to presume I am sitting around writing lyrics with boy bands all day, every day, is laughable. I’m certainly laughing! HA HA HA HA

I was a college radio dj before I left for four years to serve in the United States Air Force. I am sure there’s a few on this board who would find something about that to complain about. Save your breath. I’m sick and tired of the bitterness seeping out of people who think they have the right to tell me how I should conduct myself in a business THEY aren’t even in.

I’ve worked my ass off to get somewhere with my dream. Ask Brian. Ask mike caro, jody whitesides, and others who have watched me from the beginning. I’ve been a member of JPF since 1999. I was a pompous, know it all kid back then with NO experience in the industry who wrote mediocre lyrics at best back then. Since then, I’ve grown in experience, both in the industry and in life, and I have earned the right to have a say on some things. Telling me I haven’t even begun to see what the industry is like is an insult to me. I’ve sat in the living room of one of my best friend’s houses in Los Angeles during New Years Eve as members of the band Chicago and Toto jammed together until the clock struck midnight. I’ve rubbed elbows with industry executives at parties in Los Angeles, at showcases, at red carpet events, and I’ve been in the studio as a guest of a major producer who wrote some of the biggest classics such as “Joy to the World” by Three Dog Night.

I’ve built a great writing team and we’re working with industry professionals who have our back and who have been part of some of the biggest hits in the past ten years. So don’t presume to tell me I don’t know jack [naughty word removed] thank you very much. I know what it’s like to work day and night trying to get somewhere. I’ve spent hours in the studio working on material and projects in the hopes that it will propel me forward in my “career”. I’m not just a lyricist. I wear many different hats. I’ve helped connect people to professionals who as a result, have gotten the attention of executives at Sony, Universal, Atlantic, and Island Def Jam. In some instances, those turned into actual signings.

I brought up Blaze Trak here as a genuine desire to show people that if they don’t know where to go to make the connections they normally would NEVER make, they could check this new company out. I didn’t create this thread so you guys could crap on the industry, disrespect other people (including myself), and hang me out to dry as if I am some insignificant piece of laundry you can discard at will.

So put your “bullshit” meters away and show some damn respect. If you don’t want to use Blaze Trak, don’t, but shut the hell up so others can decide for themselves what they want to do.

That is all.

Sorry to interject....

But YES I would pay $500 to fly down on there invite, but NO cause they ain't NEVER gonna give me that invite! I can't reach em to even get it.

That's the WHOLE point, Blazetrak at least has an invite, to offer you, so you can show your face at the party and mingle with the other invites. Not a VIP but an invite the rest is up to you and your work.

--------
Note : the other invites are the other submitters and the faces may be on video.

Once again we are seeing fluff and nonsence, in order to support your weak business case, which has no merit.

Me ? Pay $500 because someone wants to work with me ?

No, that's not the way it works. That $500 is paid for from the production budget.

Ever sat in a prodution meeting ? Ever done a production budget ? Quite clearly not. They take hours, often with little achieved.

If your boys were gainfully employed, they would be doing what they love to do, and they wouldn't see the light of day, even to listen to one track of music.

They're clearly not producing music. That's because there is no money left in the cookie jar.

So, what do they do ? Sit and listen to Joe Bloggs and charge them $75 because they have tripped over the odd famous person from time to time.

The real people in the industry are working at their chosen profession. And they're working damn hard just to keep it afloat.

I'm now being laughed at, and called "bitter".

It's a very well known phycological tactic used by scam artists..... I'm sorry, dream merchants,.... to further line their pockets.

When I get invited into a project, it's just that. An invitation.

Do you think in your wildest dreams, that decision makers i.e. those with the deep pockets, are ever going to take a chance on some guy they don't know, from a 5 minute pitch ? ( which don't exist ) Perhaps you should watch more Seinfield re-runs.

Your boys are "opening up" ? What a load of rubbish. They are opening up their empty wallets, for the gullible to fill them.

Please offer you services. Just don't expect old and exhausted industry folks to agree with your tactics or your motives.

cheers, niteshift

PS - you may attack me all you wish. I'm over it.

Very rarely has anyone ever thanked me for going out of my way to extend a helping hand and for putting my reputation on the line for them because I thought they had the talent and ability to go somewhere. Actually, most the time, people take it and don't look back. So can I blame the professionals on blaze trak for putting a price tag on their time? Not one bit. Because at the end of the day, if they're not gonna get any gratitude from many of the people in this world who have the me me me attitude, why shouldn't they get something out of it? If I were in their shoes, knowing what I know, I'd put a price tag on my time too.

Well, for me in particular, this has been a real eye-opening thread. I paid attention to the principals making comments, and started to wonder: which ones have credibility? So, I went on Greg's site, listened to "Dating Game" and "Fly Away". you know something? They were both really good. I got commentss from Mike Caro, so I went and listened to his stuff. Was quite frankly blown away. Then I went on Niteshift's site. Listened to "Synthetic Salsa" and "You Do It Right". The latter in particular had a wonderful production (panning techniques I'd never heard before), gospel and synth mixed beautifully, absolutely delightful. A couple of these posters said they would listen to my stuff. After hearing their's, I had a moment of panic. These people are really talented. Still, I am proud of my own tunes, and am flattered that they will go listen.
So, here's my point, sort of. Niteshift thinks the Blazetrak concept sucks. Mike Caro & Greg disagree. They're all damn talented, way more than me.
I think that a shot -- five minutes -- at one of the proven, successful "professionals" on the site is entirely ethical. If it works, great. If not, at least you have been shot down by the best. And you even have a video to prove it.
Ott

Time for a writing session on skype w/ my co-writers in Australia, so peace!

Now all i can is that you are flat out ignorant and have no idea what you are even talking about at this point. I promise that you could only dream to sit in the meetings and sessions that I sit in and have sat in. If you want to learn more about me and the projects I have been involved with, feel free to check the credits of some of the biggest stars this planet has ever seen in the last 10 years...The Beyonce's and Usher's of the world...Last name is Harrison in case you were wondering.

If "My Boys" were gainfully employed???? That is the most laughable statement of this whole thread. "My Boys", meaning the clients and Pro's that accept submissions on Blazetrak won over 15 Grammys just 2 months ago including SONG and RECORD of the year. "My Boys" have made more $$ in music then some small countries have period. "My Boys" are executive producing songwriter shows for Bravo, "My Boys are on American Idol every week as EXPERT judges. "My Boys" are on celebrity apprentice on NBC right this moment, "My Boys" don't know the famous people, they ARE the famous people. Do some research before you say:

Paul Worley
Rodney Jerkins
Evan Bogart
Lashawn Daniels
Jeff Haddad
John Rich
Bryan Michael Cox
Chuck Harmony
Wally Wilson
Makeba RIddick
Rich Harrison
B.o.B
T.I.
Steve Rifkind
and about 350 others

are NOT gainfully employed, or NOT producing music, or NOT real people in the industry, or DONT have any money left. Man you sound silly.

There is no point in even trying to reason with you because you dont even have a clue about any of this or the people who are involved.

Good luck to you all and thanks for listening.

Take Care,

My bad.

Your crew are wonderful. They are the best in the business.

They are very famous people and highly talented.

I am silly and will go away now.

cheers, niteshift

Good idea.

What a whacky thread man Nite we love ya but is there alcohol or pills involved in your day somehow?
Whoa! are u alright?

Really one of my first questions here was why be so concerned or worried or worked up or anything over something you want no part of and will have nothing to do with? Does not even pertain to your work or goals in some peoples cases....

Peace
Mike

Don't know who Ron is. I haven't read more than a couple posts that mentioned something like hundreds of dollars to pay someone (perhaps an intern in reality) to listen to your music?

I only endorsed Taxi because I went out to California in person and spent time there investigating it with 100% open access to everything. (It was an offer made and I accepted and followed through). I then wrote an article about it (this was over a decade ago.. actually over a dozen years ago) and it was long after that they became JPF sponsors in case anyone questions how we do things. So I will not endorse anything like this because I know very little about them in particular. But I do know a lot about OTHER sites which have come and gone who charged ridiculous sums of money for famous (or in many cases has beens) to listen to their music. I do not endorse that business model because I've never to this point seen it done honestly. Does that mean that no one working with the long list of scam companies that came around before ever made a solid connection? Nope. I bet more than a handful did. But the odds are in lottery ticket range that any Joe or Jill could send something to such a site and have any benefit at all. Is Blazetrak different? I can't tell you that. But the business model is great for them and horrible for everyone else. I can't see the value in getting a critique (that supposedly comes from a famous connected person and not their errand boys and girls) for that kind of money when you can pay 20-30-40-50 dollars to get really deep critiques from a wide range of professionals with track records of helping developing artists and who you can email directly or call on the phone or see in person easily and regularly for that kind of money.

If someone wants to prove otherwise to me, I am always open to finding good people at good companies doing honest work with value to the customer (our members). I visited Derek Sivers at his home in the deep woods of upstate NY before he moved to Oregon to check him out. I got a similar insiders look at Disc Makers as well. I met face to face multiple times with BMI and ASCAP folks before we ever partnered with them and spent dozens of hours speaking with Ourstage before we got involved with them for 18 months. All have proven to be long term quality companies who treated our members great and in each case, AFTER we had checked them out and in most cases after we started working with them on some things, they also became JPF sponsors. That's how honest people endorse companies and create legit sponsorships in my book. I am batting 1000 so far over the past 15 years, never leading our folks astray.

So if they want to talk with me directly, I am easy to find. But they'll have to provide clear and present benefit and return on investment for me to endorse their model or them. An honest company would have no problem with that and would welcome and hope for it.

Brian

Greg,

I'll remind you that I spent a large amount of hours speaking with you and working hard to get your head out of the sand. You've acknowledged that many time here (I guess we could dig them up if you need to be reminded). When you started to do the common sense things we discussed, you started to find some success, in small but growing bites.

Now the company in question may be 100% legit or 100% scam, I have zero knowledge of them as people nor do I have reason to dig deeper because we have no business together. But you and I have had a relationship that spans more than a decade and I haven't ever led you down the wrong path. On the other hand, you've hooked up with some questionable people on occassion and gotten burned. No idea if this is the old Greg or new or a mix of both, but I do hope you're putting some of what we spoke about into mind when bringing a company here to present to our members who trust our site to give them the truth and to do all in our power to make sure they are not being led astray. I hope you've done all the due dilligence in this case before bring any company here, regardless of their model. Are you stating your reputation behind these folks? I put mine behind every company I bring forward. I take a methodical approach towards each to avoid smoke and mirrors or even what they can do for me personally until I as settled on who they are, what they bring to the table and if there's real value to the massive 50,000 members we have, plus the 10's of thousands of non members who come through these boards.

If you are serious about these folks and you want JPF to take them seriously, then you'll do the work needed to provide the due dilligence involved in checking folks out. You'll also put aside personal gain and look at the bigger picture. I get offerred thousands of dollars per month from companies frequently who I turn down even though we could do a lot of good with the money because those companies either don't pass the test or WORSE, consider themselves above due dilligence and skepticism. When I see that happen, all red flags possible are raised high into the sky for all to see.

If you've brought this company to our doorstep, I hope you've done the work already and I hope you're ready to do it again if you want me to get behind it. If you all disappear than I will have my answer.

Brian

Brian,

Ron Harrison is the brother of Rich Harrison (grammy award winner for the song "Crazy In Love" by Beyonce). He is one of the founders of Blaze Trak.

One of my good friends, Andrew Fromm, is on their advisory board and several relevant industry professionals are featured on their site right now accepting submissions for various opportunities. Everything BlazeTrak promises, they deliver on. I have seen this personally as I have used their service to find out for myself whether or not their promises are worth its grain in salt. It is. I sent submissions to Brian Richardson (manages hit rapper B.O.B) and Brian personally responded in a video response to me. He liked what he heard and he gave me his contact information and as a result of that, doors have been opened that otherwise were shut.

Now, I could have gone through other connections I have and had them talk to Brian Richardson on my behalf, but by using Blaze Trak's service, Brian Richardson knows who I am directly.

There are several other industry professionals on Blaze Trak and they work with various major mainstream artists in the industry. There are even writers/producers on Blaze Trak who have written/produced songs and worked with Justin Bieber (who is currently the biggest popstar in the world right now).

BlazeTrak offers access to the industry professionals. They're not selling dreams, they're not promising record deals, or anything that would offer up a red flag for a scam. I have spoken to all 3 of the founders on several occasions and have gotten to know them. They're stand up guys and easy to talk to. I am sure they would have absolutely no problem speaking with you and answering any questions you might have.

Would I stake my reputation on them? Based on my experiences with them and what I have seen first hand, yes. I would.

I didn't introduce them to JPF. They found JPF months ago. I found their original post at that time and I reached out to them to investigate what they were about because I was curious. They're offering a service and they deliver. If after 30 days the customer doesn't get what's promised to them, they give a full refund of the credits used back to the customer.

OPEN LETTER RESPONSE:

Dear Jim, Inquiring JPF Members and Potential Blazetrak Clients:

Blazetrak was founded in November of 2009 and has to date accepted thousands of submissions for more than 350 Blazetrak affiliated professional experts. In each case, the professional that receives a submission is chosen by name by the customer. There is a detailed bio, picture, and in most cases a video from the professional to identify who they are, their accomplishments in their field, as well as any current opportunities they may have available. Each submission request from our professionals is a detailed description of what they would like to receive, and what each customer will receive in return. Each submission is replied to with a video response (that must be streamed LIVE into our servers because of the technology we have in place) so there is no question who is reviewing each submission. There are a few cases where a video response will NOT be rendered because of the vast amount of submissions that may come in for a particular request, which would be a daunting task for our professionals to undertake, and could diminish the quality and messages of the video responses. In these cases it is SPECIFICALLY stated so, and that submissions may be viewed by representatives of the person. All of this is guaranteed to our customers to occur within 30 days of their submission date (unless another time frame is specifically stated due to schedules). If our obligation is not met, the customer will receive a full refund of the purchased credits used to make their submission. (Credits are the Blazetrak currency that we created for use on our site). If there is a technical error, or the person who was submitted to is not the person responding in the video, a refund is also offered. Our organization has lead to early success stories for several aspiring artists, musicians, songwriters, producers, etc., and a few have provided us with testimonial videos that can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/blazetrak#g/c/A1522629B2E850CD These stories are the driving force behind fulfilling our corporate mission of “Getting You Closer”. As a company, we pride ourselves on our corporate professionalism, industry expertise and the valued reputations of our affiliated partners. Further, we welcome the feedback we receive from our users daily.

An example of such is the open discussion on this Just Plain Folks General Message Forum. This message board is an open forum for public information sharing amongst JPF membership, for which our organization and our leadership is also apart. The discussion and feedback on the quality of services rendered by potential, current, or prior Blazetrak clients should be encouraged, whether positive or negative.

In response to the validity of our organization, we take this matter very seriously. At Blazetrak we understand that integrity is the premise of all business relationships. As such, we are very interested in responding to JPF founder Brian Whitney’s last post regarding the legitimacy of our organization both as members and as businessmen.

To start, be it duly noted that Blazetrak has never solicited Just Plain Folks, or any of its members, or employees, to provide endorsements whether paid or in-kind on behalf of our organization.

Furthermore, to date, our organization has not received an invitation from nor extended an invitation to Just Plain Folks or any of its affiliated employees to meet with our firm to discuss the operations of our organization, our value proposition, and the ways in which it may be of value or benefit to your membership.

We welcome this opportunity and, as members, the opportunity to publically hear more about the due diligence process your organization uses to evaluate organizations it is willing to endorse or partner with to support its mission of increasing opportunities for its membership. More specifically: your selection process, your evaluation criteria and rating metrics, and the scope of relationships (financial sponsor).

We gladly except the opportunity to respond, publically or privately where proprietary or confidential corporate information is not infringed upon or jeopardized.

We look forward to receiving your response to this public invitation and the subsequent findings.

Sincerely,

Ron Harrison
Partner/ Co-Founder
Blazetrak
www.blazetrak.com

Lastly, We are just 3 guys who bust our tails everyday trying to establish relationships with individuals, companies, leaders, and decisions makers who the general public can't, won't, or just doesn't know how to access. We do this so the public doesn't have too. We spend our money to fly across the country to meet with them so you don't have to...we negotiate with their attorneys so you don't have too. We spent 2 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars creating a platform to make it easier for you to reach them. We train them on how to use our platform. We do all the work and heavy lifting for you. All you have to do is supply the talent they are looking for.

Ron H.

Personal Note to Sub,

Unfortunatly, there are no mind altering substances in my body. Either legal or otherwise.

I'm just a wacko ! Actually, knocked out after a long week.

The reason I get annoyed at this kind of thing ? Because it's everywhere, and doesn't look like it's going to stop anytime soon. I'm just sick and tired of it. Just look at this thread, which started out "Blaze Track in the Wall St Journal". What rubbish.

It's just removed from reality.

Reality is all those people who work hard in this industry every day. Like you, they work their socks off.

But wait ! If you pay $75, you don't need to work hard, because a famous person will discover you. All will be well. And they will do it, because they are really really nice people.

It just makes me sick that someone on the bottom of the food chain who can't afford $75, will be suckered in to recieve a video critique which means absolutely nothing. And they've learned nothing to boot.

And it's wrapped up in the guise of a "service". This is not a service. A service is a mixdown, or laying a track, or promotion or marketing. Real things, with clear and tangible and measurable results. This kind of thing is just parasitic.

I'll resume my medication now.

I am silly and will go away.

cheers, niteshift

PS - This is a personal note to Sub. Please do not reply.

Nite,

1) I'm the idiot who titled this thread "Blazetrak in the Wallstreet Journal". Sorry if that annoyed you. After all, I'm the one who started this thread.

2) Nobody asked me to start this thread and nobody's paying me to do it either.

3) I'm not running promos or anything of the sort. I started the thread of my own free will.

So if you want to be pissed off at someone (God forbid), be pissed off at me. Blazetrak didn't ask me to talk about them here. I personally believe in what they're doing and I don't believe for a second that they're "parasitic" as you claim.

4) Personal notes are what private messages are for. If you weren't looking for responses, you would have responded to Sub privately, which you did not. Just an FYI.

No one begrudges you your hard work in everything you've done in your life. I know you don't think much of me at all, but nothing was handed to me either. I worked hard for everything I've built. I had to learn through the school of hard knocks a few times.

In this matter regarding Blaze Trak though, I think you're wrong and I am sticking to my opinion even if you do not agree with it.
Hate me, make fun of me, whatever. That's up to you.

Cheers

No worries Greg, we'll catch up for a beer one day.

cheers, niteshift

At the risk of repeating myself and going round in circles as Greg would suggest I will say this again. I have been in the music business for a very long time and have been exploited by promoters, agents and many other people who try to make a quick buck from dumb musicians. I know lots of other people in the music business who have similar tales of exploitation. The industry is full of creative minds who are ready to exploit any niche they find and part the unsuspecting public from their money. So the buyer beware and if it looks too good to be true it usually is principles are strongly ingrained in me. I have a rule that people pay me to hear my music not the other way around.
Now Kudos to Ron for being so up front and honest about his company and its objectives. It will remain to be seen whether his business model is worth investing in. I have no knowledge of him or his biz other than what has been said here or what I gleaned from an online search.
That said alarm bells do ring. I ask why top execs and successful producers would want to listen to and critique songs from people whose only qualification to submit is having the cash to pay for it. To me it sounds like a nice cash cow sideline earner.... nothing else. Now you know and I know that the vast majority of stuff submitted will be of the poorest quality and not worth the bother of listening to. If truth be told a complete waste of time and money of those who submit this material and waste of time for those who have to provide a critique if it was not for them being paid to do so. Now you know as well that a fee for submission will not deter the hopeless wannabes if anything it will be a nice carrot a guarantee that their stuff will be heard by some famous person who could make THEM famous. To illustrate my point AI has many thousands of delusional people queuing in all weather for an audition. Most are completely tone deaf and have never even sung in public. But they take a chance. At lesast that audition is free but if there was a charge they would still pay(surprised Cowell has not thought of that angle to exploit even more money from sad folk)
So logically what is the motive for these top pros to listen to thousands of submissions which will never make dollar one...MONEY...nothing else.
I am of the opinion that great talent is easy to find...so if these guys genuinely want to find new talent to promote etc..they can find it...without the hopefuls and hapless having to pay for an audience.
I wonder how much unsolicited stuff is reviewed or even listened to.
So all that said on the face of it I think that this method of working and this business model is unethical.
If I approach anyone to ask for work or for an audition I would expect a simple yes or no or free audition. If a person says yes you can audition but you have to pay me £500 for the pleasure. I would tell them where to get off. They have no interest in anything other than making money.....and even they were interested in me and a contract at the end of the audition is this the sort of person anybody would want to do biz with.

Ah just checking the thread and personal messages before I force myself to go to sleep. During bouncing off this thread I have been editing,scrubbing & mixing for the last 8 hours on this one tune. Mixing is crazy for me, analog with very little automation.

I certainly don't mean to pick on you my friend but your typing behaviour is troublesome and worrying to me. I just can't follow your thinking at all

Just a few quotes...
The reason I get annoyed at this kind of thing ? Because it's everywhere, and doesn't look like it's going to stop anytime soon.

What bro? it's not terrorism. I don't see this kind of offer anywhere actually, that looks half for real. Very few places I know of do anything like this. I wish there were more. How is it hurting you? or Taking your money?

But wait ! If you pay $75, you don't need to work hard, because a famous person will discover you. All will be well. And they will do it, because they are really really nice people.

This makes no sense bro, if you pay $75 you don't need to work hard??? You need to be a lot more clearer man And that comment saying "Contacts are nothing" or something like that. It's scary talk, and not because it's true. Because if your straight and not drunk then it's scary. If it wasn't you, I don't think i would be up trying to relax you.

It just makes me sick that someone on the bottom of the food chain who can't afford $75, will be suckered in to receive a video critique which means absolutely nothing. And they've learned nothing to boot.

Ah, now there's something. Unless it's you that are you worried about not somebody's, some strangers $75 bucks? What if that same person your worried about drinks that $75 smokes it or snorts it.

Stop thinking, stop talking then apologizing and just read some of what it actually offers and what has been said. Them let it go from our mind dismiss it like it never existed and relax.

Read!
WHAT video critique? It's a SUBMISSION. They do not do what paid critiquers are doing. Listening with NO HOPE or mention of using your song...

Do you need an inside story to make it all seem real? I'll make one up using my common sense, (It's all I have) It's pretty easy to figure out. Be right back with it.

I'm not defending Blaztrak, really no need to they haven't done anything or said anything to be defended for... I don't know these guys from Atom but YOU guys are making it very hard to defend you. lol Save face and walk away from it.

You's are like lunatics, what the heck is going over there?

Sorry Mike, in this case Nite is making more sense than you.

I think (i think - since I can't really know) that what Jim and Nite are saying is that: It doesn't matter how honest BlazeTrak is, the business model itself is going to take money from folks that are just not ready to submit. It's not BlazeTrak's fault, it's a buyer's beware world.

It seems to be mostly aimed at the young rap/hip-hop/pop wannabes and if you know anything about local scenes, there are hundreds, thousands, 10's of thousands of kids with multiple CD's/mixes of their rap stuff (with tons of sampling) that will be the next big thing -- if someone can hear it (dang -- just go to soundclick). These folks have no "realistic" chance -- it is just a lottery ticket purchase.

Kevin

People pay to hear you IN A BAR, and only sometimes if there's a cover charge.
NOBODY pays you for your songs until you give them a reason to, that reason is the dream you's are peeing all over here lol
$75 on strings. If you make music for real you SPEND MONEY FOREVER!! Hopefully you get some from it to spend....

But anyway here's an imaginary story so we can go to sleep and have nice dreams

Jim wonders WHY? how can this be... yes I thought about it too
and here is what my mind imagined as a possibility using all I have , Common Sense....

1- Who cares what there reasons are, and if there reasons are to make money then WHO doesn't want excuse me NEED to do that?
What goes on behind the scenes is of no concern to me as long as I'm getting a fair shake.

2- Fact - Rodney Dark Child produces and works with Lady Gaga
Fact - He responds to submissions through Blazetrak
He even endorses them... Why?

3. Well lets think maybe Ron's brother Rich who did "Crazy In Love" great pop tune by the way I think her best and most creditable one... works with Beyonce he works at the same level of the business with Rodney, maybe they even know each other. Hmmm!

I would think he has friends in the business No?? Now he starts his own company an idea he and his brother had. Why? to make money? No! why start a business to do that? Geez I hope so?
To find material to make more money? Geez I hope so again..
How do you make REAL money with songs? A- You are the writer or artist B- You find the writer or artist...

Okay so now some friends get involved. When your in the industry your friends often are too. Making sense?

And just maybe these guys had to struggle and work hard to get there. And thought of a way to help others who might deserve a shot, a chance. So it's like a really unique cool thing to do
and we ALL have to make money so what? Who works 100% for free except for maybe Brian

Why would well known Producers like Teddy Riley who i have always had respect for go out there and put there rep on the line
to scam? I mean the way word travels around from hand to hand on the internet and twitter and all, nobody wants to be caught up in BS.
So let me me find out if I don't like Teddy any more lol you guys don't worry about it. lol

I'm a lifetime New Yorker and 100% Italian NOBODY nowhere on the planet fools me. And if there not from the planet they better not come equipt with eyes or a tongue. How do you spell equipt?

Relax guys, no harm has been done... Expect for maybe chasing professionals away.

Hey Sub,

Kevin pretty much summed up my viewpoint. Thanks Kevin, perhaps I am half sane, rather than half crazy. Who knows ?

Jim asserts that this unethical. I happen to agree.

The target clientel for Blaze Track is mainly rap, R&B and beat makers. Most of the target group, I'd put in the 14 -24 yr old age bracket. They're kids with dreams and little resources.

And who is taking their money ? Grammy award winners worth millions, supposodly. Is this what successful people do ? I thought that those that caught a break, pass it along to the up and coming from the next generation. They seek out talent, not charge them $75 to listen to their music, 99.99% of which, won't make the grade.

cheers, niteshift

Sorry Kev, no way! Not a chance.. he's not making any sense at all, I'm actually worried about him. Drunk people talk like that It's totally destruction mode!

And yeah so the industry is full of kids who were rapping on the street two weeks ago... So should they have packed it in as well?

How does that make any sense? If somebody SEE"S and hears what a producer is doing in a studio with Gaga then goes into there bedroom picks up there Roland MPC and starts creating beats and gets DAMN good at it. Doing the same thing,, maybe at the same level or better...
Then he contacts the guys, HE CAN DO THAT? WHAT? and takes a chance the guy will see himself in the young upstart.. Or maybe he'll see dollar signs. Boy there's aloy WORSE that kid could be doing with $75 bucks man.

I mean really, AGAIN and AGAIN why keep obsessing over something you's want no part of, and can not relate to in any regard. Why isn't Joice Marie here tearing into Blazetrak and all this. Cause she know it's got nothing to do with her and she not gonna waste time and make herself look like a amateur in the process.
I like to use Joice's name she's a sweetie and never gets mad at me.

You would NOT believe how your attitude makes you look to others.. not you Kev anybody's...
I nave been around both pro's and amateurs my whole life and even in the same day.
I have spent time with professional people with things on the go. They are usually postive all the time accept for kidding around.

I recognize it easily.. They talk and sound like Greg does and Jody does. The way Donna did when she came on here. It starts with not being a hater... a downer. At least don't make everybody think you are..

Why go through all this explaining over and over...
Well hopefully the peekers will read it and get something positive from it maybe. it's 7:am where I am so I gotta get some sleep.

It's all good, but really if you want no part of this I'd say leave it alone. We'll let you know how it went

Peace

Mike,

I don't think BlazeTrak is a scam -- in fact, I think it is a pretty cool idea. Ron asked the question would I go to nashville and meet with Paul Worley for 5 minutes -- and I said yes. Now why wouldn't I spend $132 for the same opportunity through BlazeTrak?

Mainly, if I had a face to face meeting with Paul, it would be because I had been "vetted" in advance. Through contacts, someone else would have put their professional opinion on the line to get me that appointment. So, if I had the real stuff, I would have a so-so chance of moving forward via that meeting (ha, ha). (plus I could do a lot of other things while I was in nashville).

If I had phenomenal stuff, BlazeTrak might work for me -- but considering that most songs are artist/producer/team written, my chances would seem to be as big as getting hit by lightening. Of course, going out in a thunderstorm and holding up a metal rod would increase my chances.

So I don't think BlazeTrak is a scam, but no one should get indignant or call us fools or haters for questioning the business model. The name calling is beneath you.

Kevin

EDIT: Plus this whole thread started out as Gregory saying "Look, BlazeTrak is in the Wall Street Journal -- how's that for credibility?" ... and then come to find out it was a press release on a web site. It was a mistake by Gregory and shouldn't reflect badly on BlazeTrak -- but it was a misrepresentation, nonetheless.

But if you don't think I should post in threads like this, because it makes me look bad or look like a hater, then maybe I won't anymore.

Kev not only am I exhausted I'm dizzy in this chair. I'm going around the clock here at 7:16 am. So please try no to take offense. Those other guys have the thickest skin i have ever encountered so i'm not worried about Jim or Nite. Well Nite does concern me..

Oh man,... Listen Paul Worley or nobody he knows will EVER invite you to fly down and sit with your music.. EVER! Because you/WE have NO CHANCE of reaching him.... That's the whole point.
Now your chances are impossible, so you submit to him through Blazetrak now your a one in million shot.

How good you are or hard you work and what you invest in yourself takes those odds DOWN...
What's there to discuss... Try it or don't try it.

Sorry for the rudeness, If I could shake him physically I'd do that instead...

Man I cant even type....

Not YOU Kev, the other guys. Isn't that obvious? I just talk in "You's and I's and We's ...your not that. You do not down everything to do with success today. And you did not give the visitor on this thread the amateur impression.

What If Ron said Paul W look at this link for a minute on this site...
Guess what he would think? You'd be alright Kev Hey maybe you could still get that invite....

EDIT!!
Nobody called you a fool, and they weren't questioning they were attacking and insulting. And I wouldn't blame the guy for never coming back... Even if this is the way of the internet talk in general we ain't kids and we aren't supposed react that way imo I think we are better than that. And especially when one of our own posts the thread, for whatever reason.

GOODNIGHT!!!

Hey Sub,

I thought we were talking about the ethics of a business model. Obviously not.

I am silly and will go away.

cheers, niteshift the amateur

Well there Ethics have been fine so far no problem at all. Ours on the other hand looked like 12 year old girls on Facebook or an episode of Jersey Shore

I must leave now, stay silly and stay away!! this time LOL

PS - dont worry about the evil company coming here to take us.. Brian took care of it like usual. And anything that should worry us here he's got the head for it totally. Read those two threads of his and Ron's response.

All is well good NITE!

Sub
"Oh man,... Listen Paul Worley or nobody he knows will EVER invite you to fly down and sit with your music.. EVER! Because you/WE have NO CHANCE of reaching him.... That's the whole point.
Now your chances are impossible, so you submit to him through Blazetrak now your a one in million shot."

So if these guys would NEVER ask for submiisons EVER from people they did not know....then why oh why are they accepting them from people just because they have a few hundred bucks to tip them?......They want the money and to hell with the submission. They will put in their two cents crit and say thanks but no thanks.
Mike GET REAL I am sorry to say this but you are being taken in with this hype and chance for recognition dream...if I only spend a few bucks i WILL BE GUARANTEED to be heard by a top exec they will think my music is top drawer and I will be made. How can it fail.


As Nite says it would be far more ethical if these guys accepted submmisions for free from people who have been vetted as having potential. Blazetrak could vet these people first and send the succesful ones on to these execs then take a payment/commission from earnings they receive as a result of a succesful audition/submission. They put something back and do not waste time sifting through crap meanwhile Blazetrak operates ethically and still makes money.
More important the poor sucker wananbes do not have to part with any cash upfront.

Boy you guys,

You guys are on page 4.

Lots of good point on both sides.

it will be up to the individual songwriter to choose what is right for them.

Waiting to see what the results come from those using this company, JPF members. That will be interesting, don't you agree.

Petra

Sorry Big Jim. As much as I've come to like you, and as much as I respect your history, you miss the point here. So does Nite.


As you yourself have stated, the industry made and makes all kinds of money off the talent...and the unscrupulous make lots of it. Think of Fogerty and CCR, for example.


And think of how records were funded. The "industry" basically lent the money to the talent, who, if there was cash flow from their records, paid for every last cent of the production, distribution, publicity etc., and often started record #2 "in the red" even if record #1 was a smash hit. So much for thinking the talent should get "a free lunch"


Great deal for the industry. They made lots of money legitimately using one sided contracts, and more through creative accounting whereby the talent also absorbed industry overheads. Then again, they also lost lots of money on acts that made it nowhere...despite paying out lots of money to try and make it happen.


So even if the studios paid for flights in, demos etc, you can bet your bottom dollar it eventually came out of the pockets of the talent. The difference is that those who made no money were released from their labels, and those of lesser talent yet were exploited by the sharks...and EVERYTHING PLUS INDUSTRY PROFITS came out of the successful acts. Yes, the successful acts paid for the cost of failure, speculation etc.


What is happening here with BT is no promise or guaranty for success, just the chance to be heard by industry professionals. Full stop. End of story.


It is a well defined "value proposition" that makes no promise other than you will be heard and will receive feedback from an industry professional who is not working on behalf of some record company, but entirely for themselves when they contract with you and BT. You are paying for their time because no one else is when they listen to your stuff. So there is no chance to "put in on the books" and recoup it later with interest and overheads from the talent.


But IF you happen to give them something they like and can use, well that's the sound of another door opening. And cheaply done in my books.


Under the old model, this meeting you were invited to would have cost you everybody's time, all variable costs including travel, the noshing meals and drinks etc...plus interest while these costs were on the record company's books. AND because this was done via a signed contract, all was fine....that is if you signed. If you did not, well, they wrote off the cost against their profits from successful, acts and they still made money...but chances are if you got the meeting they were interested.


If you could have gotten the meeting without an invitation, it would have come out of your pocket right away. Either way you paid.


But the world and industry has changed, and all kinds of things are now possible via the net. I applaud the innovation, and I find that NOT charging or paying for legitimate services from credible people unethical.

I don't understand this thread at all. I have seen this before and it always gives me the same feeling.
A few years ago I went after a company who came here with an offer. I can't even remember the name. A couple other folks joined in as well. As it turned out the company was legit but the damage was done. They left and never came back. I decided then I would never do that again.

Over the years I have watched the members here spend Thousands of dollars on demos and other music related endeavors which they thought would lead them to the success they crave. They pay for critiques and travel to Nashville and attend workshops and meet the "People" who will help them in their career. They belong to NSAI, TAXI, BMI, ASCAP, And any number of other organizations that they believe will help further their career. They Order CD's and put their music on the internet in the belief someone will listen to it and make them famous. Most of the CD's will become coasters.

I have too, and you know what? It's all the same bullshit.
I have listened to criques from amatuers and professionals and they always say the same things. Including the "Professionals" endorsed here.
I have heard the list of overused rhymes we are not supposed to use recited by everyone I have talked to including the ones I paid. And the ones endorsed here.
You know what? Without fail every one of them has then played me a song they wrote that has one of those overused rhymes I am not supposed to use. EVERY ONE.

Just about everyone here says they don't listen to the radio because the music sucks.
Well guess what? If you want to hear your song on the radio you better learn how to write songs that suck just like the songs you hear on the radio. If you want success you will have to do music that sells. Yet I see the same people who whine about the crap on the radio making the same music they have been making for years that will never see the light of day.
Then a company comes along that might, and I say might, be able to lead you in the right direction and they are always attacked.

I don't pay for critiques anymmore. I don't pay to belong to any organization anymore. Why? Because I have figured out that I will never be able to create music like I hear on the radio and that is the only kind of music that sells MILLIONS of downloads or even thousands for that matter.

Everyone is laughing at Rebecca Black. Well guess what? It has over 100 million views on youtube. You can say it only has those views because it was terrible but people are also buying it on I-tunes. SOMEONE likes it enough to pay for it. When is the last time anyone on this site sold 10,000 downloads?
Everyone says the company that made the video is a scam. Well I really doubt Rebecca Black thinks it's a scam.

IT IS ALL A SCAM. If you spend your money on music in the hope that you will ever get a song on the radio it is a SCAM. You have no better chance than winning the Lottery.
But you know what? If you don't spend money on it it is the same as not buying a lottery ticket. You have NO CHANCE.
Does anyone believe the lottery exists to make you rich?

In the end I'd say everyone here has spent money on their music in one way or another and you know what? If it hasn't brought you success it was a scam. It separated you from your money and you did it in the belief you would be the next big thing in music.

If you think Blazetrak is a scam don't use it. But don't belittle it for charging money to do the same things you have all been spending money on for years.

Ron Harrison, First, I tip my hat to your promotional instincts. You couldn't pay for the kind of publicity you've gotten from this long and weird thread on JPF. And you've already picked up new clients from it.

I've already said before I see nothing unethical about your business model. It's another way of making a buck in the entertainment world. People throw money at their dreams everyday. Look at the business state lotteries do. And music demo services. Caveat emptor.

But I've got one question. When you offer a guarantee that a customer will get a video response within 30 days are you offering to return CREDITS or their money back??

That's something your new customers might want to be clear about before they part with their hard-earned cash.

Well, in case Paul Worley does stop by, here is my pop teen / crossover song that Justin Beiber would do if he was trying to go country: Girl, Can I Be Your Lover? (ha, ha)

I would have posted the Thunderbird Motel Duet, but that could never be sung by anyone as young and pretty as the Lady A folks or Steel Magnolia or ....

Kevin ya big ghermer ! You're smart though mate, you may have saved yourself $75.

Ok, I'm taking my medication ( first beer of a six pack ) May I rejoin the conversation ? I'll be good, I promise.....

cheers, niteshift

Well, boys and girls, I was finally able to decide on which song to submit, and I've just gone and done it. All things being equal, I hope to be able to report back within 4 weeks.

I might mention that the song is theatrical, and is more geared to film and tv. Hence, I submitted it to a professional who's on the lookout for placements in that area. Her bio and credits are impressive. I'm glad of the chance simply to have the song heard. If she has something positive to say about it, or a tip she can give me in terms of direction, that will be a bonus.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have no expectations one way or the other.
I've submitted, and now I'll forget about it until mid-June, by which time I'll either have had a response or not.

I chose to part with 50 euros ($72), which in the Netherlands is roughly equal to 12 packets of cigarettes. If I were a smoker, and had chosen the submission over the ciggies, I suppose I'd suffer, but as I'm not, I won't.

Donna

Donna,

I wish you the best and look forward to the feeback you get back.
Who knows...anything is possible if you try, right. And I know from your lyrics you are talented.

Petra

Good luck Donna -- your stuff is pretty impressive, so I hope you get a good contact out of it.

Kevin

Well done Donna, and I'm sure your feedback will be balanced and instructive.

cheers, niteshift

Kevin,

This is really gooood, it can be that crossover country...to me it can be for pop, really why don't you submit it?

Hey, now hooked up with soundclick and I have a tweeter account, I have just tweeted your song, trying to promote, whenever I can,
Hope it is okay...I think we should all do this once listening to someones song, well of course if we think it is good. It is all this tweeting, ytube, and forward songs on is how you get out there..I think more so than waiting for someone to go into sound click.

I am gonna do this for jpf songs, If I like them..best support I can give.

What about the rest of you guys, do you do this?

Kevin...I hope you get this recorded...sometines objective point of view from others is needed to make you realize you have somehting hear.

Good Work,,,,I am soooojealous.

Petra

This for some reason gets a lot of attention, why?

As I understand (I may be wrong), Blazetrack basically is a critique service, with top notch music industry professionals, and the USP (unique selling point) is the video responses. So far so good, right?

I guess the only real thing in question is how much is the video response is worth, and that's up to each and everyone to decide.

Personally, I have a hard time finding this competitive with say an organization like SongU http://www.songu.com/ , who offers a killer critique service for their members for between 5-10$ each. And they too have top notch music industry professionals, songwriters who's had million dollar hits, grammy award winning producers and top shelf publishers in Nashville and other fine places. And they are willing to follow up ect. How Blazetrack can compete with that, I don't know! That's why I see their prices as way too steep. Some others seem to find it's worth it.

Why will I engange in that discussion? Because JPF is not a board for free commercials and uncritical celebration of any commercial company there is (if that was the premise for these forums, I would not be here), this is a public forum for songwriters! So, I think the "stay out of our business" rhetorics from Gregory is out of line and out of place, no matter how viable Blazetrack is or not!

As I see it, Blazetrack is not a competitor to Taxi either, as there are no real opportunities at Blazetrack. There's just endless rubberband rhetorics that can't be held accountable for anything - if we like it we do, if we don't we don't. At Taxi you will find real people and companies looking for music for particular artists who's recording and looking for material, and music supervisors who's looking for specific music to use in their projects, whether it's for a game, a movie, a tv show or some other application http://www.taxi.com/industry.php . That's WAY beyond a critique service! Taxi is about real market opportunities for real songwriters, musicians and producers, right now. They can be held accountable for what they offer!

Blazetrack is a critique service (that's the only claim they can be held accountable for), and to my knowledge the most expensive one, I've come across so far. So, to the songwriters out there on a budget, I will just say that there IMO are many other, just as good critique services out there, also with top notch music industry professionals, just not with video responses.

And I insist that this is a viable discussion in these foras, unless Brian Whitney says it isn't, because it's not my impression that this is a commercial forum for Blazetrack. That they must pay for themselves, where they can push their own product as much as they like.

I hate when public forums becomes places where free discussion is restricted, and the real things get distorted by particular commercial interests!

Kevin,

You can hire me to do your promting of this song, okay.

What do you say.

Though I would want 50% of the profits..heeeheee Hey I have alot of expenses; airflights, new luggage, American Express Card, Babysitter for cats, Clothes, shoes, Hairsylists, Hotels , only 5 star, limousines...HeeeeHeeeeLoL

Petra

Magne

So you think it is OK to Promote Song U because you like them? But it's not OK to Promote Blaze trak because you don't?
Or am I misunderstanding?

I got one of those professional critiques from Song-U.
It was anonymous. I was told my song was great and I should pitch it to every publisher in Nashville.
I did
The ones that heard it said it was cliche and dated.

That was the last time I paid for any service.

But I don't tell people to NOT use Song-u. I do think they have a pretty good program.
But it isn't free.

Dang you caught me! I guess I am a bad person (ha, ha).

That is nice of you to say -- and thanks for twitter thing. By the way, I think you would make a good promoter!

Actually I don't see BlazeTrak as a song critique service, even though it may be. It seems like a "connection" service, where you are not promoting a single song -- but you are promoting yourself and how you can fit into the contact's future plans. At least that is the way I would approach it.

Kevin

EDIT: This has turned into a heck of a thread -- and I think BlazeTrak is holding up fairly well under the scrutiny. It is not for everyone -- but it may be for someone.

Kevin;

widget..you can cut and paste your song to twitter, or anywhere you want?
Unsure?

Also, your comment board is not in operation as wanted to put comment there.

Petra

I've heard from others about that comment thing -- The only place I can find to turn on comments is in the EDIT PAGE section -- I checked the place to say allow comments. So we shall see if comments are allowed now!

Kevin

Kevin;

Years ago, I was told I would be good in promtions, Worked for Boris Brott, orchestra conductor in Hamilton, well-known world wide, but very temperamental. He has that Billy Joel swiiming pool, piano..Great...niec to see how the rich live. The fans loved me and wanted to speak to me over his wife who was in chare of the summer music festivals.

If I believe in somone, such as you, I support them 100%.

Now, this song for pop, could work. Do you have contacts to submit your songs to publishers, artists, labels, producers.
Just curious, hope I don't sound noisey.

If the right hands...who knows.


Petra
Believe in this one for sure.

Actually,
For those that are seeking song material why don't they give an address and a time period they will accept material, say one month and then submissions are closed for that need. I can't see paying anyone to submit material period.

Actually, Magnus, while deciding on which song to submit earlier today, I browsed again through the site. It's not correct to say there are no 'real opportunities' on Blazetrak. There are in fact several professionals looking for specific types of music, songs, and production to work with and to place. They've also given the names of artists or productions for which they want material. This is exactly the kind of thing TAXI does. Except that TAXI - as I see it - is the 'middle-man', and you still need to pay a submission fee, whereas with BT you're dealing firsthand with the people looking.

Hence, it's inaccurate to claim it's only a critique site. Have you had a look at any of the videos made by people who actually did 'connect'?

Like Bill, I've also had critiques from so-called professionals on reputable sites like NSAI. I'm a professional 'words' person myself, and I can tell you that most of what they said was waffle and repetition, and probably took them all of 10 minutes to compose. I was a member of TAXI and NSAI for a couple of years (plus paid $150 extra for the TAXI dispatch service). I probably paid a good $200 just for dispatch submissions alone. At the end of the day I got zilch back in terms of response (not even a reason why something wasn't selected, because you don't get a critique back with 'dispatch' submissions). Altogether, I probably spent well in excess of $2000 for combined memberships and submissions. I stopped all that a year ago.

So I had no qualms about forking out a mere 50 euros today for the opportunity to have a particular type of song actually listened to and - presumably - to receive feedback on it.

And Kevin, yes, I think your idea of what BT is about is pretty close to accurate.

Donna

Well, I am Kevins Number One Fan, as first to place comment on board.

Also, you are on my fav. list...Kevin I will promote your best I can trhough social networking groups.

Petra

Ha, ha -- did I have any fans before? Well, I did have one that I never heard of. In one day, because of Blaze Trak I have doubled (yes, a 100% increase) my fan base. See, this stuff really works!

Kevin

Hey Donna,

Can I ask why you would submit for general consideration, rather than a specific project ? Just curious, and I won't bite your head off.

cheers, niteshift

Thanks for the question, nite.

Two reasons I submitted to general rather than specific:

1. I liked the bio and credits of the woman who expressly stated she's looking for music placements for films and soundtracks. I'm mainly interested in knowing what her response is to the song in general. While I'm making a point of not 'hoping' - and wasting energy that way - for great feedback or an outright 'connection', I do 'hope' that if she responds, she'll offer advice on what direction I might take with the song or others that I've written in that genre.

2. The people looking for specific projects are interested in genres other than theatre/film/tv, or in finding musicians, singers, or producers to work with themselves or to provide for specific artists. One woman is looking for singers/dancers to audition for a musical.

At the moment, it's really just about getting my feet wet. I liked the woman's credentials, and wanted to test the BT waters. Remember, I'm a lyricist, and thus far I've only worked with online collaborators. Hence, I probably have less to offer than a 'proper' band or artist.

Donna

Thanks Donna, sounds to be a sensible approach. And I've heard your work, it's quite beautiful and has a specific place.

cheers, niteshift

Thanks, nite. And what a kind thing to say.
I'm quite touched, in fact.

And thank you, Kevin and Petra as well.

Donna

Well that is it then I am going to submit my whole catalogue to Blazetrak...it will wipe me out at even $50 a kick but hey why worry I will be a billionaire by next week with all the extra revenue from my contact with Blazetrak and the top producers on their books will just love my music and chase after me to sing with them..I hope my pen does not run out of ink signing all those contracts....and I hope my throat holds out singing all those songs. BTW I would prefer recording in the UK but will go stateside if I can afford the fare...and the studio time....I will sing pop songs at a push but prefer real music.

You're most welcome Donna.

People do listen to your music, and it moves them in different ways.

My petulance on this subject has been taken many ways.

I've been called amatuer, bitter and silly to date. I wonder how many more put downs will be thrown.

Also, at the same time, I myself have concievably been quite negative to the plan on offer here.

Sub is really pissed with me, because I'm not playing the game. I'm supposed to be perky and enthusiastic. Likewise, I'm pissed with him, because I know the work he does is way above the standard required, and am annoyed that someone of his calibre is contemplating such a thing.

Professionally, we're not supposed to spoil the veener, and say that this is a bad thing.

Well, I do.

This bit was edited by myself. If you saw it, that's fine. Penis weigh ins don't count for much.A

And don't even ask me about the JPF internet choir thing, and being ablr to tie that up with the Barry tour. Wouldn't that be a hoot ?

And I do it for free. Geez I'm stupid. ( according to some )

Contacts are great, but of no purpose if you don't have anything to offer.

You've got contacts ? Really. You don't need contacts. You just need to do exceptional work.

But I'm not allowed to say that.

And I'm about one step away from being absoltely crucified.

cheers, niteshift

I won't crucify you - or anyone else - nite.

I simply do what I do in my own quiet way, and let people get on with doing - or thinking - what they do.

Donna

Thank you Donna, your poise and grace is something which is sadly lacking from this industry.

cheers, niteshift

Ah Jim, you're a funny lad.

How do I know insticly, that we would do great on a sound stage together. It would be chaos, but great chaos.

cheers, niteshift

Yeah Nite we would do good together...we like a drink we like a laugh are passionate about music and know when folk are getting ripped off. We offer a lot of stuff for free that unscrupulous folk would charge the earth for and we usually are too honest and outspoken for our own good.....we have both been around the block a few times BUT that is a good thing rather than a bad thing.....to go around the block that many times you need good instinct, skill, a bit of talent and skin as thick as an elephant's foreskin.
PS I have had second thoughts about blowing all my money with Blazetrak....after speeking to my wife and telling her what I was proposing ...I value my bollocks too much.

Hey Jim,

Yeah, sure would be alot of fun.

I'm going to edit my above post. I feel like I'm in a penis weighoff competiton.

I don't need that, and neither does what's left of our industry.

cheers, niteshift

PS - elephant's foreskin. I must remember that one.

Nite,

You're not being crucified. I'm the one facing the firing squad here. There's nothing wrong with going out of one's way to do something for someone else for FREE. Honestly, that would be preferable as long as the person on the receiving end of that FREE (whatever it is) has the goods to back it up.

But what about all the other talented people who has no one willing to go bat for them (even when they DO have the goods to back it up)? What about the people who live in timbuktu who have the goods and can't travel to an entertainment mecca? And even if they COULD travel, what if they don't even know where to start? Not everyone is good at doing research and making friends. Do they HAVE to use Blazetrak? No. Could they if they decided it was worth a shot? Sure. Does that mean they're being scammed? If Blazetrak took their money and ran, then yes. But Blazetrak is NOT taking their money and running. They're delivering as promised.

If you're willing to take thousands of submissions from people and air out your rolodex for ALL to tap into, for FREE, then by all means, go for it. Shoot, sign me up.

I'm just a guy who was curious about something I thought was worth a shot and gave it a try after looking into it. It worked for me, so why wouldn't I want to share it and see if there was anyone else out there who might think the same?

Am I a bad person for doing that?

And Jim, my music doesn't suck, even if you might think it does.

Tough Market Out There. Have to be connected somehow.

Petra

Paul Worley; Producer and Owner of Skyville Records, latest group

STEALING ANGELS

song released March 28, Paper Hearts

3 young ladys

Caroline Cutbirth
Jennifer Wayne, granddaughter of John Wayne
Tayla Lynn, Loretta Lynn's granddaugher

Have yet to hear the song myself;

FYI

Wrong!

Greg I never said your music sucked I said I do not like it much...BIG DIFF. I said it was just as bad or just as good as most of the other stuff I hear in the charts. My main problem is it is simplistic and lacks any originality and copies much of what has been done before...but most pop music IMO falls into that category. I look upon it as a phase teenagers go through.....like eating junk food and refusing a healthy balanced diet. They like junk food cause the taste buds are not sophisticated enough to appreciate more refined fayre. Same with music.

Fair enough.

BLAZETRAK CREDIT RETURN POLICY
Blazetrak does not refund money used to purchase credit packages. However, credits may be returned back to a Blazetrak user account if one of the following occurs:

1.) A submission has been made to a professional or contest, where a video response is indicated as the Response Type, and the video response has not been received within 30 days.
2.) A submission has been made to a contest, and has not been viewed within 30 days.
3.) It is determined there is a technical issue with the video response.
4.) It is determined the video response was completed by someone other than the Professional submitted to.
5.) A submission is declined for any reason.

Thanks, Kevin, for clearing that up.

No problem

I don't know maybe you have to live in the USA to grasp this thing.
Let me explain for the last time WHAT it is and HOW it is... from my end possibly our end.

I just finished up a song,in 2010 A song that took me four years to complete. I never settled when working on it, (Until I settled) that's how it got finished lol I paid three singers just to try to find the best one, that cost me hundreds of dollars alone.
Before I tracked it ALL the strings on the instruments going on it were changed, that cost me about $40.. One of them got a set up as well... another $75 bucks.

I saw the add for Blazetrak and went to check it out. Thought of every possible way, every angle it could be BS or hurt me.
Kinda to good to be true in a way, that is the scariest of all things But Nothing gave me the impression that it wasn't worth a try.

Okay NOW pay attention.

1- I looked at EVERY bio for every person taking a SUBMISSION.
Okay Note: the word Submission. NOT CRITIQUE. That word did not exist.

2- After noting that most of the pro's who were accepting material were in the world of Hip Hop, R&B Rap lastly Pop and Country. That limits me some.... BUT my new song is VERY soulful as is much of my music in general. So I took my song and made an alternate version. MORE WORK... I don't program drums I play them. so it was fairly easy for me to use modern R&B drums sounds on keyboard and play them live with my fingers. And to the metronome as well. So it is in perfect time.

3- Now that the beat was MUCH more contemporary it fit SO many more submission possibilities. Not only that but as a producer myself I noticed A) it gave the song a GREAT new feel. B) it fit the soft soulful female singer I used so much better. The live drums were conflicting with here style and sound. Okay after even MORE work.. I was set on my end.

4- I looked through the SUBMISSIONS requests again. This time I selected and narrowed it down to THREE people. All of whom my song could fit with. Then I called my long time fiend, former band manager, and a co-producer to come and check it out. Double check me.... See what & which he thought. He used to shop my band, then later my material to the majors in NYC.

5. OKAY next, we agree that there's one guy who's around our age
he works business wise with Neo who had a recent huge hit. Actually with the same title of a song that I wrote three years prior. But that's no big deal, what's better is his chorus hook the way he sings the words is the EXACTLY the same way I did. Two completely different songs!! But I KNEW I had a nice hook, so did a friend/acquaintance of mine who almost got the song on to J Records in 05. But he died before anything came of it.
You see how these things start to "connect"?

6. Okay anybody still with me? Now the guy TAKING the submission was older so he may relate even better to this song and me.. There is some serious old school stuff happening in my song including cool Marvin Gaye type guitar lines and very cool string arrangements... Bass lines that "Stand on there own" etc.. Plus the guy worked with Amy Grant etc... I did re-mix session work for her as well in the 90's.

The "submission" reads
"Looking for songs for Celica W. I try not to use full names too much folks people look themselves up ya know She is a 15 year old signed artist.
She recently had a song in the hit movie "Twighlight"
Here is a link to her performing it, and other footage of her so you can get an idea of what she's about.
PERFECT I can check that out. So we did... and my friend said the song is perfect for her and her voice and style.

I agreed... then re-read the terms & policy stuff. And joined up free, filled out my bio. The greatest BIO no, no way. Especially NOT in recent years.. But I did have Bruce Springsteen's former manager and the Producer of "Born To Run" in my house the night before. So I must be doing something right. lol

Had the 30 day guarantee on my $75 bucks the CHEAPEST cost so far on this song lol and least work too...

Already had in my mind the one thing they may say in rejecting it.. I KNOW they'll like it. It's good man, and it's CATCHY up and down all day long. Only it's content may be a tad off for the age and audience of this younger artist. Being someone who does and is capable of feedback for others for FREE! I recognize the troubles in my own work too. And I have NON MUSICIANS check me... as well.

But here's the key,,, ALL that work before hand. The song sounds GREAT.. Whether or not it's used for this kid or NOT this guy is gonna sense something from it and from me. WHY? Because I killed myself to get it that way, and if other people established in this industry have told me I was deserving of consideration
before than why not again? Like the VP of Epic & EMI for example.

He may think of me or the song for SOMETHING ELSE!! Maybe Amy Grant etc.. Whatever! I'm counting on my hard work and God given abilities/knack for creating catchy honest music with appeal & depth behind it to reach him. My "musicalness to reach there "musicalness" And I want and love the challenge as well.

The video is proof!!! It was heard and considered. And HOPEFULLY there is a constructive feedback in there as well.... Please!

Do you get it yet? I'm off for now.

Wishing you all happiness, there's worse things to worry about

Mike I get it always did...... do not particularly agree with it but get it.....we do things different here in the UK....so paying for people to listen to your "submission" is alien and totlly unethical. I still think that these top producers etc are in it for the money and any potential talent is a bi product but not the main objective......Ron says he has had thousands of submissions.....so do the maths. I posted a far more ethical way of doing things and still making Blazetrak money.....but that would be less lucrative. I think the difference in opinions are more down to politics and the ethics of business making money at the expense of poor wannabe musicians than anything else. Basically Americans seem to have different view on this than us over the pond.

Are you guys trying to set a record here for the longest forum.

Might turn out that way.

Can only wait to see what happens.

I posted this earlier today as a new topic, but then it occurred to me that it has relevance here. It's an example of what an established artist charges for his time. Here's the link http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704101604576248912488703724.html
Ott
p.s. Also a fun read.

Now THAT'S a Wall Street article

Haha yeah interesting article. It was definitely a good read. Haha Ott, you're awesome dude. :-)

John, I know, I know....Silly me. Next time when I create a post, I will double check the links before I call something an article or press release.

We all have our "blonde" moments sometimes right? I'm willing to laugh at my own idiotic mistakes too. :-)

Just another little angle on this discussion..lets all forget about the money side of things here,or the "ethics" or whatever,i have a question for Ron from Blazetrack...What is your "take" on the current situation the Music Industry is in at the present time,do you agree or disagree,with the technology at hand,downloading,piracy,file sharing,music streaming..etc etc, and that the present model as we know it, is going to eat itself,and Ron,in the real world what chance has an outsider(songwriter) breaking into the inner sanctum of the big clique,when the alarm bells are ringing loud and clear thru' their closed doors..as the "cake" is definately getting smaller,and shrinking daily,your an honest guy,give us an honest answer,in your opinion,how does the outsider get a piece of the ever diminishing "action".....Terry...

Greg: Just for the record, I'm a blonde. On the other hand, it could explain a lot.
Ott

Hey Greg,

Yes, folks do refer others work for free, all the time. It's called industry courtesy.

The business model here reminds me of the saying "That bloke is so sad, he needs to tie a pork chop around his neck to get the family dog to play with him".

Just remove the pork chop and get on with it.

cheers, niteshift

Okay.. I've again only read a few of the zillion posts here, so my apologies for not getting into the back and forth minutia.

First, and most importantly, I find the response from Ron quite appropriate and reasoned. Roughly 9 out of 10 companies shrink away from my consistent (i.e. I've challenged every company we've ever endorsed or worked with as sponsors just as aggressively) and we never hear from them again. Of the remaining 10%, about 1 in 10 of those pass muster for me. Again, my standards only apply to JPF and myself. I protect our brand fiercely and our integrity fiercely. I err on the side of over protection actually. But it has served us well.

In the few post beyond Ron's that I read, I will say this, Magne had the most reasoned response of all of them. Niteshift, who I disagree with probably more than I agree with is also pretty close to the truth. Mike Caro on the other hand is a bit shocking in his responses based on past issues with companies that show up here and what I know about him. I am not sure what is up with him, but sometimes folks surprise you.

For those who have compared the service, from what I know so far, to TAXI have it very very wrong. TAXI is an unbiased entity that provides a desperately needed service for industry to find worthy material from primarily disconnected nobodies in the industry. And that is not a slam on Taxi members at all. EVERYONE, regardless of talent, fits that description until they become insiders themselves. By saving time and effort of gatekeepers, who are the actual decision makers choosing material for direct commercial use, they improve the opportunities of those who are ready for an opportunity immensely, saving them from having to sort through brutal piles of garbage to find anything useful. Of course, if those gatekeepers were directly making 50-500 bucks a song to listen, even the wealthiest person is going to do it. At only 50 dollars a pop, you could do that full time and make over a million dollars just from screening bad music. Even if you cut it in half for video time, it would still be serious cash. At the high end, it's 10 million a year. Would I call that excessive? Yup. And ironically, should the rare quality submission show up, those gatekeepers would not only have pocketed all the previous cash, but then cash in even larger on the success of the song in question. Great work if you can get it.

Now here's a reality check: Other companies have done this same exact thing already. Remember Tonos? David Foster, Babyface, Carol Bayer-Sager and the lot? That was one of many, but when their private emails showing they were scamming everyone surfaced and they shut down, stealing membership fees from some of our members who had joined the day before and paid in full when they knew good and well they were closing down the next day and they refused refunds even to those folks, well it proved that no matter how large the name, it doesn't prove or even suggest honesty or propriety. When someone is that big, even such a public exposure disappears soon enough. So big names attached means nothing more than a bigger worm on the hook to justify oppressive submission fees. But I disgress.

Taxi doesn't get a piece of anything other than their measley 5 dollar submission fee which is only there as a minimal barrier to keep the same people from entering the same bad song to every possible listing. It's not a profitable thing for them and I have seen the books. Interestingly enough, TAXI is now bucking the trend of using middle man music libraries and going straight to the film supervisors etc. where the artist and/or writer who gets a deal keeps 100% of the money, not a share of it from a library. So not only are their fees tiny, the upside is huge. No giant submission fee. No giant piece given up to the "producer" or famous guy/gal who finds them through a mostly critique service.

But.. I will say that.. Blazetrak has my attention. I always take people seriously who do not get defensive, who are comfortable with their brand and their model being openly discussed (and even attacked) and not taking their ball and going home. At the least it shows balls and I find that a rare thing in the slimy world of our industry. (Most people only have balls once their power is firmly secured and they can bludgeon people with it).

As for whoever (Mike perhaps?) said no one works on behalf of the grassroots music community for free... that's a laugh... whose site do you think you're on anyway? I am a rabid watchdog for our folks and have put my actions where my mouth is for over 15 years. And 100% of the money we've ever taken in has gone directly back into JPF. So our sponsors are feeding our starving community of artists, writers and industry folks helping to educate, encourage and protect them, whether they know what's good for them or not.

Back to Ron: In the past I've hand picked some of our (according to our massive music awards program which screens more music than any other entity in the world each session) best talent in a variety of genres, and asked them to demonstrate what they can do for talent which I know is the top of the heap. After all, if they can't help those folks, what good can they do for anyone. If Ron is up for the challenge, I am happy to pick a few out in some large genres, perhaps Pop, Rock, Country, Jazz, Singer-Songwriters, Rap, etc. and see what they can do with/for them. It would require they waive the fees for the experiment and in return, I would publicly acknowledge any success stories they created to our membership, something that cost WAY more than their entry fees. At the same time, if they walk away, then that will tell me something as well. If they can't help some of the best among us do anything, then they can't help the average or below among us which would make promoting them a bit pointless to our entire membership.

Sound fair? Or perhaps they have a better way to do it? But if I choose the artists, at least I'll know the results are real and can tell a compelling story. And since the stuff will be top quality, it won't be a waste of time to their folks either and they might even make a lot of money in return. It also stacks the deck in their favor because they can twist any arms behind the scenes they want to make something happen and we'd never know the difference. That's far more leeway than I've given others. If they find success, I'll tell the story with all the facts laid out. And it won't cost them a dime. If that goes well, that can be the end, or it can be the start of a larger relationship.

Brian

Well, I feel as if I'm going to touch the third rail here. I see massive problems with this approach. I will concede to Brian the fact that he has spent the last fifteen years protecting the people on this site, and I admire that. But I, as someone fairly new here, find major problems. Brian:
1) Why should you be the one who "handpicks" whose songs should be submitted?
2) "It would require that they waive their fees"? Isn't this absolutely destroying their business model, whether you approve of it or not? The professionals on the site set their own fees (or credits, as they are referred to). Do you really think that they will agree to give free listens for the artists you pick out?
3) "It won't cost them a dime". Most certainly it will, if they agree to your terms. Neither Blazetrak, or anyone who works for them, will make a dime, much less a dollar, with your suggestions. Why would they agree to that?
I suggest that you let a few JPF members (which will include me) try them out, and wait for feedback. The odds are still the same as a lottery ticket, as a few posters on this board have already pointed out. Fact is, a few of us will pay for that lottery ticket, especially if it is music related.
Ott

Ott,

Brian is the founder of JPF. Why shouldn't he be the one to hand pick from the pool of talent he has complete access to? I think his experiment sounds like a very intriguing one and I would love to see the outcome of such an experiment. I hope the blazetrak guys share the same sentiment. Truthfully, I personally think they'll go for it. Why wouldn't they? They have nothing to lose from it and everything to gain. Brian has a great ear and knows talent when he hears it. But my opinion is only my opinion. We shall see. :-)

Brian what I said was the the total opposite.

Mike

I'm not the only one doing stuff regularly to help the community for free Mike, that's the point of my comment. I work with all sorts of people who volunteer their time to help JPF out for FREE. So you entire point falls flat. If not to 10's of thousands of professional industry people's volunteer hours each year on the awards (not to mention the overall 100's of thousands of hours donated by artists, writers and various people involved with music) our awards couldn't happen. ALL of that is donated time by people who make money in the industry who charge us nothing to help our community. Our mentors charge nothing. In the thousands of JPF shows (except the awards shows) we've only paid a venue 1 time to use their venue and sound system and people and that was only due to a mistake made by our local coordinator there. Our Chapter coordinators are also unpaid. Mentors do all sorts of things for free and few of them even provide services for sale they can advertise and when they do, they don't run or get ads in our newsletter like our sponsors, only a line when they write an article about what they do. I can go on and on. And that's just JPF. So please don't make comments when you have no idea what you are talking about. JPF isn't the only entity that gets big time help from volunteers. There's tremendous numbers of them out there doing what they can to help.

Brian

Ott,

Seriously? What third rail? Your comment is silly. If I am going to put my reputation on the line and the reputation of the organization I created and run, I think I'll be the one choosing who is involved. Now, if you'd like to share your experiences as well, go for it. I haven't stopped anyone from chiming in nor endorsing whoever they want. Put your name behind anyone you want and base it on whatever terms you please. I'll do the same thank you very much.

Do you ever think before you post such ridiculous statements? I mean seriously?

Brian

Waal, I've waited 5 Pages-Worth before adding My Pair of Pennies.

"You Get What You've Paid-For" seems a fair statement to make on Much of Life's Opportunities.

Blazetrak seems to be a legit "Opportunity" to get SOME attention-paid by Your Choice of Higher-Ups..and, of course, you get that Video-to-Treasure...back. NO Guarantee your material WILL go on to Bigger & Better Things..but that's Life..& the Way It Is with ANY of the "Services" that are now out-there.

TAXI cost more than the $75 or so Donna's sending BT for her First Submission..but..my guess IS..for Donna to get MORE out of Blazetrak she'll end up spending close-to..or beyond..the $300 I think TAXI Costs Annually. TAXI offers their annual "Road Rally" which..IF you're seeking Networking Opportunities, is a "Don't Miss" (though you'll have to shoot your own video..heh!)

And factor-in "Airfare to L.A." and "Hotel Accomodations."

Ditto for Brian's JPF Awards Show..(Tho I think the last one was in NashCity/Sorry I couldn't attend, but I've been rather impecunious the last 3 years.)

Considering how Expensive it HAS become to turn out "Finished Demos" I don't think Blazetrak's a Bad Idea IF you've Got The Goods. Mike & Donna & Kevin DO. (Greg & Big Jimmie, too..heh!)

Me? IF I ever get $75 "Ahead"..it's off to a chum's Studio to record a few more Demos..& maybe THEN I'd give BT a try. (I keep getting Better & Better Rejections..from Better & Better People Higher-Up...for FREE..so-far~!)

But..IF BT gets your "foot in the door" somewhere for a mere $75, CONGRATS..It Worked for YOU..DO Tell Us MORE.

(I'll remain a tad-skeptical of comments like Greg's "They were impressed by me"..but any "I got 2 of my songs Signed & Recorded-BY" stories..yep...sure wanna hear some!)

Good Luck, Caveat Emptor, & Best Wishes to all,
Stan

Wow! holy smokes I feel like I'm in a Twilight Zone episode..

I have no clue what your talking about Brian, in my world I paid you a 100% TOTAL compliment. Meaning exactly that you do alot for a lot of people, a lot of work for FREE!

?

I think the exercise Brian suggests is pretty pointless and am puzzled as to why he suggests it....even if Blazetrak go for his proposition it proves very little other than confirming Blazetrak do exactly what they say they do. They give feedback from industry pros for a fee....and a very large fee at that. It is simply a cash cow aimed at exploiting the egos of thousands of artists and songwriters....people who generally have well above average egos in the first place. How can it fail?
This whole business model is based on getting many thousands on an ego trip submitting and the income generated purely from the entrance money is potentially staggering. As Brian pointed out it represents little value to folk who's stuff is not ready or is not up to required standards. That will probably be just about everyone who submits.
So sending a few handpicked artists material even as freebies will only prove that the service they offer is as described....not that this biz model is ethical or appropriate for the vast majority of people who would consider using use Blazetrak.
If anything the Brian Whitney/JPF seal of approval will only encourage more hopefuls and hopeless to waste their money on this expensive ego trip in return for short critiques/reviews or whatever they want to call them. This represents little value for the money spent.

The chance to be heard by a top pro is a huge carrot and many delusional people will waste money and go for it even if the price was doubled. That is my whole ethical concern. I have no doubt that Blazetrak do everything they say they do...that is clearly not my issue.
Perhaps a look at the profit accounts and facts and figures of how many people actually gained finacially from this introduction to the top people would prove more fruitful into establishing whether or not this is a valuable worthwhile service.

Interesting idea, Brian. I am not sure how it would prove or disprove the validity of the BlazeTrak model, though. The only way to judge BlazeTrak is to see "if they do what they say they do". After that, it is mostly personal opinions about their business model.

Once the connection is made and a video tape response is received, the chance of something happening has nothing to do with BlazeTrak. ... and it might be a year or two (or more) before any results become concrete. The only thing BlazeTrak can hope is that the user does more submissions and tells their friends about it.

In any case, the thread has been a good one and I think BlazeTrak, as people, have held up well enough. It has had enough twists and turns, misunderstandings and hurt feelings to last us a while.

Kevin

Kevin,

You make sense of all of this. Just wait and see if they fullfill their promise. So, those who have used it, hopefully will share their experinece, I am sure they will.

Petra

All kinds of avenues to scratch your way to the top; I remember when Alan Jackson met Glen Campbell at an Airport and handed his tape of his songs. This is the way he got his break.

Also, another story, though the names have eluded me; a songwriter parachuted from a plane on to the property of a singer, landed on his property to give his tape of his songs. The singer saw this from his porch, he was cool about. End results don't know if he got anywhere with the songs.

Petra

This whole thread certainly reveals a lot about the range of issues that exist around independent musicians and their attempts to get somewhere with their ambitions. The fact that something like Blaze Trak exists tells us how desperate people can be to make that vital connection to the right person in the right place on the right day, presumably with the moon in the correct quarter.

The simple fact is that so few real opportunuties exist that a service offered to anybody who can pay is a waste of money - even if a few people get something from it, all that proves is that talent and hard work pay off, not that Blaze Trak have anything to offer.

It will be interesting to see if they respond to Brian's suggestion (although, I'm not sure what it would prove) - I still very much doubt it would convince someone like to use the service offered, not because I would doubt Brian's judgement (from what I have read at JPF over the years, that is not open to question) but just because the whole idea as outlined by Blaze Trak just sounds like every other scam out there.

Dan

HI Again, Mz P!

It was Kris Kristofferson who piloted a HELICOPTER into Johnny Cash's Yard..to make his Pitch. (He'd actually been tryin' for 2 years already to get a cut...) AND..It worked..JC took him seriously after that! (KK had spent some time in the Army before headin' down to Nashville..& had been to Army Jump School, Rangers, & Flight School...so the Helicopter Thing was easy for him to do.)

Legend has it that Paul Williams got HIS break when he cornered Barbara Streisand in a bathroom & made her hear a few Cassettes.

Hey, "Whatever-Works"...(& I get a big kick outta all those "Higher-Ups" who invented the term "Gherming"...when THEY mostly got THEIR breaks..by doing Exactly-That.)

Back to Da Boards...& Best Wishes,
Stan

Hey, Stan

Well, thank you, I forgot who it was, KK. Paul Williams...love him, never knew how he got his break, though haven't heard anything about him for years. BS, she is a perfectionist! What a Voice to die for.

I find this stuff interesting, how the big shots/higher ups got started.

Petra

Paul Williams is ASCAP's President and Chairman if you didn't know Petra.

John

First and foremost, I just want to say thank you to this whole community for having an open dialogue about Blazetrak. All of your comments, both positive and negative will help us tremendously to improve our product and hopefully provide better services for you.

Brian,

I appreciate your offer, but I will decline. Here is why:

#1. Music is 100% purely subjective. Who you think is the best has no bearing on what I think, or what any of our pros think (even with your massive music awards program endorsement). All great music is not commercially viable, and vice versa, some bad music is. With that being said, who you hand pick could really mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. (and i say this with the utmost respect to you and your accomplishments).

#2. Our goal is not success stories and that proves nothing in regards to our model. Yes we love success stories and we want them to happen as often as possible, but we don't offer that. We offer an opportunity to present yourself to people you admire, respect, and/or would like to work with (or you just really want their opinion or advice). Hopefully you present something to them that will move them in such a way that they want to continue to interact with you outside of Blazetrak). This is our value proposition. You either think that is worth paying for or not. If you don't, then there is no need to use our service.

#3 We don't need your endorsement for success stories. Any success story that happens on our site is an endorsement in itself. We don't need you, or anyone else to validate it. When someone makes a submission on our site, then finds themselves in the studio with the same exact person they submitted to a few weeks later, all because of Blazetrak, it is already undeniable. We were the catalyst that made it happen and that is the fact. Maybe they make a hit record and make millions of dollars, maybe they show up at the studio and completely choke, leave and never hear from the person again. That part of the equation does not involve Blazetrak. You used our service to get in the door, now its your job to STAY in the room.

#4 People from your membership have already used our service and will continue to do so (while paying our fees) if they feel it can help THEM with or without your blessing, and I am sure they will come back and report their findings anyway. You run a great organization and I commend you on it, but at the end of the day, people will make their own decisions on what is best for them, and whether something can be of use to them, regardless of what anyone else says or thinks. I am willing to bet on that side of the human character.

#5 I am wondering if you asked Taxi, or any other companies you endorse to give you a few freebies to prove themselves. Doing due diligence to learn more about a company or organization is one thing, but to ask for a handout so to speak and dangle your 50k members as a carrot just seemed a little off to me. But hey, this is just how my crazy mind works.

Again, I have the utmost respect for you and what you have built here at JPF. My intent for coming here was not to win you over so you could endorse us to your membership. I came here to tell you and your membership our story, and be completely transparent in regards to how we operate and what we offer, then hope that you would find it useful. I feel like I have accomplished my goal.

Ron Harrison
Partner/Co-Founder
Blazetrak
www.blazetrak.com

Well that was quite clear.... they offer nothing but an introduction to a top pro......for a huge fee....
That is totally unethical IMO and my view of Blazetrak has not changed one bit.
It is like paying to jump the queue or paying to meet someone and get an autograph....totally wrong and not in the spirit top pros should operate.
Well Ron Kudos for being transparant...I can see right through you and you scheme. It sucks.

"#5 I am wondering if you asked Taxi, or any other companies you endorse to give you a few freebies to prove themselves. Doing due diligence to learn more about a company or organization is one thing, but to ask for a handout so to speak and dangle your 50k members as a carrot just seemed a little off to me. But hey, this is just how my crazy mind works."

Yet you do not think that dangling the carrot of a connection with a top pro for cash is not "a little off" that IMO is double standards.
For the record I was not keen on Brian's proposal.....but he maybe made it as a tester in the knowledge that he knew you would never agree to it. I hate it when people think only in cash terms and forget about being fair and honest and ethical.

And I'm cool with that. On to the next.

I kinda thought you would be......no shame.

Big Jim: I am having trouble wrapping my head around the "unethical" part. BlazeTrak does what they say they do -- offer personal pitches to an industry pro for $xxx. Now can some poor sap spend his life savings on this with no hope of success? Yes they can -- but "sick" people sit in front on the TV watching Home Shopping Network and buy all sorts of stuff they don't need (and can't afford). Does that make HSN unethical?

I don't care too much for the business model, but I don't know if it is unethical.

Kevin

I just don't get you guys. Blaze Trak is offering a service. If you don't like the service don't use it.

There are so many ways people in the music business take advantage of Wannabe writers and artists it is almost laughable.
I am not going to name names of people or companies that are part of the overall picture but people here and on other sites use their services.
Somehow some people want to have verification that they are credible. That's a laugh. Credible at doing what? Taking your money? And that is exactly what they all do. TAKE YOUR MONEY.

I don't care if it is a highly respected successful songwriter or a Demo service. They all do the same thing. TAKE YOUR MONEY.
Are there success stories? Of course there are. Every once in a while someone gets a cut or makes a contact that gets them signed or just gets a gig as a result of these Experts taking their money. But we all know the chances are about as good as winning the lottery.
So you guys dumping on this company for doing the same thing that Demo Companies, Songwriter workshops, Songpluggers, Critique service, and every other "business" that is in the business of separating you from your money are just spinning your wheels.

Every one of these companies are in business to make money. The fact that some don't meet the standards some of you have set is irrelevent.
I am sure some truly care about what they are doing and do want to help just as some are in it JUST for the money. But in the end they all Take your Money.

I like to hunt. The hunting industry has all kinds of schemes to separate the hunter from his money. Better and bigger guns. Better baits and scents. Books and Videos to teach the latest methods to get that big Trophy Buck. They offer Seminars and Hunting Camps, all designed to make you a successful Hunter. The latest and greatest Camo Clothing. They even sell Camo underwear. The deer can't see the underwear. But every day some hunter walks into a sporting goods store and buys Camo underwear.
Why?
He believes if he has that camo underwear it will make him a better hunter. That he will get that Trophy Buck or even a State or World record. Getting a record Buck can make you a LOT of money.
In the end very few hunters ever succeed at anything more than an average deer that is just like every other average deer that has been harvested.

It's the same in every industry out there. The Music business is no different.

And there ain't a damn thing wrong with any of it. It is business and a person can spend their money on Demos, or songwriting critiques just as they can spend their money on hunting crap or fishing crap or any other endeavor they choose.

Kevin ... Unethical...here is a definition.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/unethical
Work it out. I thought I made my point loud and clear.
So Bill just because there are loads of folk who use an unscrupulous business plan to take advantage of wannabes we should all turn a blind eye and accept it. Do you not think that wannabes who perhaps are not the best judge of what is legit and what is a scam or what is just a way to be parted with money should be protected and these scams exposed or at least the pros and cons of the way companies operate discussed so they can be more educated in their decision making capabilities.
Kevin a lot of hype and advertising is unethical....like the ones targeted at kids for overprice toys at xmas...now they know their parents cannot refuse them and peer pressure will get the sales so it is straight hype to make kids think something like a cheap plastic toy is something else. Two wrongs do not make a right. You cannot justifiy that a company is ethical because it operates along lines that a lot of companies operate which is inside the law. There are companies that offer loans at outrageous loan shark rates....legal yes.... unethical totally. There is something to be said for shutting down companies who operate within the law but in a totally UNethical manner. http://www.quickquid.co.uk/adw-quic...uid&gclid=CKfU3MSRn6gCFQoa4Qod3GvgHQ

Q What is the diff between illegal and unethical.....?
A. about five years.

That said we SHOULD expose bad business practice rather than patting them on the back as Bill maybe wants.

Brian's experiment would have been an interesting one, but Ron does raise some valid points I have to say about music being subjective. Based on what what he said in his post, I can understand why he declined.

At the end of the day, those who want to use Blazetrak, will. Those who don't, won't.

I think this subject should come to a close. Everyone can debate until the sun no longer shines and it won't really go anywhere. Just let the matter rest.

Brian, perhaps you could lock the thread to prevent any future posts.

Thanks John,

I didn't know what happened to him.

Petra

Big Jim
I don't want anything to be done one way or another.
I don't think it is my place to decide if one business is ethical or not.
I think Demo companies that charge $1000.00 to demo a song that doesn't stand a chance in hell of ever getting cut is unethical but the consensus here is it is perfectly OK as long as they don't promise it will make you a star.
But there is an entire industry built around that model.
Bullshit.

I seem to recall you supporting that business plan.

I agree that too much has been said already there is more than enough opinions to make it clear to people the reasons why they should or should not use Blazetrak.
Ron made a few interesting points and most of these points confirmed that he was more interested in making money than promoting or helping up and coming musicians to further their career. .
I wish him all the best but this kind of "dating agency" approach inspires me with little confidence. I suspect the list of potential "dates" he has on offer are not really interested in finding an ideal partner they only want the money paid to them for going on a date. Is that not what prostitutes do?

I respect everybody's opinion and I hope that no one holds any hard feelings toward anyone after all is said and done. I know some of us "butted heads" on an issue here and there, but at the end of the day, a good debate is a good debate? Right? :0)

Gregory,

I thought it was a fair enough debate with enough information that a reader can see opposing viewpoints -- and then make up their own minds.

Kevin

Kevin,

I concur. :-)

It's Over? I can't believe it.

Petra

Move along, Petra. Move along everyone. There's nothing to see here. It's all over. Move along.

Waiting for Brian's Post, maybe in the morning? Have to se what he says.

Petra

Hey Mr Blazetrack ( Ron ),

I really must commend you. You are upfront, well considered and well spoken. You believe in your product, the ethics behind it, and don't promise anything more than you claim.

Brian's offer really was a little lop sided ( sorry Brian ). Brian would be one of the guys in the world who would have screened more music than anyone else on the planet. Therefor, you would have recieved the absoulute best. It's a no brainer that which ever producer was picked, that they simply couldn't deny the talent on display.

My own personal problem with the business model displayed is that it is in no way a reflection of ( my own ) reality in the music business.

The vast majority of the music world are just hard working professional people, whose incomes and job oppertunities are diminishing by the minute. And I'm talking not only of the talent, but of the roadies, the techies, the producers, the lighting guys, the mastering engineers, and the list goes on.

For a company such as Blazetrack to put foward such a proposition to professional industry people, is in my opinion both immoral and unehtical. For the real people, that do the real work and the heavy lifting every day, it's almost obscene. It preys on the weak, and it preys on those who don't have contacts and mentorship which they deserve, to rise higher in their field.

In my lifetime, mentorship and guidance was given freely. I know what I know, because of better men before me that gave me their time freely, because they saw something in me. Why ? I don't know. Would I "sell" my knowledge to a younger man ? No ! I give it freely, because that act repays the knowledge given to me.

The real world still works this way. You can't buy contacts. You develop them through what you do.

So, all that I wish to say is that although Ron and his company work in a certain way, I won't be using their "service". If others wish to, that's fine.

Of all the "new business models" presented here over the last few years, I do concede that Ron has been straight up and faced the criticism in an upfront and honest way.

cheers, niteshift

PS - Ron, no one needs to dangle carrots here. We have our own fair share of industry professionals, Grammy, Emmy and Tony Award winners. And we do it for free. Because that is decent.

Well said Nite eloquently put and I agree 100%. I have worked my way up from very humble beginnings and I know some great guys...ALL of them will give their time freely and help others entering the biz....it is nice to be nice and remember the folk who helped you by helping someone else is a philosophy lost on some of these guys across the pond from the land of the free. How can it be land of the free when they charge for everything...LOL I also think it is obscene and unethical to charge greenhorns for advice that they can get elsewhere for free....and as for paid intros...well that is just a casting couch without the sex a creative take on the oldest profession in the world.... the term "pimp" springs to mind?
The saddest thing is that some people actually defend this scheme and think nothing is wrong with this practice. Says a lot about their morals and ethics....or lack of them.

Yes indeedy. I would.

I'm only halfway through this whole thing but I have to say COME ON!! I've never seen something pull out so many Grouchy Gus'. You've got two of the most pro on the whole board - Sub and Greg {Greg doesn't get his fair shake here from most of you either, IMHO, but he IS as connected as he says he is, and you should believe it, period} --- rooting for this company and all you can do is whine, whine, WHINE! Oh. My. Goodness!!!

Meanwhile---------

I went out a while back to the site -- I talked to BOTH owners Ron and Corey and got excellent personal responses to my questions ------- AND was encouraged to try the "Submit Free to Corey" option just to test it out and SEE HOW IT WORKS.

It's on the site. Corey, the co-owner, can be submitted to for ZERO credits.

I did this, (asking first if I could send 3, and that was approved) for three of my vocal tracks. For EACH ONE Corey sent me a very good, also positive video, about 5 minutes each, discussing the industry pros, markets, and potential of each song.

He's a genuine guy. Very personable.
For me -- that was worth the time and stress for me to send something **somewhere** -- which I had never EVER done before because I keep putting myself down about my abilities.
I have not, yet, submitted my pieces to the names he suggested but they did and do look like a very good fit for what I'm doing.

Big Jim keeps wanting the bad old days back of scouts and agents. Well Jim -- one thing: back then there WAS no internet. There WAS no way other than to send out scouts and keep them searching.

Today: we have Justin Bieber sending his USA family videos from Canada so they could watch him drum. Other people found it - a LOT of other people -- USHER found it -- and honestly: the kid IS actually talented, no matter what you think of his style or genre or all the hype, he has what it takes to be where he is.

The times AND the business HAVE to change with the flow of technology. Period.

As far as I'm concerned Blazetrak credits are NO DIFFERENT than paying TAXI's annual fee, or NSAI, or any other company or service that seeks to "forward" your demos to the pros.

Here: You get a video response FROM the ACTUAL pro.

Shoot, if they got Brian May or Jimmy Page or Robert Plant or Celine Dion or Josh Groban on there --- I'd ante up the credits just for the privilege of the hello!! (and hope to high heaven I did NOT waste their precious time)


Think it through, people! Gah!! At some point, some of ya oughta quit being so crusty.

Brian Whitney our moderator FULLY endorses TAXI. Look over on the right of your screen there. He also CAREFULLY looks out for and seeks-and-destroys any and all potential scammers who come fishing on this site.

The very fact this thread is alive and well after six pages -- AND that you have the business owner himself visiting with you and politely answering your (some, not very politely worded) questions in detail --- REALLY ought to tell you something. About legitimacy.

I personally feel it is a very cool new way to look at the whole mess.

I could pay TAXI $300 a year -- EVERY year -- just to have my songs half-listened to by an employee going through the gigantic slush pile, in the hopes somebody might find something interesting enough to forward it just a little further. (And that does work too, I am not knocking their services *at all!!*)

Or: I can fetch Blazetrak credits and hand-pick the targets with a guaranteed listen and RESPONSE from that individual -- or get my money back.

You, we, I -- we are ALL paying somebody SOMETHING to get through the doors we all hope to someday get through. It's a question of where, and who is the most reputable -- and if Blazetrak is "new," the pros who are signed up with them are *not.* They are the real deal. Working in the industry busting their tails every day. Fifty bucks for five minutes' review from your favorite songwriter or producer? And if you hit the mark -- you could get more than a review.

Like I said. Think it through.

Those of you freaking out about the "money" these pros are making from this -- I'm sorry but this makes me laugh. These people are pulling in millions annually. $160K a year isn't even interest. It might not even be alimony. LOL From our perspective, yes that looks like a lot, but to people working in that upper stratosphere -- it is completely peanuts.

But it DOES help weed out the freeloaders who aren't invested enough in who they are. IMHO.

OK. That's my take.

Linda

That's why we love ya Linda. Well said...Probably 'nough said too:-)

Midnite

OK I'm caught up on Brian's reply now.
Again I haven't paid in any credits to date but I do find the business model intriguing.

I do appreciate free (esp ALL the hard work going into JPF in the foreground and behind the scenes), paying it forward, and giving back to the community: I do get all that.

And I do hear what Jim is saying that it seems tawdry in some way -- I hear that -- and IMO it goes right in with this being the USA I guess, where when Hurricane Katrina hits, there are Looters everywhere scrounging anything of anybody else's they can get their hands on --- and after the tsunami in Japan -- I hear everyone's personal things and stores go completely untouched as *that would be disrespectful.*

So maybe it is a cultural perception.

But what I am seeing is -- actually being listened to -- by the actual person promised to you: and that intrigues me.

There's a reason it's called the "slush pile." After all....

Would it make anybody feel any better if you had to pass a "you are good enough to submit" process from middlemen before you were allowed to buy credits???

Actually I believe that would make me, personally, feel worse about the whole idea and far more suspect of a scam. Just like the bazillion companies out there ready to fluff you up and tell you how wonderful you are just to snag your money....

And I am willing to be wrong about the Almighty Dollar having little effect on the pro's signed up....... sure, in today's economy it must all still count - but there are still such phrases as "working for peanuts" and "you just can't pay me enough" which may apply here -- from their perspective. If you have over a million in the bank earning interest you live off of (having been very smart, let's pretend you were) -- honestly -- $50, $100 by that point is small change. It's a tip at the restaurant tonight - or less.

Meaning: It's *barely* compensation for their time which is, literally, very valuable -- especially considering ANY thing good or bad could be sent and they're committed to the headache of a video reply to absolute JUNK if that's what they get in the box....... and oh MY that part of the job can't be too fun.

Some are crying "expensive!!" and maybe it is, in comparison to Taxi or NSAI's $5-10 critique fees....... but for what it IS, and the fact that they ARE delivering the video responses within the set timeframe, or credits are refunded to try again -- for what it actually IS - it doesn't sound overpriced, to me.

Maybe I'm undereducated on that. I'm willing to be wrong.

But I'll tell you something I know - from being on the critiquer's end: as a freelance editor, it wasn't long before I started taking writing samples before committing to a client.

Had good reasons for that.... yeah.

I have to say - from these professional's viewpoint - kudos for being willing to open yourselves up to sorting through the random slushpile, and allowing the possibility of finding talent this new internet way a chance.

Ethical, unethical, to charge a fee?
Lawyers charge fees, doctors charge fees...
Specialists in any field, ESPECIALLY charge fees...
Shrug.

Anyway it's the middle of the night and I may not be making any sense.



Linda

LOL Midnite, yeah -- I finally caught up to Greg's saying maybe this one's gone on long enough and should be locked. haha
And added more anyway
done now --
thanks --
Linda

Linda I understand where you are coming from and agree....It is down to principles and human nature....It is not surprising that etiquette, morals and ethics go out the window when folk think they will score with a big time producer or folk think they can take a shortcut or make a fast buck....TEMPTATION IS A STRONG EMOTION.
I UNDERSTAND...... JUST DO NOT AGREE WITH IT.
You are spot on about it being a cultural thing. I take issue about the bad old days and the internet is here thing. Why should the talent scouts be redundant? There is a place for them and their job is made even easier with the internet. If the people on the various rungs of the ladder did their job then people with talent would rise......and there would be no need for buying credits......it is all about working your way up and meeting folk on the next level who can take your career further on up the ladder....not buying your way up or missing several rungs on the way. This NEW way of doing things is probably the reason todays music is SOoooo naff and the people behind it SOoooo corrupt. Just my take.
Rant over. nuff said.

Thank you Jim. I really appreciate your comments.

It's very difficut for me to stand up and say what I do. It's not good for me, and not good for pushing my music further. But heck, I'm old and over it, and perhaps younger folks can learn from the experience.

I guess as an older man, I'll just say what I see as right.

I've never been "famous" but by God, I've had a few well known men come through my front door, and not one of them would ever entertain this nonsence.

But hey, I'm just a colonial and not from the land where we sell our soul(s).

cheers, niteshift

PS - my American mates will, assuradly disregard any implied regional bias.

Post deleted by Johnny Daubert

Johnny: I have no idea what you are talking about -- but I am hungry now.

Sorry John I also have no idea what you are talking about.
But to put this whole thing to bed......
Some years ago I was crucified by loads of people on this forum for daring to say that the whole business was corrupt and unethical run by suits who were only interested in money and actually had no love and little understanding of music in general but knew how to make a buck ripping people off by using hype and marketing or operating unethical scams. I also said that most of the music produced was third rate crap churned out just to make a quick buck and most of the stars got there through contacts and not talent. I went as far as to say that the only reason a lot got their fame was because they were related to other stars or people who were already big shots in with contacts in the biz. I also stated that buying into the biz was ethically wrong but that is how a lot of folk did it. There were tons of people with talent in spades who deserved a fair shot but the odds were stacked against them because the biz was so crooked was another of my points.
Now most people disagreed entirely with these points and said I was an idiot who did not know what he was talking about and did not know the biz.
This thread has not only reinforced my take and hopefully got people to think about ethics but has actually shocked me into thinking the unimagineable that if anything the biz is even more crooked than I could ever dream possible.
So for all those who are willing to pay for an introduction and who see nothing ethically or morally wrong with paying whether through Blazetrak or some other site offering a similar service go for it...... you deserve each other.

There's obviously several people with different matters of opinion. At the end of the day, I still help my friends and I don't charge them for it, but my time is valuable, so for something of a business nature, I wouldn't just give any ol' chum off the street a shot if I didn't know who they were, what they could do, or what their background was like. That would be taking a shot in the dark and not many people would be willing to take that sort of risk.

Now, if someone had a flat tire on the side of the road, was homeless and needed my help, or something that required a charitable heart, I'd be the first to stop and help in a heart beat without thinking about what would be in it for me.

So even though some of us are wondering about the ethics and moral issues of certain business models, I have one thing to say to you. America is a capitalistic society. It's just the way it is. Business is business and it will always be like that.

Jim, you've got a good heart, but I enjoy writing pop music. It's okay for you not to like that kind of music, BUT it is ALSO ok for people that DO like it and continue writing/performing it. If you don't like it, don't listen to it.

I'll put in a penny or two on this thread. I wouldn't want to be left out of such a popular thread.

Though paying for critiques has never been so wide spread (as Linda mentioned; it's a new ball game - enter the Internet). It's really nothing new.

Anyone remember the famous DJ, record company owner, and author Shad O'Shea? His first book was titled "Just For the Record". Great book, loved it at the time.

Anyway, in his book he solicited readers for personal critiques via a cassette tape. I have one of his in-depth critiques of a song my brother and I wrote. Can't quite remember what Shad charged ($20-$25 ?), but it was well worth it at the time. Kind of put the music business in perspective for snot-nosed whippersnaps like us.

I don't remember anyone making a fuss about it then. Of course there wasn't the Internet at the time.

Okay, now I'm part of this thread.

John

Welcome to the thread John!

Since you put it that way John, (although if you've read the board, Blazetrak isn't charging people for critiques, they're offering access at a cost, for people to submit material to celebrities of their choice), that there are other people out there charging for critiques and such as well.

If I recall, Jason Blume is a JPF mentor and he has a website offering up different services (for a fee) as well. www.jasonblume.com

No one gripes about that...

Oh yes they do...A while back I went on at length about Mr Blume and others who charge for critiques and other services plus write books that say nothing new or something we do not already know..... and again got slated for it.....maybe one day I will say something that folk actually agree with.

So you think everything should basically be free of charge Jim?

I think in order for you to have the world you want to live in Jim, that would require a revolution and an overthrow of global capitalistic policies and socialistic tendencies.

But in something like that, there's a worse cost than a few bucks being spent.

Greg..you have me all wrong..... just a few bucks that nobody really worries about multiplied thousands of time is thousands of bucks and that multiplied a few time can be millions. So the few bucks is irrelevant it is the principle....if a man steals a penny he is still as much a thief as if he stole a million.
I do not think everything should be free..and I do not have a problem with profits...what I do have a problem with is GREEDY PEOPLE, UNETHICAL PEOPLE, CHEATS AND SCAMMERS.

Just to clarify my position....Ron might be a nice bloke and he might believe in what he is doing and some people will see him and Blazetrak as a valuable service. That is up to them.
I on the other hand see his business plan as unethical and unprofessional.....and perhaps a tad greedy....I also think that the producers who seek introductions for money also qualify as greedy and unethicl and unprofessional. It is an insult to the few people in the business who do operate ethically.

You are entitled to your opinion.

It's been awhile, so this info might be dated. I did, in fact, check out Mr. Blume's site. It noted that not all submissions would be critiqued by him, but that some would be critiqued "by people he had trained". "Bait & switch" popped into my head.
Ott

Darn it, I've run out of popcorn.

Midnite

Has he placed an ad here? Blume's, I mean, I havent seen it.

Miz.Petra

Jason Blume has a songwriting book or two out--I have one of them.
I expect you have to go to his site and crits are offered there

http://www.jasonblume.com/1289852.html

Deja vu.....yes he charges for critiques and just about everything else and yes he gets others to do the critiques for him. Is this ethical?....is paying for a critique a worthwhile exercise?.....I do not think so.....the decision is yours. I am of the opinion that you learn the craft and write your own songs not copy what others think or adopt their methods or what they do. There is no short cut or learn quick system. Of course I write songs because I want to not for commercial success. If you want a good critique then post in the Mp3 forum or in the Lyric feedback forums......in amongst the pats on the back there are some pretty honest knowledgable free appraisals from people who write pretty good songs and you will save money. What if Jason Blume or his trained associate does not like the song but everyone else does?...do you go down the road of writing to his formula or stick with crafting your own......we need originality in this world full of clones.

When I read the comments condemning Blaze Trak why does the phrase "Spread The Wealth Around" come to mind.

Nope, he's never placed an ad here. Nice try to attack an honest an open person in the industry who donates tons of time and help with zero strings attached. Ott, every time you open your mouth via a post here, you put your foot deeply in it.

I really hope Ott spends ALL his money on unproven services willing to take his money far above market rates and offer little or nothing of value in return. Then perhaps he'll stop posting idiotic statements here.

Brian

BTW I too have Jason Blumes book 6 steps to songwriting success.
Follow his teachings and you just end up being a clone writing to the formula for the same old one dimesional tired cliche songs.
Now some would see that as a good thing....and buy the book. That is probably why a lot of pop music sounds the same. I prefer originality and folk writing to their own formula not poor copies of what has gone before.

To Anyone Finding This Long Long Post:

As the founder of Just Plain Folks, I've spent the last 15 years (and going back further in other artistic disciplines), helping musicians in a variety of ways and always for free. I've also brought in a variety of professionals from all areas of the industry to offer more free advice and guidance. In addition, I've created a place where peers, the most valuable people in your career as you start off, can share what they learn and know and where open discussion and debate can take place. Among the many topics involved are which companies are honest, moral and worthy of your time and patronage. Many companies approach us (or instead, like the case below, just come to our site looking to take what they can get without offering anything of value to anyone who isn't going to pay them first) to promote what they are doing to our members. Folks like Ron of Blazetrak want FREE and EASY access to the community that I have built with tremendous hard work over many years. But alas... let's move on.

I made an upfront offer, based on Greg Watton, a long time member here, staking his personal reputation on them, to do due diligence and give Ron a chance to demonstrate the value of his service to highly talented professional musicians who would be among the EASIEST to help of our 50,000 members. After all, if you can't be of benefit to them, what possible good can you do for anyone their equal or below? The obvious answer is that if you can't help someone READY for commercial success you can't help anyone at all except the same small handful of artists that breakthrough each year already. (Because the sad truth is that no "service" is going to increase the demand or number of opportunities for music, at best they might be able to shift it to someone else if they offer real value, but that's for another discussion about those companies who live up to that challenge).

I said (you can read the exact words earlier in this post, I don't have them in front of me as I type this) I'd write about any successes they were able to provide those artists which would be an unbiased and honest assessment of their company. I would do that for free and that could be the end of the matter if they wanted. I also said if they declined, it would tell me a lot as well. After all, it's easy to SAY you are transparent, but it's a different matter to actually BE transparent. And a write up from me to our 50,000 members is worth far more than the cost of using their service, so any benefit would go their way, not my way. In fact, I'd be the only entity to NOT benefit from the work. (Since I'd have to set it up, round up the artists, follow up with the progress, and write the article and then publish it in our newsletter to a community I personally created from scratch with years of hard work on my end). Since I would be putting my own reputation behind the truth in the article, I had to have control over the variables (such as which artists) so I could be sure it was all legit. After all, unlike Greg, who mistook a press release as an unbiased news story, I wanted to offer a factual recap of the real value and truth behind this company. And I was hoping we'd find something surprising: A useful, moral and worthwhile company providing a service that could actually help someone who was ready to be helped.

So what happened? I got the following response declining my offer.

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Ron from Blazetrak Said: First and foremost, I just want to say thank you to this whole community for having an open dialogue about Blazetrak. All of your comments, both positive and negative will help us tremendously to improve our product and hopefully provide better services for you. Brian, I appreciate your offer, but I will decline. Here is why:

Brian Responds to Ron: That's what our community does. Though you may be thrilled with the free feedback on your company, I think we learned enough about you to form some strong viewpoints on your business model and approach, but I doubt it's what you were hoping for.
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Ron from Blazetrack Said: #1. Music is 100% purely subjective. Who you think is the best has no bearing on what I think, or what any of our pros think (even with your massive music awards program endorsement). All great music is not commercially viable, and vice versa, some bad music is. With that being said, who you hand pick could really mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. (and i say this with the utmost respect to you and your accomplishments).

Brian Responds to Ron: So as I read your statement, you are saying that even your own "pros" opinions mean nothing. Since in Ron's opinion no one person's opinion means anything, then what value are you providing beyond a high priced vanity stroke?
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Ron from Blazetrack Said: #2. Our goal is not success stories and that proves nothing in regards to our model. Yes we love success stories and we want them to happen as often as possible, but we don't offer that. We offer an opportunity to present yourself to people you admire, respect, and/or would like to work with (or you just really want their opinion or advice). Hopefully you present something to them that will move them in such a way that they want to continue to interact with you outside of Blazetrak). This is our value proposition. You either think that is worth paying for or not. If you don't, then there is no need to use our service.

Brian Responds to Ron: So again, you are acknowledging that your model has nothing to do with success of those using it. Your value proposition unfortunately only has an actual "value" to those of you raking in the cash. Value to those submitting (and paying the outrageous fees) to you is only measured in vanity/ego stroke and not based on anything resulting in success, income, career advancement or anything an intelligent person would view as a "value."
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Ron from Blazetrack Said: #3 We don't need your endorsement for success stories. Any success story that happens on our site is an endorsement in itself. We don't need you, or anyone else to validate it. When someone makes a submission on our site, then finds themselves in the studio with the same exact person they submitted to a few weeks later, all because of Blazetrak, it is already undeniable. We were the catalyst that made it happen and that is the fact. Maybe they make a hit record and make millions of dollars, maybe they show up at the studio and completely choke, leave and never hear from the person again. That part of the equation does not involve Blazetrak. You used our service to get in the door, now its your job to STAY in the room.

Brian Responds to Ron: A success story that happens on your site means nothing unless someone can independently verify it wasn't just an insider deal dressed up as a success. Many companies who have been exposed as scams used that exact tactic and without independent and unbiased evaluation it's only the word of those financially gaining to prove any success actually came about from using your service. You are smart to shield yourself from liability and legal trouble by saying "that part does not involve Blazetrak" but then it also means you shouldn't be able to take the credit either since it wouldn't involve you. But oddly enough you are making that claim earlier in the same paragraph... that you were the cause of what led to someone being in the "studio" with one of your "pros." Of course, no more details are offered, such as whether more money is being taken from the Blazetrak customer from that Super Producer (or whoever it is, you don't say) to make a recording that also has no chance of going anywhere, but sure does fill up that empty studio schedule that even the best producers can find themselves facing today with the massive retraction of the music industry. Taking you at your word (since no details are given) you have demonstrated how deep and dangerous a vanity scam can go. This tactic (i.e. you pay to be "discovered" then are passed to the next vulture to be bilked out of more money on the hopes you can keep buying your way to success) has existed in Nashville and LA for decades. Technology has just added a better mousetrap to catch the mouse and drain his/her blood more efficiently). Does this apply to Blazetrak? All I know is I was offering you a chance to have your process independently reviewed by a trusted entity in our community, which is a significant piece of your potential market (I am not sure of any larger collectives that would make such an offer to you). But you don't really want that independent review based on your response. To reasonable people that raises some flags. You'll be able to get free promotion by flooding message boards with promotional spam of sites less attentive or aware than ours or with much smaller member bases or both. But who is going to put their reputation on the line from someone unwilling to be critically reviewed? Anyone who does is a problem themselves. By the way, if something in my suggestion went to far, but Ron was really interested in having an unbiased look at his business, he could have countered with another suggestion. But that's not how he responded. See below:
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Ron from Blazetrack Said: #4 People from your membership have already used our service and will continue to do so (while paying our fees) if they feel it can help THEM with or without your blessing, and I am sure they will come back and report their findings anyway. You run a great organization and I commend you on it, but at the end of the day, people will make their own decisions on what is best for them, and whether something can be of use to them, regardless of what anyone else says or thinks. I am willing to bet on that side of the human character.

Brian Responds to Ron: None have previously indicated anything to me except Greg and I followed up. One reason people come to our message boards is to find out if a service is legit, a scam, or in between. Most scams by the way are perfectly legal and often have a common theme: They prey on the weakest in the herd, those DESPERATE to find success even if they have to buy it. You imply the possibility of major success very well without crossing any legal lines as far as I can tell. I don't question that you'd be a successful politician. My job is to be an educator, an encourager, a networker and a protector of the JPF community and grassroots artists at large, which I've been doing without my hand in their wallet along the way. Since you've stated clearly here that my opinion or "blessing" (your word) about your company will have no impact on who uses your company, then it's clear you've stated in writing that nothing I can say or do can help or hurt your company. That's good to know for the record. Don't forget you made that statement clearly and unequivocally. Based on that statement, I will continue to respond.
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Ron from Blazetrack Said: #5 I am wondering if you asked Taxi, or any other companies you endorse to give you a few freebies to prove themselves. Doing due diligence to learn more about a company or organization is one thing, but to ask for a handout so to speak and dangle your 50k members as a carrot just seemed a little off to me. But hey, this is just how my crazy mind works.

Brian Responds to Ron: Actually, what I got from TAXI was far more intrusive and I didn't even have to ask, they offered anything I wanted. And I didn't ask you to give me a freebie or anything else. I offered you a chance to demonstrate the value of your service using a handful of proven talents which I know aren't in bed with you or your team and offered YOU a freebie, an accurate accounting of any success stories that came from the trial experiment with no further strings attached. A "freebie" suggests I am getting something from it which is clear from the offer I am not. Actually, I was offering to help your company in ways money could not buy. An unbiased demonstration of the value of your company. And by the way, companies offer free samples of their products or services all the time. It's a common business practice as long as the company is legit and has nothing to hide or fear of being exposed. For example the film industry allows critics to come and see films for free all the time because when they have done great work, they want to get the word out from trusted sources. On the other hand, when they know their movies suck bad, they don't allow reviewers to see their films until they are already out in theaters because they know an honest assessment will ravage their early sales and when the movie sucks, that's the only time money is really made, once word is out they've made most of what they can because people were kept in the dark except tightly controlled press releases, misleading trailers that paint the film in the best possible light and, something you should really understand, lots of BIG FAMOUS NAMES to attract unsuspecting masses. And the reason why a critical review means more than 1 single person (who may not really know what they are talking about) is that good professional critic have large followings who tend to trust their advice. Quite an apt parallel I think.
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Ron from Blazetrack Said: Again, I have the utmost respect for you and what you have built here at JPF. My intent for coming here was not to win you over so you could endorse us to your membership. I came here to tell you and your membership our story, and be completely transparent in regards to how we operate and what we offer, then hope that you would find it useful. I feel like I have accomplished my goal.

Brian Responds to Ron: Giving us a press release version of your company is the opposite of transparent, it's a one-way narrative. I was giving you a chance to be transparent, which you've declined, and gone on to further suggest I have no influence within my organization (even though you said you hoped I would find it useful). I find that comment very interesting. I guess we'll find out, not amongst a small handful of people on this post, but upon all the folks on the net that find this post when searching and who read your comments and mine. There are always going to be plenty of people who will try to BUY their success, usually because they either don't have the talent to do it for real, or they aren't willing or able to do the hard REAL work to make it happen. So when someone comes along and says "just pay us lots of money and you can talk to a famous industry person" there will sadly always be people lining up to pay, whether the people behind it are honest or not. In addition, companies like that will often pass off these easy targets to their idle industry friends to be further exploited. Sure, the vanity business has always existed. And I can't stop any of the ignorant or lazy people who want a quick, workless path to success. The same folks fall for all sorts of scams like fad diets or politicians who make them believe they really do have their interests at heart. But I can try to help educate some of those folks and for those with a clue (and a little less desperation) and who are ready and willing to learn the truth, I can inform them on how similar schemes have been done to people before and taken their money with little value in return, and I can warn them when someone is an out and out scam artist or is conducting illegal activities. You're right that I can only help those ready and willing to be helped. I am sure you'll find people looking for fame and fortune via their checkbook and astronomical luck. There's more than one sucker born every minute and I am sure you'll be happy to take their money.
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So we'll let folks read this and any other posts about your company that pop up on our site which we'll try to link back to this one so folks know where we stand and see where it goes.

Conclusion:

My strong recommendation is that our members and any musician surfing through who reads this to learn more about this company save their money and spend some time learning about the many FREE ways you can advance your talent and career using not only JPF but many other folks who will give you feedback and mentoring for free just as useful as what you'd be paying for minus the high fees and celebrity judges.

Once you've learned more about that and gotten a reality check on how the industry works, I (and other honest and knowledgeable people) can suggest (for free) a variety of ways you could invest (not necessarily money, but time, energy and hard work) in your career which would offer you far more benefit than a few minutes of video from someone who may be far more interested in cashing in on desperate and clueless musicians than really helping someone. I doubt anything illegal is happening, but when it come to a question of morals, that's another story.

Bottom Line about Blazetrak from the info supplied:

If you take away the vanity appeal of it all where you're sending your money to very rich people (and their friends and relatives) it's simply a very expensive critique site. There are no other stated benefits. Sure, they IMPLY more, but quickly distance themselves from any real connection to further benefit. (Because in my opinion that would be risky in a legal sense).

If a studio is charging 2-5-10-20 or whatever times the market rate for a service, we'd all recommend against it, especially if you weren't 100% ready for commercial success because the resulting product would be worthless beyond vanity which does not help your career, but can clean out your bank account quickly. Like the old saying, no matter how much you polish a turd, it's still a turd. (Producer/Writer Patrick Leonard was the first to tell me that, but it's been credited to dozens of different people).

If someone here who has not demonstrated commercially viable work pays ridiculous prices and is delighted to hear bogus positive feedback (easy to do on even the worst of the worst music if you want to get (or keep) someone hooked) they are certainly going to whip out that checkbook, buy more credits and waste more and more money. And if they prove to be a huge mark (what the scam industry calls someone willing and able and dumb enough to spend huge cash on their scam) they'll be told exactly the right things to string them along and sweet talk them and appear as their friend or safe business contact, as long as money continues to flow. But real people in the industry don't keep charging talented folks with promise. At most they will want to attach themselves to future success (which can also be a scam if the contract is unfair), but at least it's a shared success model versus a "buy your success" model where the only success you are buying is that of the people receiving your money.

But I will say that Ron is polite and seems politically correct, friendly and inviting to all. That makes him quite a risky force to deal with because people believe politicians who use the same demeanor all the time. Look how well that usually turns out. Food for thought.

But all that's just my opinion, I could be right. To the artists/writers reading this: Ask yourself who is trying to make a buck off of you, it might clear up whose motives are what.

To Greg and Linda and Ott and others using or supporting this model, spend away. You guys know a lot more about these things than I do right? ; )

Be careful out there folks, success requires talent, hard work and persistence. You can't afford to buy success. Multinational corporations are way ahead of you and even they lose 100's of millions trying in vain.

And one final thought: Your spouse or significant other doesn't charge you to love you. But a prostitute can simulate that for a fee. Which is real? The one you pay for from a stranger or the one that comes for free from someone who loves you for real? You can't "buy" real friends or contacts. That's not real. Don't get fooled.

Brian

Jason isn't baiting and switching anyone bro. He actually teaches people how to write songs for commercial use. So there's more to what he and his team does than just "critique" songs. Thought you should know that.

As far as Jim having a problem with what Jason offers, I think he has a great service he offers. But then again, my opinion probably doesn't count here anymore.

Brian,

I've only used their service once and I got good results out of it. I didn't use Blazetrak because I HAVE to. I used it because I was curious about the service. It worked as promised. I got a guaranteed video response from the industry professional I chose to submit to. I didn't see anything dishonest about that.

For the record, I don't NEED Blazetrak's services and I didn't need it BEFORE I used it. Based on my experience with them, I decided to let other people know about it here.

I will still back up what I said about staking my reputation on my conviction and based on the fact that they deliver what they promise, I will not back up and change my story. Their service delivered as promised. What more can I say about that? I was a satisfied customer.

You can't buy friends, I agree with that completely. You can't buy years of building relationships and the experiences that go along with that. I agree with that completely. You can't buy love. Again, I agree with that completely.

BUT, you CAN buy a few minutes of a person's time and that IS ALL Blazetrak is offering. The relationships built AFTER, aren't being bought. The guy I submitted to wasn't obligated to give me his contact information. He isn't obligated to do anything more other than give a video response.

I think both parties offer valid points. I suppose it's up to the consumer to decide what they want to do.

Oh and Jason Blume has a book out called 6 Steps to Songwriting Success. GREAT book. I got a lot of use out of it and it's helped me fine tune my own talents back when I read it. You can buy it at any bookstore and if they don't have it, you can have it special ordered or just go on Jason's website. I think you can order it there.

Yes Greg, that's called prostitution. It has it's place if you so consider it to be part of your ethos.

I must say, like Midnite, I've run out of popcorn.

Brian, I gotta hand it to ya. Someone here called me an amateur. I truely am, in regards to your response.

But then again, when you're an educator, and not a money grabbing vanity proposer, I guess the difference is obvious.

Nice work.

cheers, niteshift

Oh! My

Greg: I apologize for the "bait & switch" comment. Though I still think that to use the "people he's trained" to do critiques is disengenuous. If the professionals on Blazetrak used the same disclaimer, I wouldn't touch then with a twenty foot pole.
Ott
p.s. I still will be using Blazetrak's services.
p.s.s. I've read every book he has ever published.

The definition of prostitution according to dictionary.com is as follows:

1. A woman who engages in sexual intercourse for money
2. A man who engages in such activity, especially in homosexual practices
3. A person who offers his talent or work for unworthy purposes

This debate is turning into something that I never intended for it to turn into. I appreciate Brian's response. I appreciate Ron's response, and I appreciate everybody else's response.

I know some people are going to say Blazetrak qualifies as "prostitution" under definition #3, but let me point out the definition of "unworthy" first:

1. Not adequate of merit or character
2. Not commendable or creditable

Blazetrak never lied about what they're about. They never lied about what they can do. They presented themselves well and they defended their integrity. In no way did they try to deceive anyone and everything they offer and promise is crystal clear (read the entire thread).

The only time they would become "unworthy" is if they didn't follow through with everything they promise.

"For the record, I don't NEED Blazetrak's services and I didn't need it BEFORE I used it."-Greg Watton

That's my point. YOU don't need it because you've been doing the work to build contacts already. If, on the other hand you hadn't done all the work you've already done, then what interest would they have had in you? Zero. Unless of course there was going to be MORE money in it for them. But sure, if you already have contacts and success, it's not surprising that someone on the same level would talk to you or want to see if they can benefit from your contacts and hard work. That's how it always works. But this company has inserted a FEE into what normally happen naturally based on mutual interest that didn't involve a fee.

Greg, you came here at first and post a completely false and poorly verified claim that the Wall Street Journal had written a story about these guys. (And to be clear, Blazetrak did not make that statement, only Greg did). You act impulsively and always have and it has often not worked out well for you. You have also (to your credit) replaced that knee jerk strategy with patience and hard work that led to some real contacts and opportunities for you in the business. But you reverted back to the old Greg on this one. And you dragged a lot of people, some well meaning, some clueless, some not so well meaning and some from outer space to go back and forth about this. Since Ron had come here on his own to try and benefit from my hard work to promote his company to our member base on the cheap and without our usual scrutiny, we hashed this out in public. Some don't seem to like that I have a process of due dilligence to check folks out. Tough. I don't care if you like it or agree with it. It means nothing that you disagree because it's MY reputation and name and my trademark's reputation at stake, not theirs. So you folks should feel free to post your own names behind anything you want, just put it on your own website in your own name, not on my site.

Had Ron come to me first, we'd have discussed these matters off site and made decisions if JPF and his company had any common interests or trust. I wouldn't expect him to be forced to place JPF's name on his site, he should have come to our site and posted his site's promotional messages without permission. It's interesting, company who has come to me first for permission to post about their company has turned out to be legit. I ask them questions, they answer. I give them requirements they have to follow if they are going to post and if they follow them, all is well. The ones we have problems with are the ones who try to benefit off the hard work done by JPF to build membership without bothering to even act with respect or professionalism before trying to snare some business, which this company admits to having done already. If not for OUR hard work, they wouldn't have gotten that business. We got nothing of value in return from them and that's how they want it. One way.

The one sided free ride spamming is over though. Ron is welcome to respond on this post, but going forward, Blazetrak the company needs to find their marks elsewhere. They aren't interested in being checked out to protect our members. They only want to make a quick easy free buck. Ack.

Brian

Let me defend Jason by saying that those people he's trained are like an extension of him. They're just as qualified to offer educated critiques of other people's work just as much as Jason is because he ensured they became qualified. Otherwise they wouldn't be working for him.

I've read a lot of Jason's books too and I think there is a wealth of information beginning writers AND seasoned writers can learn from. The books are a useful tool anytime, anywhere.

Greg,

Are you really going to suggest they are okay because they might not fit the definition of prostitution 100%? That's some endorsement.

By the way, prostitutes in Nevada, where it is legal, fits your defense:

"Blazetrak never lied about what they're about. They never lied about what they can do. They presented themselves well and they defended their integrity. In no way did they try to deceive anyone and everything they offer and promise is crystal clear"

Legal Nevada prostitutes fit that as well. So what?

But let's not compare BT to prostitutes even though they might fit your definition. You can't buy REAL love and you can't buy REAL success. (and to make this a little political, you can't cut a deficit and get out of debt by spending more money, but I digress).

Brian

Brian,

I was responding to Niteshift's claim and countering it. Obviously my response backfired on me. This isn't about "prostitution" anyway.

I'm not going to try to argue with you either. You've made some valid points and I'd be interested in seeing what Ron's response to you is.

How can it be put any simpler ?

If you don't know the difference Greg, then you need to learn the difference.

cheers, niteshift

I should probably just shut up now.

Come on Gerg, you're a decent guy, and your work really speaks for itself. It's top notch. Not to my taste, but top notch all the same.

I feel it is beneath you to have the views that you hold. And what's worse, promote them to folks which are just passing by and don't have a clue.

Take that pork chop offa your neck mate ! ( please see previous post )

cheers, niteshift

Nite,

Thanks man. That actually really means a lot to me that you said that. Truthfully, I think if a person CAN get in the door without having to pay for it, they SHOULD take that route and develop all the relationships they can and network, do the hard work et cetera. Truthfully, that will cost money too, but if they CAN do it that way, they should.

I do think BT is worth a shot for people who are good enough and don't know how to open the doors that others can. Perhaps they COULD lower the fees to a more affordable cost because the average person in the current economy isn't making enough money to make a service like BT worth their while. While BT guarantees video responses, there really is no guarantee that anything beyond that would happen for a submitter unless they favorably fit the bias of the listener.

Brian, your arrogance no longer surprises me. "Since Ron had come here on his own to try and benefit from my hard work to promote his company to our member base on the cheap and without our usual scrutiny, we hashed this out in public. Some don't seem to like that I have a process of due dilligence to check folks out." Ron did not start this thread.
Greg started this thread, in the sincere belief that he believed this was a legitmate business site. And all you do is condescend to him for this supposed indiscretion, because the owners of the site did not give in to your demands?
Here's a countdown for you. First, the posters who agree with you: Niteshift, Big Jim Merriless, Songcabinet, Dan Tindall. And now, a list of people who disagree, or are at the very least, thinking this business model might be appropriate for some individuals : Greg Watton -- Linda Adams -- Donna Marilyn -- Mike Caro -- Bill Robinson -- Kevin Emmerich -- John Voorpostel -- Jody Whitesides -- Tampa Stan -- Johnny Daubert -- and me, Ott Lukk. Just how many "Top 100" posters are you blowing off?
Ron did not kiss up to you, so you blew him off. Just like you do to anyone who disagrees with you. Throw me another insult because I disagree with you? Big whoop. Go ahead. In the mean time, consider the possibility that your members do not always need your precious guidance, and can think for themselves.
Ott

(Note from Brian: I edited this post without changing a single word of what Ott said, but to correct a partial sentence which I had edited in the original post but after Ott had quoted it. I did not touch Ott's words in any way nor did I change what I said beyond changing a run-on sentence to a shorter easier to read sentence which made better sense. I will respond to Ott below).

Please, let's not get into any personal attacks here. That was not the intent of this thread. :-(

I think if Ott and Brian have any grievances toward each other, they should speak about it privately and resolve it that way. Everything that needed to be said in support (for/against) BT has been said and there really isn't anything further that can be said about it. Let this thread be what it is and those who read it in the future can go through ALL the points of view and can come to their own conclusion about it.

Ott, buddy you are way out of line.

Brian ? Arrogant ? I don't think so. Is is your own ignorance which is being displayed.

I joined this site about 4 yrs ago now. Just stumbled across it, and have been here from that time. Why ? Because there's a great bunch of people here. They all give their time and they share their experiences in order to make things better.

Each has a small but specific skill and life experience. Through that, we all benefit. And we do it for free because it is so damn hard to make it in this business, you may as well sit down and slash your wrists.

Please don't call Brian arrogant Ott. It couldn't be any further from the truth.

And please don't try to dismiss intelligent men. They will simply brush you aside.

cheers, niteshift

Here's actually an objective and unbiased view of Blazetrak from an angel investor podcast called Sharktank. It's pretty cut and dry and the assessment talks about both the pros and cons of what Blazetrak is proposing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9AwMhunLjE

Greg said it better.....

cheers, niteshift

Ott,

Once again you simply put your foot in your own mouth. Ron came here originally to promote Blazetrak on his own. A simple click of his name and a look at his own self created posts will see that. You'll also find I treated him nicely and with respect on those posts. But this post exposed some concerns which led to more discussion and then direct back and forth.

It was when Ron acted with huge disrespect towards me that I lost respect for him. I made him a very generous offer in good faith with nothing to gain for myself. He could have said "How about instead we do X, Y or Z to demonstrate we're not just a vanity site etc." and at least that would have furthered the discussion, which in my experience honest companies with concerns would do. What you would NOT do is insult the owner of the site you are currently profiting off of (and I stand 100% by the comment which you quoted) because I am the one who put in the work to make this community exist and I expect if you want to come here and use my site or the programs offered in JPF you'll be a positive part and not a leech. We run leeches off of here all the time. Because up until now Ron had been professional and polite, I gave him every opportunity to demonstrate he was offering value over vanity. Had you read my post without the pre-bias you have against me, you'd have come to a different conclusion. I disagree daily with both Jim and Nite but when they are right, they are right. And when the others you mention are wrong, they are wrong. I made my argument and left everyone's comments here pro and con for rational people to make their own choices. According to Ron, my opinion means nothing to anyone in terms of support or non-support of his company. I find it offensive then that he came to my site to USE us rather than add something of value to the community in return for promoting what he was doing. When the time came for real transparency due to concerns raised, he declined and made no counter. I believe that is because his site offers nothing more than a pricey (far above market value) critique from a famous person for vanity purposes. He makes no other claims and thus, I can't see how any of my conclusions differ from his own admissions other than he thinks it's worth it and I do not.

On this single post Ott you've made ridiculous claims multiple times that were false. It's not just that you are wrong, it's that you are ignorant with an agenda. I warned you before and for a short time you dialed it back. But like the scorpion in the old tale, you just can't change your nature and I am no frog willing to let you ride on my back across the river waiting for your next attempt to sting. So as I promised you, you are taking a vacation from our site. Have a nice time elsewhere.

Brian

Oh man. :-( This thread wasn't intended for it to turn into a pissing contest that resulted in people getting personally attacked or memberships being suspended/revoked. :-( I kinda' feel like this might be my fault.

Yes Greg, it is your fault. And you are going to be boiled in smoking oil and spend the rest of your life in perpertuity where they are going to play you boy songs until your ears bleed.

cheers, niteshift

Greg,

Just remember.. you put your reputation behind this company which started this. That means something. It's a lesson I really wish you'd learn before it becomes far more costly than a message board post. Though I appreciate that you've come to the right conclusion, it's unfortunate the carnage left in the wake. But, let's be clear, you did not cause the owner Ron of responding the way he did. He did that all on his own. And Ott has been a disaster for a long time. He's had some issues which I will not divulge here, but one I can discuss is his hatred of me and my involvement with my own site. I never understood why he wanted to stay here as there are other message boards where he might be far happier, where people will put up with his falsehoods, personal attacks and stupid statements.

I think I might paste the primary discussion points of this post on it's own post so folks can just read the relevent commentary. Ott always felt I had a grudge against anyone who disagreed with me. Well, I just agreed with two of the people I publicly disagree with perhaps as much as anyone on the boards. So how exactly would that work? I consider Nite and Jim and Linda and You and pretty much everyone else on this board I personally know a friend. I would exclude Ott. And as for Ron, I have no personal issue aside from his loss of decorum and illogical cheap shot on me and the weaknesses of his business model that lend themselves to abuse of members of our community. He's on record saying nothing I say or think about him or his company can help or hurt them to our membership. Well, saying nothing at all and giving zero exposure itself would have already cost him money from those he's suckered into spending money based on this one post alone. That's awfully reckless based on all his previous polite correspondence and supposed respect for myself and JPF.

Regardless of my impulsiveness on calling the press release an article (which I admit was a stupidly impulsive thing), this thread has been a very important debate that is educational on many levels. Despite the opinions (on both sides) regarding blazetrak, it exists and I am positive there are plenty of people in the world who will continue to utilize the service for whatever purpose they may have.

I think it's an intriguing business model. Sure, I think certain things could be changed about it to make it better and more user friendly. After watching the podcast by the shark tank, they mentioned that it could be a good idea if the professional donated their portion of the money to a charity of their choice. I think that would make their business model more attractive to the consumer. But I digress.

I don't have any personal grudges or feelings against anyone who posted on this thread (pro or con) and yes, I consider you a friend as well Brian. I'm honored that you consider me one. :-) We all agree and disagree on many different things. That's what makes us all unique. If everybody agreed on everything, we'd live in a pretty boring world.

I'm not sorry for creating this thread. I think there's plenty that was said in this thread for many people to learn from. There is a wealth of information and lessons to be digested here. I am sorry that some people felt like they had to turn into personal attack dogs. I hope they learn in the future not to do that.

Greg: You come off like a pro to me -- keep doing what you are doing. It is great to see hard working folks have successes in this brutal business.

Brian: You certainly have a way with words and can put things in perspective that makes it understandable to the "masses".

Ott doesn't need me to come to his "defense", but I will say he has become a regular and valued contributor on the MP3 thread (even if he does complain that I am a Simon Cowell wannabe in PM's -- ha, ha). I know JPF is much, much bigger than the MP3 thread, but since that is where I spend 90% of my time, I thought that I would point out that he is a "well-behaved" participant over there. Of course, I don't know what has been going on behind the scenes.

Kevin

I don't know what to say about all this.
Brian you have said I am wrong to believe as I do and Big Jim is right(edit) to believe as he does.
I don't know who or what God gave you the power to decide who's beliefs are right and who's are wrong but I reject it.

That I think BlazeTrak's business model is appropriate is my opinion.
And from what I can tell from searching the internet it seems to be about 50/50 split on whether people would use their service or not but I had a hard time finding anyone who called them a scam.
What I did find were industry people who gave examples of what it cost them to get their music into the hands of people like John Rich or Beyonce. Most said they had spent Thousands in their efforts to get their songs in front of them to no avail. The sheer volume of people wanting to get heard is overwhelming. At least with BlazeTrak they have a guarantee of the person actually hearing their music.

I'd like to know under what circumstances you can guarantee that?

Blaze Trak is NOT for everyone. But it might be for someone who is talented enough but languishing in the netherland of the music business lost in the sheer numbers of folks trying to make it.
Nashville hates Gherms. Gherms are the wannabes that are trying to get their foot in the door who approach the "Stars" and try to force their music on them.
Would I expect John Rich to open his door for me? No I wouldn't. (Even if I did have the talent)

For what I would pay to Taxi for one year to get some unknown in a booth to listen to thirty seconds of my song I might be able to get several established Artists or industry professionals, of my choice, to listen to one of my songs and give me a personal critique. And I will actually make PERSONAL contact with that person. Does that mean it will go any further? NO. But it might.

NSAI is the same. They are not free. You pay to be heard. I have gone to their play for publisher nights myself. It's like a cattle call. And you do not get to choose who you meet. You do get to play your song. Thirty seconds. But you do NOT get a critique. I have gone to their critiques and it is decent but again you don't get to choose the Professional.
At the NSAI pitch to publisher nights there are people from all over the country there. They spend hundreds or even thousands to get there to be heard for thirty seconds.

I just don't see the difference between that and what Blaze Trak offers.
Matter of fact I actually think Blaze Trak offers a better deal.
But that is only my opinion. I might be right I might be wrong.

Blaze Trak has been around for a while. I guess time will tell if they are successful or not.
It seems it is not just for songwriters. They seem to have opportunities for other industry professionals as well. Auditions are offered. You pay, yes. But what would a person who lives in Nebraska spend to attend an audition is New York? $500.00, $1000.00. I would think at least that much.

I need to understand this because is see this as a business model worth paying for.


Is it because Blazetrack charges money for something you (who disagree)feel should be free?


Brian et al, two very important and relevant to this conversation concepts I've taken away from here is... "it's not about who you know but who knows you", and no one wants to be a "ghermer" because that is a sure way to oblivion.


But people WANT and NEED these connections, and WANT and NEED to put their work in front of the right people.


Here is a service that uses the internet and the "excess time" of industry professionals to connect two people. This infrastructure takes money to set up, and the industry professionals who agree to provide their time, knowledge, experience etc deserve to be paid.


Now if we look at the "old way", these meetings are done face to face, via introductions, because someone stakes their reputation on that introduction. Even under the "old way" the talentless or as yet "underexposed with a small fan" base had no chance to be heard by the pros because no one would be willing to sponsor them.


Moreover, the "industry" also runs on favours, so someone's introduction always came with some expectation of quid pro quo.


So here BT facilitates the introduction, and no one needs a sponsor, just a very reasonable sum of money gets them exposure to the right kinds of people OF THEIR OWN CHOOSING.


There's also a deeper and more subtle "wrong" in demanding this to be free, or condemning it because it is not.


Just because some people offer up their services for free does not mean everybody has to. Just because you can get Open Office for free does not mean Microsoft has to give their software away. Just because I participate in free tax clinics for the elderly does not mean that when I do charge for that service that I am somehow unethical.


The beauty of free enterprise is that you can try to develop a business model that generates a profit. It means employment, and money keeps circulating, and it stimulates the economy. But it also means you may fail. It is really the consumer who will decide.


Here BT provides a service that not only connects someone to an industry professional where the talent stands on its own merits, but it does so cheaply (save air fare, hotels, time, effort) and effectively.


And Brian, just because JPF is free does not mean everything has to be. Your model is entirely different from BT. Folks connect here, and mentors gather here because they want to, and BECAUSE IT SERVES THEIR PURPOSES. You have a marketing background. You and I both know the world runs on "what is in it for me".


For example, I think Marc is an awesome person, generous, knowledgeable, talented etc, but if you ask him to be honest about why he's here, one of his top three reasons is "because I run a business in Nashville and this is cheap exposure for me". You may think this is selfish, but I'm betting it's the truth and I respect him for being smart in his business.


You do this JPF gig because it exposes you to the industry, and you are building a legacy in the business. It opens doors for you, and you get to mingle with people in the businesses. You don't do it for money but for ego...to be remembered as an internet community pioneer and the founder of a great on line organization. It gave you the opportunity to travel and meet "the industry" and accomplish an initial goal you had...to write a somg with a musician from every one of the US states.


Should we condemn you for these "selfish reasons"? Just because your "currency" is not cash, does that make your reason somehow more noble?


Not charging for a service is a choice and sometimes it is a strategic choice made for business or personal reasons. But that does not mean that charging for it is unethical.

Oh man, am I really over this sh*t.

Seems to me, those that have actually done something in life are on one side, and the wannabes are on the other.

I'm no superstar, yet there's plenty of ( well known ) folks who will come around to my joint and say hey. I wonder why ?

Morality is a judgement call. No more, no less.

And whom do I wish to be aligned with ? A rag tag bunch of folks who will rip each others eyeballs out, then sit down and have a beer, and get on with life.

I love you guys, but sometimes I just wish to bang my head on the desk till it bleeds.

Be seein ya'll.

cheers, niteshift

So go ahead and bang Night.
I can never understand why some people have to resort to personal insults when someone disagrees with their point of view.

it's the "done something's" versus the "wannabees"
or maybe those who see the forest from the trees
I wonder if you can tell which is which
in any case, the music biz sez life's a bitch

So pay you money and spin the wheel
no way to know if you'll get a raw deal
maybe it's blume, taxi or blazetrak
but in every case you still need jack

Whatever some might think of Brian's reasons for offering his time and hard work to this sight is irrelevant, it cost YOU nothing.
I think that's the point.-Dana

I must admit, if Blazetrak had Bennett or Streisand on their critiquing roster I'd be seduced. Even Harry Connick, Jr, Michael Buble, or Diana Krall.

John

Oh my.....

Over 300 posts, over 1,700 views and what have you learned, what have you lost and what have you gained?

There are only THREE reasons to be here that are productive:

1. Greg, who I am interested in what he has to say made a post, you've all read it.

2. Everyone posts their take/experience on it, all different, but they are personal points of view.

3. Wait for Brian's take because lets face it, us newbies need that perspective.


Then, you made the best decision for yourself and move on, it is your life and money, who are we to TELL each other WHAT to do, just do what is best for you considering your mentors advice.

Instead, we have folks who will argue their point of view to the detriment of the board, trying to change everyone's mind and make them define every minute detail of their ideas.

Also, we have the folks who zoom in and out and drop comments meant to stir the pot to keep things going, for what purpose really?? Please stop instigating this.

Either you are lonely, argumentative or stubborn, but you are caught in a circle my friends, no one is going to stand up and proclaim that you are "RIGHT" or the "WINNER", there is no winning. You had your 15 minutes to state your ideas...now move on.

There are lyrics left unread and songs left un-listened to and most of the FREE commenters that we all wish would listen to our stuff are trapped on this thread.

BIG JIM, when is the last time you listened to my songs...I sit around wishing you would, but is this more important to you? I'm on two boards you are on and nothing, what have I done?? Mr. Robinson?? How about you? Maybe I need to start a big argument to get your interest, if I became controversial, would I get your attention?? Or aren't you interested in helping me out (I am using myself as an example but am representing all posters who are serious and need comments).

I do not mean any disrespect in what I have just said, but some of you don't understand that we all sit and wait for your attention and wonder why you don't give it, maybe you don't realise your importance here. I appreciate your "take" on this subject, but it was heard over 1,700 times, is there nothing else to do here?

There are many people who aren't even at the point of being able to consider this service idea, but we will never get there if JPF freezes up because everyone wants to be right and not be polite to one another.

I think the good, bad and ugly of this company has been fleshed out enough...can we go back to work now?

I know you are all clammering to be heard and understood, but you had your say, what more do you need? I NEED SOMEONE TO LISTEN TO MY DING DANG SONGS and some of the best people are over here caught in this never ending circle and not going anywhere!

I am sorry for raising my voice, I'm a little bit frustrated.

Tammy

You're obviously right Niteshift.


It is far better to pay to belong to IAC and hope that someone in the industry drops by, looks through all the independent artists there, and finds your work, then may or may not listen to it. In any event, you'll never know who was there, who listened, what they thought...but that's better right?


And dangling the free "bronze service" in front of you, then going for the upsell to paying for it because a free, two song, 8mb limit, and limits to usable templates, stations etc is nothing, well, that's OK right?


Maybe you should pay for the more premium Platinum or Gold service? Or the cheaper Silver service if you can't afford those? Oh wait, I see you do pay for one of those plans. Sounds like blatent "market segmentation" to me. But that's OK right? Just find how much someone can afford or are willing to pay and charge them that. Just make sure the introductory free stuff is very limiting. That's OK right?


That you are prepared to pay to "broadcast" to a wide, undefined audience, using a vehicle that makes you one of many choices that makes it almost impossible to stand out, but balk at paying to "narrowcast" your work to a specific audience for the specific purpose of getting through their door is beyond me. But hey, your money and your choice.

Dayson, my point was that Brian made a choice to make it free...but that does not mean all things that help other get ahead in the business should be...and that his choice to make it free is based on individual motivation, be it a business decision or a personal decision....and most importantly, people always do things based on "what's in it for me?...so that even if you are not paying for it, there is a benefit to providing it for free.


The internet allows for lots to be free because the revenue model makes it free to consumers. Youtube, Google, Facebook etc...they're all free for you, but make tons of money and are worth billions.


I created a Canadian tax forum, kinda like a jpf for tax professionals, that is free them...but it is a strategic asset to me....beyond gaining about 140 tax partners across Canada, it is a strategic fit in a suite of websites I operate for the benefit of Canadian business owners and their professionals...and I'm planning more. They're free for users, but would not have been so unless there was something in it for me.


You critique lyrics and\ or interact here because

1) you want your own work critiqued
2) you want to learn the craft better
3) you want to develop on line relationships with others
4) it's free
5) insert your own "what's in it for me?

No one does anything without a reason that speaks to "what's in it for me"

All right, folks, move along. Everyone go home. There's nothing to see here. Just move along, everyone. It's all over. Move along.

So now we have people coming into this forum telling the posters to "Move along".
Thread police?

Tammy
I spent a great deal of time over the years in the Lyric and MP3 forums. That I choose to not participate there at this time is my choice. After a couple thousand critiques I needed a break.
Like Brian says, JPF is not just the lyric forums. They are a minor part of JPF.
How many of the 50,000 members ever even log on here.

I feel as though a very unfair picture of me has been painted, and I feel it necessary to defend myself.

I would just like to post a PRIVATE MSG I sent to Brian on June 9th 2010...Yes 2010, immediately after my very first post on JPF which can be found here (please note the times of the posts):

http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthr...k&topic=0&Search=true#Post823870

#135079 - 06/09/10 08:13 PM

Hello Brian,

I just posted a topic about our company Blazetrak and I just wanted to make sure we werent breaking any forum rules with the style of our post. We know how messageboards can be about advertisements and we do understand. I read the FAQ's and I think we are safe. Please let me know if it is acceptable.

We have a very legitimate business that that musicains all over the world are finding VERY useful, and we just want to share the information. I would also be happy to speak with you directly if you feel like you need a little mre information on us before determining the validity of our service.

Thanks,
Ron

I only post this to completely refute Brian's statement about me not coming to him in the very beginning to have an open dialogue between me and him personally to discuss Blazetrak. He did not respond to that message just for the record. Since I received no response from him, i continued to post openly, and assumed I was in the clear. It was not until THIS post (almost a year later) started by a member of your community, unbeknownst to me, that there is now a problem.

Also, never once have I disrespected Brian, or anyone else within this community. I disagreed with Brian, and gave my reasons. I am not obligated to give a counteroffer. Never once did I insult you Brian. You completely twisted the words that I wrote to service your own agenda. I never said that your opinion means nothing to YOUR community. Here is what I said just so we are clear:

People from your membership have already used our service and will continue to do so (while paying our fees) if they feel it can help THEM with or without your blessing, and I am sure they will come back and report their findings anyway. You run a great organization and I commend you on it, but at the end of the day, people will make their own decisions on what is best for them, and whether something can be of use to them, regardless of what anyone else says or thinks. I am willing to bet on that side of the human character.

Now if you are reading correctly, what I said was that people are going to make their own decisions at the end of the day regardless of what anyone else thinks, and that is human nature. For you to imply that I said your opinion solely means nothing is just ridiculous. If anyone should be insulted it should be me. First you did not tell the truth in regards to me reaching out to you, which maybe says a little about your credibility, and second you managed to relate me to a prostitute, a crook, a scammer, risky, a spammer, a leech, illogical, abusive to your members and probably a few others I missed. Is that how you treat visitors to your community who happen to disagree with your stance? Also, if anyone happened to do any research of Blazetrak, we offer SEVERAL free critiques and opportunities as well.

Again Brian, I have nothing but respect for what you managed to build here, and clearly your members respect you. At the end of the day, and this is what I attempted to say before: People will make their own decisions in regards to what they think will work for them. Are you entitled to your opinion, of course you are. Do I think you should bad mouth me and my company or any other company that you never even tried in the first place, well I think that is a little unfair. But hey, this is your house and you run it the way you please. Im just a visitor.

Either way, I think this is a great debate. Its unfortunate that it turned ugly. I hope I am still welcome here. Time will tell.

Ron

Three or more pages have vanished....

I am almost ready to post a new topic. Blazetrak, My experience with them. YES I have used them, a few times as well.

Unless loads ask me not to do it. Don't want a war lol

God Bless Roy and Helen

Naw they're still there Roy--I get 'em--Click on "First" down there at the bottom and they'll come up

1) I hate to see Ott..or anyone else.."bounced" for his Difference of Opinion. I LIKE folks with some Quirkiness & "Attitude" (as opposed to Yes-Men & Milktoasts...)

2) Even when they're wrong:(I'm LEANING towards OKing BT, but said in my response I'd be spending money on DEMOS [That I'd consider VERY Commercial] BEFORE I'd be testing the waters with Blazetrak.)

3) I certainly respect Brian's Opinion...after all, we're all here together for Free/he HAS been at this for Quite Some Time. VERY scandal-free, too, if you'd care to remember.

4) I'd been a TAXI Member for 3 years/made it to One Road Rally. They are GREAT Folks and DO Deliver/You're an idjut if you DON'T go to the Road Rallies & Interact/Make Your Connections.
I only had ONE "Referral" in all that time...simply 'cuz I didn't have the $5-per-burrito very often to send. (They also offer a reduced rate for every year you re-up your membership..& it was FREE if you brought in 2 new members, as-well. Dunno if BT offers any such Incentives...& if not, Why?)

5) I don't blame Greg for Buying-&-Trying BT, since sometimes the ONLY Way to find out IF something works IS to shell-out some loot & See What Happens NEXT. Everyone here seems to be in a BIG Hurry to see IF this is the Next Big Thing. (AND to sorty "Kill The Messenger"..too.) (Anyone remember when the only way a Rock Band could get a gig in L.A. was to PAY the Bar?)

Brian..& Ron..have both given us a LOT to think about..Greg too.
(Who was that celeb who said "Be COOL, Mah Babies"..?)

Best Wishes & Big Appreciative Hugs,
Stan

Greg I am writing this in the hope that this will benefit you in some way and clear the air. Now I think you are a bright and talented individual. You have proved that your music is successful and you are dedicated and enthusiastic about your craft. It does not rock my boat but that is to be expected given that your music is aimed specifically at the teen market...I am 57 so grew out of that infatuated teenager phase about forty years ago. Now you have and will make a lot of mistakes and bad errors in judgement...I certainly did at your age. You are young and with ALL youth comes vulnerability, impetuousness, inexperience, a tendency to readily accept things at face value and a certain naive gullibility that some unscrupulous folk will use to their advantage. I know cause I and most others had these same traits when younger but we grew up and grew out of them. It is all part of the growing up process. We learn by our mistakes and it makes us stronger and wiser. Sometimes older more experienced people will look at things from a more balanced skeptical and objective POV. We know that if a thing looks too good to be true or offers something for nothing or some wonderful thing that others cannot there is generally a catch or it is a scam. Often we are right but sometimes we are wrong. The important lesson that experience teaches is to ask probing questions, be skeptical and sometimes cynical and dubious about some people and their setups. Honest people running honest business will happily provide evidence of legitimacy answer any probing questions frankly and honestly and usually come recommended by many. Now I and some others smelled a rat and heard alarm bells ring when you posted the Blazetrak promo and I have heard or seen nothing to quieten the bells. You on the other hand still seem to think it is a worthwhile venture and see little wrong.
When I was about seventeen a well known impresario and agent type heard me singing. He introduced himself and said that he could get me recording contracts and a slot on Top of The Pops etc. I was over the moon and was sure I would be the next Elvis. Now at seventeen in the UK a parent or guardian has to sign on behalf of a minor. My dad, now passed away, was a very clever man....he was skeptical and did some research into this guy and the outfit he was running. He refused to sing the contract. I pleaded with my dad but he still refused saying it was for my own good. I was angry as hell and hated my dad I even told him that. Turns out the guy was even worse than my dad thought and a few acts fell foul of him and his operation. He swindled people out of literally millions. It was only later that I knew I had a narrow escape and was thankful my dad had the presence of mind to do what he did.
Sometimes listening to the voice of truly well meaning experienced people is better than a youths gut instinct.

The most significant thing in this whole thread (from my perspective) is the fact that Blaze Trak (unsurprisingly) declined Brian's offer. You know why? Because they know that the whole experiment would take longer than their fly-by-night operation will last.

I just don't get why anyone would give Blaze Trak (or anything like it) money for some bland critique. And I am bewildered as to the strength of feeling in defence of this nonsense!

Of course, people can do as they please. There is no template for how to make the most of being an independent musician - merely a list of things to avoid.

Frankly you'd be better off buying promo space on Soundclick than using Blaze Trak. At least you get something for your money! lol

Dan

Actually Ron, the truth about your company is coming out more and more clearly now.

I did acknowledge that I appreciated you sent an email before you posted on your very first post (anyone can click his name and read it). But nice try to paint me in a negative light.

We welcome anyone who wants to be a positive part of our message board community. Marc is a perfect example. He doesn't run ADS here, he offers free valuable advice (far superior to what I read your expensive staff offered the gullible Roy and Helen by the way based on what he posted elsewhere). But you never really did much of value here to anyone but yourself.

Plus, as time has passed, some concerns have been raised about your company and your practices, including some very negative things revealed again by Roy. For example:

You don't refund money back even when the critique person someone pays for never responds. Instead, now you give credits back. Some might call that bait and switch or a scam. No matter what it is called, it's a rip off in my opinion.

It also seems quite clear that these critiques are so short and empty (for Roy they last less than a minute and a half according to his recap) and the advice given is far less than can be found for free from even the most rank amateurs who often write far superior critiques on our lyric boards (for free). If the quality of the advice is equal to or better than what your professionals are giving, where is the value? Remember, you yourself made it clear that your company has NOTHING to do with anything beyond the critique itself. To state or imply spending money with your company gives you anything more would be innaccurate according to you. So Roy has clearly exposed the worthless quality of the responses when compared to FREE advice given all over the net. The fact that it comes from a famous person at most is a vanity play and nothing more. (And remember, if something MORE comes out of it, well, that's not something you have anything at all to do with. If you imply more, well that could cause a lot of legal trouble if it didn't actually happen for everyone. So you can't make that claim).

Blazetrak has gotten lots of publicity and you've managed to take money from folks I brought together. But if they read this, they have only themselves to blame. On the other hand, I will no longer allow any promotional support of your company until I can independently verify the value. You've refused that, so you are no longer invited to post info about your company, nor will I allow (when I find it) anyone else to do the same without my permission in advance. As you've now stated twice, nothing anyone says makes a difference to whether or not someone will use your service (see above for the exact words used) so that would include me.

We'll see.

That concludes this enlightening discussion. Now on to Roy's post before we move on to more useful ways to spend time and money on your career.

Brian