JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Lady GaGa rules JPF!

Big Jim, nothing you say can convince me that at the heart of this, its not about personal taste and, for the industry, about impersonal demographics.

If I recall tight, you've played with the folks from Nazareth. Now being Scottish yourself, I can see how you like them. They've had some widespread success with some of their stuff, had others cover some of their work, and they continue to release CDs. And they've had a long career.

But although I thought some of their stuff was fine, generally, they're not my cup of tea...

Now to the Scottish music scene, they're probably awesome...to a large segment of the the hard rocking crowd, they're awesome, to music purists who are into hard rock, they're masters of their craft....,

Me, I really like Everything But The Girl...another Scottish duo...their "unplugged" , I believe, started the "unplugged trend" and their covers of say "Time After Time, and "Allison" are great and their own "Driving" is a really good song...but again, not everyone's cup of tea.

You and I have both had a lot of exposure to music. I think Audience was one of the most influential bands that ever came out of Britain...but many folks go duh? who are they? I have to think you know who I am talking about.

But in the end...all this just says...it's subjective.

As far as what the industry does with acts...I can't agree more....but record companies are like venture capitalists. No amount of backing, publicity, cajoling, payola is going to save a bad act, so many CDs end up in the remainder bin and footnotes in music history, and record companies lose millions...but do make up for it with the Neil Youngs, Paul Simons, and yes, LGG.

Time will tell if she lasts.

This is not meant to invalidate your point...it only re inforces what I'm trying to drive home. Your opinion is your opinion, it is "fact" for you....but that does not make it a universal truth.

High John
I agree with most of what you say....Apart from the bit about bad acts. Milli Vanilli are just one example of the industry trying to pull the wool by kidding us on that crap has talent. I bet both you and I could both cite many other examples. There is different tastes obviously and I probably have different taste than most others. But hey we as musicians can appreciate skill and talent whether it is your cup of tea or not. By the same token we know when folk cannot sing or play guitar etc etc etc regardless of what kind of stuff they perform. I just watched La Roux (she just had a number one UK hit a month or so ago) She performed covers of classic songs for charity singing live on a tribute program and it was like amateur night at a karaoke. She was woefully bad. I mean woefully bad. Her mother is a famous soap actress.....mmmmmn I wonder how she got a break. All I am saying is that too many people get fame these days when they do not have the talent to back it up. I am sure we both know folk who are as good if not better as gaga or a lot of the others and could do as good a job. I bet they are not making the money they do. Why cannot the truly talented people get a shot first.
I stand by my comments that the industry is corrupt. Do not be fooled into thinking that people who sell millions of records necessarily have real talent.
Audience...I am sure I saw them back in the seventies backing Led Zep but am not that familiar with their work.
EBTG have had successs and I am familiar with their work....not exactly my cup of tea but can see the talent they have.

Man are you dead on with Milli Vanilli...and now that we are more or less on the same page...


No question there are acts that get promoted that should not, by "our standards" get promoted. At the lower end of the food chain, I've seen "managers" put bands together from their other pieces and send them out on the road...not because they're any good, just because it maintains a revenue stream for them.


So no question the business side drives a large part of the agenda, and that is not always a good thing creative wise.


I guess the answer to your key question "why cannot truly talented people get the break they deserve" is that it is an "ideal" at odds with reality.


The best do not always become corporate managers, executives and company CEOs. The best operating software does not necessarily sell the most. The best qualified people do not necessarily become prime minister. That has more to do with how they present themselves, who their friends are, their personal ambitions, drive and capabilities etc.


So talent does not automatically equate to success.


I guess success depends more on making the right connections, seizing the right opportunities, being in the right place at the right time, being easy to work with, having the right parents,...etc


And yeah, that does mean that some great talent gets missed or insufficent exposure....but don't get too excited...because I won't conclude that just because some talent gets missed, that those that do make it deserve it less....

I will though agree that it is true in some cases...like Milli Vanilli, and who can forget the Bay City Rollers ...were they not also Scottish?? As I recall, they were huge for a year or so, then began changing personnel as members began leaving and their record company tried to keep things alive.

We could start a whole new thread about bands that are not the same anymore, but tour on their early cred with no original members...man does that shore up part of your argument...that folks go to see acts that are only names...

And someone mentioned Menudo. Are they not a Brazilian boy band that is now about 5 decades old? They keep cycling through young idols because management owns the name...but it does appeal to the young who know no better...again shoring up your argument.

Nothing like advocating for the other side after scoring points with the one side. What can I say...you chose to "argue" with an INTJ...we're like that. We do it for sport

The Bay City Rollers were from Bay City Mich.

Actually the Bay City Rollers were from Edinburgh, Scotland, just like Big Jim. They got their name by throwing a dart at a map.

I did not know that. (Johnny Carson)

I was just thinking they had some pretty heavy scottish accents for being from MICHIGAN!

It's the insults on the intellgence of those who think differently from you that are the rub. As much as you and I dislike her you and I may still have something very important to learn from Lady Gaga..and of course maybe not. But to discount the intellegence of millions who think differently than you...because they like something you don't? is sorta like putting a bullseye on your back. Anyone can play the snob and say 'she sucks'. Easy. It's harder to identify what she's doing right and not only learn from it but gain from it. WIth her it's hard for me to do that...but I have to.) I've learned so much about songwriting from TaYLOR sWIFT. Some wholly dismiss her as a product of hype. It's the way it's done that either sounds like a difference of opinion or a comment that to me can sound a bit condescending.

Respectfully,

Bill