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Any One Using A Tube Mic

Just picked up the MXL Tube Mic the first one from a few years back.. V69 Tube Mic

It sounds nice but makes noise,it's noisy .. I replaced the tube with a new better one and it's still there.

If the gain is low it's okay but when you raise the fader on the board you can hear it..

R all tube mics this way, this is my first if you can believe that?

Well,
There were tubes before there was solid state, uh transistors. So your question is was all recordings, made with tube equipment noisy. For your answer find some recorded music done before solid state, circa early 60's and listen. Some early Elvis, Perry Como, Frank Sintra come to mind as well as tons of Classical Music. If you are experencing noise in your tube pre-amp you may try buying a new one and see if it is any better. I haven't looked any up recently but I believe one from Musician's Friend for about 29 dollars named Art Pre Amp or something like that is one you can try.

I use the ART Tube preamp. It has some hum if you really crank it and my in-line compressor (with automated threshhold) makes it seem loud until you start singing, but then the hum disappears.

Not long ago I considered getting the same one, but had Big Jim talk me out of it. I researched the mic more in depth, and found out that those MXL's have a bad rep for exactly that.. sounding noisy.

So, I don't think all tube mic's are like that at all, but many MXL's may be. Seems, the decent tube mic's you can get, would be from a Rode K2 and up..

I have heard soundclips from some T-Bone's (cheap German brand) in the low price range, I thought were decent, but haven't tried them yet.

Soundwise, I think you get a similar effect from an exciter and from just putting Autotune on (without actually editing). Much of the current pop/Nashville vocal sound comes from Autotune.

Uh folks, a tube mic and a tube preamp aren't the same thing. The ART Preamp is an outboard unit while a tube mic has the preamp built in.

Of course, I could be mistaken.

[Edit] Oh yeah, tube mics are usually pretty noisy, but you can't beat that warm sound from a good one.

Aw Well,
I may be mistaken but it would be a bit bulky to say the least to build a tube and all the assoicated electronics into a microphone! As one that has been fiddleing with electronics since the 60's you probably won't find a Mic with a tube built into it that works very well! SO, we are talking about a tube pre-amp, used with condenser microphones because the output from the condenser Mic is very weak. The next thing we need is well shelded cable so outside spurrious noises don't leak into the applied signal. In the usual application everything is shelf ready so all you have to do is plug it in and viola!, you are in business. Well designed tube circuts, work perfectly Ok in the audio application and have been for many years. As long as those designs aren't compromised in today's offerings.

Anyone that has looked in a tube amplifier lately will see metal sheilds on pre-amp tubes to prevent outside signals leaking into the circuts.

You know the classic microphones you see in the old film clips, where the mic is mounted with the element below the body of the mic? Those were tube mics, and they were mounted "upside down" to keep the heat generated by the vacuum tubes from damaging the mic element. And yes, they were bulky.

I'm not an expert, but I do have a degree in Broadcast Production Technology.

The Neuman U47 seemed to work pretty well for those four lads from Liverpool who used it on just about every recording they did together.

Hi Ray

Thanks, actually that's not my question not tube equipment just tube microphones?
My pre-amp is fine and my other condenser mics can be cranked up and you bare;y know there on.

The tube mic is noisy put at the same level as the other mics.
And if my recording remote control is on in the room it makes a bad buzzy, whinning noise until i shut off the remote.

Thanks
Mike

Actually two of my other mics are MXL and they are GREAT, no noise and they are the best sounding mics in there price range.
And they are condenser so that theory is out the window lol

Could be a problem with my actual microphone... thought maybe someone may have the same mic or at least a tube mic to narrow things down.

I know the Neuman 147 works great to but these are mics from $1,600 & up.

On all the reviews of the MXL 69 nobody mentioned it being noisy so either they didn't hear it or there mic was fine.

I know the gain is greater in this mic so it can be to levels lower on my mic pre to match the same level as my other condenser microphone. So that's good as you really aren't bothered by the noise. When you push the fader up loud to listen you can hear the noise clearly.

Like a tube amp only amps get guitars blasting through them so who cares? lol but the vocal mic is a bit different.

The mic is nice here is a link to it below.. Perhaps I should have held on and went to the $600 range
I got a good deal on it so i thought I'd check it out..

http://www.mxlmics.com/products/Studio_mics/v69/highres/hr6.jpg

Thanks guys

Sorry, Mike. I was responding to Ray. Yeah, I wish we could both afford some Neumans. That would be nice.

I've heard good things about the MXL tube mics though.

I think all tube mics are somewhat noisy. It's the trade-off for the otherwise incredible sound. I would recommend trying a noise gate for the mic.

AHA. I just re-read your post and think I may have the answer.

I don't believe you need to run the MXL through another preamp. The on-board circuitry should already output a line-level signal. Going through an external preamp is just going to amplify the inherent noise already there.

Another thought: Maybe the noise is coming from the mic's power supply (not the same as a preamp).

Of course, I haven't touched a tube mic in over 20 years. Your mileage may vary (and other disclaimers).

The output of a tube mic will be higher than the output of a dynamic mic but you will still need a mic preamp (unless you are recording very loud sources).

While a tube mic may be slightly noisier than a solid state condenser mic, it shouldn't be noisy enough to require a noise gate on normal vocals or instruments. I suspect that you may have a damp or contaminated capsule. Try putting the mic in a warm airing cupboard or on a warm radiator for a few days to dry it out. Once it is dry, store it in a box with some dessicant to keep it dry.

I have a friend who scours Ebay for non-working mics at low prices. He then dries them out and usually ends up with a great mic for next to nothing.

James.

If your other Mic's are working Ok thn it must be something with that Mic. I seem to have read something about florecent lighting affecting something but it may have been other than recording etc.

Any Condenser Mic should work with any Pre-amp tube or solid state. Usually there is a fairly wide range of impedeances that are compatiable. You might read the fact sheet on that Mic and see what the range of impedeance is and the range of impedeance on the Pre-amp you are using. They may be a bit too far apart to work properly. If so the resulting noise will show up most likely because you have to raise the level too much.

Hi Kev

I would only a noise gate is nice for when your not singing, as soon as you do that noise is getting in with the signal. Just like a gate, when you use them as just a noise reduction they effect the sound terribly..

Ah... Okay that makes sense. I am running through a Class A mic pre. My question on that is if I skip that and go through my mixer that has a mic pre built in it as well naturally. Except your adding on that channel strip as well, all that is on the boards circuitry.

Wait! You gave me an idea Kevin....
The phantom power comes through the mic pre or the mic pre on the mixer. I by pass the mixer with my mic pre in other words it is wired straight to my 24 track machine.

The tube mic uses it's own POWER supply like you said so...

What if I shut off the phantom power on the mic pre, see if the mic still works and if the noise is reduced...

Hmmm! That's new to me, let me try the phantom power off first, then we;ll give that a go.

Mike, I used the same Mic at Rons for the song "Too Little Time", It was great. So were all his vocal sounds for all of his songs.

The only thing was noise from outside activity, and even things in the house that were making sounds, like the air conditioner. Even the guy across the street using his blower! Came through GREAT! So, it will pick up sounds that you may not even notice due to being use to them. But that mic can sure enhance them. Can be the humming of the lights above that mic. Anything! Maybe you're humming a song in your head?! Ha!

Good luck with it. Let it warm up too.

One you get it going, you can even add it to the drum mic mix for a nice overall sound on that track. Just have it near the center of the drums, about a two feet away and about four feet up.

I have never heard of a large/small diaphragm mic (tube or solid state) not needing a preamp. I don't have first hand experience with your mic, if it is a mic with lots of color, the noise might be inherent. Might be a good question for gearslutz.com

Mike

OK, I feel like an idiot. I said preamp when I should have said phantom power. It really is what I meant. I'm gonna blame this one on lack of sleep.

Hi John & Mike

Ah! okay guys I forgot already that I'm online down here is the studio duh! So lets try it right now.

1- Mic is warming up

2- All lights are off in the room the mic is in no floresents.

3- Mic Pre is on but Phantom Power is off

I'll be back in Five....

Nope!

I dont have the umph to try to make this work, taking it apart and changing the tube was enough for me lol
Adios Microphone!

Thanks
Mike

Mike,
I was smitten by the thought of a tube mic also. So I got an Elroy by Cascade. I'm not thrilled with it. I went back to my Studio projects large diaphram for vox and the Audio technica small diaphram for guitar. It was not bad just did not seem as good. I will pull it out and try it if I can't get something to sound right. But mostly it sits in it's case.
Tom

I will tell you this is a tempting mic:
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Microphone/product/sE+Electronics/SE2200a/10/1
Do you have any experience with it Mike?

Tom

I wasn't talking trash about MXL in general. And the V69 Moghami edition has been recommended to me from several, but it seems that with that particular model there's a large quantity of bad mic's. Im sure it sounds great if it's working properly, but it sounds like you just got a bad one.. get another of that same exact model, and it might be just fine..

Mike, I've got a V-69 and it's very quiet. Are you getting hum? Or is it "SSSSHHHHHH?" Are you plugging the mic pre and the power transformer into the same circuit? Do you have a tester to see if it is a protected circuit?

I like mine a lot. I know folks recommend hot rodding them with other tubes, but mine ain't broke so I ain't fixin' it.

Kevin is right, if you're going to use it for a long session, hang it upside down to protect it from the heat.

Alex, what is "three words I've never heard from my wife".

Hi Mike.

The mic you are using has had some bad reviews and would not be my first choice for the money BUT that said it should not produce the noises you are referring to.

Consider the leads.....Most tubes require special leads....check it is the correct type of shielded 7 pin lead you are using and that the connections joints solders etc are OK. Amazing how I have solved probs in the past just by changing leads. Dodgy leads are sometimes the cause of many head scratching probs relating to mics.

FYI All tubes and condensers require phantom power. I doubt one would give a signal without it. Some tube mics have their own transformers and special cables.

Amazing how much any mic improves with a good clean. Just make sure you are careful and follow instructions.
Old mics become cruddy and require cleaning...check out the links for further info.
http://mixonline.com/gear/tips/techs-files-mysteries-old-tube-mics/

http://archive.ampage.org/threads/4/misc/228343/Cleaning_a_Condenser_Microphone-1.html

I would not use such a mic through a tube preamp such as presonus or ART. imo it is a bit like recording with FX rather than dry. These things should be added post record.

Tubes tend to send out stronger signals than other mics so watch levels.....They also tend to pick up more outside noises such as fans and hums from speakers etc so watch placement.

Sometimes a tube upgrade will improve things.... check the capsule for scratches dirt etc.

One last point..... tubes require warming up prior to recording they will play up causing pops and sometimes sound funny without it....it depends on temp and humidity as to how long a warm up is needed but several mins minimum.

Is Event still making Tube Mics?

I have a tube mic made by AKG which I left at a friends house (along with a bunch of other new gear) and never picked up and that was uh.... 14 years ago just as I was starting JPF. I wonder if he still has that stuff?

Brian

Jim,
While most, if not all tube mics, as they are normally referred to, are also condenser mics the inclusion of the tube (valve) requires real power, not phantom power, thus the out board power supply. I have not seen, nor have I heard of a tube mic that runs with phantom power.

A phantom powered condenser microphone will use the standard 3 pin XLR cords for their power while a tube mice will require a totally different cable setup up, coming off a stand alone power supply, usually a seven pin cable.
Remember the tube is the amplifier on a tube mic and so requires real voltage to get the amperage necessary to power up the tube, unlike the phantom powered condenser mic with a solid state amplifier that requires much less amperage and can work with phantom power.

Dak said it much more eloquently than my earlier attempt.

Dak....a blonde moment....I've been getting a few recently..... I am aware of the diff. I should have said all tubes and condensers require a power supply rather than saying specifically phantom power. I did however say that tubes require their own special cables and power transformer. Thanks for the correction.

Ah my friend, not a correction, rather a clarification.
I know you know the the difference, as does Kevin.
I just figured it'd be a good idea to post what I did to, maybe, make it a bit easier for others to understand.

Mike, I have not read each and every reply so this may have been addressed. If so, I apologize.

#1, tube mics are, inherently, a bit noisier. It's the nature of the beast in relation to solid state.
#2, replacing the tube with a newer tube does not always mean it's a better tube. I don't know what tube is in that mic but you might look for a NOS tube of the same number and see if that makes a difference since the old tubes are better simply because of the way they were built.
#3, check solder joints

You should pick those up Bri, then leave em at my house for 14 years lol

Thanks Dak & Jim & Kev

I used it recently and found for one thing I do not need to turn the mic pre up as loud so that helps keep the noise down.

Just some notes - I replaced the original tube with an Electro Harmonic tube highly recommend for this mic

The mic sounds GREAT the singers using it noticed that right away.
Without a doubt MXL makes the best cheapest mics I have ever encountered even more so than Rhodes and I like those as well.

This mic has it's own power supply box and the Mogambi seven pin
cable. I run my mics through a very good expensive mic pre I even tried shutting the phantom power off.

When I turn up the volume loud on my mixer I hear the noise it's not detectable in the recordings which is most important but I know it's there so...

I think lots of people are recording with noisy computers in the room and don't even hear what I'm talking about. lol
It's okay though it's still sounding nice on songs, the mic could use a bass roll off but i can take of that on the board.

Still a GREAT mic for $200 bucks! View it below.

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/0/5/6/482056.jpg

I had a tube mic when I was a child. Bathroom paper core wrapped in tinfoil. That counts, doesn't it?

On some of the other boards, dedicated to audio gear and
methods, a new mic maker has been getting some raves for
their Stellar CM-6 tube mics.

Google for:

Stellar mic CM-

and you'll get lot's of links to check out.

Stellar Sound upgrades mics, made in China, to a quite
respectable performance level, at a comparatively low
price.

However, their output rate is somewhat low, so you
have to jump when stock becomes available.

They sell their mics on E-Bay, and they go quickly!

Thought y'all might like to know,
Emmit sycamore

You should NOT be using phantom power with your MXL mic! Using it probably isn't the source of the noise, because the mic's power supply should be "blocking" it from hitting the mic, but it's "good etiquette" to have phantom power off when not needed. It *can* destroy a mic!

If you are using an external mic pre, you should have the pre plugged directly into your ADC. If you must plug the pre into your mixer for monitoring or whatever, make sure the input channel on your mixer is set to line level (+4dBu). This will bypass the extra, and unneeded mic preamp in the mixer and likely reduce your noise floor.

Keep in mind, some mics are noisier than others, and the MXL might be a noisy one.

Matt

Great catch Matt. That slipped by a lot of us.

I said it!

Thanks guys thanks Matt

Yeah I tried no phantom power and that didn't do the trick.
Tonight I skipped using my mic pre and went from the mic's power source box into my mackie mixer... Hardly any noise at all... Perhaps none whatsoever.

That is cool so now at least I can SELL it.....

I didn't buy a two thousand dollar mic pre so that i couldn't run any mic through it, but instead have to use the pre on my mixer.

So I'm glad it doesn't make noise going straight through a mixing board. Goodbye!

My set up is weird. The MX24 24 track recorder has the snake coming in and out of it's Analog to digital card. Those cables all go to my mixer accept the first 4 channels of my mx 24 they are for the mic pre.. I by pass the mixer and send those into my patch bay.

This way the mic goes through the patch bay to the compressor
and then straight to the 24 track machine...

I'll try with and without the compressor as it may be set incorrectly. It should be on +4 but who know what's going on back there anymore. I can't climb back to check

Sorry if I stole your thunder, Kevin. Great minds think alike!

Matt

No problem, Matt. Sometimes I just chime in to let everyone know I'm still around!