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Hi JPF'rs,

As someone here suggested, I need the full meal deal with critiques. I can take it, go ahead, use and abuse me! As always, production notes will be saved for later if I ever re-do this one for good. It's lyrics and melody I care about the most. Let me have it!

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7582480

REASON
© Ricki E. Bellos

He left for the Bitterroots in the spring
He headed west saying west's the best
Since he didn't take everything
I waited for his call all summer and fall
Waiting's not what I would choose
Sometimes you win but mostly you lose

I need a reason to forgive
All the lies he told and the loss of my soul
I need a reason to forgive

Crazy Woman Creek runs through my yard
Don't know her real name but we're one and the same
Twisting and turning, not going far
Afraid to let go of what we know
But living in fear
Is what brought me here

I need a reason to forget
All the sweet things he said to me
I need a reason to forget

Winter came down with a howling blow
Still no boot prints in the snow
So I pour more wine to pass the time
But drinking doesn't ease the pain
It just brings it back again

I need a reason to believe
That love is real and I will heal
I need a reason to believe

I need a reason
I need one good reason
I need a reason
I need any reason at all

Hi there Ricki,

Nice to meet you. I saw that you had just posted this, so I came over and looked over your lyrics and took a listen. It has a Joan Baez kinda feel to it. I was just getting ready to sign out for now, when I noticed this....but promise I'll come back to it when I have a bit more time, and I'll take a closer look.

Kind wishes,
Gail

I like the melody but usually prefer a little more upbeat quicker tempo but seeing as this is a kind of downer lyric it prolly fits fine. I put a few notes nothing much but maybe some places to think about...don't change if what you have feels right to you. Good Luck

Hi Ricki. Well you said you wanted the full treatment so I'll try to be coherent with my treatment of you and your song, hehe.
Here goes:

When I first listen to a song, I listen without reading the lyrics just like if I was listening on the radio or a CD. If it catches my ear I keep listening after the first little bit. If not I change the channel or go to the next track on the CD. That's how I like my own songs to be listened to. That's the real world as opposed to song critique boards where you feel you have to find something specific to like or dislike if that makes sense.

If I like what I hear I'll listen again with the lyrics in front of me. Now, in all honesty (got my song critic hat on here) I didn't really like what I heard the first time around. Musically it was kind of boring to me. But I then listened with the lyric, paying attention to what was being sung and I liked it a little bit. Listened again and it started growing on me. Maybe just a little faster tempo, not much, would have caught my ear the first time around.

Anyway, the more I listened the better I liked it. I started hearing what could be done with some sparsely added instrumentation. What I'm saying is that the more I listened the better I liked it. It's got some great imagery in the lyric. I like the line about Crazy Woman Creek and not knowing the real name, just the name you give it. Winter came down with a howling blow, Still no boot prints in the snow is another great line. Very descriptive.

You have a voice that sometimes reminds me of Carly Simon by the way. That's a good thing IMO.

I think the melody combined with the tempo threw me off the first listen but as I said, the more I listened the better I liked it and the more it seemed to take shape in my mind. By the way, I usually don't spend that much time on something that doesn't strike me right off the bat. Aren't you lucky,HaHa.

Anyway, after about six or seven listens It's really grown on me. I also like the way you sang in a higher register later in the song which heightened the experence.

OK, I don't know how useful all of that was but I'm being honest with you. In the end as I could hear the possibilities I really began to dig it, man...er...woman.

Keep or sweep everything I've said, naturally. If you have any questions you can PM me or call the FBI.LOL Seriously, I've grown to like it.

Steve

Hi Gail,

Nice to meet you. Thanks for stopping. Come again when you have a chance. I'd like to know what you think.

Ricki

Hi Ted,

Thanks for taking time to listen. The tempo can come up a notch, I agree, just couldn't play it any faster at the time. I think I could now. I'd like to address some of your comments on the lyrics.
"west's the best" was a bow to Jim Morrison. That's gotta stay!
I was going for a "you win some, you lose some" vibe, so used "you", more conversational, I thought. This woman is waiting around for a man that isn't going to come and has been there before so, for her, she has mostly lost. It's not an optimistic song.
It's not a river, it's a creek and this one isn't very big. Living in fear refers to the line just before "Afraid to let go of what we know". "Here" refers to where she is at this moment in her life.
"howling soul". Now there's an image! I'll think about that one.
Thanks again for the detailed comments. Always appreciated.

Ricki

Hi Steve,

Thanks for taking so much time with this one. I understand what you mean about the music being boring. It was my main concern, too plodding, too morose. I can up the tempo but don't really know where to take it musically that won't change the overall mood. It's really cool you listened that many times but most people aren't that patient. If it's boring, they will move on, like you said. I appreciate your honesty and I'm glad you found it worth all those listens. By the way, that higher register was quite a stretch because I have a rather limited range. It was a
good day.
Thanks again for your time.

Ricki

"Crazy Woman Creek runs through my yard"

OMG! Are we neighbors??!?

Love that line......

and the "west" one too - being a Doors fan

"Waiting's not what I would choose
Sometimes you win but mostly you lose"

I kind of understood the second line here to be referring to the first. And I agree. If waiting is involved, most times you lose. In my experience anyway

Lyrically, I think this is very strong, Ricki. Musically, I share your concern that if you try to change it much, you'll lose the feel. It's got a good feel now.

I used to judge photographic competitions. Each judge had about 5 seconds to score an image. The ones that won were the ones that jumped out and grabbed you.

But if you stuck one of those on your wall, you'd be tired of it after a day or two.

There's something to be said for a picture (and a song) that sneaks up on you. This one snuck up on me...

Scott

Hi Ricki,

I've never really been able to find much, if anything wrong with your work & this is no different.
Makes me mad & goofy that I can't find fault here.
Maybe you'll screw up on the next one & let me give ya hell.
ps...

I really like this...
Still no boot prints in the snow

And you vocals are very sweet, love the liitle ooohs, etc, etc.
Thanks for the putting a smile on my face, is that ok to say !!

Have a good weekend.

Calvin


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/calvinstewart

To me it is appealing - it draws me into the song. The music is really forms the basis here. It is a little unusual in the sound and I found that intiguing.

I like the vocals - up front and intimate sounding. It has a haunting quality. I like the phrasing and the tone.

I like the guitar with the song. Maybe just add another instrument later in the song to give it a lift.

Tom

Hi Ricki

Well guess I'm just a big fan too -- 'cause I really like this. Especially the Chorus -- I wanted to sing a harmony along with you... so that my suggestion... add a harmony part to your chorus - maybe start at the 2nd one and build on it More at the end. jm

Hi again Ricki,

Well I told you I'd come back to look and listen a little longer.....you have some great lines in there...two of my favories:

*Crazy Woman Creek runs through my yard
*Still no boot prints in the snow {this one tugs at your heart!}

The only thing I was going to mention was the line"He headed west because wests the best..." I was going to suggest maybe something like....When he headed out, he went west... {so you didn't have to use west twice}...but then as I was scrolling down, I noticed you mentioned to someone that this line was a bow to Jim Morrison and had to stay... so, I can understand that.

I think you have captured the feel of the lyrics, in your vocals and melody ...a woman who has loved, and is coming to grips with the fact..that she has lost.



Kind Wishes,
Gail

Hi Ricki,
Your lyric is good song poetry. The "drinking doesn't ease the pain" line/idea feels a little worn; I think there could be just a real succint image there, that shows the pain, instead.

In the last line of each chorus, I think you could say simply "I need a reason", shifting the focus ever so slightly to the "overall reason" the singer dives into at the end.

I think the chord structure and music and melody are all working together. You sounded a little unsure about a few notes. More singing will overcome this for sure. Overall very nice, this is the kind of writing and music that I really like. Lyrics reflective of inner states, yet very visual.

Mike

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the listen and comments. I like being able to sneak up on people! I wish everyone was more patient but in this world of immediate gratification...I've heard you have 20 seconds to impress a listener, then they're gone. Guess this wouldn't make it on the radio but it has a lot of good company.

Ricki

Hi Calvin,

Thanks for stopping for a few minutes and commenting.

"Makes me mad & goofy that I can't find fault here."
You're just not trying hard enough!

Glad I could make you smile and return the favor. You sure have given me plenty to smile about. Thanks.

Ricki

Not really sure what to make of it really, I guess it's not my sort of music. There is certainly a good amount of effort and intent in the song. Sorry I could not say better things for you, good luck with your writing.

Dude

Hi Ricki,

I like what you have here. I also think you've captured the feel of the lyric with the music. The singer is looking for a "reason" ...she's crying out....and you accentuate that with the melody in the chorus I think.

Nice work.

Kristi

Hi Tom,

Thanks for listening and I'm glad it appealed to you. You're very kind. More instruments, got it! Thanks.

Ricki

Hi JM,

Thanks for taking time to listen and comment. I couldn't want a better writer as a fan than you, so thanks for that! I never heard harmony for this one, so I'll to work at that a little harder.

Ricki

Ricki
I like this a lot, it has a folk, bluesy sound to it ...
lots of feeling ... good job

i like it alot my friend

Hi again Gail,

Thanks for returning to comment. I'm glad you took the time and enjoyed the listen.

Ricki

Hi Mike,

Thanks for taking time to listen and comment. I'll think about the lyric suggestions, the drinking one in particular. I especially appreciate the "Lyrics reflective of inner states, yet very visual" comment. What writer could ask for more? Thanks.

Ricki

Ricki,

This gave me a flashback of driving out west listening to Neil Young. This is the kind of song that sneaks up on you. I like the mellow feel and the melody and I think it's a really nice one.

Perhaps it could be a bit stronger lyrically. What's missing for me in the story is the big kahuna. Why did he leave? That's the reason she needs probably more than anything. I think at least one of your evolving choruses should address that directly. Not that she will know, just that she needs to know..I'm sure you get what I'm saying.

Also, I love that image of the Bitteroot Mountains. I think you could work something in the lyric to utilize that image as well.

Good luck with it. That's all I got..only a few fries.

Hi Ricki,

I always love hearing your voice, and this is no exception.
I enjoy the style of the song, and I understand the lyrics. The only thing I felt was that it seems that it is a little timid, like there could be some areas that you are not sure of the delivery of the lyrics, maybe a little forced or loose to get them to work in the rhyme scheme?

Overall, I like it, but think it might have a little room for a look at the lyric for singing purposes,

Just my thoughts, hope you understand,

Letha

Hi Ricki,

Loved this! Has a kind of New York singer/songwriter quality (Vanessa Carlton, Norah Jones, Suzanne Vega) to it, for me.

Nice hook too, really wonderful.

Let me start by saying that its not really my kind of music, but I thought it was a very cool song. It did not grab me at first, but the chorus got me into it. Begininning with "waitings not what I would choose" is when I start hearing things I liked. I think that it finishes very strong. Reminds me of something... maybe a combination of early Sheryl Crow and Tracy Bonham.

Hi Dude, formerly known as Mark,

Thanks for listening, even if it did turn your hair white!

Ricki

Hi Kristi,

Thanks for stopping to listen and comment. I'm glad you liked this one.

Ricki

Hi Dan,

Thanks for taking time to listen and for the "bluesy" comment. I'm glad you like it.

Ricki

Ricki, I just don't think this one works that well and doesn't quite do it for me, and it's one I'd put aside and work on other songs - I say that as I know you have to pick and choose carefully the songs you're going to invest in and try and to something with, and I know you have better songs in your locker than this.

Lucian

ok Ricki you want honest

it is -as said earlier-boring.....its ok as a coffeehouse kinda song but has no commercial possibility at that tempo....

the deal in Nashville at the BMI cattle calls where theres a guest publisher listening to one song apiece from 50 assembled writers is that they always ask for uptempo femle positive songs.......then the session proceeds and those who brought slow ballads slowly sink in their chairs waiting for their song to be played and the gallows to drop within 45 seconds.......no matter what you bring its still a tough sell-but they have never in the time I have been in Nashville said hey folks bring us more slow ballads...I mention that not to slam you but cause I know you have some great lively stuff they would love....you are a great singer and songwriter and I think you should do more submissions of your best stuff and less writing of new stuff..I want you and others to have songs picked up and be whooping it up on the success forum...it drives me crazy when folks who have written better stuff than I have dont send it in to Music Row-LA-NYC-licensing catalogs etc..........so please go through stuff you got thats uptempo female positive leads and send out the best you got...ps-when you send out old stuff never have a copyright date older than a year-maybe two at most....when the A&R folks see an old copyright date on something they tend to think it has been passed over by everyone else in Nashville or wherever cause its a dog..........simply change the copyright date to 2009.....chances are you didnt get a formal copyright anyway so nobody will ever know.......that tip was given to me by a guy who spent 5 years as a A&R guy for RCA.........good luck with your submissions Ricki!


Tom

Hi Wendy,

Thanks for the listen and comments. I never thought about the reasons why he left. I guess I'm picking up the story at the point where all she wants now is to move on, to forgive and forget and try again. I'm not sure how I would work in more about the mountains. Something else would have to go and I don't know what that would be. Thanks for your thoughts on this one.

Ricki

Hi Letha,

Thanks for taking time with this. I never mind an honest opinion, but I'm not sure I understand your comment.

"...it seems that it is a little timid, like there could be some areas that you are not sure of the delivery of the lyrics, maybe a little forced or loose to get them to work in the rhyme scheme"

Are you saying the rhyme scheme is weak and/or forced? Or that my singing sucks? Because I would have to argue about the former but could totally understand the latter!

Glad you like the style anyway.

Ricki

Hi Magne,

Thanks for stopping by, glad you loved it. Norah Jones style, eh?
I can live with that!

Ricki

Hi Bater,

Nice to meet you. Thanks for giving this time to grow on you and for letting me know. It's amazing what we can find when we allow ourselves to escape our self-imposed style limitations! Rock on!

Ricki

Hey Limey!

So you want the truth, huh? Well, then let me steal a line from the various "American Idol" judges and say "you could sing the phone book and it would still sound fantastic."

Of course, there is the possibility of a slight bias -- given our history and hatred -- but honestly, I think it's lovely. Killer-sad, that's true, but I think that is a your musical pocket so to speak. You're such an emotional and intimate singer, you absolutely NAIL any form of anguish and despair.

Lyrically, you're doing just as well. Such great detail:

Crazy Woman Creek runs through my yard
Don't know her real name but we're one and the same

&

Winter came down with a howling blow
Still no boot prints in the snow

I also dig your evolving chorus and hook!

So I guess I'm not much help as far as any nits go... , but thanks for sharing!

Beth

Hi Lucian,

Long time, no post! Sorry it had to be on one that you couldn't get into. Thanks for stopping by just the same.

Ricki

Hi Tom,

Wow! A double header slam! Can't win 'em all!

Your explanation of what Nashville wants is not new information. I know what the flavor of the month is and have, upon occasion, actually written uptempo female positive songs, but not very many and they are at the bottom of my own personal list of favorite songs.

"I know you have some great lively stuff they would love."

Are you confusing me with someone else? Have we met?

Thanks for taking time to listen, even if it bored you.
I appreciate honesty, even when it cuts to the bone.

Ricki

Ricki,

Just wanted to clarify what I meant. The emotion still seems to be a grieving one. I just think the song would be stronger if she wants a reason, even if she will never know (or the listener will never know) why he left.

Also, I meant that it would be nice to play on the name Bitteroot somewhere in the lyric when I said that it would be nice to work the mountains in.

Sorry, the brain is mush these days. I was painting and varnishing all weekend.

Lol Ricki,

Your singing is always good, didn't mean that at all. I love your sound, always reminds me of Carol King for some reason, who is one of my favorites.

Maybe I shouldnt have said anything if I can't explain it correctly, lol. It just felt like the lyrics were still in the forming stage in some parts, like how I write. I may sing a song time after time after time with different changes in the lyrics before I decide on final ones and say it is done. And I still may change my mind later on! I guess I just felt their could be a few spots that could do with tightening up a little?

Not meaning to offend you at all Ricki, but I respect your skill and talent enough to give you my true thoughts, because I want it to be the best it can be for you. You have a great writing style to me.

I don't want to just comment on songs I love and think are perfect, although I do tend to find myself doing that alot. I wanted to comment on this one because I think it has potential to be better and know you have the skill to do it.

I am no pro critiquer, so remember it is just one amateur opinion on just one of your songs. I ususally love them to death, lol. This takes alot out of me to be even a little negative, so remember how much I like your style and you!

Letha

oh I am sorry Ricki

I can be a real [naughty word removed] sometimes......I fully admit I am a victim of music row syndrome and see my own stuff only as to how it may possibly have commercial potential.......and I do mean well....it just becomes second nature to robotically spout out things when current commercial trends are not obeyed....you are a wonderfully talented singer....and I think I have told you that more than once-once saying if you came here you would be one of the top demo singers in Nashville.....so again I apologize.......its quite obvious you still write stuff for the love and fun of it.....screw Nashville/LA/NYC whatever-attagirl......and dont worry- I am nobody in this town but when I get slammed its by folks with industry titles behind their names....hell I had a gal who had written with both Johnny Cash and Garth Brooks plus written music business textbooks used in college sit across a table from me and tell me I had no idea what I was doing and if I somehow succeeeded In Nashville I would single handedly lower the standards of all music in Nashville...that was in my first year here.......okay maybe I shouldnt have asked her for a date afterwards but I find women who live on royalty checks so sexy....keep writing what you love and doing what you wanna do in music..........

Tom

Until close to the end, I thought you did well on the singing. I liked the verses. I really don't care for the hook that much nor the chorus. You are asking for a reason, but it's very clear from the beginning his abandonment is reason enough. The last chorus made more sense to me. A reason to believe that things will get better. Perhaps just using the last chorus would help. Even with that, I think you need to develop both the lyrics and melody of the chorus more.

But remember that I DO like the verses and how you sang them.

Hey Boo,

Thanks for taking time to listen and comment, even though you hate me. Someday I will learn how to wink and laugh. For now,

Ricki

Hi Wendy,

Still not convinced knowing or wanting to know why makes it any stronger, but I thought about it some. What about this as the first chorus?

I need a reason why he's gone
Why I didn't see he'd leave eventually
I need a reason why he's gone

The thing about bringing The Bitterroots into it any more, she isn't bitter, she just wants to move on, still sad but hopeful.
Thanks for thinking so much about it.

Ricki

Hi Letha,

Don't ever worry about giving an honest opinion. I will not be offended. I'd rather be told how something may be improved than be given a free pass when there is plenty that should be fixed.
I'm still not sure what you're saying. The words aren't fitting the music in some spots? If so, could you be more specific where you think the lyric could be tightened up? This song is by no means in a forming stage. It's nearly 4 years old, but that certainly doesn't mean it can't be improved. I just can't hear it any other way without some outside influence pointing me in the right direction. That what I'm here for, to learn and get better. I can't do that with just a pat on the back. Throw down girl!

Ricki

Hi Ricki....this is good lyrical "theme"..i think their are some real nice lines in this write,so that in itself shows you are a "thinking writer"..as a demo it is not too bad...but it does require work on the melody..it kinda slips off the radar here and there if you get my drift..but i would put it under the "work in progress" category,,more dynamics in the melody to highlight the ..i need a reason..perhaps a subtle change in key to a minor chord..back to a major chord and so on and so forth..or slip up a key and slip back down..the permutations are endless..but something to "grab the lug" as they say over in these parts..but hey do not under any circumstance get downhearted..iam quite certain their is a real nice song just waiting it's turn to surface..from within you...i wish you all the best...Terry..

Hi Tom,

Why would you apologize for giving your opinion? It's a song and I'm smart enough to know not everyone will love every part of it. This is a very subjective thing that we do. I did not mean to imply that you insulted or hurt me in any way. I was trying to make a joke. I take most opinions seriously but only take to heart the things I feel can help me. Everything else gets filed in the Does Not Apply File, and then I move on. I hope you don't feel that I can't take an honest opinion. Warm fuzzies are nice but honesty will ultimately make me a better writer. As I said elsewhere, that's why I'm here.

Ricki

Hi Jean,

Thanks for taking time to listen and comment. As I've said before, I don't feel that I'm a very strong singer. This song put me at the edge of my limited range so I think I know what you mean by "until close to the end". I keep working at it.
I don't think his leaving has given her a reason to forgive, forget or believe. She's looking for reasons to move on BECAUSE he has left. I thought about just using the last chorus throughout, but wanted to say something more, hoping it would round it out a little more. I'm glad the verses worked for you. Thanks for the suggestions.

Ricki

Hi Terry,

Thanks for taking time to listen to this one and for the suggestions on the music. Guess I'd best get busy and "grab the lug". While I'm not sure how grabbing my husband will help this song, it may inspire me to write a new one! Thanks!

Ricki

Ricki,
I like it very much.I cant really offer an opinion as to what is commercial or not,but I do know what gets to me emotionally and pulls at my heartstrings.This song was one of them.I also think you have a beautiful,unique voice.I first heard you sing a little while back on a collab with Joice.I think it was called "Halfhearted"and your vocals blew me away.This one is right up there too.
Michelle